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Arkansas Mountian Lions

Started by Hogjawls, December 16, 2008, 07:08:36 pm

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Hogjawls

Just behind my house.
My neighbor called me about a month ago saying a large cat with a long tail
crossed in front of her car on Sturgis road.


http://www.todaysthv.com/news/news.aspx?storyid=77318

Hammibal Lecter

Quote from: Breems on January 14, 2014, 10:53:08 pm
I PEED. I PEED. MY PANTS HAVE PEE PEE.

 


DeltaBoy

Till some one kills one and calls the papers and the TV we will get the Deflect and Deny from the AGFC.
If the South should lose, it means that the history of the heroic struggle will be written by the enemy, that our youth will be trained by Northern school teachers, will be impressed by all of the influences of history and education to regard our gallant dead as traitors and our maimed veterans as fit subjects for derision.
-- Major General Patrick Cleburne
The Confederacy had no better soldiers
than the Arkansans--fearless, brave, and oftentimes courageous beyond
prudence. Dickart History of Kershaws Brigade.

DoggtownHog

How stupid a man is depends on where he's standing.

Hogjawls

Quote from: DoggtownHog on December 17, 2008, 10:39:00 am
He should have shot it. Then there is no debate.

They showed it on video.
Looked about 3 ft. long with long tail.
Ch.11 showed the trap with meat set for it.

HogNuttz

Quote from: DeltaBoy on December 17, 2008, 09:16:57 am
Till some one kills one and calls the papers and the TV we will get the Deflect and Deny from the AGFC.

If there is as many cougars as reading this board would lead one to believe, then killing one should be no problem.
Work harder!!!......millions of illegals, welfare bums, multi-millionaire financial CEO's who've trashed their companies, unionized auto workers in Detriot, and other recipients of our governments social programs depend on you.

twistitup

Hognuttz,
Killing a cougar is difficult in areas with even with the highest populations.  They are not like deer or squirrel - much smarter and more elusive. We don't have very high populations in AR, LA, or TX so they are not killed that often.

Also, most people are scared to shoot them because they don't want to get in trouble- thinking they might be protected. If the AGFC said shoot them on site, we would see more dead!
How you gonna win when you ain't right within?

Here I am again mixing misery and gin....

jep_hog_fan

Quote from: HogNuttz on December 18, 2008, 04:58:22 pm
If there is as many cougars as reading this board would lead one to believe, then killing one should be no problem.

How many deer are in Arkansas? How many people have not seen a deer in Arkansas? I know of plenty.

How many people post on Hogville? How many people on here have said they have seen cougars? Small percentage.

kodiakisland

December 21, 2008, 07:14:40 pm #9 Last Edit: December 21, 2008, 08:02:32 pm by kodiakisland
Quote from: jep_hog_fan on December 21, 2008, 05:21:43 pm
How many deer are in Arkansas? How many people have not seen a deer in Arkansas? I know of plenty.

How many people post on Hogville? How many people on here have said they have seen cougars? Small percentage.

I've noticed the same thing.  Having lived and hunted in states that really do have mnt lions, I'm amazed how many people here have seen them or heard them.  Who doesn't know someone who claims to have seen or heard one?
Most people I know in Colorado have never seen one, even people who spend a lot of time in the woods hunting deer and elk.  One killed a deer on the playground at my kids school one time.  Most people that lived there didn't even know mnt lions lived there, much less seen them.

I'm not saying Arkansas doesn't have any, but the numbers would not support all the sightings.
If gun control worked, Chicago would look like Mayberry, not Thunderdome. http://heyjackass.com/

hogdiggity

Quote from: kodiakisland on December 21, 2008, 07:14:40 pm
I've noticed the same thing.  Having lived and hunted in states that really do have mnt lions, I'm amazed how many people here have seen them or heard them.  Who doesn't know someone who claims to have seen or heard one?
Most people I know in Colorado have never seen one, even people who spend a lot of time in the woods hunting deer and elk.  One killed a deer on the playground at my kids school one time.  Most people that lived there didn't even know mnt lions lived there, much less seen them.

I'm not saying Arkansas doesn't have any, but the numbers would not support all the sightings.

possibly one difference in say Colorado is most of thier population is in poplulation centers, Denver, Colorado Springs, and other big cities, the rest of it is very sparsely populated, a big ranch here, another one 20 miles down the road.  In Arkansas, the majority of the population is rural, a lot of small towns with a lot of people living in "the country". 

I am one of those that say they have seen panthers/cougars in Ark, albiet it has been 20 years since my last encounter with one.  I do know a farmer that has chicken houses and cows that swears he has one roaming his place right now and has lost animals to it.  I think especially in south Ark, they get moved around a lot by logging operations, so that too may explain why they get seen by more people. 

sooieet

The pictures that Ch. 11 showed the other night were definitely a large house cat.  It's movements didn't look anything at all like a big cat. 

Verge

Probably a house cat, or a runaway from some private redneck that attempted to keep it as a pet.


Mountain Lions are only rumored to be black, i don't think a single specimin has ever been found. Jaguars used to live as far north as texas, and maybe in florida. But they are all dead, and it's way to cold up here right now.

 

jkstock04

Quote from: jep_hog_fan on December 21, 2008, 05:21:43 pm
How many deer are in Arkansas? How many people have not seen a deer in Arkansas? I know of plenty.

Are you serious??  You would either have to live underground, be bed-ridden, or be blind for this to be possible.
Thanks for the F Shack. 

Love,

Dirty Mike and the Boys

twistitup

December 26, 2008, 05:30:50 pm #14 Last Edit: December 26, 2008, 05:32:23 pm by twistitup
Verge, you are wrong to think that there are no black panthers in the Northern Texas and Southern AR areas. Many have been seen, even in the last few months where I am from in far NE Texas.

We killed one in '00 that chased our pet geese onto the back porch of our house. We shot him out the back door and tossed his body into a field behind our place. Weighed about 60# and was tail to nose 4.5' long.

Solid black, muscular, thick fur - Not a house cat...

As a matter of fact, we were not that shocked because we had seen him several times before killing him. I think he was attracted to our farm by easy eating (geese)
How you gonna win when you ain't right within?

Here I am again mixing misery and gin....

jkstock04

Quote from: twistitup on December 26, 2008, 05:30:50 pm
Verge, you are wrong to think that there are no black panthers in the Northern Texas and Southern AR areas. Many have been seen, even in the last few months where I am from in far NE Texas.

We killed one in '00 that chased our pet geese onto the back porch of our house. We shot him out the back door and tossed his body into a field behind our place. Weighed about 60# and was tail to nose 4.5' long.

Solid black, muscular, thick fur - Not a house cat...

As a matter of fact, we were not that shocked because we had seen him several times before killing him. I think he was attracted to our farm by easy eating (geese)
Cool deal, did you get some good pictures of him?
Thanks for the F Shack. 

Love,

Dirty Mike and the Boys

kodiakisland

Quote from: hogdiggity on December 22, 2008, 07:23:12 am
possibly one difference in say Colorado is most of thier population is in poplulation centers, Denver, Colorado Springs, and other big cities, the rest of it is very sparsely populated, a big ranch here, another one 20 miles down the road.  In Arkansas, the majority of the population is rural, a lot of small towns with a lot of people living in "the country". 

I am one of those that say they have seen panthers/cougars in Ark, albiet it has been 20 years since my last encounter with one.  I do know a farmer that has chicken houses and cows that swears he has one roaming his place right now and has lost animals to it.  I think especially in south Ark, they get moved around a lot by logging operations, so that too may explain why they get seen by more people. 

The population density could have something to do with it, but there were plenty of cats living around Colorado Springs and they were rarely ever seen.  I know a lot of people in Arkansas who have claimed to seen a mtn lion here, but have never seen a bear or bobcat.  There are a lot more bear and bobcat than mnt lion, so it makes me wonder.

Quote from: twistitup on December 26, 2008, 05:30:50 pm
Verge, you are wrong to think that there are no black panthers in the Northern Texas and Southern AR areas. Many have been seen, even in the last few months where I am from in far NE Texas.

We killed one in '00 that chased our pet geese onto the back porch of our house. We shot him out the back door and tossed his body into a field behind our place. Weighed about 60# and was tail to nose 4.5' long.

Solid black, muscular, thick fur - Not a house cat...

As a matter of fact, we were not that shocked because we had seen him several times before killing him. I think he was attracted to our farm by easy eating (geese)

Black panthers are either black colored jaguars or black leopards.  There would be no wild leopards in North America and the chances of finding a black jaguar is small, even where there are a lot of jaguars.  What are the odds that the rare jaguar who would ever come this far north would also be a rare black one?  There is no such thing as a black mountain lion.

Almost all black panthers are pets released or escaped into the wild.  They are usually found in town or near houses because they associate people with food.
If gun control worked, Chicago would look like Mayberry, not Thunderdome. http://heyjackass.com/

twistitup

December 27, 2008, 07:03:33 am #17 Last Edit: December 27, 2008, 07:05:18 am by twistitup
Mr Kodiak,
I have seen a large black cat (puma, panther, jaguar), whatever you want to call it, dead on my back porch. You are still telling me they don't exist? Not just has my family seen several; farmers from the surrounding area have seen the same.

People in NE Texas are not known for raising wild cats and releasing them into the wild - if you believe all the cats that have been seen are domesticated or 'semi' wild cats you are wrong.

In the area I grew up there are cats (a breeding population- since I have personally seen them as early as 1992) and I firmly believe that they are now in Southern Arkansas. Why would they not expand their territory from far NE Texas to South AR?

Click below to see big cats in Illinois - they are not supposed to be there either!!
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.thejump.net/multimedia/cougar/webcat1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.thejump.net/multimedia/cougar/index.htm&h=240&w=320&sz=12&tbnid=eG6hiorbNM1m8M::&tbnh=89&tbnw=118&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dnorth%2Bamerican%2Bblack%2Bpanther%2Bpictures&hl=en&usg=__L-hsqNvOhEfYT29YBvKUMw9Xbb0=&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=4&ct=image&cd=1
How you gonna win when you ain't right within?

Here I am again mixing misery and gin....

Albert Einswine

Quote from: twistitup on December 27, 2008, 07:03:33 am


Click below to see big cats in Illinois - they are not supposed to be there either!!
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.thejump.net/multimedia/cougar/webcat1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.thejump.net/multimedia/cougar/index.htm&h=240&w=320&sz=12&tbnid=eG6hiorbNM1m8M::&tbnh=89&tbnw=118&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dnorth%2Bamerican%2Bblack%2Bpanther%2Bpictures&hl=en&usg=__L-hsqNvOhEfYT29YBvKUMw9Xbb0=&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=4&ct=image&cd=1



It looks like a housecat and moves like a housecat.  My suspicion is that it's a housecat.
"Funny thing, I become a hell of a good fisherman when the trout decide to commit suicide." ~ John D. Voelker

twistitup

moves like a cat, yes...housecat? I don't know about that one.

That is not the size of any domesticated cat I have ever encountered.
How you gonna win when you ain't right within?

Here I am again mixing misery and gin....

kodiakisland

Quote from: twistitup on December 27, 2008, 07:03:33 am
Mr Kodiak,
I have seen a large black cat (puma, panther, jaguar), whatever you want to call it, dead on my back porch. You are still telling me they don't exist? Not just has my family seen several; farmers from the surrounding area have seen the same.

People in NE Texas are not known for raising wild cats and releasing them into the wild - if you believe all the cats that have been seen are domesticated or 'semi' wild cats you are wrong.

In the area I grew up there are cats (a breeding population- since I have personally seen them as early as 1992) and I firmly believe that they are now in Southern Arkansas. Why would they not expand their territory from far NE Texas to South AR?

Click below to see big cats in Illinois - they are not supposed to be there either!!
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.thejump.net/multimedia/cougar/webcat1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.thejump.net/multimedia/cougar/index.htm&h=240&w=320&sz=12&tbnid=eG6hiorbNM1m8M::&tbnh=89&tbnw=118&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dnorth%2Bamerican%2Bblack%2Bpanther%2Bpictures&hl=en&usg=__L-hsqNvOhEfYT29YBvKUMw9Xbb0=&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=4&ct=image&cd=1

No.  What I'm saying is it was more than likely someones pet at sometime.  Wild cats do not hang around on back porches.  Black jaguars are rare even where there are a lot of them.  Black leopards are common animals in the exotic pet trade and get dumped once the cuteness wears off.

In the 80's, there was a guy around Ashdown who raised large cats and they were always getting out or he was releasing them.  Just because they were in the woods didn't make them wild.
If gun control worked, Chicago would look like Mayberry, not Thunderdome. http://heyjackass.com/

Albert Einswine

Quote from: twistitup on December 27, 2008, 07:57:01 am
moves like a cat, yes...housecat? I don't know about that one.

That is not the size of any domesticated cat I have ever encountered.


You can't tell the size of the cat from the video. 
"Funny thing, I become a hell of a good fisherman when the trout decide to commit suicide." ~ John D. Voelker

twistitup

December 27, 2008, 08:31:34 am #22 Last Edit: December 27, 2008, 09:04:22 am by twistitup
Albert,
based on the background you can tell the approx. size of the cat. You can see the cat in perspective of the trees and grass around it. Look at the proportions of the cat...Length, build, tail size, etc..

That is no domesticated cat!
How you gonna win when you ain't right within?

Here I am again mixing misery and gin....

twistitup

Kodiak,

He was on the back porch chasing food (pet geese). He caught one of them the previous night. He was not just hanging around my back porch...and our house is not in the city somewhere. It is 12 miles from the nearest town- this was not the only cat in the area - there are more! A breeding population....
How you gonna win when you ain't right within?

Here I am again mixing misery and gin....

 

twistitup

How you gonna win when you ain't right within?

Here I am again mixing misery and gin....

kodiakisland

Quote from: twistitup on December 27, 2008, 08:34:33 am
Kodiak,

He was on the back porch chasing food (pet geese). He caught one of them the previous night. He was not just hanging around my back porch...and our house is not in the city somewhere. It is 12 miles from the nearest town- this was not the only cat in the area - there are more! A breeding population....

Millwood lake used to have a breeding population of monkeys.  Doesn't mean they migrated there from Africa.
If gun control worked, Chicago would look like Mayberry, not Thunderdome. http://heyjackass.com/

twistitup

Kodiak,

Your right. The large black cat we shot must of been let go by one of the many exotic pet owners in rural NE Texas where people can barely afford to put gas in their cars....

Damn those exotic pet owners!
How you gonna win when you ain't right within?

Here I am again mixing misery and gin....

kodiakisland

December 27, 2008, 09:53:37 am #27 Last Edit: December 27, 2008, 09:56:12 am by kodiakisland
Quote from: twistitup on December 27, 2008, 09:50:50 am
Kodiak,

Your right. The large black cat we shot must of been let go by one of the many exotic pet owners in rural NE Texas where people can barely afford to put gas in their cars....

Damn those exotic pet owners!

No, I'm sure your porch cat was one of a group of rare black jaguars who migrated from the rain forests of central america to escape the oppresive governments so often found there.
If gun control worked, Chicago would look like Mayberry, not Thunderdome. http://heyjackass.com/

RunnerHog

Quote from: Hogjawls on December 17, 2008, 07:34:49 pm
They showed it on video.
Looked about 3 ft. long with long tail.
Ch.11 showed the trap with meat set for it.

A couple of things, that was not a "Black Panther" there are no black Panthers in North America besides the one in zoo's.  Anyone saying they have seen one is either having hallucinations or delusions or at a zoo.

Second putting "meat out" is not going to work. Cougar's are site hunters, they don't hunt with their nose.  In other words if it ain't running the cougar ain't hunting it. 

twistitup

runnerhog,
you can see one in texas on a trail cam if you click the link in an above post. You too can hallucinate.
How you gonna win when you ain't right within?

Here I am again mixing misery and gin....

RunnerHog

December 27, 2008, 10:50:04 am #30 Last Edit: December 27, 2008, 10:53:13 am by RunnerHog
Quote from: twistitup on December 27, 2008, 10:47:00 am
runnerhog,
you can see one in texas on a trail cam if you click the link in an above post. You too can hallucinate.

You have a eye doctor down there?  You need to go see him.

Another thing, that cat is not black and it is a super imposed pic. The guy could of at least used a picture of a Black Panther to make his pic.

twistitup

I'm not down there any longer, but we did shoot one at our place in Texas.

I guess I hallucinated as I picked up his carcass and threw it into a field as well. It was solid black and was not a house cat~

How you gonna win when you ain't right within?

Here I am again mixing misery and gin....

RunnerHog

Quote from: twistitup on December 27, 2008, 10:52:44 am
I'm not down there any longer, but we did shoot one at our place in Texas.

I guess I hallucinated as I picked up his carcass and threw it into a field as well. It was solid black and was not a house cat~

No, you're just full of BS.

Here is a little info for you from Wikipedia

There are no authenticated cases of truly melanistic cougars. Black cougars have been reported in Kentucky and in the Carolinas. There have also been reports of glossy black cougars from Kansas, Texas and eastern Nebraska. These have come to be known as the North American black panther. None have ever been photographed or shot in the wild and none have been bred. There is wide consensus among breeders and biologists that the animal does not exist and is a cryptid. Sightings are currently attributed to errors in species identification by non-experts, and by the memetic exaggeration of size.

Get the point

twistitup

Wikipedia - there you go using all of that reliable information.

Point is, I know they exist and don't need anyone to confirm it for me!
How you gonna win when you ain't right within?

Here I am again mixing misery and gin....

jkstock04

Twistitup, since u never replied to me I'm gonna have to assume you didn't take any pictures of this black panther u or your family killed.  I'm not gonna say you are lying or anything like that.....

but it is a little unbelivable that u didn't take any pictures of this thing if it was laying there dead.  The camera would be the first thing I grabbed if I killed one of these things at my house.
Thanks for the F Shack. 

Love,

Dirty Mike and the Boys

RunnerHog

Quote from: twistitup on December 27, 2008, 11:03:50 am
Wikipedia - there you go using all of that reliable information.

Point is, I know they exist and don't need anyone to confirm it for me!

Whatever, what were you smoking at the time?

twistitup

December 27, 2008, 11:12:43 am #36 Last Edit: December 27, 2008, 11:15:06 am by twistitup
internet posting of pics is somewhat of a new phenomenon.

No, we did not run and grab a camera when we killed this cat in the mid 90's. I also don't have pictures of any other animals I have killed, guess that means I've never killed anything.

Guess I'm not cool, sorry guys....

How you gonna win when you ain't right within?

Here I am again mixing misery and gin....

RunnerHog

Quote from: twistitup on December 27, 2008, 11:12:43 am
internet posting of pics is somewhat of a new phenomenon.

No, we did not run and grab a camera when we killed this cat in the mid 90's. I also don't have pictures of any other animals I have killed. Guess I'm not cool....

If this had been a Grizzly Bear or the Loch Ness monster or maybe Bigfoot would you of taken a picture?  All of those are just as likely to be in Texas as a black Panther.

twistitup

Your comparing Big Foot to a black panther.....unbelievable ~ you may be the one who needs to get a grip. Big Foot has never existed, are you saying there is no such thing as a black panther?
How you gonna win when you ain't right within?

Here I am again mixing misery and gin....

RunnerHog

Quote from: twistitup on December 27, 2008, 11:17:27 am
Your comparing Big Foot to a black panther.....unbelievable ~ you may be the one who needs to get a grip. Big Foot has never existed, are you saying there is no such thing as a black panther?

There is no such thing as a black panther in Texas.  Have you shot a bigfoot down there?  How about a Grizzly Bear?

jkstock04

Quote from: twistitup on December 27, 2008, 11:12:43 am
internet posting of pics is somewhat of a new phenomenon.

No, we did not run and grab a camera when we killed this cat in the mid 90's. I also don't have pictures of any other animals I have killed, guess that means I've never killed anything.

Guess I'm not cool, sorry guys....
I didn't say you weren't cool...just saying with something this seemingly rare that "doesn't exist" you would grab the camera and snap some pics of it regardless of what decade it was.  If I killed an armadillow hell no I wouldn't take any pics of it...they're everywhere running rampant...but a black panther?  See what I'm getting at?  Are they really so common in that area that a picture of one shot dead wouldn't raise an eyebrow?

Thanks for the F Shack. 

Love,

Dirty Mike and the Boys

twistitup

December 27, 2008, 11:26:15 am #41 Last Edit: December 27, 2008, 11:29:02 am by twistitup
You don't understand. You're not the first one to tell me I didn't see anything. I have had the game and fish tell me there are not cougars in the area either even though we have seen several and had a footprint in the mud to show them.

It's ok that you think I am full of BS. But, it does not change the facts. There are cougars and large black cats (panthers) in NE Texas and Southern AR.

How you gonna win when you ain't right within?

Here I am again mixing misery and gin....

RunnerHog

Quote from: twistitup on December 27, 2008, 11:26:15 am
You don't understand. You're not the first one to tell me I didn't see anything. I have had the game and fish tell me there are not cougars in the area either even though we have seen several and had a footprint in the mud to show them.

It's ok that you think I am full of BS. But, it does not change the facts. There are cougars and large black cats (panthers) in NE Texas and Southern AR.

Now it's large black cats and cougars.  No one is saying there are not cougars in that area.  No Black Panthers.

twistitup

December 27, 2008, 11:30:47 am #43 Last Edit: December 27, 2008, 02:47:24 pm by twistitup
Both...and I am serious about this. Large Cougars and Large Black Cats (call them what you want- panthers, puma, very large house cat?, etc...but the one we killed was much larger than a regular cat)
How you gonna win when you ain't right within?

Here I am again mixing misery and gin....

jkstock04

Quote from: twistitup on December 27, 2008, 11:26:15 am
You don't understand. You're not the first one to tell me I didn't see anything. I have had the game and fish tell me there are not cougars in the area either even though we have seen several and had a footprint in the mud to show them.

It's ok that you think I am full of BS. But, it does not change the facts. There are cougars and large black cats (panthers) in NE Texas and Southern AR.
No...I actually do believe you.  But I do think it sucks that you didnt take any pictures of this thing.  I've never seen one, but a couple of my buddies have. 

It's common knowledge that people used to have these things as pets and turned them loose when it became illegal to have them as pets.  In my mind that is 100% for sure the source of these sightings...that doesn't make them any less wild however.  The same thing has happened with wild hogs only they weren't really pets but livestock.
Thanks for the F Shack. 

Love,

Dirty Mike and the Boys


philobeddoe

OK, let me ask a dumb question that has probably been answered here before.  What's the difference between a black cougar and a black panther.  I have seen a large Mtn. Lion/Cougar/Panther.  Me and my apprentice (electrical), were driving on the highway between Strong and Huttig and saw it cross the road.  I'm not 100% sure whether or not it was black since it was just breaking dawn, but it was definitely a large cat that looke to be around 7 or 8 feet in length from the tip of the tail to the tip of the nose.

A-Town Hog Fan

Quote from: RunnerHog on December 27, 2008, 10:19:36 am
A couple of things, that was not a "Black Panther" there are no black Panthers in North America besides the one in zoo's.  Anyone saying they have seen one is either having hallucinations or delusions or at a zoo.

Second putting "meat out" is not going to work. Cougar's are site hunters, they don't hunt with their nose.  In other words if it ain't running the cougar ain't hunting it. 

There are black panthers in the Florida Everglades. 
Lord help us all!

hogdiggity

December 27, 2008, 01:23:23 pm #48 Last Edit: December 27, 2008, 01:28:26 pm by hogdiggity
Quote from: philobeddoe on December 27, 2008, 11:47:37 am
OK, let me ask a dumb question that has probably been answered here before.  What's the difference between a black cougar and a black panther.  I have seen a large Mtn. Lion/Cougar/Panther.  Me and my apprentice (electrical), were driving on the highway between Strong and Huttig and saw it cross the road.  I'm not 100% sure whether or not it was black since it was just breaking dawn, but it was definitely a large cat that looke to be around 7 or 8 feet in length from the tip of the tail to the tip of the nose.

Not a dumb question.  A black version is just a different color variation.  It is called a melanistic color variation, it can happen in most wild cats, even bobcats.   

Color variations happen in animals, I have seen black squirrels, I'm sure others have too. You just need the right mixture of recessive genes for it to happen.

twistitup

Phil,
I don't know exactly what the difference is, but what hogdiggity said sounds correct. But, I am sure that both the black and brown/tan varieties exist in the same areas. I just call the black ones panthers because thats what they appear to be. I call the brown/tan ones Cougars because that's what they look like.

Honestly, they might be from the same species of cats, just different colors. Where I am from most farmers will shoot cougars (brown/tan variety), but they hesitate when talking about shooting a black one because they worry it may be 'protected' and they will get into trouble.
How you gonna win when you ain't right within?

Here I am again mixing misery and gin....