Culture of Losing

[ShadowHawg]

This year stinks for sure. I don't see how that can be argued. However, I don't get the crowd that believes NOTHING has changed from the decade prior to MA's arrival and that this program should be hitting on all cylinders already.

A decade of losing creates a culture around a program. Arkansas was the 3rd worst performing SEC program during the last year of Nolan, then the Heath and Pelphrey eras. Only Auburn and South Carolina were worse and not by much.

This team is not winning, but they are fighting every night and have only been blown out in 2 games to this point. Heath and Pel's teams constantly struggled to look like they were even competing.

Arkansas has NEVER been a program that could absorb early departures either. So why is it so surprising that the early departure of our top 2 players left us thin on difference makers? The only time we have ever had a decent season after early departure of our difference makers was 96-97 and that was because Darnell Robinson carried us to the Sweet 16 after we were the final team to make the field.

Then we he left early we made the NIT the following season. After Joe Johnson left we didn't even make post season play. Now we lose 2 top guys and Madden and people are acting like the program is being run negligently. I don't get it given looking at the actual history of the program.

[BRHogfan]

We lost 4 starters, didn't have another starter for the first half of the season, and lost a key contributor off the bench.

This is a similar season to 2008-09 when Pelphrey lost 4 starters and 3 bench contributors from the previous season.  Granted that 2007-2008 team sneaked into the NCAA tournament after a surprising run in the SEC tournament.  Surprisingly enough, the 2008-09 team looked like world beaters until they got in conference play and went 2-14.  That team didn't have a losing record until March, but didn't win any conference road games and got mostly blown out in even home games. 

I think the best thing to hope for next season is that we return some guys that played well this season, but are going to be very very hungry for 2016-17. 

I still think this team can get hot and make some noise this March though.

[The_Iceman]

We lost 4 starters, didn't have another starter for the first half of the season, and lost a key contributor off the bench.

The 2016 Lineup/Roster when the 2015 season ended:

Beard / Durham
Bell / Hannahs
Babb / Whitt / Watkins
Williams / Miles / Thompson
Kingsley / Kapita

The 2016 Rosters when the season started:

Durham / Watkins / Beard (suspended)
Bell / Hannahs
Whitt / Jenkins
Miles / Thompson
Kingsley / Kouassi


This season could have been a pretty good season. Probably high NIT seed or bubble NCAA team if a lot of things went well. But this rosters collapsed under Mike's leadership this summer into what we see now, that is 9-10 on the season.

[ShadowHawg]

The 2016 Lineup/Roster when the 2015 season ended:

Beard / Durham
Bell / Hannahs
Babb / Whitt / Watkins
Williams / Miles / Thompson
Kingsley / Kapita

The 2016 Rosters when the season started:

Durham / Watkins / Beard (suspended)
Bell / Hannahs
Whitt / Jenkins
Miles / Thompson
Kingsley / Kouassi


This season could have been a pretty good season. Probably high NIT seed or bubble NCAA team if a lot of things went well. But this rosters collapsed under Mike's leadership this summer into what we see now, that is 9-10 on the season.

??

You honestly believed that this team was a post season team for sure. NIT was this team's ceiling at best and that isn't out of the question yet.

[The_Iceman]

??

You honestly believed that this team was a post season team for sure. NIT was this team's ceiling at best and that isn't out of the question yet.

This team was a postseason team with the roster that was projected to be here when last season ended. It is barely an NIT team with the roster we started the season with. The offseason was a disaster.

[Biggus Piggus]

This team was a postseason team with the roster that was projected to be here when last season ended. It is barely an NIT team with the roster we started the season with. The offseason was a disaster.

[ShadowHawg]

This team was a postseason team with the roster that was projected to be here when last season ended. It is barely an NIT team with the roster we started the season with. The offseason was a disaster.

Again, using history as the best indicator or future performance, what made you or anyone else believe that this season should have made for a post season run?

You are cherry picking. The loss of BOTH Qualls and Portis doomed this season's roster whether Kapita had made it, Jacorey Williams hadn't been dismissed, and Babb stayed.

None of those guys are difference makers and as I pointed out, when we lose our difference makers, the next season is a bust all times but ONE.

Maybe you should have looked at the historical performance of our program BEFORE forming your opinion.

[Hogsmo Kramer]

This team was a postseason team with the roster that was projected to be here when last season ended. It is barely an NIT team with the roster we started the season with. The offseason was a disaster.

Agree and ultimately that falls at the feet of one man.

Sure others had a hand, but in instances like that the crap rolls uphill as it should.

[The_Iceman]

Again, using history as the best indicator or future performance, what made you or anyone else believe that this season should have made for a post season run?

You are cherry picking. The loss of BOTH Qualls and Portis doomed this season's roster whether Kapita had made it, Jacorey Williams hadn't been dismissed, and Babb stayed.

None of those guys are difference makers and as I pointed out, when we lose our difference makers, the next season is a bust all times but ONE.

Maybe you should have looked at the historical performance of our program BEFORE forming your opinion.

Why did the loss of Portis and Qualls doom the roster?

Kingsley is averaging 16.4ppg, 9.3rpg, 2.7blks. Portis averaged 17.5/8.9/1.4.
Hannahs is averaging 16.6 ppg on 47% from 3pt. Qualls averaged 15.9 ppg.

The players developed and stepped up once given the opportunity. Babb is one that had all the talent to take a leap forward this year, and Williams may have done the same like Bell did. Kapita would have filled Moses's role last year. The difference with this team is depth and the "4" or forward position. You say "none of those guys are difference makers", but would you have said that about Kingsley, Hannahs, Durham, or Bell going into this year?

The NIT was almost for sure with the roster we were projected to have once last season ended, maybe even the NCAA bubble when looking at the SEC and how we played against Stanford, GT, Dayton, etc. We just needed a few more pieces in those games.

But Mike is the coach and he is responsible for the roster, and he didn't put a good or deep enough one on the floor this year.

[Atlhogfan1]

Why did the loss of Portis and Qualls doom the roster?

Kingsley is averaging 16.4ppg, 9.3rpg, 2.7blks. Portis averaged 17.5/8.9/1.4.
Hannahs is averaging 16.6 ppg on 47% from 3pt. Qualls averaged 15.9 ppg.

The players developed and stepped up once given the opportunity. Babb is one that had all the talent to take a leap forward this year, and Williams may have done the same like Bell did. Kapita would have filled Moses's role last year. The difference with this team is depth and the "4" or forward position. The NIT was almost for sure with the roster we were projected to have once last season ended, maybe even the NCAA bubble when looking at the SEC and how we played against Stanford, GT, Dayton, etc. We just needed a few more pieces in those games.

But Mike is the coach and he is responsible for the roster, and he didn't put a good or deep enough one on the floor this year.

Simply put: more and a little better depth.

[ShadowHawg]

So let's get this straight, when Portis and Qualls left had Jacorey Williams, Kapita, and Babb been here we were a NCAA team?

Babb didn't even see the court, Williams was maligned by a lot of fans, and Kapita was coming off an injury.

Were Qualls and Portis that weak?

[Hogsmo Kramer]

Why did the loss of Portis and Qualls doom the roster?

Kingsley is averaging 16.4ppg, 9.3rpg, 2.7blks. Portis averaged 17.5/8.9/1.4.
Hannahs is averaging 16.6 ppg on 47% from 3pt. Qualls averaged 15.9 ppg.

The players developed and stepped up once given the opportunity. Babb is one that had all the talent to take a leap forward this year, and Williams may have done the same like Bell did. Kapita would have filled Moses's role last year. The difference with this team is depth and the "4" or forward position. You say "none of those guys are difference makers", but would you have said that about Kingsley, Hannahs, Durham, or Bell going into this year?

The NIT was almost for sure with the roster we were projected to have once last season ended, maybe even the NCAA bubble when looking at the SEC and how we played against Stanford, GT, Dayton, etc. We just needed a few more pieces in those games.

But Mike is the coach and he is responsible for the roster, and he didn't put a good or deep enough one on the floor this year.

So let's get this straight, when Portis and Qualls left had Jacorey Williams, Kapita, and Babb been here we were a NCAA team?

Babb didn't even see the court, Williams was maligned by a lot of fans, and Kapita was coming off an injury.

Were Qualls and Portis that weak?

[The_Iceman]

So let's get this straight, when Portis and Qualls left had Jacorey Williams, Kapita, and Babb been here we were a NCAA team?

Babb didn't even see the court, Williams was maligned by a lot of fans, and Kapita was coming off an injury.

Were Qualls and Portis that weak?

You are thinking as if Jacorey, Babb, and Kapita were replacing Portis and Qualls. Kingsley replaced Portis's production and Hannahs replaced Qualls. Jacorey, Babb, and Kapita were replacing the roles of guys like Alandis Harris, Ky Madden, and Moses Kingsley (who stepped into Portis's role).

Kingsley went from 3.6ppg to nearly 17ppg.
Bell went from 7ppg to nearly 17ppg.
Durham went from 1.8ppg and 1.4asts to 6.3ppg and 7.2asts.

And you don't think guys like Babb and Williams couldn't step up in 2016 and contribute more? Kapita couldn't come in and provide the same role Kingsley did? This program was in place leaving the 2015 season to still be a solid NIT team at worst, and maybe a bubble NCAA team if things went well. Look at the SEC, we'd probably be in the Top 3 or 4. But instead, under Mike's leadership everything crumbled and we are 9-10.

[wheelspigharvey]

You are thinking as if Jacorey, Babb, and Kapita were replacing Portis and Qualls. Kingsley replaced Portis's production and Hannahs replaced Qualls. Jacorey, Babb, and Kapita were replacing the roles of guys like Alandis Harris, Ky Madden, and Moses Kingsley (who stepped into Portis's role).

Kingsley went from 3.6ppg to nearly 17ppg.
Bell went from 7ppg to nearly 17ppg.
Durham went from 1.8ppg and 1.4asts to 6.3ppg and 7.2asts.

And you don't think guys like Babb and Williams couldn't step up in 2016 and contribute more? Kapita couldn't come in and provide the same role Kingsley did? This program was in place leaving the 2015 season to still be a solid NIT team at worst, and maybe a bubble NCAA team if things went well. Look at the SEC, we'd probably be in the Top 3 or 4. But instead, under Mike's leadership everything crumbled and we are 9-10.

I am with you on most of that, until the "under Mike's leadership we fell apart" part.  I see how the Babb and Kapita situations are his because he's the head coach, I just don't know what you expected him to do differently.

[hogsanity]

Heath and Pel's teams constantly struggled to look like they were even competing.

Yet Heath went to 2 NCAAT's and Pel one in as many or fewer seasons than Mike has had here.

[The_Iceman]

Yet Heath went to 2 NCAAT's and Pel one in as many or fewer seasons than Mike has had here.

Think what would have happened if Heath would have been given one more year? He would have likely had 3 straight NCAA appearances. Mike may never do that here at Arkansas.

[Kevin]

great another thread, propping up this program

[hogsanity]

Think what would have happened if Heath would have been given one more year? He would have likely had 3 straight NCAA appearances. Mike may never do that here at Arkansas.

I agree, had they not torpedoed Heath, Pels 1st team would have been Heaths and he would have made it 3 straight.

I think Mike might make 3 straight NCAAT at some point, likely preceded and followed by multiple years like this one.

[The_Iceman]

I am with you on most of that, until the "under Mike's leadership we fell apart" part.  I see how the Babb and Kapita situations are his because he's the head coach, I just don't know what you expected him to do differently.

Well, these are all the guys we offered scholarships to in 2015. So maybe land a couple more of those to start. Maybe finish our the 2013-2014 season strong and make the NCAA tournament to give this program more credibility, instead of losing badly to two sub .500 teams and only making the NIT. There is a lot of things Mike could have done differently.

http://arkansas.247sports.com/Season/2015-Basketball/Offers

[wheelspigharvey]

I agree, had they not torpedoed Heath, Pels 1st team would have been Heaths and he would have made it 3 straight.

I think Mike might make 3 straight NCAAT at some point, likely preceded and followed by multiple years like this one.

Just need to make this clear that when people discuss the whole "keep him or not" thing (we're keeping him, get over it) not everyone who likes Mike thinks that the administration handled the Heath and Pelphrey eras perfectly.  You can accept that Mike is getting more time and look forward to the fact that we will be very good again very quickly and simultaneously understand that maybe neither of those dudes got the fairest hand dealt by the bosses or the most just letting-go. 

[The_Iceman]

Just need to make this clear that when people discuss the whole "keep him or not" thing (we're keeping him, get over it) not everyone who likes Mike thinks that the administration handled the Heath and Pelphrey eras perfectly.  You can accept that Mike is getting more time and look forward to the fact that we will be very good again very quickly and simultaneously understand that maybe neither of those dudes got the fairest hand dealt by the bosses or the most just letting-go. 

I don't even think Mike should be fired. I just don't like it that people just make excuses for him and tolerate what is going on this season with our program. We could and SHOULD be better than we are now, and it is Mike responsibility that we are not.

[Hogsmo Kramer]

Just need to make this clear that when people discuss the whole "keep him or not" thing (we're keeping him, get over it) not everyone who likes Mike thinks that the administration handled the Heath and Pelphrey eras perfectly.  You can accept that Mike is getting more time and look forward to the fact that we will be very good again very quickly and simultaneously understand that maybe neither of those dudes got the fairest hand dealt by the bosses or the most just letting-go.

I've seen nothing that would guarantee "we will be very good again very quickly".

It's year 5 and we are likely going to miss the postseason entirely, not sure where your confidence is coming from.

Guess we'll see but I hope you're right.

[hogsanity]

Just need to make this clear that when people discuss the whole "keep him or not" thing (we're keeping him, get over it) not everyone who likes Mike thinks that the administration handled the Heath and Pelphrey eras perfectly.  You can accept that Mike is getting more time and look forward to the fact that we will be very good again very quickly and simultaneously understand that maybe neither of those dudes got the fairest hand dealt by the bosses or the most just letting-go. 

Good again quickly would have been Mike coming in and in yr 2 making the nit, year 3 the ncaat and in yr 4 at least the sweet. What we are looking at are people looking ahead to yr 6 or 7 to just get back to the ncaat, that is not quick in todays college bball landscape.

I do agree with pretty much the rest of your post.

[BRHogfan]

I agree, had they not torpedoed Heath, Pels 1st team would have been Heaths and he would have made it 3 straight.

I think Mike might make 3 straight NCAAT at some point, likely preceded and followed by multiple years like this one.

Heath got torpedoed because he played a boring brand of basketball.  It always seemed like every season was done, and then they would rattle off 5 or 6 straight wins that would take them from bubble team to in the NCAA tournament.  He HAD to win SEC tournament games to make the dance. 

In 2006, we were 16-8 (5-6) with #10 Florida in town.  We were ahead to entire game, let them come back to force OT and then won.  We then won 6 straight games to get into the dance, and played this horrible game against Bucknell. 

In 2007, we were not going to be in the NCAA tournament, but Heath managed to win 3 games in the SEC tourney.  I think Heath really lost his job in the Tennessee game, which was a home loss in which we turned it over 24 times to a team that pressed and played uptempo basketball.  After getting into the NCAA tournament, I think Heath had one more chance if he could win a tournament game, but he couldn't... so he was out.

[hogsanity]

Heath got torpedoed because he played a boring brand of basketball.  It always seemed like every season was done, and then they would rattle off 5 or 6 straight wins that would take them from bubble team to in the NCAA tournament.  He HAD to win SEC tournament games to make the dance. 

In 2006, we were 16-8 (5-6) with #10 Florida in town.  We were ahead to entire game, let them come back to force OT and then won.  We then won 6 straight games to get into the dance, and played this horrible game against Bucknell. 

In 2007, we were not going to be in the NCAA tournament, but Heath managed to win 3 games in the SEC tourney.  I think Heath really lost his job in the Tennessee game, which was a home loss in which we turned it over 24 times to a team that pressed and played uptempo basketball.  After getting into the NCAA tournament, I think Heath had one more chance if he could win a tournament game, but he couldn't... so he was out.

actually, he lost his job because some ptb at the time thought they had a deal for Gillespie, but then KY up and hired him and it was a disaster.

As for boring, in college basketball there is not much more boring than sitting home during the ncaat.

[BRHogfan]

actually, he lost his job because some ptb at the time thought they had a deal for Gillespie, but then KY up and hired him and it was a disaster.

As for boring, in college basketball there is not much more boring than sitting home during the ncaat.

I understand your theory, but you can't deny that some of Heath being asked to leave was lackluster offensive outputs coupled with people missing Nolan's style.

Though to be fair, Dana Altman was not going to be that, but I think that's part of how Pelphrey got the job because he said he would play that way. 

[Atlhogfan1]

Heath got torpedoed because he played a boring brand of basketball.  It always seemed like every season was done, and then they would rattle off 5 or 6 straight wins that would take them from bubble team to in the NCAA tournament.  He HAD to win SEC tournament games to make the dance. 

In 2006, we were 16-8 (5-6) with #10 Florida in town.  We were ahead to entire game, let them come back to force OT and then won.  We then won 6 straight games to get into the dance, and played this horrible game against Bucknell. 

In 2007, we were not going to be in the NCAA tournament, but Heath managed to win 3 games in the SEC tourney.  I think Heath really lost his job in the Tennessee game, which was a home loss in which we turned it over 24 times to a team that pressed and played uptempo basketball.  After getting into the NCAA tournament, I think Heath had one more chance if he could win a tournament game, but he couldn't... so he was out.

This was ignorant "weight" added to the anchor a portion of the fan base created.  "I only want to win with Hawg Ball.  I have to have my Hawg Ball back.  UAB, Mizzou has our Hawg Ball." 

[Atlhogfan1]

I understand your theory, but you can't deny that some of Heath being asked to leave was lackluster offensive outputs coupled with people missing Nolan's style.

Though to be fair, Dana Altman was not going to be that, but I think that's part of how Pelphrey got the job because he said he would play that way.

Altman doesn't play slow paced basketball.  Heath's would have been different as well had he been able to recruit better guards and had his "Jason Richardson finisher" not blown out his knee before making it to campus.  Billy G would have been the most half court slow down pace. 

[BRHogfan]

This was ignorant "weight" added to the anchor a portion of the fan base created.  "I only want to win with Hawg Ball.  I have to have my Hawg Ball back.  UAB, Mizzou has our Hawg Ball."

Maybe I should've put quotes on "boring brand of basketball".  I was a student when Stan Heath had his last three years.  I had a great time going to the SEC tournament with the runs he would put on late in the season.  It was exciting.  I was in the band, and we would play "The Heat(h) is On" for him when he came back out for his post game radio interview.  I still remember hearing some people sing "Stan Heath is gone" to the same tune after that Tennessee loss. 

Many fans were upset seeing a guy with personality on the other sideline winning with a brand of basketball that was more in line with what they felt like the Hogs should be running. 

[BRHogfan]

Altman doesn't play slow paced basketball.  Heath's would have been different as well had he been able to recruit better guards and had his "Jason Richardson finisher" not blown out his knee before making it to campus.  Billy G would have been the most half court slow down pace.

Sorry, you're right on that.  I don't know why I had him lumped that way in my head. 

I know I've said it twice already, but I feel like Bruce Pearl was one of the leading factors to Heath getting canned.  The 2006-07 season was the highest steal rate for Arkansas opponents in any season but 1995-1996.  We were getting out Hogballed in the opinion of many at the time.

http://www.hogstats.com/cool-stuff/arkansas-basketball-steal-rate.php

[hogsanity]

This was ignorant "weight" added to the anchor a portion of the fan base created.  "I only want to win with Hawg Ball.  I have to have my Hawg Ball back.  UAB, Mizzou has our Hawg Ball." 

100% correct. and now over a decade later they still cling to that.

[Atlhogfan1]

Sorry, you're right on that.  I don't know why I had him lumped that way in my head. 

I know I've said it twice already, but I feel like Bruce Pearl was one of the leading factors to Heath getting canned.

Chris Lofton - Buzz got a steal in recruiting and Pearl benefited from it as his shooting ability helped drive pace and overcome the ugliness of Pearl Ball. 

[ShadowHawg]

Heath was let go for the same reason he is unemployed right now.

All he ever did was back into the NCAA and get us embarrassed in the first round. Then add the unbalanced recruiting and class room disaster he left behind there really is little argument for his retention.

[hogsanity]

Heath was let go for the same reason he is unemployed right now.

All he ever did was back into the NCAA and get us embarrassed in the first round. Then add the unbalanced recruiting and class room disaster he left behind there really is little argument for his retention.

Except that is not why he was let go here, at all.

[ShadowHawg]

Except that is not why he was let go here, at all.

So there weren't embarrassing losses, academic disaster, roster imbalances and you could add to that dwindling attendance due to not being in good position during the heart of the season, aka backing into the tournament.

Are you saying there was even more?

[Atlhogfan1]

Heath was let go for the same reason he is unemployed right now.

All he ever did was back into the NCAA and get us embarrassed in the first round. Then add the unbalanced recruiting and class room disaster he left behind there really is little argument for his retention.

Those were all more than justifiable reasons but not why. 

[ShadowHawg]

Those were all more than justifiable reasons but not why.

They were why. They might not have been the only reason. The Hawg Ball stuff is myth or Eddie Sutton wouldn't be as revered here as he is. Had Sutton followed Richardson people would have filled the bleachers regardless of style.

Heath was a horrible administrator and because his teams made late pushes instead of being consistent, there wasn't a whole lot excitement generated during the season when the home crowds have a chance to show up.

The only reason to keep Heath was maybe the tourney appearances but he got embarrassed in both of those. How much lower were you willing to go with the man?

[hogsanity]

So there weren't embarrassing losses, academic disaster, roster imbalances and you could add to that dwindling attendance due to not being in good position during the heart of the season, aka backing into the tournament.

Are you saying there was even more?

He was let go because they thought they had Gillespie locked up, otherwise there was no way they were going to fire a guy off back to back ncaat appearances. Winning several games in a row late is not backing into the tournament. Backing into the tournament is winning a bunch early then limping in with several losses late.

All of what describe could be used to day except for the academics.

[ShadowHawg]

He was let go because they thought they had Gillespie locked up, otherwise there was no way they were going to fire a guy off back to back ncaat appearances. Winning several games in a row late is not backing into the tournament. Backing into the tournament is winning a bunch early then limping in with several losses late.

All of what describe could be used to day except for the academics.

Not even close. Heath had a conference win % in the 30's. He was given a program that was turning out about 14k per home game and tanked that. He didn't have the best season of the last 20 years and was never solid in the tournament like last season's team.

Is it possible you just don't like our coach? Heath would have been let go regardless of Gillispie. They didn't contact him behind the scenes because they were happy with Heath. They were actively looking for a new coach and Gillispie was the hottest name out there at the time and we were in play, but Heath had the program in such bad shape that a solid coach like Altman wouldn't even stick around to try and REHAB it.

How much lower do you think the PTB were willing to go with Heath?

[Atlhogfan1]

They were why. They might not have been the only reason. The Hawg Ball stuff is myth or Eddie Sutton wouldn't be as revered here as he is. Had Sutton followed Richardson people would have filled the bleachers regardless of style.

Heath was a horrible administrator and because his teams made late pushes instead of being consistent, there wasn't a whole lot excitement generated during the season when the home crowds have a chance to show up.

The only reason to keep Heath was maybe the tourney appearances but he got embarrassed in both of those. How much lower were you willing to go with the man?

It is not a myth.

Heath was not ready for nor qualified for the job.  Change was fine with me at the time and especially in hindsight.

He was fired because a misguided group of boosters thought they could deliver Billy G and it failed when UK created their opening. 

[Atlhogfan1]

Not even close. Heath had a conference win % in the 30's. He was given a program that was turning out about 14k per home game and tanked that. He didn't have the best season of the last 20 years and was never solid in the tournament like last season's team.

Is it possible you just don't like our coach? Heath would have been let go regardless of Gillispie. They didn't contact him behind the scenes because they were happy with Heath. They were actively looking for a new coach and Gillispie was the hottest name out there at the time and we were in play, but Heath had the program in such bad shape that a solid coach like Altman wouldn't even stick around to try and REHAB it.

How much lower do you think the PTB were willing to go with Heath?

Heath would have made it another season and maybe more had it not been for the Billy G attempt.  You are making the argument he should have been fired.  Ok.  He probably wouldn't have been though. 

Are you continuing this as a defense of Anderson?

[Atlhogfan1]

They were why. They might not have been the only reason. The Hawg Ball stuff is myth or Eddie Sutton wouldn't be as revered here as he is. Had Sutton followed Richardson people would have filled the bleachers regardless of style.

Heath was a horrible administrator and because his teams made late pushes instead of being consistent, there wasn't a whole lot excitement generated during the season when the home crowds have a chance to show up.

The only reason to keep Heath was maybe the tourney appearances but he got embarrassed in both of those. How much lower were you willing to go with the man?

You are also wrong about the attendance.  Even weeknight SEC games were drawing large crowds.  The sellouts were no longer happening and waiting list was gone. 

[Kevin]

heath is an assistant at boston college. not unemployed

[lynbug]

Just a quick question.  From 1977 through 1997 Arkansas had quite a few top 25 teams and NCAA appearances.  From 1997 through now not so much.  In fact, it seems like a long and gradual descent.  Yes, I know the different possible reasons for that.  But.....does anyone know of another major college where something similar has happened?

[Atlhogfan1]

Just a quick question.  From 1977 through 1997 Arkansas had quite a few top 25 teams and NCAA appearances.  From 1997 through now not so much.  In fact, it seems like a long and gradual descent.  Yes, I know the different possible reasons for that.  But.....does anyone know of another major college where something similar has happened?

Michigan had an extended down period.  They made a good hire in Beilein and have recovered. 

Lessor program but UVa went a long time between being relevant.

[hogsanity]

Just a quick question.  From 1977 through 1997 Arkansas had quite a few top 25 teams and NCAA appearances.  From 1997 through now not so much.  In fact, it seems like a long and gradual descent.  Yes, I know the different possible reasons for that.  But.....does anyone know of another major college where something similar has happened?

NOt that they were that long of a period, but Louisville, UCLA, Indiana, all come to mid of teams that had long sustained periods of success followed by down times.

[EastexHawg]

This was ignorant "weight" added to the anchor a portion of the fan base created.  "I only want to win with Hawg Ball.  I have to have my Hawg Ball back.  UAB, Mizzou has our Hawg Ball." 

Yep.  And...the people who wanted their Hawg Ball back aren't about to admit that hiring Mike was a mistake no matter what, thus the excuses and lowered expectations.

It is hard for me to believe how little Razorback fans expect from their athletic programs these days.

[lynbug]

Yep.  And...the people who wanted their Hawg Ball back aren't about to admit that hiring Mike was a mistake no matter what, thus the excuses and lowered expectations.

It is hard for me to believe how little Razorback fans expect from their athletic programs these days.

We have been lulled into mediocrity.  And the good memories are fading.  But we continue to look forward with hope.  If we ever give up it will be very hard for some of us (ME)

[WBOBO]

Hawgball was destroyed the day the NCAA came out with the rule eliminating the hand check on the back.  Modifications need to be made to the old Hawball.  Zone traps still work great but not with 6'2 guards trying to implement it.  Last year when Qualls and Madden would immediately trap on smaller guards it was effective.  We simply don't have the athletic type guys this year to pull off this successfully.

[lynbug]

Hawgball was destroyed the day the NCAA came out with the rule eliminating the hand check on the back.  Modifications need to be made to the old Hawball.  Zone traps still work great but not with 6'2 guards trying to implement it.  Last year when Qualls and Madden would immediately trap on smaller guards it was effective.  We simply don't have the athletic type guys this year to pull off this successfully.

We need to come up with a new definition of Hawgball because the old one is outdated.  I understand that we are rebuilding, once again.  But when 7 of 10 losses are by 4 pts. or less and we actually were in control throughout several of those games, it creates some strong emotions when we lose and those emotions need an outlet (Jump Ball) so as not to elevate the blood pressure too much (lol).