Do you think Arkansas would have beaten Alabama in 1964 and Mich St in 1965?

[Sweet Feet]

Under BCS terms (#1 vs #2 title game), Arkansas would have played against Alabama in 1964, and Michigan St in 65. Do you think they would have pulled off either of those games to claim an outright title?

[razored]

Absolutely positively YES

[Huds_HawgTide]

Ummm yes

[JONAS]

Yes if you compare scores.  Arkansas beat Texas 14-13 in Austin.  Texas beat Alabama 21-17 in the Orange Bowl.

[SamBuckhart]

Has anyone worked a computer simulation of these. Not that I would accept the outcome if we lost.

[jgphillips3]

Yes.  Those two years and 1977's team could have beaten the other top team.

[Wild Bill Hog]

No doubt about it.

[code red]

64 and 65? Dang.  Football season can't get here quick enough.

[hogcard1964]

Yes.  Those two years and 1977's team could have beaten the other top team.

The 2010 and 2011 teams were also fantastic.

[12247]

We had very good mentally capable teams in 64 and 65.  My memory is that our QB got hurt or we would have kept that 22 games winning streak going against LSU in the Cotton Bowl that year.  We could have but didn't, have the NC 2 years running.

[oldhog63]

Talked to someone on the 65 team. Said the night before the cotton bowl, that the team (don't know how many) got so drunk they tried to get on the LSU bus back to the hotel. Sounds like they played the game hung over.

[staffhog]

First, I'd say less than 5% of Hogvillians have any idea how tough the old SWC was in those days.  Second, just like today, we went undefeated.  Third, we played Bama a hell of a game in the 1962 Sugar Bowl and the 1964 D was much tougher, I mean downright mean.

Who knows why certain teams got beat that year, maybe they couldn't keep their mojo going until the bowl game, maybe they just didn't have the depth or maybe they just faced a superior team.  You can chisel away at all the reasons why th Razorbacks didn't do so and so but convince me that we didn't go undefeated and after that season AP (the "accepted" poll) changed their approach to selection the next year and by 1968 all the majors had this MO. 

The 1965 team was a great team, as well, but welost the Ronnies - Ronnie Caveness and Ronnie Mac Smith at linebacker and the secondary wasn't as strong as the "64 version.

So yeah, the 64 team could whip anybody that lined up against them

[TUSKtimes]

Still, can't believe we put up with a beauty contest for over a hundred years. To me, AP and UPI will just have to be the yardstick as ugly as that was at times. As far as great teams that never got to prove it on the field, who knows, I still can't believe we put up with that crapfest for over a century.

[orvillesghost]

No idea, I was too young, no memories of those teams.

But I would wager a goodly amount that the 64 and 65 Hog teams and the 64 Alabama and 65 MSU teams would get shellacked by even a mid level SEC school of today.

[staffhog]

Anything that happened yesterday is irrelevant, right??

[orvillesghost]

no, bigger faster and stronger athletes...plus in the case of all but MSU, integration...

[DeltaBoy]

Under BCS terms (#1 vs #2 title game), Arkansas would have played against Alabama in 1964, and Michigan St in 65. Do you think they would have pulled off either of those games to claim an outright title?

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jim Harris]

Talked to someone on the 65 team. Said the night before the cotton bowl, that the team (don't know how many) got so drunk they tried to get on the LSU bus back to the hotel. Sounds like they played the game hung over.

Before they went to Dallas to prepare for the game, they spent several days at South Padre Island. They don't travel to bowl games the way they used to!

[elksnort]

Under BCS terms (#1 vs #2 title game), Arkansas would have played against Alabama in 1964, and Michigan St in 65. Do you think they would have pulled off either of those games to claim an outright title?

How many on this board could even answer this? Myself, I have been a hog fan since the 1st grade, fall of 1972.

[ADavisTheGOAT]

The 2010 and 2011 teams were also fantastic.

2010 team would have been in the BCS title game if it weren't for Auburn's ref$.

[staffhog]

no, bigger faster and stronger athletes...plus in the case of all but MSU, integration...

I will always say that if we had a coach that could play with the x's and o's the way Broyles did with his peers and could recruit like Broyles did with his peers, yeah, we could still be right up there with the big boys.

[hawgtusky22]

Saw us in top three not long  ago.  Got thumped by 1 & 2.  This is now.  Still getting thumped and not ranked.  Change or same ole same.ole

[LZH]

Before they went to Dallas to prepare for the game, they spent several days at South Padre Island. They don't travel to bowl games the way they used to!

Are players still allowed to drive to bowl games on their own if they want to?

[Torqued pork]

64 and 65? Dang.  Football season can't get here quick enough.

No idea, I was too young, no memories of those teams.

But I would wager a goodly amount that the 64 and 65 Hog teams and the 64 Alabama and 65 MSU teams would get shellacked by even a mid level SEC school of today.

64 and 65? Dang.  Football season can't get here quick enough.

Why? Are you really expecting anything from the 2017 season will be remembered and talked about decades from now?

[KennyForAD]

 

Still, can't believe we put up with a beauty contest for over a hundred years. To me, AP and UPI will just have to be the yardstick as ugly as that was at times. As far as great teams that never got to prove it on the field, who knows, I still can't believe we put up with that crapfest for over a century.

Right.  In the entire history of major college football, there are exactly three schools who have won a National Championship:  Clemson, Bama, and OSU.  The days of arguing over whether a team should have been chosen in an opinion poll and given a fake trophy are over ..  and it is as pointless and worthless today as arguing over it was fifty years ago.

[KennyForAD]

No idea, I was too young, no memories of those teams.

But I would wager a goodly amount that the 64 and 65 Hog teams and the 64 Alabama and 65 MSU teams would get shellacked by even a mid level SEC school of today.

It would be like a Vietnam era fighter jet going up against the F-22.    Jerry Jones and Jimmy Johnson were linemen.   What did they weigh, 180, 190 pounds?    If that team played our team today, the entire 1964 offensive line would be knocked out of the game on the first play.

[staffhog]

One thing that will always remain: The Arkansas Razorbacks of 1964 went UNDEFEATED that year.  They were the only team to do so.  Ever since there was a poll only a couple of times were more than one undefeated team in the major or D-1 conferences.  This feat is a tremendous achievement and deserves all the honor that can be bestowed.

The Razorbacks have come close a few times since but undefeated is a long way from 10 - 1 or 9 -2.  You can harp on integration or the size  and speed of modern players or the style of the offences all you want but the 1964 Hogs won it all. 

Until we do oitagain no one can knock them off their throne, the are kingsof the Razorback hill.

[lasthog]

Nm

[jfred59]

Nm

Being that the Cotton Bowl was in Dallas that year I find that hard to believe

[rtr]

To answer the OP's question:  Hell Yes.

[Bacons Rebellion]

Arkansas / Alabama would pretty much be a toss-up. As was Arkansas vs. Texas and Texas vs. Alabama that year.

We beat Texas 14-13 in 1964 when the coaches saw a Texas substitution and called a pass defense and our defensive end rushed the Texas quarterback into a bad pass and a missed two point conversion that would have won the game for them.

Texas beat Alabama 21-17 by stopping Alabama with a goal line stand late in the fourth quarter, when Tommy Nobis stopped Joe Namath on a 4th and inches quarterback sneak. However, Alabama only had the chance because of a late Texas fumble. Namath had injured his knee earlier in the season and didn't start the game. He was limited, although effective.

Alabama's offense was perhaps slightly better than Arkansas' but Arkansas defense was better, we threw 5 straight shutouts and held Nebraska (#7 offense in the country) to 7 points. Razorbacks had a solid kicking also. The Arkansas offense was very good if not flashy. We had a future AFL Rookie of the Year at tailback and a future NFL'er as our leading receiver.

The game probably goes on turnovers, but if those go even, Arkansas has a slight edge based on defense against a gimpy Alabama offense.

[Snorts]

Our D in 64 was an all time great, shutting out our last 5 league opponents, then giving up a lonely TD to Nebraska in the Cotton Bowl.

Hatfield led the country in punt returns, including probably the single greatest play in Razorback history, a punt return for a TD vs Texass, the margin of victory.

We could play with anyone, and did.

[snoblind]

Yes.  Why are people arguing about those teams playing today's teams?

[staffhog]

There are "supposed to be" Razorback fans, or maybe they are just bama trolls, who like to take a slap at our Champions.  This type of thread always rattles the chains and there are those who keep trying to dilute or marginalize the greatest achievement in Hog history. 

Has Elvis really left the building?? not really.

[1highhog]

Under BCS terms (#1 vs #2 title game), Arkansas would have played against Alabama in 1964, and Michigan St in 65. Do you think they would have pulled off either of those games to claim an outright title?

Without a doubt, YES!  The Hogs were dominate on Defense as good as any Bama teams of today according to the eras played. 

[Locutus_of_Boar]

Arkansas / Alabama would pretty much be a toss-up. As was Arkansas vs. Texas and Texas vs. Alabama that year.

We beat Texas 14-13 in 1964 when the coaches saw a Texas substitution and called a pass defense and our defensive end rushed the Texas quarterback into a bad pass and a missed two point conversion that would have won the game for them.

Texas beat Alabama 21-17 by stopping Alabama with a goal line stand late in the fourth quarter, when Tommy Nobis stopped Joe Namath on a 4th and inches quarterback sneak. However, Alabama only had the chance because of a late Texas fumble. Namath had injured his knee earlier in the season and didn't start the game. He was limited, although effective.

Alabama's offense was perhaps slightly better than Arkansas' but Arkansas defense was better, we threw 5 straight shutouts and held Nebraska (#7 offense in the country) to 7 points. Razorbacks had a solid kicking also. The Arkansas offense was very good if not flashy. We had a future AFL Rookie of the Year at tailback and a future NFL'er as our leading receiver.

The game probably goes on turnovers, but if those go even, Arkansas has a slight edge based on defense against a gimpy Alabama offense.

I agree.  Also it's largely forgotten now but Frank's 1961 team played Bear's first NC team to 10-3 in the Sugar Bowl.  Arkansas' 64 team was better and that defense would have given Namath fits.  Arkansas-Alabama NYD 1965 would have been a toss up in either the Cotton, Sugar, or Orange Bowls. 

[WizardofhOgZ]

First, I'd say less than 5% of Hogvillians have any idea how tough the old SWC was in those days.  Second, just like today, we went undefeated.  Third, we played Bama a hell of a game in the 1962 Sugar Bowl and the 1964 D was much tougher, I mean downright mean.

Who knows why certain teams got beat that year, maybe they couldn't keep their mojo going until the bowl game, maybe they just didn't have the depth or maybe they just faced a superior team.  You can chisel away at all the reasons why th Razorbacks didn't do so and so but convince me that we didn't go undefeated and after that season AP (the "accepted" poll) changed their approach to selection the next year and by 1968 all the majors had this MO. 

The 1965 team was a great team, as well, but welost the Ronnies - Ronnie Caveness and Ronnie Mac Smith at linebacker and the secondary wasn't as strong as the "64 version.

So yeah, the 64 team could whip anybody that lined up against them

True, the 1964 defense was better - if only slightly.  We still had Jim Williams and Loyd Phillips (winner of the Outland Trophy) at DT, Maftine Bercher (who also was an All America punt returner during his U or A career, and Tommy Trantham on defense).  And while people properly are proud of the 1964 record of shutting out the final 5 regular season opponents and allowing less points than anyone in the nation, they forget that the 1965 team actually led the nation in scoring OFFENSE.

Those were two hellacious teams, anyway you slice it.  It's a crime that some ignorant people don't give the 1964 their righteous place as the consensus National Champion of 1964, and also that Jon Brittenum got hurt early in the LSU game.  Had he been uninjured, there is no doubt in my mind we score enough points to beat LSU and win our second consecutive National title.