Welcome to Hogville!      Do Not Sell My Personal Information

The Identity Theft of Mitch Mustain

Started by Sed76, June 09, 2017, 11:55:28 am

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Hawgphish

I think it speaks volumes about Nutt that he remains out of coaching.

woodhog14

Quote from: Hawgphish on June 11, 2017, 07:39:27 pm
I think it speaks volumes about Nutt that he remains out of coaching.

Yep! Totally agree!

 

HognotinMemphis

Quote from: bphi11ips on June 11, 2017, 04:58:21 pm
He was for a true freshman SEC QB.  Who knows what he would have done with at least two more years under the kind of circumstances his hype warranted?  He could have gone anywhere and should have.  Mustain's instincts told him not to play for The Dork, but his equally hyped high school coach manipulated Mustain into going to Arkansas to get into college coaching.  Then The Dork and his Posse publicly humiliated him and Malzahn discarded him. 

You can't make this kind of stuff up, and it all happened to an 18-year-old kid.  It's hard to imagine anyone thriving under the circumstances Mustain faced.  Imagine, however, what he could have done if Nutt had been the coach he, Cleveland and Williams deserved.  Makes you sick, doesn't it?

One player in the saga who never gets any share of the blame is Kurt Voigt.  He may have been a journalist with access, and Mustain may have had fair warning, but there was no public interest at stake when Voigt wrote that Mustain called Nutt a dork.  Everyone agrees Nutt was acting like a dork when he got caught in the "I called that play, brutha" lie, but Voigt didn't need to quote a naive teenager making an excited utterance.  Voigt knew he was sitting on dynamite, and he used it to sell books without regard to the shitstorm he would create.  Without "Year of the Dog" would there have been the South Carolina benching, Code Red, or "Dear Mr. Interception King"?

Again, you can't make this stuff up.  That's why there's a documentary.
Does make me sick. Very sad.
I don't want you to agree with me because you're weak. I want you to agree with me because you know I'm right.
______________________
President Obama promised to begin to slow the rise of the oceans and to heal the planet. My promise is to help you and your family." - Mitt Romney

DeltaBoy

Mitch M-16 Mustain is undeniable Proof at left to his own devices that HDN is the QB Killar.
If the South should lose, it means that the history of the heroic struggle will be written by the enemy, that our youth will be trained by Northern school teachers, will be impressed by all of the influences of history and education to regard our gallant dead as traitors and our maimed veterans as fit subjects for derision.
-- Major General Patrick Cleburne
The Confederacy had no better soldiers
than the Arkansans--fearless, brave, and oftentimes courageous beyond
prudence. Dickart History of Kershaws Brigade.

12247

Nutt was a piece of crap long before Gus or Mitch came to the U0fA and it isn't likely that he has changed since.  Mitch was doomed if he stayed here and as it proved out, doomed it he transferred to USC.  I suggest if he had gone to Tulsa as Gus did, he would be playing in the NFL today.  I believe we witnessed the total ruination of a quality football player.  The only part Mitch played in the scheme other than being the fall Guy was deciding to go to USC.  Had he gone to at least 20 other schools, he would have played and progressed, in my opinion.

Mitch isn't the only player Nutt screwed over, just maybe the most famous.

hawganatic

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on June 11, 2017, 05:57:00 pm
Don't place the blame on Mustain.

You're very short-sided (and wasted a lot of time responding) if you read my post and thought I was putting the blame on Mustain.  He was the kid in the situation around adults acting very immature.  You also wasted a lot of time typing out details that have been gone over and re-hashed ad nauseam.  Nothing new in what you posted.

It's not placing blame stating the obvious fact that Arkansas wasn't the best place for him.  It's also common sense stating that an athlete should play for a head coach that he/she respects and looks up too.  That obviously wasn't the case with Mustain and Nutt.

hawganatic

Quote from: Mike Irwin on June 11, 2017, 06:39:26 pm
You don't have a clue.

Mitch was dead serious when he committed to Arkansas. When practices were over at SHS many times he would race over to the U of A to catch the last hour or so of the Hogs' workout. He came to all the home games and helped lobby the recruits at those games.

He decommitted for one reason only. Nutt fired Roy Wittke, who Mitch thought was going to be his quarterbacks coach, and hired Gus Malzahn. Mitch had no intention of having Malzahn as his high school and college coach. He also was not interested in running the hurry up no huddle offense that Malzahn had installed at Shiloh Christian and SHS. Mitch had been told by Wittke that Arkansas
was going to a pro-style offense which Mitch preferred. He recommitted when Nutt announced that Malzahn would coach the receivers not the quarterbacks at Arkansas.

As for the "dork" comment, how long since you were in high school? High school kids say off the wall stuff all the time. In fact Mustain's mom told Malzahn he was nuts if he turned a sportswriter loose on those players for the proposes of writing a book. So Mitch is in his room listening to the Ole Miss game on the radio. Arkansas wins it's first SEC game of the season. Nutt starts going Howard Dean crazy when Chuck Barrett interviews him in the locker-room after the game. Mitch hears that, laughs and says, "What a dork."

It didn't mean squat. If he really thought Nutt was a dork he would have gone to any of about 15 other schools that would have taken him in a heartbeat.

And I respect that.  You know a lot more about the situation and what happened than I do. 

But wasn't the full quote, and please correct me if I'm wrong,  something like what a dork followed by Arkansas would have a better chance of getting me if Nutt wasn't there?

bphi11ips

Quote from: Mike Irwin on June 11, 2017, 06:39:26 pm
Mustain's mom told Malzahn he was nuts if he turned a sportswriter loose on those players for the proposes of writing a book.

There was a very simple solution on the front end had Mitch's mom or Gus thought about it.  Of course I know nothing about the agreement between Voigt and/or his publisher (if he had one at the time he developed and wrote the book) and the subjects quoted and depicted the book.  I assume there was some sort of written agreement or at least correspondence between them.  Ordinarily, an author/publisher would get a release from every individual on the front end before engaging in the type of development Voigt conducted.

If there was a release for Mitch Mustain, the author would almost certainly have required a signature from his guardian because he was a minor at the time Voigt began development.  His mother could have insisted on approval rights in the release.  That may have been a deal breaker for Voigt, but approval was clearly in his mom's control at some point.  I'd be surprised if she had approval rights and let the dork quote pass.  I suspect she regrets now not having those rights.   

I mention this primarily in the event someone reading this might find themselves in a similar situation at some point.  Approval rights are always a deal point in biographical works like "Year of the Dog", or they should be.   

Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

Boss Hog in the Arkansas

Is there anywhere else this "documentary" can be seen?
That's right, you don't want to be the man to replace the man.  You want to be the man to replace Rory Segrest.

Mike Irwin

Quote from: hawganatic on June 12, 2017, 12:15:39 am
And I respect that.  You know a lot more about the situation and what happened than I do. 

But wasn't the full quote, and please correct me if I'm wrong,  something like what a dork followed by Arkansas would have a better chance of getting me if Nutt wasn't there?
He was already committed to Arkansas at the time that happened so no, he didn't say anything about Arkansas having a better chance with him if Nutt wasn't there because they already had him.

Mitch knew that if he had an issue with Nutt he could, at anytime, open up to me about it even if he wanted to go off the record. At no time did he ever criticize Nutt in my presence even after he committed to USC. As far as I know the only time he ever publicly aired any negative feelings about Nutt was in the film that is the subject of this thread and that was done years after he left Arkansas.

For whatever reason Danny Nutt was spreading the rumor that Mitch's mom didn't like his brother as far back as the spring of Mitch's junior year. I talked to her all the time and I can tell you it was nonsense. She didn't have a problem with Nutt until December of 2006 when his wife was caught texting copies of the Teresa Prewett email to Mitch with the comment, "This was written by a friend of our's. We think it's quite funny."

You are correct in stating that Mitch should have gone somewhere else. As I've stated Tennessee would have given him the best chance for success. But he grew up a Hog fan and in spite of all the rumors during his recruitment he was always going to Arkansas. It was in his blood.

bphi11ips

Quote from: Mike Irwin on June 12, 2017, 03:00:01 pm
You are correct in stating that Mitch should have gone somewhere else. As I've stated Tennessee would have given him the best chance for success. But he grew up a Hog fan and in spite of all the rumors during his recruitment he was always going to Arkansas. It was in his blood.

That's what I thought all along and why it broke my heart to see the way he was treated.  Some of us here grew up around the Nutt family and aren't terribly surprised by what happened.  What a nightmare for Mitch. 

I still haven't seen the movie but now plan to watch it soon. 
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: bphi11ips on June 12, 2017, 03:06:36 pm
That's what I thought all along and why it broke my heart to see the way he was treated.  Some of us here grew up around the Nutt family and aren't terribly surprised by what happened.  What a nightmare for Mitch. 

I still haven't seen the movie but now plan to watch it soon. 

You know, I didn't care for HDN but I was shocked at how that whole HDN/Murray State Mafia/Code Reds Vs. Gus/Springdale 5/Mitch Mustain & Mother thing spun way out of control, how so many wrong things were allowed to occur, that people outside the program (the Posse) were allowed to be involved and how quickly all of this happened. I thought it was a terrible black eye for Arkansas and the only losers in the whole thing were some of the players and their parents. Sad.
Go Hogs Go!

12247

My old foggy mind believed that Mustain was headed to Miami I think.  I also believed he had chosen against Arkansas because of the system we usually operated which was a slick way of saying he didn't wish to run Nutt's run, run and then throw a desperate and dumb pass that had little chance of completion.  I thought he changed his mind when he learned Gus would be in charge of the offense and chose Arkansas.  There was more than 1 Kid who wanted Arkansas but chose against Arkansas at about that time due to the scheme/Nutt situation.

Houston Nutt was overall, worse for Arkansas than Petrino ever was.  Nutt couldn't call a decent offensive plan though he loved to call the plays.  Even Clint Eastwood knew a man had to know his limitations and Nutt never knew his.  Nutt had absolutely no feel for the flow of the game and more often than not, he stuffed the old mo of his team and caused the loss time after time.  He could always find someone other than himself to blame and did just that.

It has been said time after time that changing coaches too often is soooo bad for a program.  We kept the fool 10 years, allowed him to destroy the mindset of the program and then finally paid him to leave.  Nutt never should have been hired, was then allowed to stay 6 years longer than he should have after being foolishly hired and then we paid him to leave.  We set the standard for Arkansas coaches and told the sports world that you can come to Arkansas, stay way longer than you should be allowed without producing, then leave with a bag of the University's money.  When and if Upper Management at this school ever sets the expectations higher and then hires their coaches in with the understanding that pulling their Pud isn't acceptable, only then will you get better results.  It isn't incidental that we are 1-13 in Championship games and always lose the big one, its totally acceptable and OK here.  Nutt set that standard.

 

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: 12247 on June 12, 2017, 07:23:11 pm
My old foggy mind believed that Mustain was headed to Miami I think.  I also believed he had chosen against Arkansas because of the system we usually operated which was a slick way of saying he didn't wish to run Nutt's run, run and then throw a desperate and dumb pass that had little chance of completion.  I thought he changed his mind when he learned Gus would be in charge of the offense and chose Arkansas.  There was more than 1 Kid who wanted Arkansas but chose against Arkansas at about that time due to the scheme/Nutt situation.

Houston Nutt was overall, worse for Arkansas than Petrino ever was.  Nutt couldn't call a decent offensive plan though he loved to call the plays.  Even Clint Eastwood knew a man had to know his limitations and Nutt never knew his.  Nutt had absolutely no feel for the flow of the game and more often than not, he stuffed the old mo of his team and caused the loss time after time.  He could always find someone other than himself to blame and did just that.

It has been said time after time that changing coaches too often is soooo bad for a program.  We kept the fool 10 years, allowed him to destroy the mindset of the program and then finally paid him to leave.  Nutt never should have been hired, was then allowed to stay 6 years longer than he should have after being foolishly hired and then we paid him to leave.  We set the standard for Arkansas coaches and told the sports world that you can come to Arkansas, stay way longer than you should be allowed without producing, then leave with a bag of the University's money.  When and if Upper Management at this school ever sets the expectations higher and then hires their coaches in with the understanding that pulling their Pud isn't acceptable, only then will you get better results.  It isn't incidental that we are 1-13 in Championship games and always lose the big one, its totally acceptable and OK here.  Nutt set that standard.

Quote from: Mike Irwin on June 11, 2017, 06:39:26 pm

You don't have a clue.

Mitch was dead serious when he committed to Arkansas. When practices were over at SHS many times he would race over to the U of A to catch the last hour or so of the Hogs' workout. He came to all the home games and helped lobby the recruits at those games.

He decommitted for one reason only. Nutt fired Roy Wittke, who Mitch thought was going to be his quarterbacks coach, and hired Gus Malzahn. Mitch had no intention of having Malzahn as his high school and college coach. He also was not interested in running the hurry up no huddle offense that Malzahn had installed at Shiloh Christian and SHS. Mitch had been told by Wittke that Arkansas was going to a pro-style offense which Mitch preferred. He recommitted when Nutt announced that Malzahn would coach the receivers not the quarterbacks at Arkansas.

As for the "dork" comment, how long since you were in high school? High school kids say off the wall stuff all the time. In fact Mustain's mom told Malzahn he was nuts if he turned a sportswriter loose on those players for the proposes of writing a book. So Mitch is in his room listening to the Ole Miss game on the radio. Arkansas wins it's first SEC game of the season. Nutt starts going Howard Dean crazy when Chuck Barrett interviews him in the locker-room after the game. Mitch hears that, laughs and says, "What a dork."

It didn't mean squat. If he really thought Nutt was a dork he would have gone to any of about 15 other schools that would have taken him in a heartbeat.

Read what Mike Irwin had to say about that.
Go Hogs Go!

Mike Irwin

Quote from: 12247 on June 12, 2017, 07:23:11 pm
My old foggy mind believed that Mustain was headed to Miami I think.  I also believed he had chosen against Arkansas because of the system we usually operated which was a slick way of saying he didn't wish to run Nutt's run, run and then throw a desperate and dumb pass that had little chance of completion.  I thought he changed his mind when he learned Gus would be in charge of the offense and chose Arkansas. 

The amount of misinformation floating around back then was mind boggling. There was no shortage of fans, anti Nutt and pro Nutt, who thought Mustain committed to Arkansas because of Malzahn. Imagine learning that the opposite was true? The kid decommitted when he found out Malzahn had been hired. To this day there are people who cannot accept this because they listened to the rumor mill. The whole story of that season is filled with misconceptions and inaccuracies and believe me I fell victim to it many times myself.

I can't ever remember being more stunned than when the dad of one of the Springdale five, years after the fact, told me that Malzahn told him if Nutt got fired he had a good chance of being the next head coach at Arkansas. I sat there and let that sink in. NO WONDER NUTT WENT NUTS WHEN HE WAS "ENCOURAGED" TO HIRE MALZAHN. The dude probably knew St. Gus was coming after his job.

What a mess that was.

Those of you who take shots at Jeff Long, just know that there's no way a circus like that could take place these days. Boosters don't have that kind of power anymore.

hogsfan31

Quote from: 12247 on June 12, 2017, 07:23:11 pm
My old foggy mind believed that Mustain was headed to Miami I think.  I also believed he had chosen against Arkansas because of the system we usually operated which was a slick way of saying he didn't wish to run Nutt's run, run and then throw a desperate and dumb pass that had little chance of completion.  I thought he changed his mind when he learned Gus would be in charge of the offense and chose Arkansas.  There was more than 1 Kid who wanted Arkansas but chose against Arkansas at about that time due to the scheme/Nutt situation.

Houston Nutt was overall, worse for Arkansas than Petrino ever was.  Nutt couldn't call a decent offensive plan though he loved to call the plays.  Even Clint Eastwood knew a man had to know his limitations and Nutt never knew his.  Nutt had absolutely no feel for the flow of the game and more often than not, he stuffed the old mo of his team and caused the loss time after time.  He could always find someone other than himself to blame and did just that.

It has been said time after time that changing coaches too often is soooo bad for a program.  We kept the fool 10 years, allowed him to destroy the mindset of the program and then finally paid him to leave.  Nutt never should have been hired, was then allowed to stay 6 years longer than he should have after being foolishly hired and then we paid him to leave.  We set the standard for Arkansas coaches and told the sports world that you can come to Arkansas, stay way longer than you should be allowed without producing, then leave with a bag of the University's money.  When and if Upper Management at this school ever sets the expectations higher and then hires their coaches in with the understanding that pulling their Pud isn't acceptable, only then will you get better results.  It isn't incidental that we are 1-13 in Championship games and always lose the big one, its totally acceptable and OK here.  Nutt set that standard.

This is one of the reasons why Tommy Tuberville has never coached at the U of A. Tommy has always said if you get run off from coaching in your home state, where are you going to go? Told my dad this years and years ago.

AlmaHog2011

Quote from: 12247 on June 11, 2017, 09:10:01 pm
Nutt was a piece of crap long before Gus or Mitch came to the U0fA and it isn't likely that he has changed since.  Mitch was doomed if he stayed here and as it proved out, doomed it he transferred to USC.  I suggest if he had gone to Tulsa as Gus did, he would be playing in the NFL today.  I believe we witnessed the total ruination of a quality football player.  The only part Mitch played in the scheme other than being the fall Guy was deciding to go to USC.  Had he gone to at least 20 other schools, he would have played and progressed, in my opinion.

Mitch isn't the only player Nutt screwed over, just maybe the most famous.

Not by a long shot. Nutt screwed over more than a few players. Sad and something that shouldn't happen at all.

hogsfan31

Quote from: AlmaHog2011 on June 12, 2017, 08:06:24 pm
Not by a long shot. Nutt screwed over more than a few players. Sad and something that shouldn't happen at all.

Just shows you how alive and well the good ole boy network was at the time. Sickening. It's one thing I have liked that Jeff Long out a halt to. People that had no business making those types of decisions can't anymore.

wildhogman

Quote from: Mike Irwin on June 12, 2017, 07:44:52 pm
The amount of misinformation floating around back then was mind boggling. There was no shortage of fans, anti Nutt and pro Nutt, who thought Mustain committed to Arkansas because of Malzahn. Imagine learning that the opposite was true? The kid decommitted when he found out Malzahn had been hired. To this day there are people who cannot accept this because they listened to the rumor mill. The whole story of that season is filled with misconceptions and inaccuracies and believe me I fell victim to it many times myself.

I can't ever remember being more stunned than when the dad of one of the Springdale five, years after the fact, told me that Malzahn told him if Nutt got fired he had a good chance of being the next head coach at Arkansas. I sat there and let that sink in. NO WONDER NUTT WENT NUTS WHEN HE WAS "ENCOURAGED" TO HIRE MALZAHN. The dude probably knew St. Gus was coming after his job.

What a mess that was.

Those of you who take shots at Jeff Long, just know that there's no way a circus like that could take place these days. Boosters don't have that kind of power anymore.
And givn that Long s a fairly intelligent man. That last sentence is prolly the sinle bigget reason St. Guz was not seriously considered by Long after CBP wrecked in the ditch. Or we could be having HDN 2.0 for real

itshogsbaby

Watched this yesterday, thanks OP!  Brought back the good vibes of the 10 straight wins and the subsequent let down of the 3 losses to end the season and the wheels falling off the program.   Welcome surprise hearing Nolan as the narrator.   IMO, a very interesting and well made documentary.

wikipedia brown

Zeke, i think mustain as a starter prolly has the best win percentage of any college qb ive ever heard of.

oldhawg

Quote from: zeke_in_kc on June 13, 2017, 02:14:54 pm
I thought Mustain was about as overrated as a QB can be but only because of the ridiculous hype.  He was lauded as a HS deity who I believed would never develop (even in a pro-set leaving gimmicks behind) into more than an -- at best -- competent NCAA signal caller.  But that's just me.

With that much hype?  If he wasn't the best college QB ever?  He was a failure.  Sum?  Mustain had no chance to live up to such burdens placed upon him.  It was wicked unfair, especially given his previously explained introverted nature.

It was just a cluster but distills to the following: Mitch Mustain just wasn't a good college QB, at two stops.  Reasons abound but there's no discounting that history.  :(



With all due credit to his supporting cast, Mustain was the starting quarterback in seven or eight straight victories.  When you are my age he will be the answer to a trivia question, "Who is the only Razorback quarterback to be undefeated as the starting quarterback of the team?"  All of the turmoil surrounding his tenure at Arkansas will have passed into oblivion.  People will be left trying to guess why he left the team after only one year, or they will have succumbed to believing age old rumors ---- or they just won't care.

Mike Irwin

Quote from: zeke_in_kc on June 13, 2017, 02:14:54 pm
I thought Mustain was about as overrated as a QB can be but only because of the ridiculous hype.  He was lauded as a HS deity who I believed would never develop (even in a pro-set leaving gimmicks behind) into more than an -- at best -- competent NCAA signal caller.  But that's just me.

With that much hype?  If he wasn't the best college QB ever?  He was a failure.  Sum?  Mustain had no chance to live up to such burdens placed upon him.  It was wicked unfair, especially given his previously explained introverted nature.

It was just a cluster but distills to the following: Mitch Mustain just wasn't a good college QB, at two stops.  Reasons abound but there's no discounting that history.  :(
I don't think he was overrated. I think he got caught up in a nightmare. When your head coach, his brother, his wife and their friends are trashing you, when you've got teammates that spread false rumors about you, when the head coach never talks directly to you but instead uses a 3rd party to communicate with you, you think that might get into your head? That's a lot for a true freshman to handle.

Mitch wanted to redshirt but Frank ordered Nutt to start him after the USC loss. That was the worst thing that could have happened to him. If he'd sat out that year Malzahn would have been gone by the time he hit the playing field. Nutt pretty much told Mitch when he came in to announce he was transferring that he should stay. Things were going to be much better for him. I told Mitch that I had no doubt that was true. With Gus out of the way any success Mitch had would be credited to Nutt which was the whole issue in the first place. Nutt knew Gus was after his job and if Arkansas won big with Mustain Gus would get the credit.

AT USC he never had a chance. Pete Carroll and his staff about halfway believed all that stuff about him not being a team player and that his mother wanted to run the team. I have no idea why they offered him. I do know that he felt like a outsider the whole time he was there. The weird kid from Arkansas with a crazy mother.

Sed76

I'll always wonder if that game against LSU in 06 would have ended different had Mustain got a chance since Dick was absolutely terrible that day from what I remember.

 

Mike Irwin

Quote from: Sed76 on June 13, 2017, 04:23:07 pm
I'll always wonder if that game against LSU in 06 would have ended different had Mustain got a chance since Dick was absolutely terrible that day from what I remember.
Probably wouldn't have mattered. At that point he was pretty much shell shocked with all the things that happened to him. He played about half the time in the bowl game vs Bielema's Wisconsin team. As I recall both he and Casey Dick struggled.

You can go back and look at Mitch's work that season and after a really good start he began to decline after the Auburn game which is when Nutt got all bent out of shape about the "dork" comment from a year earlier.

bphi11ips

Quote from: zeke_in_kc on June 13, 2017, 02:14:54 pm
I thought Mustain was about as overrated as a QB can be but only because of the ridiculous hype.  He was lauded as a HS deity who I believed would never develop (even in a pro-set leaving gimmicks behind) into more than an -- at best -- competent NCAA signal caller.  But that's just me.

With that much hype?  If he wasn't the best college QB ever?  He was a failure.  Sum?  Mustain had no chance to live up to such burdens placed upon him.  It was wicked unfair, especially given his previously explained introverted nature.

It was just a cluster but distills to the following: Mitch Mustain just wasn't a good college QB, at two stops.  Reasons abound but there's no discounting that history.  :(



You go from saying he was overrated only because of the hype to saying he just wasn't a good college QB.  With the benefit of hindsight. 

You have a point about hype, some of which came from the phenomenal success of the Springdale Bulldogs.  QB's get more credit than they deserve sometimes.  Same with blame.  But the hype was based in measurables and skills visible on the field.

You seem to judge ever player by how you project him in the NFL.  How did you project Matthew Stafford out of high school?  Same measurables as Mustain.  Same hype.  Mustain's stats were much better than Stafford's as a true freshman.  With the game on the line in OT against Alabama, Mustain threaded a rope to Ben Cleveland for the win. 

Would Mustain have ever spun the ball like Bret Favre?  Maybe not, but we will never know what might have been because the poor kid got screwed blue and tattooed by a couple of megalomaniacs vying for millions per year.  Give the kid a break rather than exhibiting your mad scouting skills.
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

Sed76

Quote from: Mike Irwin on June 13, 2017, 06:01:44 pm
Probably wouldn't have mattered. At that point he was pretty much shell shocked with all the things that happened to him. He played about half the time in the bowl game vs Bielema's Wisconsin team. As I recall both he and Casey Dick struggled.

You can go back and look at Mitch's work that season and after a really good start he began to decline after the Auburn game which is when Nutt got all bent out of shape about the "dork" comment from a year earlier.

Maybe so. Just remember sitting in the stands cursing like a sailor when Dick threw 4 straight incompletions on that last drive. Had been killing them with the run then went to that garbage.

hoghearted

Quote from: bphi11ips on June 13, 2017, 06:36:05 pm
You go from saying he was overrated only because of the hype to saying he just wasn't a good college QB.  With the benefit of hindsight. 

You have a point about hype, some of which came from the phenomenal success of the Springdale Bulldogs.  QB's get more credit than they deserve sometimes.  Same with blame.  But the hype was based in measurables and skills visible on the field.

You seem to judge ever player by how you project him in the NFL.  How did you project Matthew Stafford out of high school?  Same measurables as Mustain.  Same hype.  Mustain's stats were much better than Stafford's as a true freshman.  With the game on the line in OT against Alabama, Mustain threaded a rope to Ben Cleveland for the win. 

Would Mustain have ever spun the ball like Bret Favre?  Maybe not, but we will never know what might have been because the poor kid got screwed blue and tattooed by a couple of megalomaniacs vying for millions per year.  Give the kid a break rather than exhibiting your mad scouting skills.

zeke is a Nutt apologist. Anyone that was crossways with Nutt, or made him look bad (Petrino, Mallett, etc) gets slammed as being overrated. His bias leaves him unable to even consider an opposing view. 
It really is this simple. Unchecked government power leads to corruption, and lack of accountability for it is drastically eroding confidence in our institutions.    aristotle

ronmahony

The thing that I also realized back then, I thought Gus was a pretty straight dude. Cared about his kids, Christian guy and all that. But it finally dawned on me. Those were his kids, he rode on their backs to get the O.C. Job, then when all that harassment started did he do anything or say anything to back his kids up? Not as far as I know. He just skipped out, had the Tulsa job so he still got what he wanted. Now I wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire.

I remember there was a document on here somewhere that outlined all that stuff that happened, the shoes and all that. Sounds like a few ought to read it. I did see the documentary the other night, man that was sad. I still think we should have won it all that year. Mitch didn't have to pass every down. Just having him back there kept the defense from stacking 8 or 9 in the middle. Sigh.
"If you are able, save for them a place inside of you and save one backward glance when you are leaving for the places they can no longer go.
     Be not ashamed to say you loved them, though you may or may not have always. Take what they have taught you with their dying and keep it with your own.

     And in that time when men decide and feel safe to call the war insane, take one moment to embrace those gentle heroes you left behind.

OneTuskOverTheLine™

Quote from: Hawgphish on June 11, 2017, 07:39:27 pm
I think it speaks volumes about Nutt that he remains out of coaching.

I don't think their was a single coach or player who didn't have blood on their hands. Debating about which [CENSORED] was a bigger [CENSORED] doesn't change the smell on your favorite [CENSORED]...
Quote from: capehog on March 12, 2010...
My ex wife had a pet monkey I used to play with. That was one of the few things I liked about her

quote from: golf2day on June 19, 2014....
I'm disgusted, but kinda excited. Now I'm disgusted that I'm excited.

Mike Irwin

Quote from: OneTuskOverTheLine™ on June 14, 2017, 05:19:42 am
I don't think their was a single coach or player who didn't have blood on their hands. Debating about which [CENSORED] was a bigger [CENSORED] doesn't change the smell on your favorite [CENSORED]...
At one time I had issues with those who harassed the freshmen of 06. It started in the summer. One of Malzahn's recruits (not one of the Springdale kids) told me that the upperclassmen hated them. He was totally baffled. Like, we just got here. What did we do to them?

I was really ticked at those players. What were they thinking? Later however I realized that they were being influenced by their coaches. They probably believed what they were told. That anybody Malzahn signed was a hot shot jerk that needed to be put in his place.

If you're suggesting that Mustain or some of the other freshmen had "blood on their hands," that's nuts. None of them ever did anything to hurt the team. I was around them six days a week. They weren't like that.

bphi11ips

Quote from: ronmahony on June 14, 2017, 02:11:15 am
The thing that I also realized back then, I thought Gus was a pretty straight dude. Cared about his kids, Christian guy and all that. But it finally dawned on me. Those were his kids, he rode on their backs to get the O.C. Job, then when all that harassment started did he do anything or say anything to back his kids up? Not as far as I know. He just skipped out, had the Tulsa job so he still got what he wanted. Now I wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire.

I remember there was a document on here somewhere that outlined all that stuff that happened, the shoes and all that. Sounds like a few ought to read it. I did see the documentary the other night, man that was sad. I still think we should have won it all that year. Mitch didn't have to pass every down. Just having him back there kept the defense from stacking 8 or 9 in the middle. Sigh.

My evolution on Malzahn is similar to yours.  Not sure I ever had an opinion on his faith, but he did seem like a good guy passionate about his players.  When he left for Tulsa and kept his mouth shut I thought he took the high road for everyone's sake. 

My opinion of Malzahn changed a bit when I read "Year of the Dog".  Voigt hints pretty strongly that Malzahn used Mitch to land the Arkansas job.  My opinion was influenced further when Mike Irwin saw the light. I don't always agree with Mike, but I respect his opinions.  He doesn't make stuff up.  Then I met Malzahn and left with this impression - the guy is an arrogant jerk.  Not to be mistaken with shy aloofness.  Not the kind of guy you'd want your son playing for.

My opinion on Malzahn as a football coach has changed a bit, but not as much as my opinion of him as a human being.  Without Cam Newton, Auburn has been pretty ordinary.  Like Petrino, Malzahn seems to have trouble fielding a balanced team.  Also like Petrino, it seems his highest and best use is as an OC.  Regardless of what I think of them, Petrino and Malzahn are two of the best offensive minds at the college level I've ever seen.

You make a good point about Mustain's presence keeping opponents from stacking the box. 
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

PORKULATOR

You guys should get shirts made. "Hootie Haters"
🤣🤣😂😂

It's been a decade plus... Let it go
Everytime I reach a goal or achieve something new in life, someone's beat me there and wrote f♡€% you all over it - JD Salinger
I've got a fever and the only perscription...  is more cowbell.- THE Bruce Dickenson.

bphi11ips

Quote from: PORKULATOR on June 14, 2017, 08:29:07 am
You guys should get shirts made. "Hootie Haters"
🤣🤣😂😂

It's been a decade plus... Let it go

It's the offseason.  Plus, we now have a decade to have watched Nutt, Malzahn and Mustain in the aftermath.  Some good reflection in this thread.
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

Letsroll1200

Mustain had a lot of talent but he did not have the key intangible to lead a football team. Guys in the locker room just didn't respect him! Mustain was hurt by the Arkansas media, people outside of the locker room and it ultimately hurt how you was seen inside of the locker room. Despite all the things Brandon Allen had to deal with as QB for Arkansas. Allen never lost the respect of the guys that strip it up and take the field with him. However, Nutt did not protect Mustain as he should and he got into a pissing match with people outside of the locker room. One of the biggest mistakes was hiring Gus! He was terminated the day he was forced to hire Gus to be a coach at the University of Arkansas.

Inhogswetrust

Quote from: Mike Irwin on June 12, 2017, 07:44:52 pm

Those of you who take shots at Jeff Long, just know that there's no way a circus like that could take place these days. Boosters don't have that kind of power anymore.

THIS is the most interesting thing said in the whole thread.........................
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

Mike Irwin

Quote from: Letsroll1200 on June 14, 2017, 09:46:02 am
Mustain had a lot of talent but he did not have the key intangible to lead a football team. Guys in the locker room just didn't respect him! Mustain was hurt by the Arkansas media, people outside of the locker roomh and it ultimately hurt how you was seen inside of the locker room. Despite all the things Brandon Allen had to deal with as QB for Arkansas. Allen never lost the respect of the guys that strip it up and take the field with him. However, Nutt did not protect Mustain as he should and he got into a pissing match with people outside of the locker room. One of the biggest mistakes was hiring Gus! He was terminated the day he was forced to hire Gus to be a coach at the University of Arkansas.
That whole "players in the locker room didn't respect him," stuff was overblown. There were a handful of guys, blindly loyal to Nutt, who didn't like any of the freshmen, especially Mustain. They had been influenced by the coaches.

But there were others, like the offensive linemen, who loved what Mustain did during that winning streak. As one of them told me, "We were tired of trying to run block against sacked defenses. He made our jobs easier."


WilsonHog

Quote from: Letsroll1200 on June 14, 2017, 09:46:02 am
Mustain had a lot of talent but he did not have the key intangible to lead a football team. Guys in the locker room just didn't respect him! Mustain was hurt by the Arkansas media, people outside of the locker room and it ultimately hurt how you was seen inside of the locker room. Despite all the things Brandon Allen had to deal with as QB for Arkansas. Allen never lost the respect of the guys that strip it up and take the field with him. However, Nutt did not protect Mustain as he should and he got into a pissing match with people outside of the locker room. One of the biggest mistakes was hiring Gus! He was terminated the day he was forced to hire Gus to be a coach at the University of Arkansas.

Of all the issues that caused me not to respect Nutt, his reaction to the hiring of Malzahn and his subsequent working relationship with him is near the top of the list. In my mind, Nutt had two choices (either one of which would have been perfectly understandable):

(1) react to Frank Broyles the way Kenny Hatfield did regarding assistant coaches - tell him no and look for the first decent opportunity to leave; or,

(2) suck it up and figure out a way to use Malzahn's strengths to improve our program.

Instead, what he did was act like a petulant child and kill his own career.




bphi11ips

Quote from: WilsonHog on June 14, 2017, 10:39:55 am
Of all the issues that caused me not to respect Nutt, his reaction to the hiring of Malzahn and his subsequent working relationship with him is near the top of the list. In my mind, Nutt had two choices (either one of which would have been perfectly understandable):

(1) react to Frank Broyles the way Kenny Hatfield did regarding assistant coaches - tell him no and look for the first decent opportunity to leave; or,

(2) suck it up and figure out a way to use Malzahn's strengths to improve our program.

Instead, what he did was act like a petulant child and kill his own career.





This about sums it up.
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

hogsanity

Quote from: bphi11ips on June 14, 2017, 08:11:10 am
My evolution on Malzahn is similar to yours.  Not sure I ever had an opinion on his faith, but he did seem like a good guy passionate about his players.  When he left for Tulsa and kept his mouth shut I thought he took the high road for everyone's sake. 

My opinion of Malzahn changed a bit when I read "Year of the Dog".  Voigt hints pretty strongly that Malzahn used Mitch to land the Arkansas job.  My opinion was influenced further when Mike Irwin saw the light. I don't always agree with Mike, but I respect his opinions.  He doesn't make stuff up.  Then I met Malzahn and left with this impression - the guy is an arrogant jerk.  Not to be mistaken with shy aloofness.  Not the kind of guy you'd want your son playing for.

My opinion on Malzahn as a football coach has changed a bit, but not as much as my opinion of him as a human being.  Without Cam Newton, Auburn has been pretty ordinary.  Like Petrino, Malzahn seems to have trouble fielding a balanced team.  Also like Petrino, it seems his highest and best use is as an OC.  Regardless of what I think of them, Petrino and Malzahn are two of the best offensive minds at the college level I've ever seen.

You make a good point about Mustain's presence keeping opponents from stacking the box. 

College coaches all have to have a certain amount of sliminess to them because of the job they are in. Trying to convince 17-18 yr olds to come play for them so they can keep their jobs or do well enough to find a better one. And, as soon as they do convince a kid to come, they are out trying to find someone better than they are to maybe replace them. It is just a dirty business.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Inhogswetrust

Quote from: zeke_in_kc on June 14, 2017, 12:41:03 pm
The difference being leverage due to wins and personal reputation.

1.  Hatfield had some.
2.  Nutt did not.

That said, in terms of national perception, Nutt performed well at Arkansas.  After two years at Ole Miss he looked genius.

3.  But he wasn't, as discovered.
4.  That's why he's not coaching, now.

I don't think Arkansas history has much to do with it.

I think a little of his history both while at Arkansas and old misses does have a little to do with it.
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

riccoar

He's saying Nutt had two options.  Nutt was given an ultimatum.  Hire an OC or hit the road.  Nutt played sly and hired the OC.  He then proceeded to undermine him at every turn.  Nutt was so self involved he could not stand for someone else to get credit.

As for Ole Miss, Nutt did exactly there with Orgeron's recruits that he did here with Danny Ford's.  His biggest deficiency as a coach was recruiting.

And as far as getting over Nutt, I got two things to say.

First, he will never admit any guilt with anything that happened during that time.  And secondly, that son of a bitch attempted to burn this program down on his way out the door.  So, he can keep his Okie Lite alumni ass anywhere but here.

PORKULATOR

Quote from: bphi11ips on June 14, 2017, 08:46:02 am
It's the offseason.  Plus, we now have a decade to have watched Nutt, Malzahn and Mustain in the aftermath.  Some good reflection in this thread.
a little, yes. But most of it is the same Ole tired thing.
Everytime I reach a goal or achieve something new in life, someone's beat me there and wrote f♡€% you all over it - JD Salinger
I've got a fever and the only perscription...  is more cowbell.- THE Bruce Dickenson.

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: PORKULATOR on June 14, 2017, 01:46:25 pm
a little, yes. But most of it is the same Ole tired thing.

Be tolerant. Posts like, "How many will we win?" or "Mutt Friedman's SEC Win Projections for 2017", or "What are we going to do about RB Depth?", will be posted several more times than anything about Nutt or Mustain as we go forward through the rest of June, July and early August. It's a slow time, You've been around for a while, I would assume you know how things roll while we are waiting for August camp?
Go Hogs Go!

bphi11ips

June 14, 2017, 07:44:57 pm #94 Last Edit: June 15, 2017, 08:37:16 am by bphi11ips
Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on June 14, 2017, 07:01:09 pm
Be tolerant. Posts like, "How many will we win?" or "Mutt Friedman's SEC Win Projections for 2017", or "What are we going to do about RB Depth?", will be posted several more times than anything about Nutt or Mustain as we go forward through the rest of June, July and early August. It's a slow time, You've been around for a while, I would assume you know how things roll while we are waiting for August camp?

There's also a thing called closure.  For many people, Razorbacks football ties us to our ancestors and our descendants.  It ties us to our home.  It ties us to our alma mater.  It is a constant in our lives.  It carries on when people come and go in our lives.  We remember the good times and hope for next year.  Water flows under ground, and the Razorbacks are there.

Houston Nutt did an incredible amount of damage to Razorbacks football.  There is no way to make up the crap he pulled.  That's why we flew banners and submitted FOIA's and ran ads in newspapers.

Nutt did what he did because he was insecure.  He is human.  People who know his background, and others like him whose overbearing fathers dominate youth sports, can at least understand the insecurities that destroyed him.  But he seriously damaged something we all loved - including Houston himself.

So don't read threads about Nutt or Malzahn or Mustain if they bore you.  Just excuse those of us who are still trying to get some closure about what he did to our Hogs.
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

hog of steele

I learned a few things in this thread. Up until now I though Mitch decommited b/c he thought our coach was a dork. I thought Malzahn was why he came back. There is a different idea presented here that I had never heard. So I appreciate this thread.

Mike Irwin

Quote from: hog of steele on June 15, 2017, 08:46:12 am
I learned a few things in this thread. Up until now I though Mitch decommited b/c he thought our coach was a dork. I thought Malzahn was why he came back. There is a different idea presented here that I had never heard. So I appreciate this thread.
During the three months after his orginal committment Mustain became extremely close to quarterbacks coach Roy Wittke. Wittke indicated that by the time Mitch was ready to play (redshirt was a real possibility) Arkansas would have switched to a pro style offense. Mitch would have a chance to break free of the Hurry Up No Huddle he operated out of in high school under Malzahn and run an offense he would see in the NFL. This was extremely important to him. To him the HUNH was his high school offense. Been there, done that. It was time to move on.

I would point out that even though he was upset when Wittke was fired Mitch was never rude to Nutt. He asked for a private meeting and explained to him in that meeting that he was decommitting just to take a look at Notre Dame which had reconnected with him. He wasn't dropping Arkansas. He wanted the whole thing to be kept confidential because he knew a crap storm that would erupt if word got out.

Nutt said he would keep it quiet but in the 15 minutes it took him to get back to Springdale the word was out. Mitch pulled into the Sonic on south business 71, switched on the radio in his pickup and Otis was telling Rick and Chuck that Mitch had decommitted. I later learned that Nutt told Danny and it was Danny who told Otis.

hog of steele

Quote from: Mike Irwin on June 15, 2017, 09:25:10 am
During the three months after his orginal committment Mustain became extremely close to quarterbacks coach Roy Wittke. Wittke indicated that by the time Mitch was ready to play (redshirt was a real possibility) Arkansas would have switched to a pro style offense. Mitch would have a chance to break free of the Hurry Up No Huddle he operated out of in high school under Malzahn and run an offense he would see in the NFL. This was extremely important to him. To him the HUNH was his high school offense. Been there, done that. It was time to move on.

I would point out that even though he was upset when Wittke was fired Mitch was never rude to Nutt. He asked for a private meeting and explained to him in that meeting that he was decommitting just to take a look at Notre Dame which had reconnected with him. He wasn't dropping Arkansas. He wanted the whole thing to be kept confidential because he knew a crap storm that would erupt if word got out.

Nutt said he would keep it quiet but in the 15 minutes it took him to get back to Springdale the word was out. Mitch pulled into the Sonic on south business 71, switched on the radio in his pickup and Otis was telling Rick and Chuck that Mitch had decommitted. I later learned that Nutt told Danny and it was Danny who told Otis.

Old grudges aside, do you think Nutt had it in him run a pro style offense with a balanced attack? Outside of the nonsense, the real criticism of Nutt (in my mind) is that he could have been a great coach if he focused on motivating and found some coordinators to coordinate.

riccoar

Quote from: hog of steele on June 15, 2017, 09:41:22 am
Old grudges aside, do you think Nutt had it in him run a pro style offense with a balanced attack? Outside of the nonsense, the real criticism of Nutt (in my mind) is that he could have been a great coach if he focused on motivating and found some coordinators to coordinate.

Nutt could motivate Stevie Wonder into believing he wasn't really blind.  But he also could not recruit and had zero intention of the spotlight ever being shone on anybody but himself.

He agreed to hire an OC to keep his job.  We had a Wizard of Oz scenario.  Gus' image was projected onto the big screen, while Nutt was the tiny man behind the little curtain punching the buttons and pulling the knobs.

LZH

Quote from: hog of steele on June 15, 2017, 09:41:22 am
Old grudges aside, do you think Nutt had it in him run a pro style offense with a balanced attack? Outside of the nonsense, the real criticism of Nutt (in my mind) is that he could have been a great coach if he focused on motivating and found some coordinators to coordinate.


Nutt would have never willingly hired an OC who was 'smarter' than him. One night at a fish fry, the subject of him calling his own plays came up. He told a friend of mine something to the effect of "if it is my butt on the line, I'm not letting someone else call the games." At the time it made sense to me, but that was before 2004-2005 and way before Gus was ever thought of.