Best Advice for a Young Man

[cvlunrest]

Hey guys, if this has been covered I apologize. My son is 17 and interested in becoming a pilot. Where should he start? There are a couple of college programs Henderson and LeTournea in Longview( he wont have the grades for LeT). How bout National Guard?
Money for lessons just not an option. If he follows this path I see him as a private pilot or best case working for Fed Ex
Input please....

[Brownstreak]

It's a tough job market and not likely to get much better.  Many US pilots are going overseas where the money is better.  So many of the airlines have slashed pay and decimated any retirements, that it's tough to stay optimistic.  I would personally advise against aviation as a career.

Having said that, Henderson State is probably the best bang for the buck as far as getting an aviation degree.  If it were my son I would tell him to also get a degree in something else he would like to do if flying doesn't work out (medical, furlough, etc...). 

The military route is also a good way to go, but apples and oranges compared to all civilian.  I'll let the military guys speak to that.

I'd say more, but I'll probably come off as a "Debbie Downer" and I don't want to be that guy.  Good luck with whatever he decides.  A degree is important regardless!

[FaytownHog]

It's a tough job market and not likely to get much better.  Many US pilots are going overseas where the money is better.  So many of the airlines have slashed pay and decimated any retirements, that it's tough to stay optimistic.  I would personally advise against aviation as a career.

Having said that, Henderson State is probably the best bang for the buck as far as getting an aviation degree.  If it were my son I would tell him to also get a degree in something else he would like to do if flying doesn't work out (medical, furlough, etc...). 

The military route is also a good way to go, but apples and oranges compared to all civilian.  I'll let the military guys speak to that.

I'd say more, but I'll probably come off as a "Debbie Downer" and I don't want to be that guy.  Good luck with whatever he decides.  A degree is important regardless!

I've thought about it as a career too, but I'm worried about the same stuff. Scary world. Hopefully the economy will turn around some day. Who knows.

[theFlyingHog]

I just keep telling myself that nobody has hit mandatory retirement age in almost five years. It will help younger pilots a bit when people start hitting 65.


I got a private loan to train at Central in Little Rock. It's gotten a lot more expensive since I started and the payments on it on a young pilot's salary are not fun, but it was my only option.

You have to like it a lot, and you better be motivated. And patient.

[cvlunrest]

Thanks guys. truth is the economy has really bouced me around the last three years after being with two companies for over 20 years combined. I know of no industry that is on solid ground except maybe energy. And by that I mean oil, gas,nuclear, i think all the green energy stuff is crap.
Anywho appreciate the feedback....

[duckbutter]

My son told me he wanted to fly when he was 15.... I asked him how bad he wanted it and if he was willing to work for it.... He mops the hangar, cleans the bathrooms , washes
planes and is an extra set of hands in exchange for flying lessons....His mom and I have kicked in some & he gets lessons as birthday and xmas gifts but for the most part he has done it on his own.... He flew his solo on his 16th birthday & he is as interested in the mechanical & design end of it as well and is planning a career in aviation  but not as a pilot..... I think Oklahoma state, Texas a&m  & UT have degrees in the field..... You might check into spartan in Tulsa... Dont know much about them but they are there... Embry Riddle is supposed to be tops ..... Hope this helps...

http://www.spartan.edu/
http://www.erau.edu/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kteJN5vPhn8&feature=relmfu

[Flying Razorback]

Henderson does have a good program as has been said.  Louisiana Tech also is supposed to have a good program.  I know a lot of guys that did the program at Lewis University in Naperville, IL.  I know a ton of people who have done Embry Riddle as well.  I personally would never want to go to Embry Riddle, but some like it.

The Air Force gives milliions of dollars of training for free!...

[FaytownHog]

Henderson does have a good program as has been said.  Louisiana Tech also is supposed to have a good program.  I know a lot of guys that did the program at Lewis University in Naperville, IL.  I know a ton of people who have done Embry Riddle as well.  I personally would never want to go to Embry Riddle, but some like it.

The Air Force gives milliions of dollars of training for free!...

don't you mean "free" ?

[Flying Razorback]

don't you mean "free" ?

Well sure they own me, however, that means I'm stuck making $75,000-$100,000 a year for the next 6 years until I have the option of leaving the service.  Meanwhile they paid for my undergrad in aerospace engineering, are paying for my masters degree, have given me all my licenses and training I've needed, and give me pretty good job security right now.

That being said, it's not for everyone and I definitely see the value in being able to drop everything in life and change direction if the desire is there.

[El Guapo]

as a LeTourneau man... if you can find any way to get him into LETU, do it!

[FaytownHog]

Well sure they own me, however, that means I'm stuck making $75,000-$100,000 a year for the next 6 years until I have the option of leaving the service.  Meanwhile they paid for my undergrad in aerospace engineering, are paying for my masters degree, have given me all my licenses and training I've needed, and give me pretty good job security right now.

That being said, it's not for everyone and I definitely see the value in being able to drop everything in life and change direction if the desire is there.

You didn't start out making 75k a year did you? Plus what are the qualifications needed to be a pilot in the air force? I'm assuming it isn't all as tough as flying a fighter plane is it?

[Flying Razorback]

You didn't start out making 75k a year did you? Plus what are the qualifications needed to be a pilot in the air force? I'm assuming it isn't all as tough as flying a fighter plane is it?

No I started out in the low 40's but at year 4 I was up to high 60's/low 70's.  Plenty of tax breaks and such too that give you a little more spending power out of the pay check.

The training is hard.  The first half is basically training everyone to fly fighters, that way you can really tell who will hack it and who won't.  It's the only place you'll be pulling 6+ G's in formation doing aerobatics just 5 months from the first day you ever touched an airplane.

It takes a year to graduate and you get a lot more in that year than a year flying civilian because of how rigorous the training is.  After one year from first touching an airplane you're stepping out to strap on an F-16/A-10/C-130/C-17 and do what they do.  It's kind of cool.

I've been an instructor in the last phase of training the past 3+ years which is the advanced phase teaching the airlift/tanker students how to fly large jets and fly with a crew.  It's pretty cool and there's a lot of free hours.  The day you graduate you walk over to the FAA and they give you your commercial license, instrument rating, and multi-engine ratings.

[gotyacovered]

cvlunrest - i am not in the aviation field, (i am the idiot that pays to fly, rather than getting paid to fly ) but i have watched my dad for the last 33 years, and the only thing i see these guys haven't made perfectly clear: it is one industry there is no shortcuts; you have to pay your dues. and there are lots of unemployed pilots out there that have paid their dues.

now once you have built sometime, the only shortcut to the job he may want, is to know someone.

[flynhog]

This may help.  96% of American Airlines pilots are over then age of 45.  In 15 years the pilot force turnover will be huge.  The pilot shortage is coming.  Since the manditory retirement age was raised from 60 to 65, the shortage was delayed by 5 years, but its fast approaching.  Most other airlines are in the same boat.  Now is a good time to be training to be a pilot.  Dont wait until they hiring starts to start training. 

Go to the best training facility you can afford.  Don't go cheap on this.  Any company worth working for is going to require a college degree too, so go to a school where you can get an aviation degree and the ratings.  In Arkansas, that's Henderson State in Arkadelphia.  If you already have a college degree, the military is the best way to do it if you are up to it.  If you want to fly fixed wing dont go to helicopter school.  Air Force, Navy, Marines, and then the Army in that order.  Don't forget about the National Guard or the Reserves.  Check them out too.  It's a great way to get ratings paid for and have employment and get great experience.  If military won't work for you, try  Embry Riddle or Flight Safety Academy.  Avoid Spartan School of Aeronautics.  In central arkansas Central Flying service has a great flight training department.   Most small airports around the state have flight instructors who will teach you. It's a long, hard, and expensive road.  Count on having to work for peanuts for years before your dream job finds you.  But once you find the job that's right for you, you'll never work another day in you life.

[gotyacovered]

This may help.  96% of American Airlines pilots are over then age of 45.  In 15 years the pilot force turnover will be huge.  The pilot shortage is coming.  Since the manditory retirement age was raised from 60 to 65, the shortage was delayed by 5 years, but its fast approaching.  Most other airlines are in the same boat.  Now is a good time to be training to be a pilot.  Dont wait until they hiring starts to start training. 

Go to the best training facility you can afford.  Don't go cheap on this.  Any company worth working for is going to require a college degree too, so go to a school where you can get an aviation degree and the ratings.  In Arkansas, that's Henderson State in Arkadelphia.  If you already have a college degree, the military is the best way to do it if you are up to it.  If you want to fly fixed wing dont go to helicopter school.  Air Force, Navy, Marines, and then the Army in that order.  Don't forget about the National Guard or the Reserves.  Check them out too.  It's a great way to get ratings paid for and have employment and get great experience.  If military won't work for you, try  Embry Riddle or Flight Safety Academy.  Avoid Spartan School of Aeronautics.  In central arkansas Central Flying service has a great flight training department.   Most small airports around the state have flight instructors who will teach you. It's a long, hard, and expensive road.  Count on having to work for peanuts for years before your dream job finds you.  But once you find the job that's right for you, you'll never work another day in you life.

i agree with this. my dads company has 4 guys in their 60's. i dont think they have a required retirement age, but... their days are numbered.

i have heard great things about Henderson, have a bother in law that went thruough the program, we went to OBU so i am not sure how that worked, but he liked it.

[fdx flyer]

There's been a lot of great info in this thread.  I'll add my 2 cents worth - take it or leave it. 

I'm 40.  I've been flying for FedEx for a little over seven years now.  The last eight months have been as a copilot on the 777.  I absolutely love my job.  Sure, there are things to complain about, but in general it's fun, pays very well, and has excellent benefits - including retirement.  Of course, there's no guarantee that things will continue to go so well for the next 20-25 years, but who can predict that?  In my opinion, FedEx is one of the best aviation careers available.

Ok, lets back up a few steps.  How did I get there?  I went to Auburn on a Navy ROTC scholarship, and was commissioned the day I graduated.  I majored in aerospace engineering.  (by the way, Auburn also has a great aviation program).  Looking back, I think my major was too aviation related.  I think Mechanical Engineering would've been much more versatile, and not as tied to the aviation economy.   My particular take is that getting an aviation related degree is putting all your eggs in one basket.  You need a college degree to get on with the major airlines, but not a degree in anything aviation specific. 

The Navy paid me while I was in training, and then I got to fly some amazing aircraft - including on and off aircraft carriers.  It was a dream come true.  However, I was locked in to 7 years of service after training.  Now I believe it's a minimum of 10 years after training.  Training usually takes close to 2 years.  That's 12 years after college before you can even start an airline career.  I know some civilian pilots who got hired at FedEx in their mid 20s - no way you could do that as a military pilot.  (pretty slim odds as a civilian too though, you really have to be lucky and know the right people at the right time). 

There are some other cons to the military route as well.  Obviously time away from home is a big one.  Really the biggest con for me was the amount of time I spent doing non-aviation related stuff as Navy Officer.  I'm an airplane nut. Dealing with troubled kids and doing tons of admin work and planning work was not my cup of tea.  Certainly its a good life skill to learn, but it was not my strength.  I hear that the Air Force doesn't put as much non-flying work on their pilots as the Navy does, but can't say if that's really true or not.

(As an aside, one thing I did not know about as a youngster was the Air Guard.  It can potentially be the best of both worlds.  Great military training, with the ability to get a full time civilian aviation job at an earlier age.)

I agree with the previous posts regarding the coming pilot shortage.  The age 65 rule just delayed everything a  bit.  The problem is that over half the airplanes in the sky are now Regional Jets.  I left the Navy at age 32.  I was making around 70k at the time.  I flew RJs for Comair for a year before getting hired at FedEx.  My pay rate was $22 per hour.  I made less than $20k at Comair that year.  I could've driven a dump truck for more money.  Fortunately I was flying in the Reserves at the time, and was able to supplement my income - actually more than double it.  With a family of four, it was still a lean year though.  I think if you stuck with a regional airline, you could probably make around $100k or so as a senior captain.  It not an awful career, but it's hardwork without nearly the pay of benefits of the majors.  Which leads to my last point.

The problem is that the aviation career triangle has become very broad based, and very narrow at the top.  There just aren't as many great paying jobs anymore, and there are lots of crappy ones.  Even the big names like Delta, American, etc have taken big pay cuts and aren't the incredible "dream job" they used to be.  You used to be able to assume that if you started out in aviation, you'd eventually make it to the top - making big money, flying great trips, quality time off, etc.  The odds of that working out are much slimmer now, I think.  Certainly not impossible though.

I guess in summary, go for it if aviation is what your son loves.  Just realize that it's gonna be hard work, some years of low pay, and no guarantee you're gonna end up at the top.  He needs to keep in touch with every contact he ever makes.  You never know who might end up helping you get a job one day.  With so many young, qualified pilots vying for better jobs, it's very much a  "who you know" industry.  I ended up getting an interview at FedEx because one of my previous Navy student's Dad was a senior captain there.

[fdx flyer]

One more thing I just thought about.  Maybe Flying RzrbkAF can help me out with some numbers here, but if you choose the Air Force route, just be aware of the UAV program.  There's a chance you could go through flight training, and then end up flying drones.  None of this counts as actual pilot time.  I'm not sure if you're stuck with this for a career, but it'd at least be 3 years or so - really a show stopper if you want to be a civilian pilot afterwards.  So far, I believe the AF is the only service with this program.  In the other services, you might not get to fly the plane of your dreams, but at least you'll be in the cockpit. 

[Brownstreak]

Spot on, fdx flyer.

  I've been at OoPS as long as you have been at FDX.  I wish I would've put more effort into FDX than OoPS.  Oh well, they offered-I accepted.

[Flying Razorback]

cvlunrest,

As much negativity as there is in this thread about the future of jobs in the aviation industry, remember this, there is nothing out there that compares to flying.  It's absolutely incredible.  There's a reason people pay a lot of cash for the opportunity to just experience it a few times.  There are ways to make it work.

As has been previously stated, it is one career where there are not short cuts and the dedication required is very very high.  We all pursue perfection in our lives, training, and execution.  Because this is an environment in which less than 100% effort can get you and others killed or injured very quickly. 

I love what I do and I won't trade it for anything.  The best you can do is get his grades up to the best you can and get him in school.  If coming out of high school he's not ready for a big school or the dedication then I would hit the local community college and get the first two years out of the way and get the study habits formed.  Then with a clean slate and two years of good grades I would re-assess where he's at.  In the mean time take him to fly-ins, air shows, and to the local FBO and keep him exposed so he can have a goal.

It's the best thing out there.