Ouch...

[Al Boarland]

Cole Cubelic‏Verified account @colecubelic  18m18 minutes ago
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"For a college offensive lineman to be held out of contact in the spring to protect him is just ridiculous"

- @geoffschwartz on @CubeShow

Didn't know much about this Schwartz guy, but apparently he spent a number of years in the NFL.  Everyone has an opinion, I suppose.

Geoff Schwartz Verified account
@geoffschwartz
8 year NFL Offensive Lineman | Host of The @BlockEmUp Podcast.

[go hogues]

If we were three deep with 5* talent across the line, like so many of the teams these talking heads salivate over, he's right, it would be ridiculous. However, since we barely have enough talent there to have a serviceable first team, I don't blame them for holding him out. It was also probably a condition of his return to the team.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

That's not an "ouch" or any indictment of our program. It is just what you said it was, an opinion.

Also, keeping Ragnow out of scrimmages really gave the back-up Centers a lot of experience at reading defensive fronts and calling out blocking assignments and thereby developing greater experienced depth. I think we needed that. But that is just another opinion.

[Al Boarland]

If we were three deep with 5* talent across the line, like so many of the teams these talking heads salivate over, he's right, it would be ridiculous. However, since we barely have enough talent there to have a serviceable first team, I don't blame them for holding him out. It was also probably a condition of his return to the team.

Yeah, it will be something to follow.  If he struggles this season you could make the case that sitting out the spring was a bad move.

[jry04]

Cole Cubelic‏Verified account @colecubelic  18m18 minutes ago
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"For a college offensive lineman to be held out of contact in the spring to protect him is just ridiculous"

- @geoffschwartz on @CubeShow

Didn't know much about this Schwartz guy, but apparently he spent a number of years in the NFL.  Everyone has an opinion, I suppose.

Geoff Schwartz Verified account
@geoffschwartz
8 year NFL Offensive Lineman | Host of The @BlockEmUp Podcast.

These people hear Ragnow is held out of scrimmages and assumes he is just sitting on the sideline every practice. He went through contact drills, he just did not participate in contact scrimmages.

For anyone who watched the spring practice Saturday, they reported how Ragnow dominated the 1 on 1 contact drills and none of the DLinemen could move him earlier in the week. He has taken hits this spring, just not in a scrimmage where his chance for injury goes up. This will be his 4th year playing in the SEC, and is potentially the best C in the country. If being hold out of a few scrimmages 4 months before the season starts is going to hurt his game, then he probably is not as good as we thought. He is as experienced as a college center at this level can be, and him sitting has helped us build our depth behind him.

[King Kong]

Sitting Ragnow was the right move IMO

[Hoggish1]

Cole Cubelic‏Verified account @colecubelic  18m18 minutes ago
More
"For a college offensive lineman to be held out of contact in the spring to protect him is just ridiculous"

- @geoffschwartz on @CubeShow

Didn't know much about this Schwartz guy, but apparently he spent a number of years in the NFL.  Everyone has an opinion, I suppose.

Geoff Schwartz Verified account
@geoffschwartz
8 year NFL Offensive Lineman | Host of The @BlockEmUp Podcast.

Ouch?  I assume you meant yawn...

[OneTuskOverTheLine™]

Yeah, it will be something to follow.  If he struggles this season you could make the case that sitting out the spring was a bad move.

And that's what sooooo many on here live for. They sit back and look ahead working up their arguments for why we were less than perfect, and trap shoot at the first opportunity. Congratulations to whomever remembers this for the first Center/QB exchange problem next season...!!

[Hog Fan...DOH!]

Must. Talk. About. Something. 

[Hawgar The Horrible]

Ouch? Really?

LMAO

[Al Boarland]

And that's what sooooo many on here live for. They sit back and look ahead working up their arguments for why we were less than perfect, and trap shoot at the first opportunity. Congratulations to whomever remembers this for the first Center/QB exchange problem next season...!!

I think it's perfectly fine to evaluate decisions made over the course of a year to identify causes for coming up short.  I sure hope that's what the staff does.

[The_Iceman]

When Zach Rogers is the starting Center in 2018, coaches will look back to this Spring as when he was able to get a big jump forward in terms of development.

[rljjr]

Yeah, it will be something to follow.  If he struggles this season you could make the case that sitting out the spring was a bad move.

No. No you can't. Not with the way he has played in his career up to now. It's 15 spring practices where he isn't in the "scrimmage" portions. He's still getting contact drills. If it was Froholdt then you might have a case, but KnarfWongar has everything wrapped up tight.

[PORKULATOR]

That's not an "ouch" or any indictment of our program. It is just what you said it was, an opinion.

Also, keeping Ragnow out of scrimmages really gave the back-up Centers a lot of experience at reading defensive fronts and calling out blocking assignments and thereby developing greater experienced depth. I think we needed that. But that is just another opinion.

and a crap opinion at that.

[factchecker]

First off, Ragnow hasn't been held out of contact. He was only held out of scrimmage situations. Do our "fans" not know what the f is going on?  Do you not see the videos of practice where Frank is working drills in full pads and initiating contact?

Here is one video:

https://twitter.com/RazorbackFB/status/849420039128330244

Frank is involved in contact the whole time..... he even whiffs on a release and hits the ground.  We don't have him wrapped in bubble wrap.  He isn't sitting on the sideline posting on Hogville during practice.

I remember plenty of "fans" complain when J-Will got hurt. Nothing but constant bitching about how he shouldn't have been practicing.

I've also heard a mega ton of bitching about how this staff doesn't prepare it's backups.

We let Ragnow sit out of scrimmage situations..... not contact ----- scrimmages to protect him for the future.  We also have used this chance to get our backup's ready at the center position and we have "fans" bitching about this?

OUCH indeed.

[ricepig]

Yeah, it will be something to follow.  If he struggles this season you could make the case that sitting out the spring was a bad move.

You get back with us when that "struggling" happens, haha.

[factchecker]

You know who else sat out during scrimmage situations before his senior season?

This guy:

[thebignasty]

Al boarland is really taking it on the chin here. Feel for the guy.

[Hawgar The Horrible]

Still drunk?

http://whnt.com/2012/10/19/cole-cubelic-arrested-charged-with-dui/

[Boarcephus]

Would he hold the same belief had he suffered a career ending injury in spring practice and never got the chance to play in the NFL?  I suspect he wouldn't. 

[bphi11ips]

If we were three deep with 5* talent across the line, like so many of the teams these talking heads salivate over, he's right, it would be ridiculous. However, since we barely have enough talent there to have a serviceable first team, I don't blame them for holding him out. It was also probably a condition of his return to the team.

Ragnow doesn't seem like the type to put conditions on anything.

Where the line is concerned, we may not have 5 star talent, but we never have and never will.  On the other hand, we have more 4 star talent than I can remember in the O-line.  We have some big bodies that a lot of other great teams wanted.  Depth shouldn't be an issue on the line.  I still don't understand the year-long experiment with Froholdt.  Hope it doesn't turn into a three-year experiment unless he starts to learn the position and plays better with his eyes and feet.  Otherwise, Allen is going to spend a lot of time on his back again.   

[factchecker]

Would he hold the same belief had he suffered a career ending injury in spring practice and never got the chance to play in the NFL?  I suspect he wouldn't.

No and the over/under of threads blaming Bielema for ruining his career would be set at about 1000.

[LZH]

Yeah, it will be something to follow.  If he struggles this season you could make the case that sitting out the spring was a bad move.

It isn't like he spent all 15 spring practices in a lawn chair on the sideline eating ding dongs.

[HoopS]

Bielema has developed a few linemen in his day. I'll defer to his expertise.

[Biggus Piggus]

Treatment of the player reveals how important is the player to the team.

If you feel like your team would lose a ton if the player were injured, then you don't put the player into situations where something unpredictable could happen. Like someone falling on his ankle/foot in a pile.

This is a statement about how much better Ragnow is than anyone behind him.

[Steef]

Treatment of the player reveals how important is the player to the team.

If you feel like your team would lose a ton if the player were injured, then you don't put the player into situations where something unpredictable could happen. Like someone falling on his ankle/foot in a pile.

This is a statement about how much better Ragnow is than anyone behind him.

If it doesnt get Ragnow killed, then it was a great idea.

[NotSoFastMyFriend]

Al boarland is really taking it on the chin here. Feel for the guy.

Don't. He always posts the same garbage with the expected results.

[NotSoFastMyFriend]

If it doesnt get Ragnow killed, then it was a great idea.

*actual lol* Too true.

[TeedupHigh]

CBB:  darned IF HE DOES, darned IF HE DOESN'T!  Poor bastard can't catch a break, HOGS R one snakebite team!!

[Al Boarland]

Don't. He always posts the same garbage with the expected results.

I guess what constitutes garbage these days is well thought out, accurate opinions based on relevant data.  Feel free to take any of my posts you disagree with and show me where I am wrong or even could be wrong.  I'm not really familiar with your posts, so I won't throw any insults your way.

[GoHogzzGo]

Yawn. As many have posted already Ragnow wasn't held out of all contact just specific game simulations and certain contact. Him playing in a scrimmage is the least of our worries.

[hawgmasta]

Ragnow probably would've been our highest draft pick THiS year if he decided to leave. I think he's gonna be just fine.

[LRRandy]

We let Ragnow sit out of scrimmage situations..... not contact ----- scrimmages to protect him for the future.  We also have used this chance to get our backup's ready at the center position and we have "fans" bitching about this?

OUCH indeed.

exactly this. There is a coach at a top college program that has a 2,000 rep club. A player that has accumulated that many reps in practice and games over the course of his career at any position, does not scrimmage. It does just what you state. Protects from injury. Gives reps to less experienced teammates. Saves wear and tear on a proven player. This is, in my opinion, exactly what BB did with Ragnow.

[Vantage 8 dude]

That's not an "ouch" or any indictment of our program. It is just what you said it was, an opinion.

Also, keeping Ragnow out of scrimmages really gave the back-up Centers a lot of experience at reading defensive fronts and calling out blocking assignments and thereby developing greater experienced depth. I think we needed that. But that is just another opinion.

Personally I think it was definitely directed at trying to develop greater quality depth. Look, we ALL know what Ragnow can do. It's most certainly NOT like he's an unknown quantity or doesn't know the playbook/schemes or have substantial game experience. So realizing that I'll bet that CBB opted to use the spring practice period to build up the reps of others by working them with the rest of the starting line. In other words, sometimes the easy "well it's merely about wanting to avoid injuries" excuse is total bunk. In this case I think this is exactly what was at work.

In the end let CBB and the staff do their jobs. Sitting behind a desk and making public pronouncements on what this coach or that coach should do takes no work at all; that is except to work your gums. Adds totally no value; then again, who could have guessed that

[daBoar]

It might have been an "ouch" last Spring; perhaps a better ouch would have been holding out Agim this Spring.

[LZH]

Like I said Saturday, I really didn't expect to see RWIII out there much, either.  Thought BB would give Maleek and Hammonds more reps.  But, it did occur to me later that maybe he wanted his top guns out there to give our new defense (especially our front seven) the best look at what they'll see this fall.  Better evaluation for this summer.

[flagstaffhog]

Sitting Ragnow was the right move IMO

Bingo!

[WizardofhOgZ]

I'd much rather he be held out of a meaningless spring drill/game than a Bowl game.  As you guys know, a handful of players sat out on their fellow players in Bowl games this past season, but it didn't seem to hurt their Draft status, did it?

Sour grapes by Cubelic.

[WilsonHog]

Here's my question. Feel free to weigh in.

Assume for purposes of argument that Frank does have an down year.

Would one of y'all like to take a stab as to how in the blue hell that can be traced, with any degree of certainty, to not having more contact during spring practice?

[The Kig]

Practice?  We talkin bout Practice?  C'mon man!  practice is designed to get players to consistently play at a high level.  The longer it takes get there,the more times you practice the same thing over and over. When you "get there" it's time to build depth.  Willing to bet Frank was engaged and "coaching" the whole time. 

My guess is many of those complaining about this will also be complaining about why RWIII was in the scrimmage.

[Pork Ranger]

I mean, does he understand how fragile our feet are here at Arkansas?

[Steef]

Here's my question. Feel free to weigh in.

Assume for purposes of argument that Frank does have an down year.

Would one of y'all like to take a stab as to how in the blue hell that can be traced, with any degree of certainty, to not having more contact during spring practice?

Let me start by saying... Im on the fence about this. Dont feel strongly either way, from a readiness POV. Do think... it telegraphs to our opponents, who they should try to hurt. Ragnow is the one player the Hogs think they cannot afford to lose.

But from a purely "debate" POV...to answer your question....muscle memory.

Every physical sport requires it. Golfers live or die by it, which is why they hate to alter their swing.

Muscle memory requires repetition ...and CAN (easily) diminish over time.

If Frank does lose a step, that will probably be the reason.

[ricepig]

Let me start by saying... Im on the fence about this. Dont feel strongly either way, from a readiness POV. Do think... it telegraphs to our opponents, who they should try to hurt. Ragnow is the one player the Hogs think they cannot afford to lose.

But from a purely "debate" POV...to answer your question....muscle memory.

Every physical sport requires it. Golfers live or die by it, which is why they hate to alter their swing.

Muscle memory requires repetition ...and CAN (easily) diminish over time.

If Frank does lose a step, that will probably be the reason.

I doubt missing a couple of scrimmages would make one lose their muscle memory of snapping a ball, or making a block, lol. Do you lose your muscle memory if you sit out a couple of days due to an injury, but still play the game on Saturday? If so, how do hundreds of players manage to play on Saturday and Sunday's?

[HamSammich]

First off, Ragnow hasn't been held out of contact. He was only held out of scrimmage situations. Do our "fans" not know what the f is going on?  Do you not see the videos of practice where Frank is working drills in full pads and initiating contact?

Here is one video:

https://twitter.com/RazorbackFB/status/849420039128330244

Frank is involved in contact the whole time..... he even whiffs on a release and hits the ground.  We don't have him wrapped in bubble wrap.  He isn't sitting on the sideline posting on Hogville during practice.

I remember plenty of "fans" complain when J-Will got hurt. Nothing but constant bitching about how he shouldn't have been practicing.

I've also heard a mega ton of bitching about how this staff doesn't prepare it's backups.

We let Ragnow sit out of scrimmage situations..... not contact ----- scrimmages to protect him for the future.  We also have used this chance to get our backup's ready at the center position and we have "fans" bitching about this?

OUCH indeed.

Triggered easily. Amusing.



Opinions don't hurt real men. I don't agree with the opinion but meh whatever.

[HamSammich]

Here's my question. Feel free to weigh in.

Assume for purposes of argument that Frank does have an down year.

Would one of y'all like to take a stab as to how in the blue hell that can be traced, with any degree of certainty, to not having more contact during spring practice?

He in no way will have a down year.


He is actually 4 years away from reaching his potential imo. Silly thread but fun reading

[Hawgar The Horrible]

Let me start by saying... Im on the fence about this. Dont feel strongly either way, from a readiness POV. Do think... it telegraphs to our opponents, who they should try to hurt. Ragnow is the one player the Hogs think they cannot afford to lose.

But from a purely "debate" POV...to answer your question....muscle memory.

Every physical sport requires it. Golfers live or die by it, which is why they hate to alter their swing.

Muscle memory requires repetition ...and CAN (easily) diminish over time.

If Frank does lose a step, that will probably be the reason.

Hoe Lee Crap. You're reaching. I mean hole in a box, peanut, monkey forming a fist type reaching.

[Mike_e]

Ooooor somebody could accidentally fall on your ankle causing you to need pins in it to keep it together.

There's some mussel memory for you that you won't forget.

Things happen.  Random chance is augmented by repetition.  As the late great Jim Croce said, "you don't tug on superman's cape, you don't spit into the wind..."

[FANONTHEHILL]

I attended 11 of the 15 practices this spring in their entirety. Frank did everything in every drill, including team periods, with the exception of live play drills.  There were three live scrimmages and he was held out of those.  During the live drill periods he was a coach.  During position drills he was the #1 center and then watched and coached the younger lineman.  Clenin, Wagner, and Adcock got better this spring because Frank was in their ear all the time and in their face when he needed to be.  After each practice, after the team met with Coach Anderson for the review of the day, Frank took the Oline to the side and worked them for 5-10 minutes more to correct errors that he saw during the day. 

Frank was unanimous choice to be a captain for the team.  Others that will replace Frank in 2018 got vital reps. He came out of spring healthy.  He is the leader that teammates will look to when something goes wrong this fall.  That's what was missing last year.  The writer forms an opinion about what he thinks is best for this program.  I don't agree, but it's his opinion. I do think that someone who is not part of the program and doesn't know Frank Ragnow or the coaches intentions, has an uninformed opinion.  But again, uninformed opinions are what Hogville thrives upon.

[Steef]

Hoe Lee Crap. You're reaching. I mean hole in a box, peanut, monkey forming a fist type reaching.

Did you at all pay attention to me being "on the fence"? Or just "purely debating"? I dont really about this topic's controversy one bit.

Wilson posed a hypothetical question. I gave a (very reasonable) hypothetical answer.

If you dont think muscle memory is important to an athlete, then you've never been an athlete.

[Youngsta71701]

Let me start by saying... Im on the fence about this. Dont feel strongly either way, from a readiness POV. Do think... it telegraphs to our opponents, who they should try to hurt. Ragnow is the one player the Hogs think they cannot afford to lose.

But from a purely "debate" POV...to answer your question....muscle memory.

Every physical sport requires it. Golfers live or die by it, which is why they hate to alter their swing.

Muscle memory requires repetition ...and CAN (easily) diminish over time.

If Frank does lose a step, that will probably be the reason.

Guys, Big Frank did everything this spring except for the actual scrimmages. It's not big deal. But then again what else is there to talk about right now . :razorback: