Old Timers

[GuvHog]

I wouldn't ask those questions publicly.  Nothing was clean about BP.  He sure could get wins but NOTHING was clean about him.

His Hog football program was clean PERIOD.

[Boss Hog in the Arkansas]

His Hog football program was clean PERIOD.

HA 

[jgphillips3]

So what does a 8 win season usually get the team? A mid tier bowl. It does not get you ranked, it does not get you a division title. Why is 8 wins worth more than 7 or less than 9 other than the numerical value of the number being different?

True, but I said 8 or 9 win seasons need to be the norm.  8-4 doesn't get you much but if you had say, this string: 8-4, 9-3, 8-4, 11-1, 7-5.  You probably had a legitimate shot at the title that 11-1 season and historically for all programs, being good enough for title shots once or twice a decade is good.  Then, if you happen to have a freak class and put together multiple 10+ win seasons...wonderful.  This assumes of course you aren't getting 56-3'ed in those losses too.

[3Scoreand10]

We only talk about hypothetical win-loss records in the offseason. What matters to Razorback fans is that the team (football, basketball, baseball):

* Play an appealing style that doesn't inherently limit our upside potential.
* Recruit competently and get all the great talent within easy reach, when it appears.
* Win the games we are supposed to win and occasionally pull off an upset.
* Don't blow games in the second half by going hyperconservative.

These have been consistent threads for Razorback sports over the past 40+ years. If our AD and coaches are unaware of these principles, they're fools.

Exact W-L records don't incite fans to revolt. Underperforming does that. Getting beaten up by a tough schedule isn't that hard to take. Blowing easily winnable games is hard to take. Screwing up - that's what Razorback fans cannot stand. Quit screwing up, you're fine.

I agree 100%
As I have said before, force the other team to win. Make them beat you.

[snoblind]

You are right about the #5 ranking being an exception but for many years being ranked in the top 25 WAS the norm for the Hogs and it still should be. The fact that it isn't the norm now isn't acceptable.

It hasn't been the norm for over 25 years.

My first season sitting in the stands in Fayetteville was 64 so I remember the glory years.  And some not so glorious.  Schedule was pretty much set in stone.  OK. State in LR to open, Tulsa in Fayetteville, and then a rent a win sandwiched somewhere in the SWC schedule.  When we went to 11 games, IIRC, USC was the first opponent added.

Making top 20-25 was simply easier in those days.  Usually it was us and Texas in the top 2 with someone else rising to the top from time to time.  OSU wasn't the OSU of today.  Think we lost to Tulsa, TCU, Rice, and OSU a couple of times each during a run of 25 years or so.  Without the scholarship limits and lack of TV games you didn't see the mid-major type schools rising to the top.  Texas would sign a bunch of kids to scholarships who weren't going to ever play just to keep them from going to other schools, for example. 

[hogsanity]

It hasn't been the norm for over 25 years.

My first season sitting in the stands in Fayetteville was 64 so I remember the glory years.  And some not so glorious.  Schedule was pretty much set in stone.  OK. State in LR to open, Tulsa in Fayetteville, and then a rent a win sandwiched somewhere in the SWC schedule.  When we went to 11 games, IIRC, USC was the first opponent added.

Making top 20-25 was simply easier in those days.  Usually it was us and Texas in the top 2 with someone else rising to the top from time to time.  OSU wasn't the OSU of today.  Think we lost to Tulsa, TCU, Rice, and OSU a couple of times each during a run of 25 years or so.  Without the scholarship limits and lack of TV games you didn't see the mid-major type schools rising to the top.  Texas would sign a bunch of kids to scholarships who weren't going to ever play just to keep them from going to other schools, for example. 

Pretty much every major conf had 2 "perennial" good teams. Big 8 had Ou & Neb, SWC had AR & TX  Sec had Bama and GA, Big 10 was OSU and MIch and then ND lurked in the top 10 as an independent. Then as you said an team would rise up to challenge the usual top 2.

And no one had ever heard of the mac or mt west, or sunbelt ( or whatever the equivalent to those was back then ). 

[GuvHog]

It hasn't been the norm for over 25 years.

My first season sitting in the stands in Fayetteville was 64 so I remember the glory years.  And some not so glorious.  Schedule was pretty much set in stone.  OK. State in LR to open, Tulsa in Fayetteville, and then a rent a win sandwiched somewhere in the SWC schedule.  When we went to 11 games, IIRC, USC was the first opponent added.

Making top 20-25 was simply easier in those days.  Usually it was us and Texas in the top 2 with someone else rising to the top from time to time.  OSU wasn't the OSU of today.  Think we lost to Tulsa, TCU, Rice, and OSU a couple of times each during a run of 25 years or so.  Without the scholarship limits and lack of TV games you didn't see the mid-major type schools rising to the top.  Texas would sign a bunch of kids to scholarships who weren't going to ever play just to keep them from going to other schools, for example. 

From 1963 to 1989 the Hogs were almost always ranked in the top 25. They were ranked in the top 25 a few years during the Hooty era and for 2 years under BP so yes, being in the top 25 has pretty well been the norm for the Hogs.

[snoblind]

Pretty much every major conf had 2 "perennial" good teams. Big 8 had Ou & Neb, SWC had AR & TX  Sec had Bama and GA, Big 10 was OSU and MIch and then ND lurked in the top 10 as an independent. Then as you said an team would rise up to challenge the usual top 2.

And no one had ever heard of the mac or mt west, or sunbelt ( or whatever the equivalent to those was back then ). 

I hadn't thought about it like that, but you are correct.  PAC 10 would have been USC and UCLA.  Wasn't Penn ST also an independent?  so that would be the 2 independents.

[LZH]

We only talk about hypothetical win-loss records in the offseason. What matters to Razorback fans is that the team (football, basketball, baseball):

* Play an appealing style that doesn't inherently limit our upside potential.
* Recruit competently and get all the great talent within easy reach, when it appears.
* Win the games we are supposed to win and occasionally pull off an upset.
* Don't blow games in the second half by going hyperconservative.

These have been consistent threads for Razorback sports over the past 40+ years. If our AD and coaches are unaware of these principles, they're fools.

Exact W-L records don't incite fans to revolt. Underperforming does that. Getting beaten up by a tough schedule isn't that hard to take. Blowing easily winnable games is hard to take. Screwing up - that's what Razorback fans cannot stand. Quit screwing up, you're fine.

I would agree with this. I would even be alright with any of several different styles of offense or defense......as long as we are not one-dimensional.

[k.c.hawg]

58 years old. Remember some radio games with my dad in 64/65. I got to join in on game days starting in 68. I've had tremendous highs with football and basketball and the lowest of lows with both as well. Never will throw in the towel. It's a family tradition.....it would be like not having Thanksgiving because you got some dry turkey. Too much dry turkey, someone else takes over the cooking duties....you don't do away with Thanksgiving.

[Biggus Piggus]

almost all of that is subjective. #3 is just stupid though, the 2013 had nothing to work with. Had to start tr fr in key spots, had no depth, and to top it off their starting Qb played 3/4 of the year with a bad shoulder.

No joke. It's nothing more than revisionist history, unfairly trying to pile more negativity onto the situation. You don't go hire a big-name coach to clean up your disaster + then hold his first season against him. Holy hell. No matter how many times I read this stupidity, it still is irritating every time some complete bozo trots it out again.

[snoblind]

From 1963 to 1989 the Hogs were almost always ranked in the top 25. They were ranked in the top 25 a few years during the Hooty era and for 2 years under BP so yes, being in the top 25 has pretty well been the norm for the Hogs.

What part of "It hasn't been the norm for over 25 years." are you incapable of understanding? 

BP's 2 year run and TCTWF occasionally getting there when someone else built his team and or a year here or there when Arkansas produced a seriously good (BP's run also) isn't the norm.  Those are the exceptions which give us hope it can be done again.  But it is a different playing field than it was in 60's-80's.

[Oklahawg]

I hadn't thought about it like that, but you are correct.  PAC 10 would have been USC and UCLA.  Wasn't Penn ST also an independent?  so that would be the 2 independents.

AZ and AZ State joined the PAC 8 to make it PAC 10. I think. Was the old Miami of Schnellenberger an independent also?

[snoblind]

AZ and AZ State joined the PAC 8 to make it PAC 10. I think. Was the old Miami of Schnellenberger an independent also?

Pretty sure you are correct on both.  I thought about the Arizona schools when making the post, but it just seems like when I was a kid it was always UCLA and USC playing to go to the Rose Bowl. 

I had forgotten about Miami.  Wasn't it the 80's when they became one of powerhouses, though?  I was focused on the 60's through 80's because that was our run.

[Oklahawg]

I am older than anyone else who has mentioned their age so far in this thread.  Beyond the mad spells, I would like to try to explain my feelings. 
1.  It isn't all about how many wins.

2.  It starts out about the nonchalant attitude toward being bad and accepting it.

Ask a player, to their face, if they accepted "being bad". Be sure to use "being bad." They weren't bad. They didn't accept. Hope your medicare card is up-to-date, as you'll be on a gurney headed to the hospital.

3.  It is about going 3-9, 4 years ago when even Smith the year before won 4

Biggus nailed you for this one. Whole lotta "don't get it" at work.

4.  It is about closed practice where fans don't learn much about the staff and players.

No one opens practices much any more. Too many strategic opportunities for opponents to learn something. It is a very wise move.

5.  It is about lowering the conditioning practices from 2 to 1 and showing up with an O-line completely out of condition.

Call them what you want we didn't sacrifice possible minutes we could practice. We just called them something else, and did them somewhere else.

6.  It is about horrible offensive calls that serve to lose the game, not win it.

Happens to the best. Ask Nick Saban.

7.  It is about a team who plays like they have zero mental conditioning.

Suggesting they aren't "football smart"? If anything, they were handed too much to think about.

8.  It is about not having a second team to relieve the 1st team.

Few teams outside of the elites have great replacements across the board. At some point, having to plug in too many reserves weakens the team. Ask Nick Saban about Eddie Jackson's replacement.

9.  It is about losing your #2 QB for 2 of the 4 seasons you have been here within days of the season opener.

When? Who? Our #2 (probably the last two years) was Austin Allen. This year, it was really Cole Kelley. Are you going to stand on the "Rafe Peavy bandwagon" with this one?

10.  It is about continuing to use coaching staff that appear to be inferior for game after game instead of firing them and taking their place on the staff, showing some balls.

I am pretty certain that the industry standard is you don't remove someone until the season is over. The exceptions do exist (hey, Markuson at Wisconsin!) but they are rare.

11.  It is about hiding behind the door while the AD tries to run interference for you.  Stupid tweet.

Sometimes the AD dictates to the employees what will happen. I don't think CBB hides very often.

12.  It is about not only being bad, but showing zero worries and even tweeting that you don't see a problem, that in fact you see strength.

You really expect a public twitterfest over someone's confidential performance review?

13.  It is about getting flogged in some games so bad it embarrasses the entire State, fifty whatever the hell it was to 3, having MO kick the darn out of us and V. Tech raping us and the coach and administration taking the mosey along attitude.  Would it bother this Administration and Staff if one of their children came home with their under garments pulled over their head, naked, dirty from end to end, big bruises all over and crying or would this still be Neveryield

That got your Depends twisted. I don't know a lot of fans away from HV who have any of that. Frustrated? Yes. This has me concerned over your general well-being.

14.  And it is about this time when a sunshiner swears we are on the right track, we just need time.  I wish I could feel and see that track.  Truth is, there is nothing about this operation that I believe is on the right track.  I don't scream fire the coach but I do scream put his ass to work.  His boss cannot see the problem so why should he. 

More irrational angst directed at the AD? The AD has constraints and policies to follow. I want the AD to create the best possible environment for hiring the next coach, whomever it might be. Recklessness doesn't help that. I suspect there is a latent assumption that UA is able to hire a lot better than is reality.

[EastexHawg]

Pretty sure you are correct on both.  I thought about the Arizona schools when making the post, but it just seems like when I was a kid it was always UCLA and USC playing to go to the Rose Bowl. 

I had forgotten about Miami.  Wasn't it the 80's when they became one of powerhouses, though?  I was focused on the 60's through 80's because that was our run.

Yes, the Pac 8 was USC, UCLA, Stanford, Cal, Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, and Washington State.  We played Stanford in 1970, Cal in 1971, and USC in 1972-74.  That happened when the 11th game was introduced for the 1970 season.

[Oklahawg]

Pretty sure you are correct on both.  I thought about the Arizona schools when making the post, but it just seems like when I was a kid it was always UCLA and USC playing to go to the Rose Bowl. 

I had forgotten about Miami.  Wasn't it the 80's when they became one of powerhouses, though?  I was focused on the 60's through 80's because that was our run.

You were 100% correct, I was just trying to add to the point you were making.

AZ and AZ State joined in 1978, the same year Oregon abandoned the mascot "Webfoots" to become the "Ducks".

South Carolina left the ACC in 1971 to be an independent. Florida State joined the ACC in 1991, leaving the Metro Conference.

A 1978 list of independents is pretty lengthy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_NCAA_Division_I-A_football_season#Conference_and_program_changes):

Penn State
Notre Dame
Rutgers
Florida State
Temple
Pitt
Louisville
East Carolina
Southern Miss
Ga Tech
Miami
South Carolina
Cincinnati
Va Tech
Syracuse
West Virginia
Boston College
Memphis and others

[snoblind]

After I posted that comment I got to thinking we played someone else before USC.  Didn't Jim Plunkett play QB for Stanford when we played them?  Hindsight is always 20/20 and that was a great win over USC in LR, but I would have been cool just playing Cal all those years.

[EastexHawg]

Ask a player, to their face, if they accepted "being bad". Be sure to use "being bad." They weren't bad. They didn't accept. Hope your medicare card is up-to-date, as you'll be on a gurney headed to the hospital.

Why would you post something like that?  What does it prove?  Kansas went 2-10 this year and 0-12 the year before.  Are they a bad football team?  I think almost everyone would agree they are.  And yet, almost every player on that team would stomp a mudhole in you and 99% of the posters on this board.

Being able to beat up fans doesn't mean a football program isn't bad.

[snoblind]

You were 100% correct, I was just trying to add to the point you were making.

AZ and AZ State joined in 1978, the same year Oregon abandoned the mascot "Webfoots" to become the "Ducks".

South Carolina left the ACC in 1971 to be an independent. Florida State joined the ACC in 1991, leaving the Metro Conference.

A 1978 list of independents is pretty lengthy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_NCAA_Division_I-A_football_season#Conference_and_program_changes):

Penn State
Notre Dame
Rutgers
Florida State
Temple
Pitt
Louisville
East Carolina
Southern Miss
Ga Tech
Miami
South Carolina
Cincinnati
Va Tech
Syracuse
West Virginia
Boston College
Memphis and others

I thought you were just adding to the point.  That's an interesting list.  I had also forgotten how many teams were independents in those days.  IIRC, Pitt is the only other team besides Notre Dame and Penn St. that was really good in those days.  Think it was around 76 when they won the NC. 

Could be wrong, but I don't recall much about Florida State until after Bobby Bowden had been there awhile.  Late 80's or early 90's?

Seems just like the conferences, there was a big 2 and then other teams would jump to the top for a year or 2.

[Biggus Piggus]

Why would you post something like that?  What does it prove?  Kansas went 2-10 this year and 0-12 the year before.  Are they a bad football team?  I think almost everyone would agree they are.  And yet, almost every player on that team would stomp a mudhole in you and 99% of the posters on this board.

Being able to beat up fans doesn't mean a football program isn't bad.

You seem to have missed the original comment. He claimed that Bielema, or the players, maybe both, accepted being bad, like he did nothing about it, or did nothing to improve, or something.

"It starts out about the nonchalant attitude toward being bad and accepting it."

I'm guessing that the poster was referring to Bielema, probably irked by Bielema's postgame comments or something. I certainly do not expect a coach to dissect his own team for public consumption, but I do find it frustrating, not knowing a good explanation for what caused that complete horror show of a run defense this season.

I don't take it as a nonchalant attitude toward being bad. Some people want to hear the head coach blast people after a bad loss.

I see a lot of attempts at distant psychological analysis on this board. We have plenty to work with, without inventing darn.

[1highhog]

As people grow older, their perspective changes. Priorities change. Keep in mind that many "old timers" who appear to be throwing in the towel, may have spent many decades as passionate, die-hard fans. Are the Razorbacks still important to them?...sure. But as people get older, they just don't lose as much sleep about some of the things they once did. I've been a die-hard fan since the late 60's and I used to not even open the sportspage on days after a loss. I still enjoy going to games, supporting the Foundation, etc. but I just don't get as upset over things as I once did. Interesting how you can get a pretty good idea of a person's age just by the comments they post on HV. There aren't near as many people giving up as you might think. Things will be okay....patience.

This ^^^^ for me.  I can generally tell a persons age, or, tell if they've had to much to drink, lol, by how they post after a game, so now I don't even get on Hogville anymore if the Hogs lose.  It's just not worth it and I can spend my time doing better things, spending time with my wife or my grandchildren.  Priorities do change as you get older.

[EastexHawg]

You seem to have missed the original comment. He claimed that Bielema, or the players, maybe both, accepted being bad, like he did nothing about it, or did nothing to improve, or something.

"It starts out about the nonchalant attitude toward being bad and accepting it."

I'm guessing that the poster was referring to Bielema, probably irked by Bielema's postgame comments or something. I certainly do not expect a coach to dissect his own team for public consumption, but I do find it frustrating, not knowing a good explanation for what caused that complete horror show of a run defense this season.

I don't take it as a nonchalant attitude toward being bad. Some people want to hear the head coach blast people after a bad loss.

I see a lot of attempts at distant psychological analysis on this board. We have plenty to work with, without inventing darn.

Maybe I misconstrued, but I thought he was referring to current fans accepting being "bad".

[12247]

Oklahog, I have never talked down about the players and won't.  I respect your opinions and really don't give a darn if you respect mine or not.  My angst is toward the HC and AD who, in my opinion are failing in their jobs and duties, period. 

I want to thank EastexHog for having a clearer understanding.  One thing this board is loaded down with is folks like OklaHog who demand that you see things their way and feel totally comfortable applying their values to your posts.

[12247]

While I am back on here, I want to say this.  BB and his staff have not done a bad job or recruiting.  I have done research on this and our recruits are around the average of Arkansas recruits over the past 30 plus years.  In fact, according to the recruiting services, we have more 4 stars on average than in the past.  Even BB first year here, that was true and that is why I believe he under performed even that first year. 

While I do not agree with those who make their life's job to prop up this AD and HC, no matter what, that is their opinion and they have a right to their opinion.  I would suggest to them to look at the results, just look at the results.  These results are what they are and no amount of posts by me or anyone else can change those results. 

[TexArkHogFan]

I am 82 years old, so I guess that makes me an old-timer.  I have been a Hog fan for as long as I can remember, at least for 70 years.  I have seen the highs, the lows and the middle of the pack years.  I was a competitive runner for many years so I really loved following Arkansas track, especially during the McConnell years.  In my 70 years of following the Hogs they have won one National Championship in football and one National championship  in  basketball.  I am retired from the Navy and I spent three years in Japan and two years in Bangkok, Thailand,  This was before the internet and had to wait a day to get results from Navy Times.

As you get older, you find that things you were passionate about when you were young, do not excite you as much.  I will always be a Hog fan regardless of the wins and losses, it just doesn't upset me as much when they lose.  If you are building your hopes on winning a national championship. well 70 years is a long time to be disappointed.  So, sit back, enjoy the ride and GO HOGS.

[The OTR]

I'm seeing more old timers throwing in the towel than ever before. Being satisfied with middle of the pack just isn't satisfactory. Difficult time to be a Razorback Fan. I have my opinions but I will keep them to myself. Just sad seeing long time Hog fans giving up.

ricepig is really old and he's still optimistic

I think ricepig is older than Frank Broyles

[Oklahawg]

Oklahog, I have never talked down about the players and won't.  I respect your opinions and really don't give a darn if you respect mine or not.  My angst is toward the HC and AD who, in my opinion are failing in their jobs and duties, period. 

I want to thank EastexHog for having a clearer understanding.  One thing this board is loaded down with is folks like OklaHog who demand that you see things their way and feel totally comfortable applying their values to your posts.

I appreciate the response.

Nothing wrong with a different opinion. I was simply noting that there is a second way to see things, and that there just might be a reasonable explanation for much of what bugs fans.

That does not mean it is still not bothersome. If accurate at all, the post I responded to by 12247 - I think I got his name correct - is not a bad post but instead a rehash of things that we know we can't get answered but still want answered.

It sounds like you aren't interested in there being an option to grousing about Long and Bielema. If you were open to other options you (a) wouldn't have posted a manifesto of sorts and (b) would have been interested in the alternative version of your takes. Hey, maybe you were right on all of them and I was wrong on all of them.

[Oklahawg]

ricepig is really old and he's still optimistic

I think ricepig is older than Frank Broyles

Them's fighting words! (Unless you are correct, and then he's too old to be fighting!!!)

[The OTR]

I am 82 years old, so I guess that makes me an old-timer.  I have been a Hog fan for as long as I can remember, at least for 70 years.  I have seen the highs, the lows and the middle of the pack years.  I was a competitive runner for many years so I really loved following Arkansas track, especially during the McConnell years.  In my 70 years of following the Hogs they have won one National Championship in football and one National championship  in  basketball.  I am retired from the Navy and I spent three years in Japan and two years in Bangkok, Thailand,  This was before the internet and had to wait a day to get results from Navy Times.

As you get older, you find that things you were passionate about when you were young, do not excite you as much.  I will always be a Hog fan regardless of the wins and losses, it just doesn't upset me as much when they lose.  If you are building your hopes on winning a national championship. well 70 years is a long time to be disappointed.  So, sit back, enjoy the ride and GO HOGS.

God bless you sir

[seasonhog]

I'm seeing more old timers throwing in the towel than ever before. Being satisfied with middle of the pack just isn't satisfactory. Difficult time to be a Razorback Fan. I have my opinions but I will keep them to myself. Just sad seeing long time Hog fans giving up.

I would be one of the oldest Razorback fan on this board.......since 1960, when the game was on I scared my children to death with my actions........a true Hog nut.

We fans always had our up & down years, but things started to change for me the last years of Nutt......when Gus was the OC.....Frank messed  things up with Gus/ Nutt...problem....

Frank as much as we owe him....stay to long....he should have put some things in place & retire at least 5 years before he was force out.....now the old true Razorback power is out to pasture, as I see it.

In come JL ...everything change ......but when BP come on as coach I thought this is good....& it was for a while......we know what has happen since.

I just don't like BB.........& our teams are not as good......the culture has change to something I don't like.....also our BB team is & has been in the tank.

This is on the AD & fans to change........at this time I don't have much faith in it changing any time soon.

I don't like losing any game...some of the things I have seen on the field is embarrassing & should be to all true Hog fans...

My 2 cents..........

[PonderinHog]

And ricepig is really old.

[snoblind]

And ricepig is really old.

I guess the only two here close to you and Rice are seasonhog and TexArkHogFan.

[ballz2thewall]

Well I am in my 50's.

1.  My pet Peeve is when people "Accept" that what we are now is the norm...and excited when we slip into top 25 every 4 or 5 years for a week or so..  I remember when we were a top 10 team..even in the top 5.  It can be done here.. Those of us who have been alive a few years longer have seen it.

2.  I don't have many more "Oh Wait till next year" Years left.  I have been in a "Wait till next year funk" for a couple decades now.

yep. this is true. we were always relevant to some degree on a national level.

[oldbooniehog]

Just one more fact about the state of Hog football.

Arkansas last won a conference title in football 27 years ago.

27 years.

And some people think Hog football is just one coach away from returning to some mythical mountaintop of some sort?

Fire Crowe/Kines/Ford/Nutt/Petrino/Smith/Bielema!

27 years since last conference title. Twenty Seven.

It doesn't really matter who coaches Arkansas.

Hasn't for decades now.

[26.2Hog]

I would be one of the oldest Razorback fan on this board.......since 1960, when the game was on I scared my children to death with my actions........a true Hog nut.

We fans always had our up & down years, but things started to change for me the last years of Nutt......when Gus was the OC.....Frank messed  things up with Gus/ Nutt...problem....

Frank as much as we owe him....stay to long....he should have put some things in place & retire at least 5 years before he was force out.....now the old true Razorback power is out to pasture, as I see it.

In come JL ...everything change ......but when BP come on as coach I thought this is good....& it was for a while......we know what has happen since.

I just don't like BB.........& our teams are not as good......the culture has change to something I don't like.....also our BB team is & has been in the tank.

This is on the AD & fans to change........at this time I don't have much faith in it changing any time soon.

I don't like losing any game...some of the things I have seen on the field is embarrassing & should be to all true Hog fans...

My 2 cents..........

Well said.  Thank you, sir.

[EastexHawg]

I feel like I fell asleep and woke up in France.  White flags are all around.  "Give up.  Resistance is futile!"

[NuttinItUp]

Most of the old timers I know have some patience.

It is usually the young-uns that cut and run at the first sign of trouble.

[(notOM)Rebel123]

Most of the old timers I know have some patience.

It is usually the young-uns that cut and run at the first sign of trouble.

Yep.

[EastexHawg]

Most of the old timers I know have some patience.

It is usually the young-uns that cut and run at the first sign of trouble.

Yeah, but then there are also wise old timers who don't diddle around wasting time.  After a while they step back, say, "This...um..."stuff" ain't gonna work", and move on.

[NuttinItUp]

Yeah, but then there are also wise old timers who don't diddle around wasting time.  After a while they step back, say, "This...um..."stuff" ain't gonna work", and move on.

True, there are some trigger-happy old timers, too. There just seem to be more trigger-happy young-uns in my experience.

Your experience may be different from mine. I am just talking about the old timers I know.

[hoghearted]

55 and caring less with each year. The mindset that the Hogs can't do much better and everyone should just accept it will keep bringing the same results and will kill the passion.

Hell, at least there used to be people in charge who put importance on winning and occasionally the Hogs would have a memorable season.

Low expectations seldom result in high achievements.

[EastexHawg]

Broyles was an old timer.  Once he realized a coach wasn't going to make it he fired him after one season and one game.  I don't recall anyone referring to him as cuttin' and runnin'.

[grayhawg]

Most of the old timers I know have some patience.

It is usually the young-uns that cut and run at the first sign of trouble.

I would say 5 years and 60+ games ago was when trouble started, not this season. Besides as a rule oldtimers have lass time to wait than youngsters.

[ThisTeetsTaken]

Standing alone with a blank stare on your face while the team is in a colossal meltdown giving up huge leads is disheartening. 

[NuttinItUp]

I would say 5 years and 60+ games ago was when trouble started, not this season. Besides as a rule oldtimers have lass time to wait than youngsters.

Old timers know the difference between 5 and 4 years to start...   New math, maybe?

You young-uns got a lot to learn.

[grayhawg]

Old timers know the difference between 5 and 4 years to start...   New math, maybe?

You young-uns got a lot to learn.

2012,2013,2014,2015, 2016 One Jon L and 4BB, BTW i'm 74 and you're how old?

[NuttinItUp]

2012,2013,2014,2015, 2016 One Jon L and 4BB, BTW i'm 74 and you're how old?

Oh I gotcha. BB is responsible for JL's year too. Probably for the motorcycle, as well?

That makes perfect sense.

[bphi11ips]

So what does a 8 win season usually get the team? A mid tier bowl. It does not get you ranked, it does not get you a division title. Why is 8 wins worth more than 7 or less than 9 other than the numerical value of the number being different?

Pretend you are advising a client considering an investment in rice. The producer's maximum potential is 15 bushels per acre.  You investigate and conclude the land is marginal and the farmer's expertise is corn.  You further conclude the average annual yield is 7-8 bushels per acre. 

How do you advise your client?

[EastArkHog 47]

Glad I had the opportunity to be a Hog fan in the 60's, I may not live long enough to see another decade like it. That said, the 80's were pretty good and the 70's had some great moments also, the 90's were just plain brutally bad. Here we are now in 2017 with a Coach from Iowa, AD from Ohio, Chancellor from Michigan and a President from Pennsylvania, seems like the BOT done went North.