dayton - what did we learn, or see, good or bad

[ballz2thewall]

durham should start AND get more minutes.

[Kevin]

Love the half court d, today

[Arazorbackguy1]

Stay calm on the road and we can win.

[Atlhogfan1]

A good half of defensive intensity.

Portis' offensive game facing the basket is impressive still.  He also broke his FTA and block drought.

Teams that can't hit 3's will struggle against the Hogs as we can hide some of our defensive deficiencies.

We won with Qualls and Bell not giving us much offensively.  Those two usually exert themselves more at home.

At the half, Dayton had 12 turnovers.  Only 3 in the second half as the Hogs didn't extend as much defensively.  Hogs ended up with 16 turnovers and 3 fewer FGA's.

This margin of victory will look impressive as the season goes on as Dayton will win a lot of games. 

Durham did well and should continue to see minutes as we need him ready to play SEC competition. 

[ballz2thewall]

coach reads jumpball:)

[Otis]

Good win, now let's work on some inbounds plays this week.

[lookawayquick]

Durham distributes the ball well, much better offensive flow when he and Williams on the floor.  Kingsley and Harris play strong, compliment each other.   Bell must rediscover his shot or he must sit.

[Iwastherein1969]

Stay calm on the road and we can win.

honestly, this team needs, at least once a week, a sports psychologist to come in and talk to them...the idea of playing with controlled rage is something they need to learn...Nick Saban does this every year with the Tide football team and they respond...if its good enough for Saban, its good enough for Mike.....that's no knock on these guys, just a little more structure in their THINKING, especially on the road, and this team can and will go far in the tournament...the NCAA, not the NIT for you SA's out there

[Dr. Starcs]

Not opposed to the psychologist route, but some good old fashioned film study wouldn't hurt either.

[Corkscrew Johnson]

Madden was forcing things.  It was pretty clear that our run last year coincided with him stepping up as a PG, instead of an awkward looking 3, since we had no one else to run the offense.   I like the looks of Durham and beard, but I still think we need madden to propel us to a successful SEC season

[Atlhogfan1]

Madden was forcing things.  It was pretty clear that our run last year coincided with him stepping up as a PG, instead of an awkward looking 3, since we had no one else to run the offense.   I like the looks of Durham and beard, but I still think we need madden to propel us to a successful SEC season

We need Madden.  He is a big, strong guard who can hit shots with contact, gets to the line and hits a very high %.  The turnovers are still concerning but we still need to get him the ball against guards in the paint where can go up over them or draw contact.  Plus he can hit spot up shots as well.  He just needs to limit the dribbling and not get himself in trouble over penetrating where he picks up offensive fouls or gets in trouble with the ball.  Against teams who can't shoot well from the perimeter, we can play more zone with him and Qualls at 6-5/6-6. 

[bigred223]

Problem with Madden is he chooses to play right to his weakness. He needs to move without the ball and get in position for kick out jumpers. He can cut back door and draw contact to get to the line. He cannot dribble into traffic and make something happen.

[ricepig]

Problem with Madden is he chooses to play right to his weakness. He needs to move without the ball and get in position for kick out jumpers. He can cut back door and draw contact to get to the line. He cannot dribble into traffic and make something happen.

Ky did that in high school and could dominate, I just don't think he's ever come to realization that it can't happen at this level.

[porkinsons disease]

Halfcourt D was very good. Hoped we realized that you can always play good D even when the offense is a little stale. Nice blue-collar win.

[Atlhogfan1]

Problem with Madden is he chooses to play right to his weakness. He needs to move without the ball and get in position for kick out jumpers. He can cut back door and draw contact to get to the line. He cannot dribble into traffic and make something happen.

The dribble gets him into trouble.  He needs to get better at understanding when and where he has the physical advantage and when he is going into trouble.  But we need players with the ability to get to the line especially on the road.  For all of the frustrating things Harris does, he can get to the line too which is important when you aren't playing well offensively.  Portis is the only consistent offense right now.  Qualls and Bell still disappear. 

[eusebius]

The good:

Portis- got 9 rebs, a good block, looked better on the post.

Durham- good outside shooting in the first half, looked confident with ball.

Beard-toughness, scrappy, makes hustle plays (think Robert Shepherd/ Arlyn Bowers)

Madden- foul shooting 34/38 on the year, getting close to 90%.

Portis passing  out of double teams. Good two man game with Williams

The bad:

Still leave three pt shooters open, will hurt us if a team can shoot well

Up and down intensity, not much defensive pressure in 2nd half.

No Portis and Kingsley together, going to need two rim protectors down the road. Work some high low with them. Like to see the both in mainly for defense and rebounding.

Dayton in the first half. Looked flat, Hogs had good defensive pressure, but Flyers looked uninterested and flat.

The Ugly:

Madden with the ball. He needs to spend a month with Ben Herbert. He loses seemingly every 50/50 ball. On the other hand Beard seems to win every 50/50 ball.

Qualls on defense. As good as he is, there's no reason why he is not one of the best defenders we have ever had. He's got the athleticism of Brandon Dean but he's taller. His role should be the absolute defensive stopper. He's not a three point shooter or an offensive threat first and foremost. That's just extra.

The crowd. Looked like a Presbyterian church gathering. And I love Presbyterians

WPS.         

[eusebius]

coach reads jumpball:)

LOL

[Swinesong1]

We need Madden.  He is a big, strong guard who can hit shots with contact, gets to the line and hits a very high %.  The turnovers are still concerning but we still need to get him the ball against guards in the paint where can go up over them or draw contact.  Plus he can hit spot up shots as well.  He just needs to limit the dribbling and not get himself in trouble over penetrating where he picks up offensive fouls or gets in trouble with the ball.  Against teams who can't shoot well from the perimeter, we can play more zone with him and Qualls at 6-5/6-6.

First I've ever heard or seen "strong" used in describing Ky.

[Atlhogfan1]

Mike deserves some credit today for making changes and trying a different mix starting and first wave of substitutions.  The team got off to a good start and the game was pretty much that way the rest of the way.  Also good recognition, although it was obvious, that the Hogs did not have to extend the defense in the half court in the second half and could win this game rather easily. 

[Atlhogfan1]

First I've ever heard or seen "strong" used in describing Ky.

Comparing him to our other guards and/or wings who play big minutes, he is.  I'm trying to be a little positive about him in all of this negativity.


We had a Miles sighting today which is good.  Could use some defensive contribution from him. 

[Fayettechill14]

The bad:

Still leave three pt shooters open, will hurt us if a team can shoot well

You'd think that, but we've actually played the #2 (Alabama State) and #4 (Iona) ranked teams in the country in three-point percentage.

Also, here's the SEC from beyond the arc:

1. #14 Arkansas
2. #35 Vanderbilt
3. #39 Missouri
4. #125 Texas A&M
5. #164 Alabama
6. #177 Florida
7. #215 Auburn
8. #218 Georgia
9. #228 Mississippi State
10. #263 LSU
11. #271 Ole Miss
12. #282 South Carolina
13. #305 Kentucky
14. #324 Tennessee

Wow. We might be able to survive the SEC slate without our three-point D ever being exposed.

[-Blu]

durham should start AND get more minutes.

Glad we changed the starting lineup.  I figured Durham would start this game, we needed a guy with his skill set in the lineup badly.  And the biggest thing, we were giving Bobby touches the entire game.  We keep doing that we're going to be hard to stop.

[jimmur74]

Disagree on the offense comment about qualls. He can get to the rim as well as anyone. He put us on his back against iona offensively

The good:

Portis- got 9 rebs, a good block, looked better on the post.

Durham- good outside shooting in the first half, looked confident with ball.

Beard-toughness, scrappy, makes hustle plays (think Robert Shepherd/ Arlyn Bowers)

Madden- foul shooting 34/38 on the year, getting close to 90%.

Portis passing  out of double teams. Good two man game with Williams

The bad:

Still leave three pt shooters open, will hurt us if a team can shoot well

Up and down intensity, not much defensive pressure in 2nd half.

No Portis and Kingsley together, going to need two rim protectors down the road. Work some high low with them. Like to see the both in mainly for defense and rebounding.

Dayton in the first half. Looked flat, Hogs had good defensive pressure, but Flyers looked uninterested and flat.

The Ugly:

Madden with the ball. He needs to spend a month with Ben Herbert. He loses seemingly every 50/50 ball. On the other hand Beard seems to win every 50/50 ball.

Qualls on defense. As good as he is, there's no reason why he is not one of the best defenders we have ever had. He's got the athleticism of Brandon Dean but he's taller. His role should be the absolute defensive stopper. He's not a three point shooter or an offensive threat first and foremost. That's just extra.

The crowd. Looked like a Presbyterian church gathering. And I love Presbyterians

WPS.         
[/quote

The good:

Portis- got 9 rebs, a good block, looked better on the post.

Durham- good outside shooting in the first half, looked confident with ball.

Beard-toughness, scrappy, makes hustle plays (think Robert Shepherd/ Arlyn Bowers)

Madden- foul shooting 34/38 on the year, getting close to 90%.

Portis passing  out of double teams. Good two man game with Williams

The bad:

Still leave three pt shooters open, will hurt us if a team can shoot well

Up and down intensity, not much defensive pressure in 2nd half.

No Portis and Kingsley together, going to need two rim protectors down the road. Work some high low with them. Like to see the both in mainly for defense and rebounding.

Dayton in the first half. Looked flat, Hogs had good defensive pressure, but Flyers looked uninterested and flat.

The Ugly:

Madden with the ball. He needs to spend a month with Ben Herbert. He loses seemingly every 50/50 ball. On the other hand Beard seems to win every 50/50 ball.

Qualls on defense. As good as he is, there's no reason why he is not one of the best defenders we have ever had. He's got the athleticism of Brandon Dean but he's taller. His role should be the absolute defensive stopper. He's not a three point shooter or an offensive threat first and foremost. That's just extra.

The crowd. Looked like a Presbyterian church gathering. And I love Presbyterians

WPS.         

[eusebius]

You'd think that, but we've actually played the #2 (Alabama State) and #4 (Iona) ranked teams in the country in three-point percentage.

Also, here's the SEC from beyond the arc:

1. #14 Arkansas
2. #35 Vanderbilt
3. #39 Missouri
4. #125 Texas A&M
5. #164 Alabama
6. #177 Florida
7. #215 Auburn
8. #218 Georgia
9. #228 Mississippi State
10. #263 LSU
11. #271 Ole Miss
12. #282 South Carolina
13. #305 Kentucky
14. #324 Tennessee

Wow. We might be able to survive the SEC slate without our three-point D ever being exposed.

That's some bad shooting by those SEC teams

[eusebius]

Disagree on the offense comment about qualls. He can get to the rim as well as anyone. He put us on his back against iona offensively

Sure, Qualls can get his points, but I don't think that's his bread and butter, esp not long term.  He's an at the rim finisher, but the midrange game and the consistency through the whole season from three would be my questions. Defensively, I would put him on the best perimeter player that they have.   

[PonderinHog]

Comparing him to our other guards and/or wings who play big minutes, he is.  I'm trying to be a little positive about him in all of this negativity.


We had a Miles sighting today which is good.  Could use some defensive contribution from him.

Miles had 1 minute, which is infinitely more than he had been getting.  Kingsley had 11 minutes.

[bigred223]

Miles had 1 minute, which is infinitely more than he had been getting.  Kingsley had 11 minutes.

Ya Kingsley needs more like 18-20 a game. Miles may have a hard time finding the floor this year.

[Danny J]

durham should start AND get more minutes.

Yes and whatever CMA said to him about being more aggressive offensively worked. He made 3 - 3's and that is what we need. The starting lineup was very effective.

[Atlhogfan1]

Miles had 1 minute, which is infinitely more than he had been getting.  Kingsley had 11 minutes.

Biggus said this week that Miles has had a back problem.  Good to see him back on the court if only briefly.  He may be needed especially on the defensive end at some point in SEC play. 

[PonderinHog]

Biggus said this week that Miles has had a back problem.  Good to see him back on the court if only briefly.  He may be needed especially on the defensive end at some point in SEC play.

Yeah, I read that he was hurt, but I didn't catch what his injury was.  Hopefully, he gets healthy and get some time in.  I missed the game today and just watched the highlites.  Kingsley's last stride on that coast-to-coast play looked to be about ten feet.  Dayum!

[Atlhogfan1]

That's some bad shooting by those SEC teams

3rd best Mizzou is 1-12 from 3 so far at home vs Xavier and they are getting embarrassed. 

1-16 for the game. 

[eusebius]

3rd best Mizzou is 1-12 from 3 so far at home vs Xavier and they are getting embarrassed.

Jerry West and Rick Barry are somewhere crying. 

[Hogz87]

Ky did that in high school and could dominate, I just don't think he's ever come to realization that it can't happen at this level.

He can do it at this level against the right defender/matchup if he wisely picks his spots.  But yeah, he tries to force that type of action a little too much and it turns into a terrible shot or a turnover. 

[Pig Worshipper]

Durham looked good. Qualls tends to disappear at times. Portis is playing so well this year I'm afraid he's NBA-bound at the end of the season.

If Durham and Beard continue to progress and Madden regains his mojo, we could really surprise people come tournament time.

[secfan30]

durham should start AND get more minutes.

Today was his best game

[secfan30]

The good:

Portis- got 9 rebs, a good block, looked better on the post.

Durham- good outside shooting in the first half, looked confident with ball.

Beard-toughness, scrappy, makes hustle plays (think Robert Shepherd/ Arlyn Bowers)

Madden- foul shooting 34/38 on the year, getting close to 90%.

Portis passing  out of double teams. Good two man game with Williams

The bad:

Still leave three pt shooters open, will hurt us if a team can shoot well

Up and down intensity, not much defensive pressure in 2nd half.

No Portis and Kingsley together, going to need two rim protectors down the road. Work some high low with them. Like to see the both in mainly for defense and rebounding.

Dayton in the first half. Looked flat, Hogs had good defensive pressure, but Flyers looked uninterested and flat.

The Ugly:

Madden with the ball. He needs to spend a month with Ben Herbert. He loses seemingly every 50/50 ball. On the other hand Beard seems to win every 50/50 ball.

Qualls on defense. As good as he is, there's no reason why he is not one of the best defenders we have ever had. He's got the athleticism of Brandon Dean but he's taller. His role should be the absolute defensive stopper. He's not a three point shooter or an offensive threat first and foremost. That's just extra.

The crowd. Looked like a Presbyterian church gathering. And I love Presbyterians

WPS.         

More of an Assembly of God guy myself. Loud and moving around a ton is my style.   

Good recap

[HognitiveDissonance]

I also learned that we are still pretty good at hone and bad on the road.

Right. We learned nothing today. Zilch.
We've known forever, through the last five coaches, that we're very tough at home. Therefore, nothing learned today.
I pay almost no attention to home games. Heck, I would give us a 50/50 shot to beat even Kentucky playing at home. Seriously.
I have virtually no confidence playing on the road. Doesn't matter the opponent.

[PonderinHog]

Right. We learned nothing today. Zilch.
We've known forever, through the last five coaches, that we're very tough at home. Therefore, nothing learned today.
I pay almost no attention to home games. Heck, I would give us a 50/50 shot to beat even Kentucky playing at home. Seriously.
I have virtually no confidence playing on the road. Doesn't matter the opponent.

Yeah, I noticed.

[Smithian]

Good win over a good team.

Home wins are still wins.

[cityhog]

Right. We learned nothing today. Zilch.
We've known forever, through the last five coaches, that we're very tough at home. Therefore, nothing learned today.
I pay almost no attention to home games. Heck, I would give us a 50/50 shot to beat even Kentucky playing at home. Seriously.
I have virtually no confidence playing on the road. Doesn't matter the opponent.

This. Nothing learned. Win a meaningful game on the road against a team whose best player isn't on the bench, and then, maybe, we will have changed the song. Until then it's same song 10th verse.

[PonderinHog]

This. Nothing learned. Win a meaningful game on the road against a team whose best player isn't on the bench, and then, maybe, we will have changed the song. Until then it's same song 10th verse.

So, what's your win prediction this year?

[cityhog]

So, what's your win prediction this year?

i don't know. Somewhere around 20-21 wins. 10-8 in conference. Seriously, until they prove they prove they can beat some of these horrible SEC teams on the road it's hard to predict any higher for them. Serious question though, who the frank do we have to frank to start our SEC season at home for once?

[Hog are ya]

We hopefully learned that this offense needs to go through Bobby Portis whenever he is on the floor.  He needs to continue to get more shots.  He can easily average 20 a game and we will be a better team if he does.  Mainly because he is also a willing and effective passer.

Side note on Portis....   Watch when he inbounds the ball after a made basket by the opposition.  Almost EVERY time it is a violation that is not being called.  He does not get a foot set out of bounds before he gives the outlet.  We need to correct this now before we get in one of those tight games and a ref calls it, costing us a game!  If you don't believe me, watch the replay..... 

[porkulus]

We hopefully learned that this offense needs to go through Bobby Portis whenever he is on the floor.  He needs to continue to get more shots.  He can easily average 20 a game and we will be a better team if he does.  Mainly because he is also a willing and effective passer.

Side note on Portis....   Watch when he inbounds the ball after a made basket by the opposition.  Almost EVERY time it is a violation that is not being called.  He does not get a foot set out of bounds before he gives the outlet.  We need to correct this now before we get in one of those tight games and a ref calls it, costing us a game!  If you don't believe me, watch the replay.....

I noticed him not getting set out of bounds on the inbounds pass several times yesterday.  Very easy to fix.  Just hope someone points it out to him before it costs us in a close game.

[lefty08]

I noticed the Dayton players doing the same thing, it's not called anymore like it used to be. Its not something to worry over

[The_Iceman]

Side note on Portis....   Watch when he inbounds the ball after a made basket by the opposition.  Almost EVERY time it is a violation that is not being called.  He does not get a foot set out of bounds before he gives the outlet.  We need to correct this now before we get in one of those tight games and a ref calls it, costing us a game!  If you don't believe me, watch the replay..... 

My brother and I have officially called this the "Larry Satchel school of Inbounding".

[secfan30]

I noticed him not getting set out of bounds on the inbounds pass several times yesterday.  Very easy to fix.  Just hope someone points it out to him before it costs us in a close game.

Watching a lot of games and seeing this has me guessing the rule has changed. It's not called like it used to be

[mhuff]

On short time...... Look at the first half..... The ball went inside and we wore them out..... Second half we did not go inside as much and they out scored us.... Duh.... I wonder if there might be a lesson there. I loved Kingsley taking it coast to coast. But then he thought he was a PG and got called for a charge. Next year he will be hammering it home. He just has to learn that this is not bowling. The idea is not to knock down the pins on the way to the basket but to run the gauntlet and slam it home.

The ball went to the low post and Harris gave back side help and took the ball away from the defender. Wow I wonder if we might learn from that. I also want to commend Harris for taking a charge. Early in the season Bell and Beard were good at doing that. Now there's a better chance of seeing Santa's sleigh in the sky than someone getting in front of a dribbler..... except for Babb.... you don't make him look bad nor Watkins most of the time. The rest of the guards are saving themselves for offense. Beard plays well....especially on the press.

MA did a lot of good things.... Called a time out , went back with the ball inside, and bounce passed down low for a wide open basket.... That's good BB.

Defensively, you might think that I am being too hard ,but our guard defense was not good at all. Qualls can't stay with his man.... except one block...and played bullfighter defense and said y'all come back now. When Madden was in there in the second half things went really sour. He does a good job of FT shooting...... But , you can't let him dribble..... He wants to dribble through a wall.... not too smart.

[jcam61]

We hopefully learned that this offense needs to go through Bobby Portis whenever he is on the floor.  He needs to continue to get more shots.  He can easily average 20 a game and we will be a better team if he does.  Mainly because he is also a willing and effective passer.

Side note on Portis....   Watch when he inbounds the ball after a made basket by the opposition.  Almost EVERY time it is a violation that is not being called.  He does not get a foot set out of bounds before he gives the outlet.  We need to correct this now before we get in one of those tight games and a ref calls it, costing us a game!  If you don't believe me, watch the replay..... 

Is this a violation or do they just make him go back and inbound the ball?  I mean technically he never steps out of bounds so is it just classified as a violation because of intent?

[ricepig]

The crowd should tell Jeff long that 25 dollars a ticket for a basketball game is too much. We had a 7-1 elite eight team in the house on a Saturday afternoon, and there were 11 thousand empty seats.

Over 15,000+ tickets sold, looks like about 4000 decided just to not show up, or give them away.