Recruiting

[cardsNhogs]

I know there is a basketball Recruiting forum but there isn't near the traffic. I would just like for one of you recruiting guys to give me a updated list of potential targets for 2017 to go along with Gafford. Thanks in advance.

[The_Iceman]

Daniel Gafford

Khalil Garland

S.K. Shittu

Darius Hall

Brandon Rachal


That's the only names I know of as of now.

[Danny J]

This staff has always been pretty hush hush in terms of recruiting but I would like to know are there any other guys out there for the 2016 class that have shown any interest.......

[rude1]

Don't know who all is on the list but it is IMO a very important class for this staff. There appears to be enough talent on hand with the Jucos coming in next year to have a solid team for a couple of seasons, but without the lack of high level high school talent being brought in to keep the ship floating, we might see a quick spike up in wins for a couple of season then back to what we see now. Staff has to do a better job of selling the program to high level high school recruits if they are going to build it where it can be sustained.

[The_Iceman]

Don't know who all is on the list but it is IMO a very important class for this staff. There appears to be enough talent on hand with the Jucos coming in next year to have a solid team for a couple of seasons, but without the lack of high level high school talent being brought in to keep the ship floating, we might see a quick spike up in wins for a couple of season then back to what we see now. Staff has to do a better job of selling the program to high level high school recruits if they are going to build it where it can be sustained.

Gonna have to replace Moses Kingsley, Dusty Hannahs, and Manny Watkins with the 2017 class. Not a lot of players, but a lot of production. We need to get a good shooter in this class for sure. Gafford will replace Kingsley, but we may need to get another forward to develop as well (Shittu).

We need to get some experience in place because the 2018 class is going to be huge. Losing Barford, Macon, Cook, Thomas, Thompson, and Beard.

[gmarv]

Daniel Gafford

Khalil Gafford

S.K. Shittu

Darius Hall

Brandon Rachal


That's the only names I know of as of now.

how many of these are Arkansas kids?

[TomBigBeeHog]

Daniel Gafford

Khalil Gafford

S.K. Shittu

Darius Hall

Brandon Rachal


That's the only names I know of as of now.

Khalil Garland. I know you already know Ice. Just a correction for someone who may try to look up some info.

[RaisinHog]

how many of these are Arkansas kids?

4 in state 1 from Louisiana

[gmarv]

4 in state 1 from Louisiana

thanks.

[Danny J]

Don't know who all is on the list but it is IMO a very important class for this staff. There appears to be enough talent on hand with the Jucos coming in next year to have a solid team for a couple of seasons, but without the lack of high level high school talent being brought in to keep the ship floating, we might see a quick spike up in wins for a couple of season then back to what we see now. Staff has to do a better job of selling the program to high level high school recruits if they are going to build it where it can be sustained.

Exactly what is worrying me also....we need more freshman that are willing to stay 4 years.....

[labb]

"Exactly what is worrying me also....we need more freshman that are willing to stay 4 years..."

So are you saying you would rather have a lower rated kid that will stay 4 years than a one and done?  ie:  the Monk kid.

[Danny J]

"Exactly what is worrying me also....we need more freshman that are willing to stay 4 years..."

So are you saying you would rather have a lower rated kid that will stay 4 years than a one and done?  ie:  the Monk kid.

No...I am saying I would rather have guys like BJ, Qualls, Kingsley, etc...stay for 4 years and add a guy like Monk(who wouldn't want Monk) or a Portis to those guys. Our most talented players since CMA has been here have all left early. It appears that our best bet at one of these legitimately super talented All SEC first team players staying for 4 years is going to be Kingsley. We need more like him. I think Whitt can turn into that and I am glad we got him. We have had transfers out every year and had at least one transfer in every year.

[labb]

So what would you think of 3 of the top 5 JCAA's instead of one and done's? It is a real balancing act. If you can get overachieving 3 and 4 stars that get better ever season and stay all 4 years then I think you end up with a better team than a team that is made up of one and done's. Makes one be really good at judging talent. AS for Moses, he did not look like much of a BB player his first two years. Now he looks like an AA. Who would have ever thought it.

[Danny J]

So what would you think of 3 of the top 5 JCAA's instead of one and done's? It is a real balancing act. If you can get overachieving 3 and 4 stars that get better ever season and stay all 4 years then I think you end up with a better team than a team that is made up of one and done's. Makes one be really good at judging talent. AS for Moses, he did not look like much of a BB player his first two years. Now he looks like an AA. Who would have ever thought it.

It really is hard to say depending on the players we are talking about. Just so many variables. I think however I would try and sign as many freshman as possible and fill spots as needed with top JUCO talent or transfers where we can.

[labb]

I think you are right. The next two or three recruiting classes are going to be interesting to see. Some really good in state kids coming up. Hope we can land them.

[ShadowHawg]

No...I am saying I would rather have guys like BJ, Qualls, Kingsley, etc...stay for 4 years and add a guy like Monk(who wouldn't want Monk) or a Portis to those guys.

You just named 3 guys, of which, two left early and one still could. We would all like for BJ and Qualls types to stay 4 years but they don't anymore.

I think 3 is a lot these days and 2 isn't unusual. It's a very small window of opportunity with High School players anymore. Not so sure that moving toward more JUCOs on our roster might not be a bad thing after all when you consider that if you are only going to have good players for 2 years that you are at least getting them while they are more physically developed. Just thinking out loud.

[cc]

4-5 guys spread over the next three years good enough to go after Junior year.  Here long enough to contribute solidly but obvious All-Sec types.  Maybe a superstar type that is one or two and done every couple of years.  We know Mike can get solid role players.

I don't know Mike's plan, but hope he accomplishes it.  If he does, we will have a program that all will be proud of.

[cardsNhogs]

Don't know who all is on the list but it is IMO a very important class for this staff. There appears to be enough talent on hand with the Jucos coming in next year to have a solid team for a couple of seasons, but without the lack of high level high school talent being brought in to keep the ship floating, we might see a quick spike up in wins for a couple of season then back to what we see now. Staff has to do a better job of selling the program to high level high school recruits if they are going to build it where it can be sustained.

2017 is huge!

[Jonteviosk]

Any chance we could land John Petty

[The_Iceman]

Any chance we could land John Petty

There isn't even a dumb and dumber chance. Not with our staff.

[RaisinHog]

Anybody ever think a kid like barford could essentially be a 1 and done from juco I mean he is NBA point guard size

[dsims2k3]

There isn't even a dumb and dumber chance. Not with our staff.

Question:

If we look back at history, why is it that when we miss out on a big time hoops player (Allen, Goodwin, etc.), 8 times out of ten the coaching staff is to blame?  When we miss out on a big time football player (Frazier, Dyer, Tenpenny, Hill)  the blame is laid more on the recruit for not wanting to be a hog? Some even wish for them to fail. Football has a bigger selling point but some still leave. Not to say that there shouldn't be any accountability, but some kids regardless of the sport just want to leave the state.   

   

[ShadowHawg]

Question:

If we look back at history, why is it that when we miss out on a big time hoops player (Allen, Goodwin, etc.), 8 times out of ten the coaching staff is to blame?  When we miss out on a big time football player (Frazier, Dyer, Tenpenny, Hill)  the blame is laid more on the recruit for not wanting to be a hog? Some even wish for them to fail. Football has a bigger selling point but some still leave. Not to say that there shouldn't be any accountability, but some kids regardless of the sport just want to leave the state.   

Mike Irwin has said on Bo's show that KA told the coaching staff he wasn't interested in staying in Arkansas. Not, I am considering leaving, I might go elsewhere, give me a reason to stay.............none of that. He says his stepdad wanted him to stay home but KA was NEVER interested.

When you understand that KA had been a standout since he was 13 and actually fell off a little as he got closer to decision day then you see that it wasn't "this staff" that turned KA off. HE WAS NEVER INTERESTED!

But some people don't want to see that with regards to our basketball program because it means we have to face some hard facts about what the program has really been for the last 20 years. KA isn't even 20 years old so he doesn't have any ties to the Eddie/Nolan Razorback program that a lot of us fans do.

The good news is that when we get back to sustaining success that is very likely to change. Until then, we are all going to be frustrated on some level.

[The_Iceman]

The good news is that when we get back to sustaining success that is very likely to change. Until then, we are all going to be frustrated on some level.

Well, Mike had the chance to better appeal to Allen with "sustained success" by closing out the 2013-2014 season against two .500 teams in Alabama and South Carolina, instead he blew those two games and ended up in the NIT instead of the NCAA tournament.

He blew the chance at getting back-to-back tournament appearances and using that to sell to recruits. But we give him a break for his failure at the end of 13-14 because he won 27 games in 14-15 and won one game in the NCAA tournament. We give him a break for having a .500 team in 2015-2016 and for signing the last ranked recruiting class in the SEC because he won 27 games last year and his team looks like they are playing hard.

I'm sorry for setting expectations at the level that Mike wanted us to set them when he arrived, and for holding to the expectations 95% of Hogville had for Mike when he was hired, instead of pandering and making excuses for his lack of success here.

[rude1]

Well, Mike had the chance to better appeal to Allen with "sustained success" by closing out the 2013-2014 season against two .500 teams in Alabama and South Carolina, instead he blew those two games and ended up in the NIT instead of the NCAA tournament.

He blew the chance at getting back-to-back tournament appearances and using that to sell to recruits. But we give him a break for his failure at the end of 13-14 because he won 27 games in 14-15 and won one game in the NCAA tournament. We give him a break for having a .500 team in 2015-2016 and for signing the last ranked recruiting class in the SEC because he won 27 games last year and his team looks like they are playing hard.

I'm sorry for setting expectations at the level that Mike wanted us to set them when he arrived, and for holding to the expectations 95% of Hogville had for Mike when he was hired, instead of pandering and making excuses for his lack of success here.

A final four visit wasn't going to bring KA. He had made his mind up long ago that he was leaving the state to go to college and play ball. It wasn't anything personal against the program or the staff, it was just what he wanted to do. I am glad that he let his intent be known rather than making the staff waste time recruiting him hard when he knew there was no way he was coming.

[ShadowHawg]

Well, Mike had the chance to better appeal to Allen with "sustained success" by closing out the 2013-2014 season against two .500 teams in Alabama and South Carolina, instead he blew those two games and ended up in the NIT instead of the NCAA tournament.

He blew the chance at getting back-to-back tournament appearances and using that to sell to recruits. But we give him a break for his failure at the end of 13-14 because he won 27 games in 14-15 and won one game in the NCAA tournament. We give him a break for having a .500 team in 2015-2016 and for signing the last ranked recruiting class in the SEC because he won 27 games last year and his team looks like they are playing hard.

I'm sorry for setting expectations at the level that Mike wanted us to set them when he arrived, and for holding to the expectations 95% of Hogville had for Mike when he was hired, instead of pandering and making excuses for his lack of success here.

What Rude said.

[wheelspigharvey]

I'm officially tired of hearing about the kids that didn't want to be Hogs.  Would have liked to have had them but whatever.  When I was in high school, I didn't really want to go to the U of A because I didn't want to do the "easy" or "expected" thing.  I suspect that hasn't changed in 15 years. 

We KNOW now that it has nothing to do with Mike's actual ability to turn kids into good players, and that's really the only thing we can even see and evaluate.  Most of the other stuff is speculation.

Bobby Portis, Dusty Hannahs, Alandise Harris, Jaylen Barford, Rashad Madden, Anton Beard, Daniel Gafford, Trey Thompson.  Those are the kids who deserve our attention and praise as fans.  If we want to watch Kevaughn Allen we know where to look.

[The_Iceman]

What Rude said.

I see you deleted your original post, where you talked about the 2013-2014 team not being a good team. So, when a team is sitting at the end of the year with two bad .500 teams in front of them, and all they have to do is win those games and they are in the NCAA tournament, and the coach gets blown out in one and underachieves in the other.....you see that as being just fine?

[TomBigBeeHog]

I see you deleted your original post, where you talked about the 2013-2014 team not being a good team. So, when a team is sitting at the end of the year with two bad .500 teams in front of them, and all they have to do is win those games and they are in the NCAA tournament, and the coach gets blown out in one and underachieves in the other.....you see that as being just fine?

Neither of those 2 things happened. . Coaches provide structure. Players make plays.

[hogsanity]

College teams need a mix of 4 year role player types, guys who are above average but still likely to stay for at least 3 years, and then grab a 1 and done or 2 and done when given the chance.

[ShadowHawg]

I see you deleted your original post, where you talked about the 2013-2014 team not being a good team. So, when a team is sitting at the end of the year with two bad .500 teams in front of them, and all they have to do is win those games and they are in the NCAA tournament, and the coach gets blown out in one and underachieves in the other.....you see that as being just fine?

I am beginning to think the bitter label is really good fit after all.

You are mad that we lost games? One on the road. I guess you would have been happier with a close loss in that one? The other loss was where me missed a last second shot attempt against a team that had beaten one of the National Championship finalists by 30+ the week before.

That wasn't a great team. That was a team whose difference makers were very young and with noone on the roster who had ever even played in an NIT game much less closed out a NCAA berth prior to the conference tournament.

Youth = Inconsistent.
Youth + No Post Season Experience = Rebuilding
Youth + No Post Season Experience + Arkansas = Disaster

But you think we underachieved? You really are one of those who is lost in the Razorback past. You wouldn't happen to wear your hair in a Mullet? Just curious.

[wheelspigharvey]

The first couple of seasons were more about where we were than where we are going.  13/14 made a post-season.  This season will be three in a row.

[Jonteviosk]

Ice your cool and all but im not gonna take your word for Petty considering you basically think Thomas is 6'1 and Cooke 6'4 lol Anyone else where is Petty leaning towards?

[cc]

College teams need a mix of 4 year role player types, guys who are above average but still likely to stay for at least 3 years, and then grab a 1 and done or 2 and done when given the chance.

Exactly what I was saying a few posts up.  Think you may have explained it better.

[Pork Twain]

Neither of those 2 things happened. . Coaches provide structure. Players make plays.

Wow...so now we are going to remove all blame from the coaches for how the games play out?

[The_Iceman]

Ice your cool and all but im not gonna take your word for Petty considering you basically think Thomas is 6'1 and Cooke 6'4 lol Anyone else where is Petty leaning towards?

What the hell are you talking about? We have zero shot at Petty, its either Kentucky, Alabama, or Auburn for him most likely. We don't have a shot.

[azhog10]

I think folks should be more understanding in regards to recruiting. I mean we live in a state that doesn't produce as much talent as other states do so things are a lot harder for the staff........


sarcasm off

[TomBigBeeHog]

I think folks should be more understanding in regards to recruiting. I mean we live in a state that doesn't produce as much talent as other states do so things are a lot harder for the staff........


sarcasm off

I seem to hear that a lot in certain circles. Sure were a lot of justifications made yesterday. 

[hogsanity]

I think folks should be more understanding in regards to recruiting. I mean we live in a state that doesn't produce as much talent as other states do so things are a lot harder for the staff........


sarcasm off

It does make it harder. And it is even more difficult when your state does produce high level talent and you cant sign them.

I seem to hear that a lot in certain circles. Sure were a lot of justifications made yesterday. 

Are some of you simply incapable of talking about basketball on its own? Because sure, it is much harder to field a roster of 12-15 as opposed to 85.

[Danny J]

I think folks should be more understanding in regards to recruiting. I mean we live in a state that doesn't produce as much talent as other states do so things are a lot harder for the staff........


sarcasm off

I know....funny how that works in regards to fball v. Bball

[TomBigBeeHog]

It does make it harder. And it is even more difficult when your state does produce high level talent and you cant sign them.

Are some of you simply incapable of talking about basketball on its own? Because sure, it is much harder to field a roster of 12-15 as opposed to 85.

Yea same old song and dance. Hopefully we can catch some lucky breaks next year or have a superstar emerge to improve our brand so we can start getting some of these guys. Only other option is to start big time cheating.  Otherwise CBB is a good coach and I'm pretty ok with 7-8 win seasons.

[hogsanity]

What instate guys that the Hogs recruited hard did they lose this year in football? To my knowledge there was no Tenpenny or Dyer type defection in the football calls this year.

[Captain Morgan]

What instate guys that the Hogs recruited hard did they lose this year in football? To my knowledge there was no Tenpenny or Dyer type defection in the football calls this year.

HogSanity, TommyBeeHog is still upset we lost Ohio State's waterboy/bench warmer KJ Hill. KJ Hill is just another guy at that school. The cheating program in Columbus brings in 3 of him every year. So it's not our loss it's his.

Losing guys like AJ Walton, Archie Goodwin, KeVaughn Allen and Malik Monk were daggers towards the basketball program. The only way to get back to sweet sixteen level is from now on to have no tolerance by the fans and administrators on missing instate blue chippers.

[TomBigBeeHog]

What instate guys that the Hogs recruited hard did they lose this year in football? To my knowledge there was no Tenpenny or Dyer type defection in the football calls this year.

You forgot KJ Hill who committed and then left for O State. Ironically, this was the guy who claimed he could deliver Allen for the bball team.

Most of the elite high school athletes have left the state in recent years and not just in bball. Although that's what you would think from some of the comments on here.

[Captain Morgan]

You forgot KJ Hill who committed and then left for O State. Ironically, this was the guy who claimed he could deliver Allen for the bball team.

Most of the elite high school athletes have left the state in recent years and not just in bball. Although that's what you would think from some of the comments on here.

Tell me what KJ Hill has done in College football other than sit on the bench?

Maybe he wasn't really as good as he was hyped up to be.

KeVaughn Allen is every bit the hype we heard.

[TomBigBeeHog]

HogSanity, TommyBeeHog is still upset we lost Ohio State's waterboy/bench warmer KJ Hill. KJ Hill is just another guy at that school. The cheating program in Columbus brings in 3 of him every year. So it's not our loss it's his.

Losing guys like AJ Walton, Archie Goodwin, KeVaughn Allen and Malik Monk were daggers towards the basketball program. The only way to get back to sweet sixteen level is from now on to have no tolerance by the fans and administrators on missing instate blue chippers.

First off, if the administrators were to go "zero tolerance" on CMA missing instate blue chippers they would have to do the same to CBB or the program could wind up in federal court again. Of course, no one is that stupid except for... well I hope you get my drift.

Secondly, who is AJ Walton and how was he a dagger toward our program?

Thirdly, stop drinking Razorback Guy we all know its you.

[Captain Morgan]

First off, if the administrators were to go "zero tolerance" on CMA missing instate blue chippers they would have to do the same to CBB or the program could wind up in federal court again. Of course, no one is that stupid except for... well I hope you get my drift.

Secondly, who is AJ Walton and how was he a dagger toward our program?

Thirdly, stop drinking Razorback Guy we all know its you.

Pretty sad if someone is drinking at 7:50 am. That's called someone that has problems.

I still haven't gotten your opinion on KJ Hill the golden boy that never plays. If he was a can't miss then he would have played last year?

Basketball recruiting rankings are more accurate than football because you get to see them all play in AAU. In AAU they play from 14-18 years of age against other future college players. Football recruiting is more of a guessing game. Basketball is not.

[azhog10]

What instate guys that the Hogs recruited hard did they lose this year in football? To my knowledge there was no Tenpenny or Dyer type defection in the football calls this year.

Josh Frazier, KJ, Zac Brooks (not CBB but still we lost him) Tenpenny, just to name a few.

[The_Iceman]

Josh Frazier, KJ, Zac Brooks (not CBB but still we lost him) Tenpenny, just to name a few.

At least when we lost Josh Frazier and Tenpenny, we had a 4-star DT and 5-star RB already committed. With KJ, we ended up with Dion Stewart, Pettway, and Dominique Reed. So despite the lost, we covered very well.

[Captain Morgan]

At least when we lost Josh Frazier and Tenpenny, we had a 4-star DT and 5-star RB already committed. With KJ, we ended up with Dion Stewart, Pettway, and Dominique Reed. So despite the lost, we covered very well.

IceMan, I'm willing to put a wager that 2 of those guys will have better college career than KJ Hill.