Gimme dunk is unsportsmanlike (Self)?

[GS99]

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/14712877/bill-self-rips-kansas-jayhawks-guard-brannen-greene-last-second-dunk-rout

Not necessary, but what did it hurt?  Did Self have K State +17?

Even if I was a K State fan, I wouldn't really care.  So what?

I remember Brandon Dean doing a totally unnecessary, unguarded, really cool reverse dunk at the end of a game. 

[Pork Twain]

Coaches set the expectation and hold players accountable.  I know we are not used to that, but how is it a bad thing?

[Arazorbackguy1]

it's pretty obvious tthat this isn't the first incident he has had with the kid.  Doubt he's on the team much longer. 

[Breems]

Coaches set the expectation and hold players accountable.  I know we are not used to that, but how is it a bad thing?

Why are we not used to that? What examples and patterns of bad sportsmanship can you point out? LoL.

[jkstock04]

Pretty classless move honestly.

Being as that the majority of Hogville is on an integrity/doing things the right way crusade the past couple of years I would say most everyone here would agree it was a classless move.

[Captain Morgan]

Why are we not used to that? What examples and patterns of bad sportsmanship can you point out? LoL.

Just yesterday a clearly frustrated Jimmy Whitt slaps the Florida player in the face and eyeball. It was clearly a dirty play.

[Hawg Red]

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/14712877/bill-self-rips-kansas-jayhawks-guard-brannen-greene-last-second-dunk-rout

Not necessary, but what did it hurt?  Did Self have K State +17?

Even if I was a K State fan, I wouldn't really care.  So what?

I remember Brandon Dean doing a totally unnecessary, unguarded, really cool reverse dunk at the end of a game.

That's obviously not something Self wants his players doing. I don't think Mike would want our guys doing it, either. I don't have an opinion either way, nor does it matter what you or I think. In boxing or MMA, you protect yourself at all times. As long as there is still time on the clock, a basketball team should be playing basketball. But the head coach decides how to handle situations like this and Greene clearly went against what Self preaches. All that matters is that Self thinks his own player was unsportsmanlike, so yes, he was unsportsmanlike.

[TomBigBeeHog]

That's obviously not something Self wants his players doing. I don't think Mike would want our guys doing it, either. I don't have an opinion either way, nor does it matter what you or I think. In boxing or MMA, you protect yourself at all times. As long as there is still time on the clock, a basketball team should be playing basketball. But the head coach decides how to handle situations like this and Greene clearly went against what Self preaches. All that matters is that Self thinks his own player was unsportsmanlike, so yes, he was unsportsmanlike.

Those were D1 players out there on the floor. There was still time on the clock. Play ball. If one of our guys did it, I would take it as the icing on the cake. If he was sincere about that belief of his, he should have spoken to the player privately instead of publicly.

[Hawg Red]

Those were D1 players out there on the floor. There was still time on the clock. Play ball. If one of our guys did it, I would take it as the icing on the cake. If he was sincere about that belief of his, he should have spoken to the player privately instead of publicly.

Again, me personally, I don't care one way or the other. If the other team doesn't want to be dunked on, play defense. But Self is obviously pissed about it. How he chooses to handle it, privately or publicly, is his choice. I'm sure he has his reasons.

[TomBigBeeHog]

Again, me personally, I don't care one way or the other. If the other team doesn't want to be dunked on, play defense. But Self is obviously pissed about it. How he chooses to handle it, privately or publicly, is his choice. I'm sure he has his reasons.

Not disagreeing with your take just stating mine. Self is probably like a lot of the egomaniacs and control freaks in supervisory positions. If he were such a great sportsman, maybe he would use his platform to advocate the overhaul of the AAU system and the handlers who exploit elite athletes such as the kids he publicly scolds for scoring points while time is still on the clock. Too me, his stance about sportsmanship reeks of hypocrisy.

[jm]

It was just a stupid play. There is no upside for Self or his team, but there are numerous possibilities for down side.
The kid could have injured himself. The defense should have "played through the final buzzer" and put the kid on his back. They chose to concede but probably will not next time.

[EastexHawg]

Maybe Self wants Kansas State players, coaches, and fans know that he didn't intend for the unsportsmanlike conduct to happen and that he is dealing with it.

[RockChalkJayhawk]

The game was over, KSU was walking to the handshake line, and Greene took yet another opportunity to show the world how selfish and stupid he is.  It was embarrassing, classless, and totally uncalled for.  And Self will not put up with that kinda crap, nor should he.  You just don't do that when the opponent has conceded; even when it's KSU.  And by the way, this is NOT the first time Greene has pulled some immature garbage, he's been a problem from day 1.  Frankly I am surprised he's still in the program.

Personally I hope the kid transfers. He's not very good, and he's been a distraction throughout his career.  Sadly, he's one of those kids who loves attention, even if it's negative.

So, keep your eye out for a transferring wing shooter who plays no defense.

[Hawg Red]

The game was over, KSU was walking to the handshake line, and Greene took yet another opportunity to show the world how selfish and stupid he is.  It was embarrassing, classless, and totally uncalled for.  And Self will not put up with that kinda crap, nor should he.  You just don't do that when the opponent has conceded; even when it's KSU.  And by the way, this is NOT the first time Greene has pulled some immature garbage, he's been a problem from day 1.  Frankly I am surprised he's still in the program.

Personally I hope the kid transfers. He's not very good, and he's been a distraction throughout his career.  Sadly, he's one of those kids who loves attention, even if it's negative.

So, keep your eye out for a transferring wing shooter who plays no defense.

I thought I remembered him being a problem in the past.

Also, good to see you posting again.

[TomBigBeeHog]

Ok, just watched the play. Uncalled for yes but the reaction is over the top. Admonish the kid or what ever but to apologize to a team publicly that you just beat handily seems a little condescending. Handle the kid privately and be done with it.

[TomBigBeeHog]

They win easily and Self goes on about how K-State played their best and played so hard compared to the listless and uninspired play of his team. Was funny. If I was K-State, I would be madder about that. Basically Self was saying, we sucked and still blew you out.

[Porquemada]

This won't play out in Arkansas this season. I'm afraid they'll rarely have a comfortable lead at the end of the game for a Razorback player to do this. Must be nice to have a program that your biggest worry is a player dunking the ball late in a blowout win.

[TomBigBeeHog]

This won't play out in Arkansas this season. I'm afraid they'll rarely have a comfortable lead at the end of the game for a Razorback player to do this. Must be nice to have a program that your biggest worry is a player dunking the ball late in a blowout win.

You always surface when things are bad and then you disappear. Kinda like the hiatus you took after dumping on the football team a few years back.

Arkansas' football history is riddled with "worst loss evers". Losing to Memphis, The Citadel, getting beat by SMU during Ford's years, getting absolutely demolished 70-17 by USC were all worst loss evers at the time they happened. The loss to ULM just joins the group and rightfully so. Now that I'm thinking about it, being a Razorback fan is probably filled more bad loss memories than good win memories. Damn, that's depressing.

They got pills for that.

[Porquemada]

I'd still take a dump on them for those losses. Nothing's changed. You can't argue with cold hard facts.

[Porquemada]

BTW I'm not a die hard basketball Razorback fan. They could drop the program for all I care.

[TomBigBeeHog]

BTW I'm not a die hard basketball Razorback fan. They could drop the program for all I care.

[Porquemada]

And.....?

[TomBigBeeHog]

They win easily and Self goes on about how K-State played their best and played so hard compared to the listless and uninspired play of his team. Was funny. If I was K-State, I would be madder about that. Basically Self was saying, we sucked and still blew you out.

[jesterzzn]

I heard the radio goon reaction and thought the kid must have really done something pretty awful.

I saw the replay and thought, "Seriously?  Who gives a shirt?"

It was barely even a dunk.  Are there no more reasonable people in the world anymore?  His own coach threw him under the bus?  For that?  That's what I find unbelievable.

[hogsanity]

if it was a KU starter doing it, then yea no real need. IF it was a sub who may not play much, I have no problem with it.

[Pork Twain]

Why are we not used to that? What examples and patterns of bad sportsmanship can you point out? LoL.

Were you used to Heath and Pel setting a standard and holding the players to it?

[hogsanity]

Were you used to Heath and Pel setting a standard and holding the players to it?

i was used to them producing at the same levels Mike is. And I was used to people saying they should be fired for it.

[azhog10]

i was used to them producing at the same levels Mike is. And I was used to people saying they should be fired for it.

What 27 game win season did Heath and Pel produce? I must have missed that season.......

[ShadowHawg]

Just watched. Self is being a jerk. He most likely just doesn't like this kid. He didn't even break the rim down. I guess if he was a walkon it would have been ok.

For starters, doing this in public instead of with the team is what's unusual here. Self is absolutely out of line for attacking one of his at a press conference. That's the only classless thing being done here, a grown man premeditating putting a kid on trial in public.

Self owes another apology to this kid and his family.

[ShadowHawg]

i was used to them producing at the same levels Mike is. And I was used to people saying they should be fired for it.

So you think MA has 38% conf win pct? Because that's what Heath and Pel combined to do.

[Breems]

Were you used to Heath and Pel setting a standard and holding the players to it?

You're going to use the Pelphmeister? John Suspendelphrey?

[rude1]

Those were D1 players out there on the floor. There was still time on the clock. Play ball. If one of our guys did it, I would take it as the icing on the cake. If he was sincere about that belief of his, he should have spoken to the player privately instead of publicly.

I have to agree with this. Very hypocritical example by the HC. You claim you want your team to have some class and not show the opponent up, yet you go public and show up your player, rather than getting him in practicing and running him until his tongue drags, then explain to him that's not how we play the game here.

[phadedhawg]

Good on Self for having standards and holding his kids to them. 

[BorderPatrol]

Just watched. Self is being a jerk. He most likely just doesn't like this kid. He didn't even break the rim down. I guess if he was a walkon it would have been ok.

For starters, doing this in public instead of with the team is what's unusual here. Self is absolutely out of line for attacking one of his at a press conference. That's the only classless thing being done here, a grown man premeditating putting a kid on trial in public.

Self owes another apology to this kid and his family.

Do you know the history between Self, this kid and KU?

If you did, would it change your view?

bp

[sickboy]

There's clearly more going on here. It's a blip on the radar nine times out of ten. The normal way to handle that situation is to pull the player aside after the game and take care of it face to face. Say don't do it again. Instead, Self feels compelled to bring this to the media for some reason. Maybe he's trying to motivate his team. Whatever he's doing, I'm guessing it'll work. I think he's proven that over the course of his career.

[HawgAdvocate]

The game was over, KSU was walking to the handshake line, and Greene took yet another opportunity to show the world how selfish and stupid he is.  It was embarrassing, classless, and totally uncalled for.  And Self will not put up with that kinda crap, nor should he.  You just don't do that when the opponent has conceded; even when it's KSU.  And by the way, this is NOT the first time Greene has pulled some immature garbage, he's been a problem from day 1.  Frankly I am surprised he's still in the program.

Personally I hope the kid transfers. He's not very good, and he's been a distraction throughout his career.  Sadly, he's one of those kids who loves attention, even if it's negative.

So, keep your eye out for a transferring wing shooter who plays no defense.

Good post. I'll trust Self and the Jayhawk fan to tell it like it is.

[Brandon72]

The point is not if in the big picture if it was right or wrong.  I think we can all agree it was unnecessary and at the same time it was far from a big deal, on a scale of 1 - 10.

The issue is, obviously, this is something that Self and his program do not support or condone.  It's just a standard he has set and a line he has drawn. 

It's like a baseball player swinging on a 3-0 pitch, when they got the take sign, and jack a home run.   It's not the fact the batter swung on a 3-0, that you almost always take, but that the coach specifically said "don't swing." 

It's a big deal to Self, and he is using a type of public shaming as part of the punishment. 

[Inhogswetrust]

We should have gotten Self when we had the chance to do so........................

[Dr. Starcs]

We have a very successful high school coach in our hometown that gets up by 20-30 and keeps starters in and continues to run set plays to get players more shots.

I think last game he put in his final 5 with less than a minute to play and one girl didnt get in.

Sportsmanship is a thing of the past to many people. Coaches, players and fans included.

[ShadowHawg]

Do you know the history between Self, this kid and KU?

If you did, would it change your view?

bp

That just makes it even more petty.

I have coached. That team is your family even if there is a member that is a pain.

You keep stuff like this inside the family. You don't air it in a press conference. Extremely poor leadership from the Adult of the team.

And for those of you that were offended by that end of the game bucket, Clint McDaniel did the EXACT same thing against Duke in the championship game but missed. I have never heard of peep from anyone about that being classless and the kid sucks, blah, blah, blah

Bill Self is a titty baby.

[SuperSid4Ever]

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/14712877/bill-self-rips-kansas-jayhawks-guard-brannen-greene-last-second-dunk-rout

Not necessary, but what did it hurt?  Did Self have K State +17?

Even if I was a K State fan, I wouldn't really care.  So what?

I remember Brandon Dean doing a totally unnecessary, unguarded, really cool reverse dunk at the end of a game.

Self is responsible for the conduct of his players, and he's setting boundaries for them in terms of rules and personal conduct both on and off the floor.

The game was well in hand, and the rest of the team was already walking off the court.

It's that old thing some of our parents used to tell us when we were growing up.

"But Mom, Johnny does it all the time!!"

"I am YOUR mother, NOT Johnny's mother, and I don't want you doing that."

[SuperSid4Ever]

That just makes it even more petty.

I have coached. That team is your family even if there is a member that is a pain.

You keep stuff like this inside the family. You don't air it in a press conference. Extremely poor leadership from the Adult of the team.

And for those of you that were offended by that end of the game bucket, Clint McDaniel did the EXACT same thing against Duke in the championship game but missed. I have never heard of peep from anyone about that being classless and the kid sucks, blah, blah, blah

Bill Self is a titty baby.

McDaniel did NOT do the exact same thing.  The teams weren't heading into the team handshakes when he broke to the basket.  Duke was trying to work for a last shot, when the ball was stolen and passed to McDaniel.  That is dramatically different than what happened in the game cited above.

[ShadowHawg]

McDaniel did NOT do the exact same thing.  The teams weren't heading into the team handshakes when he broke to the basket.  Duke was trying to work for a last shot, when the ball was stolen and passed to McDaniel.  That is dramatically different than what happened in the game cited above.

Duke was no longer contesting the play. The game had been conceded. He could have pulled up and dribbled.

Also, how many times have you heard the announcers say,"He puts an exclamation point on the game" when a guy needlessly dunks it with seconds remaining.

What the kid did happens all the time without all the fuss.

[Captain Morgan]

What 27 game win season did Heath and Pel produce? I must have missed that season.......

Second round exit to North Carolina that year. Got as far as Pel did in his first year and lost to the same team 

[Pork Twain]

That just makes it even more petty.

I have coached. That team is your family even if there is a member that is a pain.

You keep stuff like this inside the family. You don't air it in a press conference. Extremely poor leadership from the Adult of the team.

And for those of you that were offended by that end of the game bucket, Clint McDaniel did the EXACT same thing against Duke in the championship game but missed. I have never heard of peep from anyone about that being classless and the kid sucks, blah, blah, blah

Bill Self is a titty baby.

I have coached too, but I have not coached at one of the top programs in college basketball or any other upper level.  Have you?

[TomBigBeeHog]

I have to agree with this. Very hypocritical example by the HC. You claim you want your team to have some class and not show the opponent up, yet you go public and show up your player, rather than getting him in practicing and running him until his tongue drags, then explain to him that's not how we play the game here.

[RaisinHog]

I normally stay quite in these types of forums and I'm not in love with coach Anderson but anybody who wants to put his name in.the same sentence as freaking pell of heath should freaking be bant .. I would have liked for his first 5 years here to be better but the man has proven he can get a program to elite levels and has prolly won 3 times as many games as those 2 yahoos combined .. Good lord

[rude1]

Duke was no longer contesting the play. The game had been conceded. He could have pulled up and dribbled.

Also, how many times have you heard the announcers say,"He puts an exclamation point on the game" when a guy needlessly dunks it with seconds remaining.

What the kid did happens all the time without all the fuss.

The problem is that kids coach obviously doesn't want his players adding an exclamation point. I agree with Self, but I just don't agree with Self doing it publicly, run the kid, sit the kid for a half or a game depending on how serious you view it, but don't break the motto that coaches themselves establish of "keeping it in the dressing room".

[k.c.hawg]

What many of you are missing is, the actual dunk is responsible for 20% of Bill Self's outburst. The other 80% is a continuation of not paying attention to detail. In this case the detail was, not closing out a 16 point blow out the way the coach has taught them to close out a 16 point blow out.

He has a team that has some talented players that are not defending the way they are taught. He has a team with some players that are flat out not following instructions. He's benching players, shuffling the line up game after game trying to get their attention. Several games back he called a time out and set up a play he wanted run and one of his more talented players received the in bounds pass and jacked up a 3 almost instantaneously. He didn't let that slide either. He addressed the player and the situation in the post game interview.

I think Bill Self thinks he has a few guys that think they will automatically be good because they are Kansas. He is trying to teach and get through to these players that Kansas isn't good because they are Kansas, Kansas is good because players work hard, pay attention to detail and follow instruction.

I'm sure in hind sight he wishes he hadn't called it a dick move but Bill Self has no problem calling guys out that aren't performing to their ability on or off the court.

[ShadowHawg]

The problem is that kids coach obviously doesn't want his players adding an exclamation point. I agree with Self, but I just don't agree with Self doing it publicly, run the kid, sit the kid for a half or a game depending on how serious you view it, but don't break the motto that coaches themselves establish of "keeping it in the dressing room".

That's me too. It's his team. If he doesn't like that then he is well within his rights as coach to read the kid the entire riot act AND have a come to Jesus meeting. Just don't do it in public.