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Annual conference expansion talks heat up - Big 12, SEC adding teams?

Started by WizardofhOgZ, May 05, 2012, 04:03:44 pm

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MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: ArkansasI on May 15, 2012, 09:08:06 am
I get what you're saying, but I actually believe that the business end of the deal is also stronger in my vision.  The TV revenues from an 11 game SEC conference slate would be staggering.  You would have multiple weekly games that would have strong national appeal.  Every game counts.  Teams play roughly the same schedules...

If the Hogs only win 5 games, then we miss out on a trip to Shreveport.  I hate that game anyway.

The SEC champion will always make it into whatever playoff system is developed.  If the BCS survives, I think that a 2 loss SEC team that plays a heavy conference schedule would get in to the national championship game ahead of most undefeated teams from anywhere else...  How many championships have we won in a row?

I think that the thing we lose from the system I propose is having 2 SEC teams in the national title game.  FWIW - I know that LSU and Alabama were the two best teams in college football last year, but I believe it was wrong that Alabama got a second bite at the apple.

No offense, but your "vision" of an 11 game SEC schedule is a sure recipe for the exclusion of an SEC team from the BCS championship game. No need to beat ourselves up more than other conferences to the point that we don't qualify for the NCG while being able to just say that we made more money than everyone else. A part of what makes television money for us is based in the fact that we are the most dominating conference, that we have been to the NCG so many times in a row and won it. That's marketing with value.

An 11 game SEC schedule? Slive would have you thrown into a straight jacket if you made that statement at one of the Conference meetings.
Go Hogs Go!

ArkansasI

Quote from: Tim Harris on May 15, 2012, 09:13:41 am
You will think that way until that extra game costs us a chance at a BCS Bowl/championship then you will be wondering why we did it.  The same thing goes for us putting 8 - 9 teams in a bowl game and then we have 6 or 7.  The elite teams (top 2 or 3) may be ok with it but it will hurt everyone else.

No, I won't think that.  I will never regret a strong schedule.  I am convinced that the money generated from heavy conference scheduling would out-pace whatever second tier bowls that we might miss out on.

Not intending to be dramatic here, but I am 45 years old and the football Hogs haven't played in a national championship game during my lifetime.  The years of my life are flying past.  As optimistic as I am, each football weekend in the fall is precious to me.  I would prefer to look forward to each and every football game with some reasonable anticipation, rather than watch the Hogs cruise through a couple of rent-a-wins.

Besides, the price of tickets is gotten much too high to pay so dearly to watch scrimmages.  Wouldn't you rather play Kentucky than Louisiana-Lafayette?  Tennessee than Tulsa?

I have always believed that the Razorbacks have little to gain and a bunch to lose from playing non-conference rent-a-wins.  I don't believe that the program has gained much as a result of any of them.  And I have been in the stands watching a bunch of these games.

Nope.  I don't believe that I will worry about missing out on too many BCS games.  I prefer that we schedule competitively, rather than schedule weakly in the hope that it buys us a BCS opportunity.  That mentality hasn't helped us in the past.  And our bowl record is awful.

 

Tim Harris

Quote from: ArkansasI on May 15, 2012, 10:01:54 am
No, I won't think that.  I will never regret a strong schedule.  I am convinced that the money generated from heavy conference scheduling would out-pace whatever second tier bowls that we might miss out on.

Not intending to be dramatic here, but I am 45 years old and the football Hogs haven't played in a national championship game during my lifetime.  The years of my life are flying past.  As optimistic as I am, each football weekend in the fall is precious to me.  I would prefer to look forward to each and every football game with some reasonable anticipation, rather than watch the Hogs cruise through a couple of rent-a-wins.

Besides, the price of tickets is gotten much too high to pay so dearly to watch scrimmages.  Wouldn't you rather play Kentucky than Louisiana-Lafayette?  Tennessee than Tulsa?

I have always believed that the Razorbacks have little to gain and a bunch to lose from playing non-conference rent-a-wins.  I don't believe that the program has gained much as a result of any of them.  And I have been in the stands watching a bunch of these games.

Nope.  I don't believe that I will worry about missing out on too many BCS games.  I prefer that we schedule competitively, rather than schedule weakly in the hope that it buys us a BCS opportunity.  That mentality hasn't helped us in the past.  And our bowl record is awful.

I'm just saying most fans will not be happy with playing that many conference games.  What good would it do us to say well we played 12 conference games went 8 - 4 with the losses all going to top 10 teams and finished #25 and went to the Chik fil a bowl or some other mid level bowl.


And to your other part I look forward to every game we have no matter who it is.  We have been there bright and early tailgating no matter who the opponent was.

ArkansasI

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on May 15, 2012, 09:24:31 am
No offense, but your "vision" of an 11 game SEC schedule is a sure recipe for the exclusion of an SEC team from the BCS championship game. No need to beat ourselves up more than other conferences to the point that we don't qualify for the NCG while being able to just say that we made more money than everyone else. A part of what makes television money for us is based in the fact that we are the most dominating conference, that we have been to the NCG so many times in a row and won it. That's marketing with value.

An 11 game SEC schedule? Slive would have you thrown into a straight jacket if you made that statement at one of the Conference meetings.

Maybe.  But I think that if 16 team super-conferences are where we are headed, then this is what we should expect from each conference.  A true playoff system that is played during the regular season within each of 4 major conferences...  The four conference champions go to semi-finals and finals.  The SEC would not suffer at all in such a set-up.

What is the point of 16 team leagues if you seldom play half of the league members in favor of playing middle-tier schools?  All the money is tied in the league members.  I agree that mid-majors will suffer, but the major conference schools will reap serious money.  They'll also continue to draw 70,000 - 110,000 fans each week.

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: ArkansasI on May 15, 2012, 10:12:39 am
Maybe.  But I think that if 16 team super-conferences are where we are headed, then this is what we should expect from each conference.  A true playoff system that is played during the regular season within each of 4 major conferences...  The four conference champions go to semi-finals and finals.  The SEC would not suffer at all in such a set-up.

What is the point of 16 team leagues if you seldom play half of the league members in favor of playing middle-tier schools?  All the money is tied in the league members.  I agree that mid-majors will suffer, but the major conference schools will reap serious money.  They'll also continue to draw 70,000 - 110,000 fans each week.

First of all, you aren't going to see a 16 team play-off scenario. It is frought with differing problems.

Second, what you just said had nothing to do with what you stated before. 11 in-conference games out of 12? Not happening and that is just unrealistic. No one would agree to that.

In a 16 team league it is possible to eliminate 1 OOC game and instead play another (9th) in-conference game but why? It is hard enough to win the SEC without adding another game and as long as you maintained a schedule that had two rent-a-wins, two OOC good teams and 1 crossover team, you are good to go. All you need and a strong enough schedule to qualify, with an SECCG win, to get into the NCG.
Go Hogs Go!

ArkansasI

Quote from: Tim Harris on May 15, 2012, 10:05:59 am
I'm just saying most fans will not be happy with playing that many conference games.  What good would it do us to say well we played 12 conference games went 8 - 4 with the losses all going to top 10 teams and finished #25 and went to the Chik fil a bowl or some other mid level bowl.


And to your other part I look forward to every game we have no matter who it is.  We have been there bright and early tailgating no matter who the opponent was.
I think if we go 8-4 with an 11 game SEC schedule, the Hogs will still go to the Cotton Bowl to play a 10-2 Texas Tech with 2 rent-a-wins.  Once the Big 12 becomes the Big 16, they'd have an 8-4 record, too.

I am genuinely happy that you enjoy all the games.  Many fans do - I go to games when I can regardless of the opponent.  But the game atmosphere suffers quite a bit for non-conference opponents.  Our non-conference games don't draw nearly the same crowd or atmosphere as our conference schedule.  I see many empty seats and lackluster fan support.

Don't get me wrong - I think this is understandable when the game isn't competitive.  But this can't help anything to much.  It can't help recruiting.  It doesn't make me feel better about the team.  And the fans aren't as interested.

Tim Harris

Quote from: ArkansasI on May 15, 2012, 10:27:13 am
I think if we go 8-4 with an 11 game SEC schedule, the Hogs will still go to the Cotton Bowl to play a 10-2 Texas Tech with 2 rent-a-wins.  Once the Big 12 becomes the Big 16, they'd have an 8-4 record, too.

I am genuinely happy that you enjoy all the games.  Many fans do - I go to games when I can regardless of the opponent.  But the game atmosphere suffers quite a bit for non-conference opponents.  Our non-conference games don't draw nearly the same crowd or atmosphere as our conference schedule.  I see many empty seats and lackluster fan support.

Don't get me wrong - I think this is understandable when the game isn't competitive.  But this can't help anything to much.  It can't help recruiting.  It doesn't make me feel better about the team.  And the fans aren't as interested.

If we went to that many games then the La Tech atmosphere would be what you see for Kentucky and those type of teams.  Most fans just aren't going to get worked up for every game throughout the year.

ArkansasI

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on May 15, 2012, 10:21:17 am
First of all, you aren't going to see a 16 team play-off scenario. It is frought with differing problems.

Second, what you just said had nothing to do with what you stated before. 11 in-conference games out of 12? Not happening and that is just unrealistic. No one would agree to that.

In a 16 team league it is possible to eliminate 1 OOC game and instead play another (9th) in-conference game but why? It is hard enough to win the SEC without adding another game and as long as you maintained a schedule that had two rent-a-wins, two OOC good teams and 1 crossover team, you are good to go. All you need and a strong enough schedule to qualify, with an SECCG win, to get into the NCG.


Muskogee,

I didn't say anything about a 16 team playoff schedule.  The conference playoff schedule is played during the regular season.  The national playoff schedule would be 3 games - two semi-finals and a final involving only the 4 championship teams from the 4 16-team super-conferences.

Having 4 divisions of 4 schools in each 16 member conference playing an 11 game conference schedule permits each team in each division to have roughly the same schedule of opponents each year.  Plus, each playing so many conference games a year would allow each school to play every conference opponent within 4 years.  The 4 divisional winners play semi-final and a championship game in the SEC.  Only to qualify for the national semi-final.

It's fun.  It's exciting.  And yeah, it's competitive.  But everyone is in the same boat struggling with the same schedule.

I could see a 3 or 4 game loser actually winning the SEC championship game and qualifying for the national title.  It is possible that one loss would not be so devastating.  Your team wouldn't be mathmatically out of it with an early season loss.

It works for the NFL.

ArkansasI

Quote from: Tim Harris on May 15, 2012, 10:29:08 am
If we went to that many games then the La Tech atmosphere would be what you see for Kentucky and those type of teams.  Most fans just aren't going to get worked up for every game throughout the year.
Pure conjecture buddy.

With this type of scheduling, only half our games would be at home.  For those 6 weekends, I think that people would be pumped up about supporting their team for such an important game.

Keep trying.

Tim Harris

Quote from: ArkansasI on May 15, 2012, 10:44:36 am
Pure conjecture buddy.

With this type of scheduling, only half our games would be at home.  For those 6 weekends, I think that people would be pumped up about supporting their team for such an important game.

Keep trying.

I could say the same thing about you saying every game would have a big game atmosphere if it was a conference game.  I've been to plenty of conference games that had a terrible atmosphere.

ArkansasI

Quote from: Tim Harris on May 15, 2012, 10:47:20 am
I could say the same thing about you saying every game would have a big game atmosphere if it was a conference game.  I've been to plenty of conference games that had a terrible atmosphere.

True.  But we're usually losing those.  :)

Peace.

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: ArkansasI on May 15, 2012, 10:40:15 am
Muskogee,

I didn't say anything about a 16 team playoff schedule.  The conference playoff schedule is played during the regular season.  The national playoff schedule would be 3 games - two semi-finals and a final involving only the 4 championship teams from the 4 16-team super-conferences.

Having 4 divisions of 4 schools in each 16 member conference playing an 11 game conference schedule permits each team in each division to have roughly the same schedule of opponents each year.  Plus, each playing so many conference games a year would allow each school to play every conference opponent within 4 years.  The 4 divisional winners play semi-final and a championship game in the SEC.  Only to qualify for the national semi-final.

It's fun.  It's exciting.  And yeah, it's competitive.  But everyone is in the same boat struggling with the same schedule.

I could see a 3 or 4 game loser actually winning the SEC championship game and qualifying for the national title.  It is possible that one loss would not be so devastating.  Your team wouldn't be mathmatically out of it with an early season loss.

It works for the NFL.

Think what you will be I would be willing to bet the farm that you will never see an 11 game in-conference schedule in the SEC. No one would agree to it. Not happening, period. I don't care what works in the NFL, it isn't going to happen in college football and especially not in the SEC. It isn't necessary, it wouldn't ramp up t.v. packages, we have an easier shot at the NCG now under the current system than we would have under that system and that is the whole goal, win the SECCG and you are in the NCG.
Go Hogs Go!

JULIA

I would like it to be UNC/NC State
West - LSU, Mizzou, A&M, Arkansas
North - UNC, NC State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
South - Alabama, Auburn, MS State, Ole Miss
East - UGA, Florida, UK, South Carolina
THIS S*** IS BANANAS! B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

 

JULIA

Why are people so fond of Virginia Tech? If they joined the SEC they would suck in everything for a while. Its not like they would compete in some sports like Mizzou would. At least with Mizzou they are gonna compete in mens basketball and olympic sports like softball and volleyball but VT wouldnt. How do I know? They currently suck in almost everything in the ACC.
THIS S*** IS BANANAS! B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

TexArkHogFan

If we go to a 16 team conference, it won't matter about the SOS as far as the BCS is concerned. By then, the BCS will be in a playoff format and the only way you will play in a BCS game is to win your division and then play your way forward much like the NFL is doing now. 
There are all kinds of Lions, Tigers and Bears in college football.  But there is only one Razorback.  Beware the Tusks!!! They are coming

GuvHog

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on May 15, 2012, 11:11:43 am
Think what you will be I would be willing to bet the farm that you will never see an 11 game in-conference schedule in the SEC. No one would agree to it. Not happening, period. I don't care what works in the NFL, it isn't going to happen in college football and especially not in the SEC. It isn't necessary, it wouldn't ramp up t.v. packages, we have an easier shot at the NCG now under the current system than we would have under that system and that is the whole goal, win the SECCG and you are in the NCG.

I agree. IMHO 9 SEC conference games per conference member is as high as they will go. A 4 pod 16 team system is highly unlikely too.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

GBHawg

Quote from: JULIA on May 15, 2012, 11:24:54 am
Why are people so fond of Virginia Tech? If they joined the SEC they would suck in everything for a while. Its not like they would compete in some sports like Mizzou would. At least with Mizzou they are gonna compete in mens basketball and olympic sports like softball and volleyball but VT wouldnt. How do I know? They currently suck in almost everything in the ACC.

Because VT would add the state of Virginia to the SEC Network footprint by an additional 3+ million satellite/cable subscribers.  I don't care if its Virginia, VT, UNC, NC St, OK, Ok St, etc.... just that it's 2 teams from 2 different states not currently in the SEC.  Long term, you are looking at a potential $80+ million the UofA could receive every year just from TV money.

ArkansasI

Quote from: TexArkHogFan on May 15, 2012, 11:27:47 am
If we go to a 16 team conference, it won't matter about the SOS as far as the BCS is concerned. By then, the BCS will be in a playoff format and the only way you will play in a BCS game is to win your division and then play your way forward much like the NFL is doing now. 

Exactly.  That's what I'm saying and the fans would win.


Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on May 15, 2012, 11:11:43 am
Think what you will be I would be willing to bet the farm that you will never see an 11 game in-conference schedule in the SEC. No one would agree to it. Not happening, period. I don't care what works in the NFL, it isn't going to happen in college football and especially not in the SEC. It isn't necessary, it wouldn't ramp up t.v. packages, we have an easier shot at the NCG now under the current system than we would have under that system and that is the whole goal, win the SECCG and you are in the NCG.

I would never bet the farm against what I am saying.  It makes too much sense.  Why wouldn't schools agree to it?  Unlike you, I don't know that it would ramp up TV packages, but I find it hard to believe that it wouldn't.  Do you really believe that ESPN/FOX/maybe even an SEC NETWORK wouldn't be salivating at this type of opportunity?
 
I tried to explain why I think that the Hogs would have just as good of a shot under my proposal, but you don't appear inclined to explain why we wouldn't.  The current system has kept us out of the national championship for 50 years...  I am not inclined to believe that we are getting any favors with what we have.  Either way, we'll have to win our division.  It might be easier to win a 4 team division than an 8 team division.  Who knows?

The logistics of tiebreakers and fairness will be near impossible to figure out if we all play different conference teams than if we play the same schedules.  I don't know why so few of us want to address this.  We already hear screams about strength of schedules right now with our permanent non-divisional opponents.  Why not fix the problem by putting everyone on the same schedule?

In a 16 team league, you're still going to have to win the SEC to play for a national title.  I don't understand why it matters if you are undefeated or have 4 losses.  It doesn't seem to diminish the basketball tournament.

Murr

From the baylor boards via the WV boards via the landthieves board:

QuoteInfo from the highly regarded Baylor 247 mod. It was posted on the WVU site.

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=159&f=4582&t=8993948


Big 12 Growing?
Brian Ethridge •
About three weeks ago, one of my best sources on conference realignment called. I thought he was just calling to catch up and say "hello."
I was wrong.
The BCS meetings regarding a college football playoff at the FBS level were approaching, and he told me to watch carfefully what came out of those meetings.
Soon after the ACC schools received their new ESPN contract - which averaged $17 million per school, per year over 15 years - the news leaked of a Big 12 contract for the top two tiers in the range of $20 million apiece. That meant two tiers of the Big 12 was valued at $3 million more than all three tiers of ACC programming.
At that time, at least 10 universities started a market research study on the value of their tier three rights, which remain in possession by Big 12 schools after equally distributing the top two tiers.
Louisville, Pitt, Miami, Florida State, Clemson, Maryland, Virginia Tech, Notre Dame, Georgia Tech, and BYU all received their studies and went to media outlets to gauge the monetary value.
Notre Dame would receive the largest amount, followed by Florida State, Clemson, Georgia Tech, and Virginia Tech. The others were all told that their rights were valued in the $4 million range.
Last Thursday, intermediaries from several schools reached out to decision makers to start conversations about possibly moving to the Big 12.
On Saturday, the Chairman of Florida State's Board of Trustees blasted the ACC contract - especially in terms of the institutions where football was more of a focus than basetball.
Another detail that came to light was that the new ACC contract was backloaded - with members not receiving the $17 million until 2021. The Big 12 deal had a greater rate of acceleration, with schools receiving the $20 million by 2015 - when the rumored ESPN contract would go into effect.
As of today, the ESPN Big 12 contract has not been signed. Escalator clauses in the contract for getting back to 12 teams will raise the contract northward of $25 million per team. The media contracts for the Big 12 will reopen for negotiation if the league expands past 12 teams.
At this time, the Big 12 powers are happy with the thought of 12 teams and a new conference championship game. However, a few of the league's major players would like the contract to reopen for possibly more money by going to 14 teams.
With 14 teams, expected payouts would be approximately $28 million per school, with another $2 million or so per team coming from a conference championship game. And remember, the schools also have their tier 3 rights - unlike the ACC.
Florida State and Clemson coaches have been told a possible move to the Big 12 was under way, and to be ready for this on the road recruiting.
Secondly, our sources also state a Big 12 Tier 3 Network for the schools without the pull of a Texas or OU could form and would likely mean an additional $4 million to $6 million for those institutions. This would ensure constant programming for either Fox Sports or ESPN to show in Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, and other conference markets. Adding two ACC schools would further the reach of this network.
Originally Texas and OU were wanting to remain at 10 schools in the conference, but they began to consider expansion when the tier 3 studies were done by the other schools. The ability of the Big 12 to attract national brands such as Florida State and Clemson raised the bar a bit for a conference long-since stabilized by a 13-year grant of rights by its members.
The next obstacle is finding the right teams to add - and how many. There are several suitors for the additional two or four seats. The issue remains which schools could increase the current contract to the maximum projected $28 million.
Our sources have told us decisions could be made by May 30, when the Big 12 has its annual membership meeting.
All situations can change. However, according to people we trust, if Clemson and Florida State inform the ACC of their decision to leave - and the schools complete the application process for Big 12 membership - then discussions could take place at the May meeting.
It is unclear if the power brokers in the conference would rubber-stamp the applications, or if a school like Texas or Oklahoma would balk at FSU and Clemson being the first two added to the conference ranks.

Murr

Also, http://dudeofwv.blogspot.com/2012/05/big-12-expansion-quiet-and-storm.html

Tuesday, May 15, 2012Big 12 Expansion: The Quiet And The Storm
Clemson is the quiet one.

The decision has been made and they're Big 12 bound.

No drama at Clemson. Clemson's football staff have been notified of an impending move and they're fine with it.

If you want drama look to Tallahassee.

FSU's Board of Trustees have butted heads with the president and made their desire to exit the ACC known.

Make no mistake, Florida State wants to move, but President Eric Barron has found it very difficult to pull the trigger.

He likes the ACC, he really does. He likes being in the same conference as North Carolina and Duke (for academic reasons). He is concerned how FSU's faculty would react to  move and wants them to understand that academics are a priority at  FSU.

What he doesn't like is the pitiful TV contract the ACC managed to beg from ESPN.

Both Eric Barron and the Board of Trustees understand that the ACC, going forward, puts FSU at a distinct competitive disadvantage.

If you don't believe that consider that FSU will be playing for one of four playoff spots.

FSU, and schools throughout the nation, must decide if they want to contend for one of those four playoff spots and be willing to spend the money necessary to compete.

Florida State has resources and a giant athletic department budget, but so do Alabama, LSU, Florida, Texas, Oklahoma and the ramifications for FSU's continued membership in the ACC are profound.

Their peers will be receiving significantly more in television revenues each and every year. And that's why the Board of Trustees at FSU will force Barron's hand and FSU will join Clemson as new members of the Big 12.

The deal is done.

Some notes:

The Big 12 contract maybe as much as $25 million per school and fully vested by year 3.
The Contract has an automatic clause triggering renegotiation with the addition of a #13th member.
ESPN and Fox have the advised Big 12 on who to add and further expansion (beyond 12) depends on value and who's available.
If the right "value-added" teams are not available the Big 12 will not expand.
Miami has said no. Their president plans to reduce the investment in football and worries about NCAA violations.
Georgia Tech is now a serious candidate for 13 and talks are progressing.
Louisville and Cincinnati are no longer under consideration.

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: ArkansasI on May 15, 2012, 11:42:50 am

In a 16 team league, you're still going to have to win the SEC to play for a national title.  I don't understand why it matters if you are undefeated or have 4 losses.  It doesn't seem to diminish the basketball tournament.

If you don't understand what I said, then I don't know what to say to you and college football isn't basketball, where 4 losses is a great record. 4 losses in college football, wont' get you to the SECCG and even if it did, it sure as heck wouldn't put you in the NCG even if you played an 11 game in-conference schedule. I know that you have faith in your idea and you think it is a great idea but as I said before, show up at the SEC meeting and make that statement and watch how fast Slive gets you fitted for a straight-jacket.
Go Hogs Go!

ArkansasI

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on May 15, 2012, 07:03:20 pm
If you don't understand what I said, then I don't know what to say to you and college football isn't basketball, where 4 losses is a great record. 4 losses in college football, wont' get you to the SECCG and even if it did, it sure as heck wouldn't put you in the NCG even if you played an 11 game in-conference schedule. I know that you have faith in your idea and you think it is a great idea but as I said before, show up at the SEC meeting and make that statement and watch how fast Slive gets you fitted for a straight-jacket.

I do understand what you said.  However, I don't believe that you understood what I said.  Fine.

Rest assured, the SEC Champion will always have an opportunity to play in the National title game.

I understand your opposition to my idea.  That's a-ok with me.  I am simply convinced that determining a conference champion is going to be tough to identify in a 14-16 member league.  In my mind, the only way to fix it is through more conference games.

online-with-swine

Saw that on the WV board.  Interesting that most don't even mention VTech or NC st and when they do it is in the context of joining the SEC.

Things are definately heating up.

Murr

Quote from: KnilesKankle on May 15, 2012, 08:49:49 pm
Saw that on the WV board.  Interesting that most don't even mention VTech or NC st and when they do it is in the context of joining the SEC.

Things are definately heating up.
That Big 12 board is very focused on FSU and CU.  It's been very quiet on the SEC side of things.  we just gotta wait.

 

online-with-swine

Quote from: Murr on May 15, 2012, 09:07:33 pm
That Big 12 board is very focused on FSU and CU.  It's been very quiet on the SEC side of things.  we just gotta wait.

That's the funny thing......not a peep out of the SEC.  I think when it happens it will be fast.

Murr

Quote from: KnilesKankle on May 15, 2012, 09:31:30 pm
That's the funny thing......not a peep out of the SEC.  I think when it happens it will be fast.
That and I think Slive and Company learned who they can and cannot talk to as far as leaks go from the A&M and Mizzou additions last year.  Chatter seems to be coming from the Texas side and maybe ESPN side that the Big 12 might only want to take 2 teams this summer.  If FSU and Clemson go, then the SEC grabs VT and NCState or Maryland, the ACC could recover by absorbing 4 Big East Teams and kill them off if the basketball schools don't separate first.

Fun summer for sure.  ;D

Murr

This is from Redhawk, a poster on the landthieves board:
QuoteI was just about to post this. It's from Brian Ethridge, who is a reporter for Baylor247.com. When I went to link to this, this was behind a paywall.

" Louisville, Pitt, Miami, Florida State, Clemson, Maryland, Virginia Tech, Notre Dame, Georgia Tech, and BYU all received their studies and went to media outlets to gauge the monetary value. "

Well, we know who are 10 schools are.
The ten schools he is refering to are the ones that have inquired about possible Big 12 membership recently.

TexArkHogFan

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see where all of this is heading and what some of have been predicting all along.  We will end up with four super conferences with at least 16 teams, maybe more, with the conference champions in a playoff for the national championship.  TV contracts and money control everything.  The only thing left to decide is who goes where and how the bowls will tie in with the championship playoffs.  Take it to the bank, literally. 
There are all kinds of Lions, Tigers and Bears in college football.  But there is only one Razorback.  Beware the Tusks!!! They are coming

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: KnilesKankle on May 15, 2012, 09:31:30 pm
That's the funny thing......not a peep out of the SEC.  I think when it happens it will be fast.

You can bet that Slive isn't just sitting on the porch sipping a cool drink.
Go Hogs Go!

Inhogswetrust

Quote from: Murr on May 15, 2012, 10:18:32 pm
That and I think Slive and Company learned who they can and cannot talk to as far as leaks go from the A&M and Mizzou additions last year.  Chatter seems to be coming from the Texas side and maybe ESPN side that the Big 12 might only want to take 2 teams this summer.  If FSU and Clemson go, then the SEC grabs VT and NCState or Maryland, the ACC could recover by absorbing 4 Big East Teams and kill them off if the basketball schools don't separate first.

Fun summer for sure.  ;D

I am starting to wonder if the SEC may eventually do some sort of "alliance" with either the ACC or Big12 for playing and media similar to what is supposedly being done between the Pac 12 and Big 10. Currently the SEC has no reason to expand again, but may do so IF the landscape changes in the ACC. This could bring about some adjusted version of what Douglas has been saying all along. If schools leave the ACC then I bet that "gentleman's agreement" not to try to raid each other for schools between the SEC and ACC goes out the window faster than a stolen laptop out Of Cam's window. As some have speculated, we may be seeing the start of only 4 true super-conferences. Especially since the BCS is all but certainly going to a 4 team playoff.
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: Inhogswetrust on May 16, 2012, 06:48:20 am
I am starting to wonder if the SEC may eventually do some sort of "alliance" with either the ACC or Big12 for playing and media similar to what is supposedly being done between the Pac 12 and Big 10. Currently the SEC has no reason to expand again, but may do so IF the landscape changes in the ACC. This could bring about some adjusted version of what Douglas has been saying all along. If schools leave the ACC then I bet that "gentleman's agreement" not to try to raid each other for schools between the SEC and ACC goes out the window faster than a stolen laptop out Of Cam's window.

14 leaves an odd number in both divisions, I just can't believe that we will stick at the number. I think the SEC goes to 16 and then that will be the finished product.

The good thing is that the SEC is the "big daddy" of all of the conferences and when the smoke clears, we will have the most rewarding t.v. package. That pretty much puts us in a position where we can pick and choose who we want but timing does play into it as well. I doubt that Slive is just taking it easy and not looking into who the conference would want, but if he is then he ought to get canned. The changing scenario of college football world and the process of the teams that are looking for a new home is beginning to pick up speed and we can't just sit back and wait to see where the chips fall. That's why I have been an advocate of the conference leading the way so that we have the pick of the litter.
Go Hogs Go!

Inhogswetrust

Quote from: redeye on May 05, 2012, 10:11:27 pm
I don't know why so many people keep talking about SEC expansion, when Slive and the Presidents have made it very clear that they don't plan on any further expansions anytime soon. People think they want to expand, but I don't think they do. They didn't even want to expand to 14 teams, but A&M was too good to pass on, due to adding a sizable share of the Texas market.

The timeline and definition for "soon" is fluid................................
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

Inhogswetrust

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on May 16, 2012, 06:56:59 am
14 leaves an odd number in both divisions, I just can't believe that we will stick at the number. I think the SEC goes to 16 and then that will be the finished product.

The good thing is that the SEC is the "big daddy" of all of the conferences and when the smoke clears, we will have the most rewarding t.v. package. That pretty much puts us in a position where we can pick and choose who we want but timing does play into it as well. I doubt that Slive is just taking it easy and not looking into who the conference would want, but if he is then he ought to get canned. The changing scenario of college football world and the process of the teams that are looking for a new home is beginning to pick up speed and we can't just sit back and wait to see where the chips fall. That's why I have been an advocate of the conference leading the way so that we have the pick of the litter.

I agree. If not for that "gentleman's agreement" between the conferences I think the ACC would have already, or be in a real process, of currently losing schools to the SEC. At this point the SEC really has nowhere else to go but east. The new BIG12 media rights exit fees pretty much guarantees no school will leave the BIG12 anymore.
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

Inhogswetrust

Right now it is the Big12's turn. Then it will be the ACC's turn. Then the Big10 will weigh in again. This is almost like choosing sides on a neighborhood kid's sandlot ballfield. Basically what has happened is the raid on the Big East is partailly complete for the time being. When teams leave the ACC then the ACC will have no choice but to complete the total distruction of the Big East.

The mega question in all this is what does ND do? That could change a lot of scenarios. It is getting real close to the time their hand will be forced upon them to jump into a conference. They can't stay outside looking in forever.
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: Inhogswetrust on May 16, 2012, 07:29:47 am
Right now it is the Big12's turn. Then it will be the ACC's turn. Then the Big10 will weigh in again. This is almost like choosing sides on a neighborhood kid's sandlot ballfield. Basically what has happened is the raid on the Big East is partailly complete for the time being. When teams leave the ACC then the ACC will have no choice but to complete the total distruction of the Big East.

The mega question in all this is what does ND do? That could change a lot of scenarios. It is getting real close to the time their hand will be forced upon them to jump into a conference. They can't stay outside looking in forever.

I think that as the face of college football (in terms of conference affiliations) begins to change and if the BCS goes ahead with the removal of AQ status for all teams, you'll find ND joining the Big1G. It makes the most sense from a regional standpoint, an academic standpoint, a financial standpoint, common sports, etc. ND is about to be put in a position where they really have no choice and you may see all of the "Independents" disappear completely.
Go Hogs Go!

Inhogswetrust

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on May 16, 2012, 07:37:49 am
I think that as the face of college football (in terms of conference affiliations) begins to change and if the BCS goes ahead with the removal of AQ status for all teams, you'll find ND joining the Big1G. It makes the most sense from a regional standpoint, an academic standpoint, a financial standpoint, common sports, etc. ND is about to be put in a position where they really have no choice and you may see all of the "Independents" disappear completely.

I agree. As long as things remained status quo then ND didn't have to make a move. That status quo has also gone out the window. It has always made sense that ND would join the Big10. However, sometimes senses ALSO go out the window in decision making. Sometimes what did make sense no longer makes sense, due to the variables impacting that decision changing. 30 years ago I never thought Arkansas and TAMU wouldn't be in the SWC much less togeather in the SEC. My how times have changed and in the context of college sports for the better I think!
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: Inhogswetrust on May 16, 2012, 07:54:47 am
I agree. As long as things remained status quo then ND didn't have to make a move. That status quo has also gone out the window. It has always made sense that ND would join the Big10. However, sometimes senses ALSO go out the window in decision making. Sometimes what did make sense no longer makes sense, due to the variables impacting that decision changing. 30 years ago I never thought Arkansas and TAMU wouldn't be in the SWC much less togeather in the SEC. My how times have changed and in the context of college sports for the better I think!

I think that ND was considering joining the Big East for all sports except football, where they had planned to remain an Independent. But I think that now the Big East may actually have a shorter lifespan than the Big 12 and if that is the case it forces ND to find a home and that isn't going to be the ACC, the Big 12 or the Pac 12 and you know darn good and well they aren't going to come and get their clock cleaned in the SEC every week. That leaves one conference only...the Big1G.
Go Hogs Go!

NWASooner

The Big 12 would offer the Catholics a better deal.  (I do not think Notre Dame is going anywhere.)

If Notre Dame joined the Big 12 like it did the Big East (everything but football), they'd get tons more money because the Big 12 would let them keep the NBC deal.  Notre Dame would have to agree to play 3 or 4 Big 12 teams per year like they did the Big East, though.

However, if Notre Dame did join the Big 12 along with FSU, Clemson, and say, Miami and/or Georgia Tech, that could be a monster TV deal.  Something along the lines of $25M to $30M per year in addition to Notre Dam's tier 3 money from NBC.

Murr

Latest by MHver3 from WVU boards:

QuotePosted: Today 6:29 PM

By the short and curlys

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So what best defined the ACC meetings this week?
Was it Spetmans "barely there" act or his drag race out of there?
Was it Swoffords carefully chosen words of denial?-think lawsuits
Was it the whispers amongst the cliques over the B12 rumors?

Nope.

Swofford is playing his ACE.  Showing his hand.
By changing his stance on Conference champions he is one step closer to forcing Notre Dame's hand.
He may have just ignited conference armeggedon.
By forcing ND to go all-in the question remains-Where will they go????
My contact thinks the B12 has an edge over the ACC and the B1G...but I'm sure there are people in those other conferences who feel the same way.
I will say do not count the PAC out. With no chance at the B12 schools now and wanting greater eastern exposure they could still have a part to play...for BYU as well

Florida state has given the B12 notice that they intend to apply for membership. 
As soon as play-off structure is finalized-the **** will hit the fan
Clemson has already submitted their app
GT rumors are not lining up with what my contact is hearing.  He is hearing they have remained very cold...
Anyone notice Delaney's comments...the evil up north is awkening

Dodds would endorse going to 16 if it meant getting Notre Dame



And the sad/bad news..........................If Stanford formally offers, my contact is 90% sure Luck will go.

NWASooner

Assuming the Big 12 gets Florida State and Clemson, they should go hard after Notre Dame and Miami.

Between Texas, OU, Notre Dame, and Miami, they'd have every single school everyone loves to hate.  The TV ratings would be astronomical.

online-with-swine

When is this NBC deal with ND up?  I just can't see that being very profitable for them (NBC) to tie themselves to a school that hasn't done much of anything in the recent past.  I understand they have a big fanbase but is it enough to drive the entire college football programming for a network?

texas tush hog

Quote from: NWASooner on May 16, 2012, 05:51:57 pm
Assuming the Big 12 gets Florida State and Clemson, they should go hard after Notre Dame and Miami.

Between Texas, OU, Notre Dame, and Miami, they'd have every single school everyone loves to hate.  The TV ratings would be astronomical.

Notre Dame is actually looking to replace FSU and Clemson in the ACC

online-with-swine

If the BCS goes to a 4 team playoff with only conference champs eligible, then do we see the rise of 4 mega conferences (PAC, Big12, B1G and SEC)?  Swofford may have unintentially signed the death certificate for his conference and the Big East.

Another interesting thought.  Wouldn't the conference championship game essentially end up being the opening round of an 8 team playoff?

Inhogswetrust

At some point one of these conference commissioners is going to blink at the wrong time. I just hope it isn't Slive.
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

Murr

Quote from: NWASooner on May 16, 2012, 05:51:57 pm
Assuming the Big 12 gets Florida State and Clemson, they should go hard after Notre Dame and Miami.

Between Texas, OU, Notre Dame, and Miami, they'd have every single school everyone loves to hate.  The TV ratings would be astronomical.
Miami might have pulled out due to academic, $$$ and looming NCAA sanctions.
Quote from: texas tush hog on May 16, 2012, 06:09:12 pm
Notre Dame is actually looking to replace FSU and Clemson in the ACC
If Notre Dame waits and allows 4 teams to leave for the SEC and Big 12, they could join the ACC and bring Navy.  They could set up its own division and still have 4 OCC games.

texas tush hog

Quote from: Inhogswetrust on May 16, 2012, 06:20:32 pm
At some point one of these conference commissioners is going to blink at the wrong time. I just hope it isn't Slive.

Slive has ice water in his veins and he has his hand firmly on the rudder, he won't blink, swerve or yield.

Murr

Forgot one, here is a podcast of a couple of the realignment "insiders" that have been providing coverage/information:
http://www.blatanthomerism.com/2012-articles/may/podcast-the-dude-speaks-on-the-big-12-florida-st-and-conference-realignment.html

I haven't heard it yet, but here is a recap from the WVU boards:
QuoteQuick recap but still worth the listen.

FSU and Clemson began talking to the Big 12 last November
FSU is invetible add for Big 12, too many burnt bridges
Georgia Tech now more attractice to Big 12 than Clemson because of ATL market but it is neck and neck
Clemson likely add at 13 if not 12.
Most likely next add is Pitt, Notre Dame with conference affiliation not football because of GT and Pitt add.
Luck is the ACC intermediary
Jimbo Fisher playing a big role and some FSU booster who helped Fisher and force BB out
Timing most likely late July
Probably major cool down in news over the next couple of weeks in part to threats by ACC to sue for tampering
ESPN contract speculated to be really weak for the ACC since they knew that those schools have been talking and could leave, hedging...
Everybody saying slow down and distancing is right out of the Mike Slive, SEC playbook.

Probably other stuff i forgot, great listen.

Thought of more...

VPI probably SEC bound. Maryland athletic department in bad shape financially, Miami Prez wanting to reduce sports budgets and considered kind of toxic by the Big 12 with NCAA sanctions highly likely.

ACC would try to pick off Louisville, UCONN, Georgetown to become the elite BB league.

Pitt likely number 14. TV partners want 14. Disparity in ACC contractt and Big 12 really more like $9M out of the gate, adding 13th member triggers a renegotiation with TV and that could make the disparity really huge. GT worried about $$$, big 12 has declared war on the SEC for supremecy and top to bottom the Big 12 would be better.

Also suggested GT approached Big Ten with little league interest due to location and not wanting to split up more of the Big Ten network revenue. Sounds like Big Ten wants to sit on the sidelines and possibly target a school or two versus be solicited.

NWASooner

Quote from: Murr on May 16, 2012, 06:25:18 pm
Miami might have pulled out due to academic, $$$ and looming NCAA sanctions. If Notre Dame waits and allows 4 teams to leave for the SEC and Big 12, they could join the ACC and bring Navy.  They could set up its own division and still have 4 OCC games.

You could be right about Miami.  They're bleeding money, under NCAA investigation, and their leadership has always been very hostile towards athletics.  They may not want the Big 12 despite the obvious reasons.  Miami could score huge dollars by moving but their leadership might not want to be "sullied" by athletic money.

What gets me about all this is the Tier 3 money.  I, for one, laughed at the notion that schools could get large amounts of money for it.  Deloss Dodds at Texas was the first to insist on it and even he was surprised how much it was worth.

Now, you have the Big 12 offering 100% Tier 3 rights and people are trying to fight their way into the conference.

If Tier 3 is worth that much, it's only a matter of time before if becomes an issue in the SEC.

Murr

Quote from: NWASooner on May 16, 2012, 07:44:53 pm
You could be right about Miami.  They're bleeding money, under NCAA investigation, and their leadership has always been very hostile towards athletics.  They may not want the Big 12 despite the obvious reasons.  Miami could score huge dollars by moving but their leadership might not want to be "sullied" by athletic money.

What gets me about all this is the Tier 3 money.  I, for one, laughed at the notion that schools could get large amounts of money for it.  Deloss Dodds at Texas was the first to insist on it and even he was surprised how much it was worth.

Now, you have the Big 12 offering 100% Tier 3 rights and people are trying to fight their way into the conference.

If Tier 3 is worth that much, it's only a matter of time before if becomes an issue in the SEC.
SEC allows their teams to control Tier 3 rights, they just can not have their own network like the Big 12 allows.  If SECTV happens, I would expect some kind of minor pulling of third tier or voluntary submitance of content to it. 

Miami appears to be staying in the ACC.
GT looks to have been rejected by the B1G and is now talking to the Big 12.
Maryland, who knows.

NWASooner

Quote from: Murr on May 16, 2012, 11:50:12 pm
SEC allows their teams to control Tier 3 rights, they just can not have their own network like the Big 12 allows.  If SECTV happens, I would expect some kind of minor pulling of third tier or voluntary submitance of content to it. 

Miami appears to be staying in the ACC.
GT looks to have been rejected by the B1G and is now talking to the Big 12.
Maryland, who knows.

What's going to make me laugh is that A&M supposedly left the Big 12 because of the LHN only to go to the SEC where Bama or Florida could possibly do the same.