Still Rebuilding?

[zuko]

Heard Mike Anderson refer to rebuilding on his press conference post Tennessee game. For one thing, they beat a team that has a poor record as well, so why the hoopla! Next, why is he still rebuilding? Razorback basketball  is supposed to be well on the way to being competitive and not rebuilding. I mean how long is it going to take him.

[HOGINTENNESSEE]

They were build last year

[ErieHog]

They were just fine last year, and this was a rebuilding year for anyone paying attention.

You don't lose 4 of your primary rotation players, and a 5th for a half-season, without having an impact.

[jdlew]

They were just fine last year, and this was a rebuilding year for anyone paying attention.

You don't lose 4 of your primary rotation players, and a 5th for a half-season, without having an impact.

But the team last year....Did they really beat any ranked teams??...I guess the Ole Miss win on the road was their best win....I know they won 27 games...I like this years team and i think they are over achieving....last years team not so much...

[HoopS]

They were just fine last year, and this was a rebuilding year for anyone paying attention.

You don't lose 4 of your primary rotation players, and a 5th for a half-season, without having an impact.

I swear it seems like some posters didn't even start watching us until this season.

Your answer is spot-on yet so totally unnecessary at this point. How can anyone who follows the team not know that and apply that simple reasoning?

[WilsonHog]

I swear it seems like some posters didn't even start watching us until this season.

Your answer is spot-on yet so totally unnecessary at this point. How can anyone who follows the team not know that and apply that simple reasoning?

Because we have some "followers" who couldn't pour piss out of a boot with directions on the heel.

[Biggus Piggus]

Hey guys, did basketball season start yet? I'm looking forward to watching the Triplets. Are the games going to be on Channel 5? I like the new guy, Irwin.

[labb]

Troll

[hulk hog]

They were just fine last year, and this was a rebuilding year for anyone paying attention.

You don't lose 4 of your primary rotation players, and a 5th for a half-season, without having an impact.

It's not surprise, it's disappointment that in Year 5 we are again rebuilding. There are two things called recruiting and player development that you use to combat that. When you win 27 games, go to the NCAA tournament, have the Player of the Year and open a new practice facility, recruiting shouldn't be an uphill battle. I know there were all these unexpected things that happened but still we have no newcomer providing any impact.   I'm just glad the player development has been outstanding this year or we would be in bigger trouble.

We will likely lose 3 starters off this team, including 2 of our top 3 scores and our only post scorer. I hope these JUCO guys are as good as advertised and the coaches can get some returning players to make the leap like Kingsley, Durham and Bell have made this year or it could be another long year. I also hope that Mike can show last year's recruiting was a fluke because of all the "odd" things that happened.

[RaisinHog]

It's not surprise, it's disappointment that in Year 5 we are again rebuilding. There are two things called recruiting and player development that you use to combat that. When you win 27 games, go to the NCAA tournament, have the Player of the Year and open a new practice facility, recruiting shouldn't be an uphill battle. I know there were all these unexpected things that happened but still we have no newcomer providing any impact.   I'm just glad the player development has been outstanding this year or we would be in bigger trouble.

We will likely lose 3 starters off this team, including 2 of our top 3 scores and our only post scorer. I hope these JUCO guys are as good as advertised and the coaches can get some returning players to make the leap like Kingsley, Durham and Bell have made this year or it could be another long year. I also hope that Mike can show last year's recruiting was a fluke because of all the "odd" things that happened.

Kingsley is not going anywhere end of storey

[hulk hog]

Kingsley is not going anywhere end of storey

Neither was Qualls and in some peoples opinion Portis. Can't afford to make the same mistake twice.

[ErieHog]

It's not surprise, it's disappointment that in Year 5 we are again rebuilding. There are two things called recruiting and player development that you use to combat that. When you win 27 games, go to the NCAA tournament, have the Player of the Year and open a new practice facility, recruiting shouldn't be an uphill battle. I know there were all these unexpected things that happened but still we have no newcomer providing any impact.   I'm just glad the player development has been outstanding this year or we would be in bigger trouble.

We will likely lose 3 starters off this team, including 2 of our top 3 scores and our only post scorer. I hope these JUCO guys are as good as advertised and the coaches can get some returning players to make the leap like Kingsley, Durham and Bell have made this year or it could be another long year. I also hope that Mike can show last year's recruiting was a fluke because of all the "odd" things that happened.

Just no.

We're competitive this year, because of player development;  this was a season in which 10-12 wins was a real possibility-- most people put their upward limit on SEC victories at under 8.

And Kingsley is back next year.

[lynbug]

They were just fine last year, and this was a rebuilding year for anyone paying attention.

You don't lose 4 of your primary rotation players, and a 5th for a half-season, without having an impact.

Seniors leaving and Portis going pro--these could be anticipated.  But the debacle over the summer (and Babb leaving)......how do you anticipate those and recruit appropriately.  The problem is that these things seems to happen quite frequently.  How do  you recruit accordingly?

[ErieHog]

Seniors leaving and Portis going pro--these could be anticipated.  But the debacle over the summer (and Babb leaving)......how do you anticipate those and recruit appropriately.  The problem is that these things seems to happen quite frequently.  How do  you recruit accordingly?

You certainly don't anticipate your 2nd/3rd option going pro early.  You recruit and hope, and develop.  We're seeing the fruits of that with Kingsley, and in-program development.   It just gets hamstrung when you lose 2 guys you expect to still be starters this year, even with Portis' early departure.

[nwahogfan1]

Heard Mike Anderson refer to rebuilding on his press conference post Tennessee game. For one thing, they beat a team that has a poor record as well, so why the hoopla! Next, why is he still rebuilding? Razorback basketball  is supposed to be well on the way to being competitive and not rebuilding. I mean how long is it going to take him.

I for one will be happy when instead of rebuilding we can reload.   Recruiting, developing and retention is the life blood of great programs.  We need to retain Moses and sign a 3\4 star  big in the spring for developing.  Hopefully the 2 juco guards we signed  can fill in for our guard loses.  Now if we can sign a 3/4 star 3 then we will be reloading next year.

[Hog are ya]

You guys saying Kingsley is for sure back next year like it's a fact, where are you getting your info from?  I think he should return but he will be more ready to play next level with arguably more upside than Qualls, and I don't see him on the roster.  And from the best I could tell from that bit I saw on Mikes weekly show, sounds like his fam back home could use the $, even it it's Euro league $ which he would be guaranteed.  And if he tweaks his current numbers up the rest of the way, I'm not so sure he stays.

I truly hope you guys are right.  I would just find more comfort knowing you know something factual and it's not just your "hunch" that you imply as fact.....  Again, I think he would benefit returning and probably be a shoe in for first round in 2017.

[ErieHog]

You guys saying Kingsley is for sure back next year like it's a fact, where are you getting your info from?  I think he should return but he will be more ready to play next level with arguably more upside than Qualls, and I don't see him on the roster.  And from the best I could tell from that bit I saw on Mikes weekly show, sounds like his fam back home could use the $, even it it's Euro league $ which he would be guaranteed.  And if he tweaks his current numbers up the rest of the way, I'm not so sure he stays.

I truly hope you guys are right.  I would just find more comfort knowing you know something factual and it's not just your "hunch" that you imply as fact.....  Again, I think he would benefit returning and probably be a shoe in for first round in 2017.

There are guys who are no doubters, guys who have multiple projectable skills, guys who need more development,  and guys who are just good college players.

The first two categories are early departure risks; the last two are not.

To be in category 3, and go to the draft, you need a Day 1 skill, and a patient team to reach to take you in the 2nd- and even that is a crap shoot.

Kingsley is clearly in the early part of category 3,  and doesn't have a pro-ready skill.  Nobody is going to take him, at this stage.  He will have another year of development, and maybe go late in next year's draft.  He has a long way to go, still, to be a Qualls-level choice-- and even Qualls was a marginal early departure.

[Randy Johnson]

Because we have some "followers" who couldn't pour piss out of a boot with directions on the heel.

you are so wholesome

[BRHogfan]

Okay, so I'm not saying we are Duke!  Don't tell me later that I'm saying we're like Duke or that CMA is like Coach K.  I'm not saying that.  Don't say "Coach K has 5 championships"  We all know that.  Just don't say it.

If you're going to question why we have to rebuild in Mike's 5th year, then you clearly don't watch college basketball, because Duke is in a rebuilding year in Coach K's 36th year.  Obviously Duke rebuilding is very different than Arkansas rebuilding, but still, they aren't at a national championship level this year.  In fact their record is a game behind the pace Arkansas played at last year.  (18-6 for Duke vs. 19-5 for Arkansas)

So, just remember, we're not Duke.  If you want to be a Duke fan, just go to www.bluedeville.net

[HOGINTENNESSEE]

Neither was Qualls and in some peoples opinion Portis. Can't afford to make the same mistake twice.

Majority thought there was a chances Qualls would leave because he had a child.

Moses is under a different situation.

But what do you care? If Moses leaves and we don't go the NCAA tourney next year you probably get your wish and MA is out of here

[gmarv]

Hey guys, did basketball season start yet? I'm looking forward to watching the Triplets. Are the games going to be on Channel 5? I like the new guy, Irwin.

best post in this rehashed thread.i,m hoping the games are on channel 5 as that's the only channel we get.by the way is super sid coming back or is he turning pro next year?

[hamARchy in the USA]

MA doesn't build programs.  He builds crapshoots.  What do you get when every year is a crapshoot ?  Most years you get crap.

It's been noted how his teams tend to gravitate to the middle of the conference.  This year's appearance of better coaching is simply his team gravitating up to the middle.   Last year, in the head coach's fourth year, the team should have been playing for the conference title.  It wasn't even in the conversation because it gravitated down to the middle.  Someone will say it finished second in the standings.  That's only because it had the weakest schedule in the conference, yet it finished closer to 9th than to 1st.

Enduring success requires building a foundation.  In college basketball the foundation for enduring success is laid at the conference level.  That's where the championship culture is instilled in both the players and the fans.   The top coaches get it.  And they do it, with few exceptions, by the fourth year.   MA failed at Mizzou.  He's failed again at Arkansas.

As long as MA is the coach, mediocrity will prevail.

[HOGINTENNESSEE]

MA doesn't build programs.  He builds crapshoots.  What do you get when every year is a crapshoot ?  Most years you get crap.

It's been noted how his teams tend to gravitate to the middle of the conference.  This year's appearance of better coaching is simply his team gravitating up to the middle.   Last year, in the head coach's fourth year, the team should have been playing for the conference title.  It wasn't even in the conversation because it gravitated down to the middle.  Someone will say it finished second in the standings.  That's only because it had the weakest schedule in the conference, yet it finished closer to 9th than to 1st.

Enduring success requires building a foundation.  In college basketball the foundation for enduring success is laid at the conference level.  That's where the championship culture is instilled in both the players and the fans.   The top coaches get it.  And they do it, with few exceptions, by the fourth year.   MA failed at Mizzou.  He's failed again at Arkansas.

As long as MA is the coach, mediocrity will prevail.

Failed at Mizz? You better look again

[wheelspigharvey]

MA doesn't build programs.  He builds crapshoots.  What do you get when every year is a crapshoot ?  Most years you get crap.

It's been noted how his teams tend to gravitate to the middle of the conference.  This year's appearance of better coaching is simply his team gravitating up to the middle.   Last year, in the head coach's fourth year, the team should have been playing for the conference title.  It wasn't even in the conversation because it gravitated down to the middle.  Someone will say it finished second in the standings.  That's only because it had the weakest schedule in the conference, yet it finished closer to 9th than to 1st.

Enduring success requires building a foundation.  In college basketball the foundation for enduring success is laid at the conference level.  That's where the championship culture is instilled in both the players and the fans.   The top coaches get it.  And they do it, with few exceptions, by the fourth year.   MA failed at Mizzou.  He's failed again at Arkansas.

As long as MA is the coach, mediocrity will prevail.

Good for you.

[Biggus Piggus]

There's no spin as nutty as the negative spin that some people put on here.

[Biggus Piggus]

As long as MA is the coach, mediocrity will prevail.

That really is the deal, isn't it. Though "mediocrity" is overly harsh. Greatness - is it within reach?

Most fans would be happy if MA could produce a top 10 team every four or five years. Nolan built a Final Four-caliber team (1990-92) and went to one FF. Built another (1994-95) and went to two more. Never returned to that level + that wasn't good enough.

Eddie Sutton built a Final Four-caliber team (1977-78) and went to one. Almost got to another. Never returned to that level + that wasn't good enough.

All Arkansas fans really want is 20 wins in the rebuilding seasons, Final Four when the roster's right. Problem is that the formula can't be what it used to be. It is harder to make sure that the roster's got a strong supporting cast when the great young players arrive.

The Hogs couldn't put together good enough guards or power players to carry Portis to a FF. He left after two seasons. This year, Arkansas would have had a serious shot at winning the SEC and getting a very high seed in the NCAAT -- with Portis and Qualls. Still would have been sketchy on the frontcourt depth. But the guards would have been much better, and imagine Portis and Kingsley together. Imagine Thompson flinging outlet passes to Portis, Qualls, Bell and Hannahs.

Now it's harder to develop a supporting cast of juniors and seniors. And the young greats want to stay only a moment, not long enough to develop anything with the team. We're at a point where players like Qualls think they're ready, when they're not.

MA does his best work with third- and fourth-year players. He is good at identifying great young talent, but competition for those players is hotter than ever. His past trick was to find some serious bargains in juco land, but that was in conferences with much easier juco admission standards than the SEC has.

We're "stuck" with MA at the performance level that characterized the majority of Sutton's and Richardson's tenures. Fan interest will wax and wane, and eventually something will give. I just want to see some stability in the program over the next few seasons -- during a very nice upturn in the quality of in-state talent.

Arkansas will be significantly better next season, and that season will begin with a November signing class. That class should include some strong in-state players. If it does, then fans will not only enjoy better current basketball but also look forward to the near future.

Not sure I want to think past the next two seasons. Too many moving parts. But there's ample reason for everybody to settle down and watch.

[Hawg Red]

That really is the deal, isn't it. Though "mediocrity" is overly harsh. Greatness - is it within reach?

Most fans would be happy if MA could produce a top 10 team every four or five years. Nolan built a Final Four-caliber team (1990-92) and went to one FF. Built another (1994-95) and went to two more. Never returned to that level + that wasn't good enough.

Eddie Sutton built a Final Four-caliber team (1977-78) and went to one. Almost got to another. Never returned to that level + that wasn't good enough.

All Arkansas fans really want is 20 wins in the rebuilding seasons, Final Four when the roster's right. Problem is that the formula can't be what it used to be. It is harder to make sure that the roster's got a strong supporting cast when the great young players arrive.

The Hogs couldn't put together good enough guards or power players to carry Portis to a FF. He left after two seasons. This year, Arkansas would have had a serious shot at winning the SEC and getting a very high seed in the NCAAT -- with Portis and Qualls. Still would have been sketchy on the frontcourt depth. But the guards would have been much better, and imagine Portis and Kingsley together. Imagine Thompson flinging outlet passes to Portis, Qualls, Bell and Hannahs.

Now it's harder to develop a supporting cast of juniors and seniors. And the young greats want to stay only a moment, not long enough to develop anything with the team. We're at a point where players like Qualls think they're ready, when they're not.

MA does his best work with third- and fourth-year players. He is good at identifying great young talent, but competition for those players is hotter than ever. His past trick was to find some serious bargains in juco land, but that was in conferences with much easier juco admission standards than the SEC has.

We're "stuck" with MA at the performance level that characterized the majority of Sutton's and Richardson's tenures. Fan interest will wax and wane, and eventually something will give. I just want to see some stability in the program over the next few seasons -- during a very nice upturn in the quality of in-state talent.

Arkansas will be significantly better next season, and that season will begin with a November signing class. That class should include some strong in-state players. If it does, then fans will not only enjoy better current basketball but also look forward to the near future.

Not sure I want to think past the next two seasons. Too many moving parts. But there's ample reason for everybody to settle down and watch.

Don't know if it can be said much better than that.

[The_Iceman]

That really is the deal, isn't it. Though "mediocrity" is overly harsh. Greatness - is it within reach?

Most fans would be happy if MA could produce a top 10 team every four or five years. Nolan built a Final Four-caliber team (1990-92) and went to one FF. Built another (1994-95) and went to two more. Never returned to that level + that wasn't good enough.

Eddie Sutton built a Final Four-caliber team (1977-78) and went to one. Almost got to another. Never returned to that level + that wasn't good enough.

All Arkansas fans really want is 20 wins in the rebuilding seasons, Final Four when the roster's right. Problem is that the formula can't be what it used to be. It is harder to make sure that the roster's got a strong supporting cast when the great young players arrive.

The Hogs couldn't put together good enough guards or power players to carry Portis to a FF. He left after two seasons. This year, Arkansas would have had a serious shot at winning the SEC and getting a very high seed in the NCAAT -- with Portis and Qualls. Still would have been sketchy on the frontcourt depth. But the guards would have been much better, and imagine Portis and Kingsley together. Imagine Thompson flinging outlet passes to Portis, Qualls, Bell and Hannahs.

Now it's harder to develop a supporting cast of juniors and seniors. And the young greats want to stay only a moment, not long enough to develop anything with the team. We're at a point where players like Qualls think they're ready, when they're not.

MA does his best work with third- and fourth-year players. He is good at identifying great young talent, but competition for those players is hotter than ever. His past trick was to find some serious bargains in juco land, but that was in conferences with much easier juco admission standards than the SEC has.

We're "stuck" with MA at the performance level that characterized the majority of Sutton's and Richardson's tenures. Fan interest will wax and wane, and eventually something will give. I just want to see some stability in the program over the next few seasons -- during a very nice upturn in the quality of in-state talent.

Arkansas will be significantly better next season, and that season will begin with a November signing class. That class should include some strong in-state players. If it does, then fans will not only enjoy better current basketball but also look forward to the near future.

Not sure I want to think past the next two seasons. Too many moving parts. But there's ample reason for everybody to settle down and watch.

Very well said. I think you pretty much bridged the gap between those who are concerned/frustrated and those who think Mike is the answer.

[hamARchy in the USA]

That really is the deal, isn't it. Though "mediocrity" is overly harsh. Greatness - is it within reach?

Most fans would be happy if MA could produce a top 10 team every four or five years. Nolan built a Final Four-caliber team (1990-92) and went to one FF. Built another (1994-95) and went to two more. Never returned to that level + that wasn't good enough.

Eddie Sutton built a Final Four-caliber team (1977-78) and went to one. Almost got to another. Never returned to that level + that wasn't good enough.

All Arkansas fans really want is 20 wins in the rebuilding seasons, Final Four when the roster's right. Problem is that the formula can't be what it used to be. It is harder to make sure that the roster's got a strong supporting cast when the great young players arrive.

The Hogs couldn't put together good enough guards or power players to carry Portis to a FF. He left after two seasons. This year, Arkansas would have had a serious shot at winning the SEC and getting a very high seed in the NCAAT -- with Portis and Qualls. Still would have been sketchy on the frontcourt depth. But the guards would have been much better, and imagine Portis and Kingsley together. Imagine Thompson flinging outlet passes to Portis, Qualls, Bell and Hannahs.

Now it's harder to develop a supporting cast of juniors and seniors. And the young greats want to stay only a moment, not long enough to develop anything with the team. We're at a point where players like Qualls think they're ready, when they're not.

MA does his best work with third- and fourth-year players. He is good at identifying great young talent, but competition for those players is hotter than ever. His past trick was to find some serious bargains in juco land, but that was in conferences with much easier juco admission standards than the SEC has.

We're "stuck" with MA at the performance level that characterized the majority of Sutton's and Richardson's tenures. Fan interest will wax and wane, and eventually something will give. I just want to see some stability in the program over the next few seasons -- during a very nice upturn in the quality of in-state talent.

Arkansas will be significantly better next season, and that season will begin with a November signing class. That class should include some strong in-state players. If it does, then fans will not only enjoy better current basketball but also look forward to the near future.

Not sure I want to think past the next two seasons. Too many moving parts. But there's ample reason for everybody to settle down and watch.

I appreciate the thoughtful comments.  Can't disagree, generally, but there are some points that are debatable.

Standards determine levels of success.  Those standards manifest in terms of wins, tradition, and expectations.

Broyles expected a lot out of his programs and set the bar high for them.  He hired coaches he thought could meet them.  Sutton and Richardson proved capable of meeting high standards.  Then both began petering out and had to go.  Sutton's substance abuse caught up with him.  Richardson went to sleep at the wheel.

Subsequent hires which were the product of lesser leadership did not meet the previous standard.  Hence, the coach HeathPelAnderson era has languished in mediocrity.

The bright spot is that much of the fan base continues to expect more.  The fans for the most part still embrace high standards.  Though the result of higher fan expectations has manifested in a lot of empty seats it signals that the program does not have to remain stuck in mediocrity.

The right hire would quickly bring renewed confidence that the high standards of the past were operative once again.  Enthusiasm for the program would return and it would show in recruiting and in attendance. 

If things stay the same the results will stay the same.  The state's best recruits will be hard to keep home while the fans will prefer to stay home.

[Atlhogfan1]

Just no.

We're competitive this year, because of player development;  this was a season in which 10-12 wins was a real possibility-- most people put their upward limit on SEC victories at under 8.

And Kingsley is back next year.

10-12 wins?  Only 2-4 non conf wins?

We're also competitive because the teams we are playing aren't significantly better for the most part. 

[BRHogfan]

I appreciate the thoughtful comments.  Can't disagree, generally, but there are some points that are debatable.

Standards determine levels of success.  Those standards manifest in terms of wins, tradition, and expectations.

Broyles expected a lot out of his programs and set the bar high for them.  He hired coaches he thought could meet them.  Sutton and Richardson proved capable of meeting high standards.  Then both began petering out and had to go.  Sutton's substance abuse caught up with him.  Richardson went to sleep at the wheel.

Subsequent hires which were the product of lesser leadership did not meet the previous standard.  Hence, the coach HeathPelAnderson era has languished in mediocrity.

The bright spot is that much of the fan base continues to expect more.  The fans for the most part still embrace high standards.  Though the result of higher fan expectations has manifested in a lot of empty seats it signals that the program does not have to remain stuck in mediocrity.

The right hire would quickly bring renewed confidence that the high standards of the past were operative once again.  Enthusiasm for the program would return and it would show in recruiting and in attendance. 

If things stay the same the results will stay the same.  The state's best recruits will be hard to keep home while the fans will prefer to stay home.

Who is the right hire?  Do you want us to go get Greg McDermott from Creighton?  How about Frank Haith at Tulsa?

Did you know those guys were slam dunk hires when they were hired?  It was obvious Lanny Van Eman needed to go, but his teams never made the Tournament and only had one winning season. 

Eddie Sutton left of his own choosing, but his program had gone to the NCAA tournament every year when Nolan took over.

You're acting like post 2010 it's the same thing as 1974 when Arkansas hired Eddie, and it's not.  You're acting like this program is just a coaching decision away from perennial success.  What college team has made a coaching change and taken a team that missed the NCAA tournament for 3 straight years to the top of the mountain?  WHO?

[The real Hogules]

You guys saying Kingsley is for sure back next year like it's a fact, where are you getting your info from?  I think he should return but he will be more ready to play next level with arguably more upside than Qualls, and I don't see him on the roster.  And from the best I could tell from that bit I saw on Mikes weekly show, sounds like his fam back home could use the $, even it it's Euro league $ which he would be guaranteed.  And if he tweaks his current numbers up the rest of the way, I'm not so sure he stays.

I truly hope you guys are right.  I would just find more comfort knowing you know something factual and it's not just your "hunch" that you imply as fact.....  Again, I think he would benefit returning and probably be a shoe in for first round in 2017.

Michael Qualls had a child to support, I don't think that's the case for Moses Kingsley.
If you lose about 80%-85% of your scoring from the previous season, unless you're Kentucky you will generally be in a rebuilding mode the following year.

[Jackrabbit Hog]

10-12 wins?  Only 2-4 non conf wins?

We're also competitive because the teams we are playing aren't significantly better for the most part.

I was hoping for a Bigger season than that..

[The Hogfather]

I just want to see some stability in the program

I have been saying this since we fired Stan Heath.  I do not want to keep turning over our coaches.  I think that has hurt the basketball program more than anything.  Now that we have a proven coach with ties to the best times in our program's history, including a NC, let's give him MORE than enough time to prove to us he can get us back to an elite level and keep us there.  In my eyes, that's a decade for him.  I know some won't like that, but as you said, I feel like it is about to start coming together and he should be able to sustain it for awhile with a few elite-ish types coming from within the state that will be/should be/could be Hogs over the next few years (Hill/Gafford/Shittu/Vanover/etc.).  I feel like next year's class will help immediately, especially if we are able to add Thomas and/or Fisher.  Even without them, as long as Kingsley is here, we should make a good bit of noise next season.

[HoopS]

Who is the right hire?  Do you want us to go get Greg McDermott from Creighton?  How about Frank Haith at Tulsa?

Did you know those guys were slam dunk hires when they were hired?  It was obvious Lanny Van Eman needed to go, but his teams never made the Tournament and only had one winning season. 

Eddie Sutton left of his own choosing, but his program had gone to the NCAA tournament every year when Nolan took over.

You're acting like post 2010 it's the same thing as 1974 when Arkansas hired Eddie, and it's not.  You're acting like this program is just a coaching decision away from perennial success.  What college team has made a coaching change and taken a team that missed the NCAA tournament for 3 straight years to the top of the mountain?  WHO?

I am sure some see me as a MA homer. Well I do support him. But I wanted Greg Marshall as our coach. And of MA were to leave after next season, then I'd likely still hope for GM.

[rude1]

I for one will be happy when instead of rebuilding we can reload.   Recruiting, developing and retention is the life blood of great programs.  We need to retain Moses and sign a 3\4 star  big in the spring for developing.  Hopefully the 2 juco guards we signed  can fill in for our guard loses.  Now if we can sign a 3/4 star 3 then we will be reloading next year.

Sounds easy enough doesn't it? Unfortunately it just doesn't work that way any more, out of curiosity I looked at the top 15 now and compared to see how many in the current top 15 were in at the same point of season the last two years, only 3 programs did it, Villanova, Kansas, and Louisville. The game just has changed and it is hard to build and sustain when kids are bolting to the league. The top programs won't dip as far as we will but they indeed take steps back while trying to bring along a new group.

[BRHogfan]

I am sure some see me as a MA homer. Well I do support him. But I wanted Greg Marshall as our coach. And of MA were to leave after next season, then I'd likely still hope for GM.

I guess it seems like he was able to make the Final Four with his worst team that he's had in the last 4 years, but Wichita State has been better than we've been in the same timeframe.  It seems hard to go get him considering he's turned down UCLA and Mizzou pulling out all the stops.  He's got all that Koch money.

[hamARchy in the USA]

Who is the right hire?  Do you want us to go get Greg McDermott from Creighton?  How about Frank Haith at Tulsa?

Did you know those guys were slam dunk hires when they were hired?  It was obvious Lanny Van Eman needed to go, but his teams never made the Tournament and only had one winning season. 

Eddie Sutton left of his own choosing, but his program had gone to the NCAA tournament every year when Nolan took over.

You're acting like post 2010 it's the same thing as 1974 when Arkansas hired Eddie, and it's not.  You're acting like this program is just a coaching decision away from perennial success.  What college team has made a coaching change and taken a team that missed the NCAA tournament for 3 straight years to the top of the mountain?  WHO?

Top of the mountain ?  You mean a national championship ?   The top coaches establish their programs by building a conference power.  That lays the foundation for being a national power and makes competing for a national championship a realistic possibility.

You are correct that the situation is different today than when Sutton was hired.  Sutton started with nothing and won the SWC in his third year.  Today there are great facilities and a hungry fan base that has witnessed the potential of the program.  Sutton would have had excuses for failure.  Today a coach does not.

[ErieHog]

10-12 wins?  Only 2-4 non conf wins?

We're also competitive because the teams we are playing aren't significantly better for the most part. 

Yeah.  There is a reason we were picked as low as 13th in the league, and 11th by the media.  This season was supposed to be an exercise in basketball brutality.  Instead, a .500 conference record isn't out of the question.

Here's the blurb for Arkansas from the CBS preview of SEC basketball, as an aside:

"Arkansas went 13-5 in the SEC last season thanks to a roster of notable players that pretty much no longer exists. Consequently, 5-13 is the more likely scenario this season."

[HOGINTENNESSEE]

I am sure some see me as a MA homer. Well I do support him. But I wanted Greg Marshall as our coach. And of MA were to leave after next season, then I'd likely still hope for GM.

Gre Marshall has turned down better jobs and jobs offering more money than we would

[Science Fiction Greg]

Rebuilding happens to good basketball programs, and not just during a coach's first couple of years.  Better get used to it.  Sometimes a roster just gets depleted.  It can be bad luck, recruiting disappointments, lots of things.  It happens.  You don't bail out.  You either believe in the program under the coach or you don't.  If you don't, fine, but you can't just use "oh we're still rebuilding" as the reason.  Rebuilding years happen.

[Atlhogfan1]

Yeah.  There is a reason we were picked as low as 13th in the league, and 11th by the media.  This season was supposed to be an exercise in basketball brutality.  Instead, a .500 conference record isn't out of the question.

Here's the blurb for Arkansas from the CBS preview of SEC basketball, as an aside:

"Arkansas went 13-5 in the SEC last season thanks to a roster of notable players that pretty much no longer exists. Consequently, 5-13 is the more likely scenario this season."

Which you know was ridiculous then and especially now that we have seen the team and the competition it has faced and will face. 

[Science Fiction Greg]

Which you know was ridiculous then and especially now that we have seen the team and the competition it has faced and will face.

It wasn't ridiculous.  That was the expectation of most people, with good reason.  It's why most people now think Mike Anderson has done a fantastic job so far this season.

Are you telling me that you thought 13-5 was more likely than 5-13 before the season?  I'd still say 5-13 would be more likely having seen the team and their competition all season if we started over.

[The_Iceman]

I am sure some see me as a MA homer. Well I do support him. But I wanted Greg Marshall as our coach. And of MA were to leave after next season, then I'd likely still hope for GM.

Arkansas won't be hiring a new coach for at least a couple years. I'm not even sure a total collapse next season would cause him to lose his job. But, if we were to hire anyone, I would seriously look at Ben Jacobson from Northern Iowa. I think he has a bright future outside of Cedar Falls, Iowa.

[Atlhogfan1]

It wasn't ridiculous.  That was the expectation of most people, with good reason.  It's why most people now think Mike Anderson has done a fantastic job so far this season.

10-12 wins or 5 SEC wins was and is ridiculous.  It wasn't the expectation of most.  Erie has had a habit for a few years now of exaggerating what the team faced especially in non conference so he can then claim overachievement.  We have had these discussions with him before.  Usually by this deep in conference play, he has mostly disappeared. 

4 non conference wins, which Erie is claiming now was the ceiling for expectations, would have meant multiple losses to this group of teams in BWA:  Southern, Charleston Southern, NW St, Evansville, Tenn Tech, North Florida and Texas Tech. 

[Atlhogfan1]

It wasn't ridiculous.  That was the expectation of most people, with good reason.  It's why most people now think Mike Anderson has done a fantastic job so far this season.

Are you telling me that you thought 13-5 was more likely than 5-13 before the season?  I'd still say 5-13 would be more likely having seen the team and their competition all season if we started over.

No I didn't.   

10-12 wins would have been a failure and inexcusable without circumstances like Kingsley, Bell and Hannahs missing games. 

[Science Fiction Greg]

No I didn't.   

10-12 wins would have been a failure and inexcusable without circumstances like Kingsley, Bell and Hannahs missing games.

If you didn't think 13-5 was more likely than 5-13, then how can you say:

"Arkansas went 13-5 in the SEC last season thanks to a roster of notable players that pretty much no longer exists. Consequently, 5-13 is the more likely scenario this season."

was ridiculous?  You agree with it.

[Atlhogfan1]

If you didn't think 13-5 was more likely than 5-13, then how can you say:

"Arkansas went 13-5 in the SEC last season thanks to a roster of notable players that pretty much no longer exists. Consequently, 5-13 is the more likely scenario this season."

was ridiculous?  You agree with it.

5-13 was a ridiculous prediction for our SEC record.  Only Erie's claim now of 4 non conf wins being more ridiculous. 

[ErieHog]

10-12 wins or 5 SEC wins was and is ridiculous.  It wasn't the expectation of most.  Erie has had a habit for a few years now of exaggerating what the team faced especially in non conference so he can then claim overachievement.  We have had these discussions with him before.  Usually by this deep in conference play, he has mostly disappeared. 

4 non conference wins, which Erie is claiming now was the ceiling for expectations, would have meant multiple losses to this group of teams in BWA:  Southern, Charleston Southern, NW St, Evansville, Tenn Tech, North Florida and Texas Tech. 

To the contrary,  what I state isn't underselling.  This was supposed to be a bad basketball team.    And yeah, look at that list, and two or more losses entering this year was not unthinkable.

I've never disappeared anywhere.   You can tell who doesn't like Anderson, by the standards they set being radical departures that objective outside observation provides.  When a Hog fan tends to agree more with outsiders, than the 'Fire Mike Now' bandwagon,   they are pooh-poohing the program-- or so, at least the bandwagoners claim.

[Science Fiction Greg]

5-13 was a ridiculous prediction for our SEC record.  Only Erie's claim now of 4 non conf wins being more ridiculous.

5-13 wasn't the prediction.  It was stated as the more likely scenario out of 13-5 and 5-13.  You agree with that.  It's not ridiculous.

Also, this was predicted to be a horrific season by pretty much everyone.  It could easily have been as bad as 4 non conference wins.  I'm not sure how you don't remember that.

I think the only people that didn't think that were the ones that wanted to pretend nothing happened so they could act shocked at how Mike Anderson was losing so many games.