Duke

[jbcarol]

Duke lands commitment from Syracuse basketball transfer Maliq Brown

by: Alex Weber
•

Home runs win all the headlines when it comes to the transfer portal, but there's no problem with hitting a double like Duke did with Brown, a terrific defender with high upside and two years still to play.

Brown is coming off a sophomore season where he averaged 9.5 points and 7.2 rebounds, also nabbing 2.2 steals per game. He emerged as a starter in conference play and was third on the team playing just over 33 minutes a night in 20 ACC games.

[East TN HAWG]

For the most part. I'm guessing pre NIL if you played for Duke/kentucky or any of the blue bloods you were getting paid well, and it was under the table so no taxes 😂

I think this is true.  Also, pre NIL it was harder to find out what people were willing to pay.  Now it's out in the open for the most part. 

[SeldomHere]

The naïveté going on in this thread....

And I was being nice. I don't think they would enjoy the back and forth fun we have. LOL

[bphi11ips]

The naïveté going on in this thread....

Don't confuse naivete with principle. 

Regardless of what you believe, there was no grand scheme to exploit student athletes by creating some sort of faux "amateur" system to line the pockets of universities, coaches, and television networks.  In fact, it was the distinction between amateur college sports and professional sports that created the environment you have grown up with.  The NCAA relied on that distinction in Alston and lost - not because the distinction is not real - but because, as a legal matter, the Supreme Court said the NCAA is without the power to fix the cost of labor in college sports by defining the product as amateur athletics.  That's sound legal reasoning.  What it means to the future of revenue college sports is as yet unclear.

"When the Persian military officer Tigranes heard that the prize was not money but a crown [of olive], he could not hold his peace, but cried, 'Good heavens, Mardonius, what kind of men are these that you have pitted us against? It is not for money they contend but for glory of achievement!'" 

Herodotus, Histories , 8.26.3

Tigranes was commenting on ancient Greek Olympians.  More is at this link:

https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/Olympics/comp.html

What has come to be known as Western Culture is based largely on ancient Greek philosophy, only because an unlikely young general, Alexander, conquered the Mediterranean region and spread Greek philosophy in what became Europe.  The Romans spread it to Britain.  When Britain conquered North America, British colonists established universities like Harvard, William & Mary, and Yale, which, like Oxford before it in England, were grounded in curricula based on the ancient Greek works.  And education continued that way into the 20th century.  A classic education is still available, but it may be naive to think that ancient principles apply to modern society. 

Modern society might be more Machiavellian than ancient Greek philosophy.  donnie and Machiavelli might have gotten along well:

"In this world, where the strong prey upon the weak, and the cunning manipulate the naive, it is imperative that you become the master of your own thoughts. Allow yourself to explore the darkest corners of your mind, for it is in these shadows that the seeds of power are sown. Visualize the life you desire, unfettered by moral constraints or social expectations, and embrace the ruthless pursuit of your ambitions."

Kevin L. Michel, Machiavellian Dreams: A Manual

Some might suggest that the principles this country was founded upon were those of chauvanistic, white, European males borrowed from white, chauvanistic ancient male Greeks.  Alexander himself was no doubt Machiavellian.  But then there are these:

"Because of lack of moral principle, human life becomes worthless. Moral principle, truthfulness, is a key factor. If we lose that then there is no future"

Dalai Lama

"To see what is right and not to do it is want of courage, or of principle."

Confucius

"A house must be built on solid foundations if it is to last. The same principle applies to man, otherwise he too will sink back into the soft ground and becomes swallowed up by the world of illusion."

Sai Baba

Priciples, like morals, are largely universal and result from millenia of human experience.  donnie might better identify with this quote from Mark Twain:

"Prosperity is the best protector of principle."

Toungue in cheek maybe, but sort of encapsulates capitalism, doesn't it?  Guarding principles does require prosperity, right?  Similar to building a college basketball roster in the NIL era. 

This debate is interesting at a broader level, but it really boils down to what we value as a society.  Societal values change over time and with circumstances.  American values during WWII were different than Gordon Gekko's values.  They had to be. 

Maybe donnie's generation won't care whether players with Arkansas on their jerseys actually go to school there or care about it one way or another.  Maybe they won't care if they need a roster to know the names of players on the court.  For now, they don't have the money to buy players.  Those of a certain generation do have it, and some, like Jerry Jones and John Tyson, are willing to foot the bill because they can afford it and want Arkansas to win.  John didn't even go to Arkansas.  He graduated from SMU.  But he's from Springdale.  Something tells me for those guys, what they have given is more about pride than ego.  It's not about control as much as winning, and they can afford it.  Give more than you take is not a bad principle to live by. 

Winning makes a lot of people happy.  Frank Broyles believed win and they will come.  Lose and they will stay away in droves.  See Chad Morris.

If it's naive to think that college athletes should play for the glory winning brings to themselves and their schools, throw me in with the ancient Greeks.  And build statues in memory of schools like Auburn with descriptions of their many documented transgressions. 

 

[donnie]

Lotta nice words when you could've just said "yep, I am and have been naive."

"Give more than you take" when you're talking about literal billionaires is LOL.

It's typically better to be succinct.

[bphi11ips]

Lotta nice words when you could've just said "yep, I am and have been naive."

It's typically better to be succinct.

How is this - naivete is my strength.

Who do you admire most - Dalai Lama or Gordon Gekko?

[donnie]

How is this - naivete is my strength.

Who do you admire most - Dalai Lama or Gordon Gekko?

I don't find myself admiring fictional characters. Because they aren't real.

I don't admire the people Gekko is based on in the slightest.

Immense leaps in logic going on here. You partake in the magic dragon a little too much today?

[bphi11ips]

Lotta nice words when you could've just said "yep, I am and have been naive."

"Give more than you take" when you're talking about literal billionaires is LOL.

It's typically better to be succinct.

If you measure everything in Benjis, it's hard to give more than you take if you're Jerry Jones or John Tyson.  If you measure giving by how many others you make happy - even if it's something as superficial as watching your favorite team win games - those guys have given more than they've taken. 

The ruling class in Northwest Arkansas have done much to make Arkansss a better place to live. 

[bphi11ips]

I don't find myself admiring fictional characters. Because they aren't real.

I don't admire the people Gekko is based on in the slightest.

Immense leaps in logic going on here. You partake in the magic dragon a little too much today?

Just passing time cogitating on the vanity of youth.

[Kris P. Bacon]

They were absolutely getting fleeced.

Well technically they still are... they get no share of the athletic revenue outside of scholarships etc...

No cut of that next huge media deal

[donnie]

Well technically they still are... they get no share of the athletic revenue outside of scholarships etc...

No cut of that next huge media deal

Yep. Absolutely.

Will be interesting to see how it all
unfolds over the next decade.

[Pig Worshipper]

The blood tone of the program, banners, tradition, facilities, and all the things that mattered before 2020 no longer apply to 90 percent of the athletes.

A program like Mizzou can be terrible but sign an incredible transfer and freshman class because NIL trumps all other measurables. Adapt or die, and the old mega-programs still want the front of the jersey to matter when it generally does not.
 

Absolutely right.
Before, these guys went to blue bloods to help them get to the NBA to make money.
Now, they just go make money then go to the NBA.

[The real Hogules]

How is this - naivete is my strength.

Who do you admire most - Dalai Lama or Gordon Gekko?

I prefer the lizard!

[joeyself]

While I agree, it is not going backward.

The moment the NCAA attempts to put a kibosh to any of it, the SEC and BIG will bolt.

To survive, Arkansas must embrace it or die on the vine.

My wife and I were talking about this tonight.  I said when the NIL payments were authorized, the NCAA as we knew it that day would be gone in five years. It existed to penalize for payments to players--now legal--and academic fraud. But with the one-and-done in college basketball, all a guy has to do it pass the basket weaving courses one semester and he's gone (I know baseball and football currently--CURRENTLY--don't have the one-and-done, but that's only a matter of time).
 

It may not be THAT quick--I didn't consider the TV contracts--but one day, I expect with the Big Howmanyever or the SEC to announce they are leaving the NCAA, and two days later, the one that didn't announce first to follow suit.   The NCAA will be crippled and have to find some other reason to exist. 

I'm not saying it is a good or a bad thing--I've not thought it all the way through.  But I think it's not going to last much longer.

JcS