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We need a true point guard.

Started by luke hawg, March 17, 2018, 12:54:58 pm

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luke hawg

Mike has not recruited one since coming to Arkansas. This system requires it for success.

rude1

That would have required balancing the roster and getting it done on the recruiting trail. Simply too much to ask of a HC. At least we have on campus for next year, another transfer who wasn't exactly lighting it up where he was at.

 

Pumbaa

Quote from: luke hawg on March 17, 2018, 12:54:58 pm
Mike has not recruited one since coming to Arkansas. This system requires it for success.

I've heard good things about Harris but have nothing but hearsay on him. Justice Hill is on his way. Till then a combo of Harris/Embry will have to hold us over. I'm not sure that's necessarily a bad thing.

hamARchy in the USA

Our true point guard would need a true coach.

Letsroll1200

Quote from: luke hawg on March 17, 2018, 12:54:58 pm
Mike has not recruited one since coming to Arkansas. This system requires it for success.

I thought Beard would develop into a point guard. Just didn't have the mentality to want to play the position.

arkfan81

You can live with a good point guard, we need a true big man in the post.
Have faith...

TNhawgfan

Quote from: Letsroll1200 on March 17, 2018, 01:04:27 pm
I thought Beard would develop into a point guard. Just didn't have the mentality to want to play the position.
It says something about development that beard looked best his freshman year
I'd rather be dead than be a Vol

arkfan81

Quote from: TNhawgfan on March 17, 2018, 01:09:37 pm
It says something about development that beard looked best his freshman year

What was his role, dribble up court, wait for Barford and Macon to get open? Then what? 
Have faith...

Letsroll1200

Quote from: TNhawgfan on March 17, 2018, 01:09:37 pm
It says something about development that beard looked best his freshman year

Beard came in surrounded around some veteran, strong guys like Madden, Harris, Qualls and Portis. Those guys didn't mind holding you accountable.
Beard played his role and he played hard. Beard wasn't the same after the money incident.
I always wonder if a Whitt, Macon and Barford backcourt would have worked.

fineswine

I am not an Anderson apologist by any means, but I thought Jabril Durham did a nice job as a senior. Kingsley really regressed without him.

rude1

Quote from: fineswine on March 17, 2018, 01:40:15 pm
I am not an Anderson apologist by any means, but I thought Jabril Durham did a nice job as a senior. Kingsley really regressed without him.
I think you unintentionally just point out the problem with MA I keep saying. Durham had one good season because he was ANOTHER JUCO. High school recruiting has been atrocious at best and instead of young guys being brought in to develop to build the program, we have been fed a steady diet of Jucos and low level transfers. This is why we always seeming are missing a piece or pieces to the puzzle.

fineswine

Quote from: rude1 on March 17, 2018, 02:06:39 pm
I think you unintentionally just point out the problem with MA I keep saying. Durham had one good season because he was ANOTHER JUCO. High school recruiting has been atrocious at best and instead of young guys being brought in to develop to build the program, we have been fed a steady diet of Jucos and low level transfers. This is why we always seeming are missing a piece or pieces to the puzzle.
I completely agree. Anderson has been what he has always been, a poor recruiter. It has been mentioned before (don't know if it is true), that he was the recruiting director for Coach Richardson during the lean years.  I just didn't think the initial poster gave Durham his proper due.

HOGINTENNESSEE

Quote from: Letsroll1200 on March 17, 2018, 01:04:27 pm
I thought Beard would develop into a point guard. Just didn't have the mentality to want to play the position.

Or the speed and quickness

 

WorfHog

I don't want to get dumped on, but Mike's got two coming in next year and one in 2019. Then we'll be full up on guards, but lack a big man.

Desi Seals, Keyshawn Embery and Justice Hill.

HOGINTENNESSEE

Quote from: WorfHog on March 17, 2018, 02:44:41 pm
I don't want to get dumped on, but Mike's got two coming in next year and one in 2019. Then we'll be full up on guards, but lack a big man.

Desi Seals, Keyshawn Embery and Justice Hill.

Well Stills and Embery are more combo. If there is a "true pg" it's Jalen Harris

BannerMountainMan

It's Jalen Harris, straight up PG, the players say he is going to be a great one.
"Michael Qualls with the dunk at the buzzer, it goes and Arkansas wins, it goes and Arkansas wins"

navyhog24

Quote from: BannerMountainMan on March 17, 2018, 08:18:17 pm
It's Jalen Harris, straight up PG, the players say he is going to be a great one.

Blah blah blah. Harris couldn't do squat at New Mexico. He'll be even worse against SEC level guards.

MA's history of bringing in transfers sucks as well. Not getting my hopes up.

rude1

Quote from: navyhog24 on March 17, 2018, 08:22:34 pm
Blah blah blah. Harris couldn't do squat at New Mexico. He'll be even worse against SEC level guards.

MA's history of bringing in transfers sucks as well. Not getting my hopes up.
4.5 pts., 2.3 assists, 1.3 to, 44% shooter, 24% three point shooter, 20 minutes played a game. Yeah just sounds like major point guard material to me. Oh wait, that year of red shirting has made him a great player..................

HawgHeadCheese

Quote from: HOGINTENNESSEE on March 17, 2018, 02:30:43 pm
Or the speed and quickness
I agree with this. As much as I like Beard he doesn't have any of the athletic tools or court vision that makes a good point guard.

RWQ

Quote from: rude1 on March 17, 2018, 08:34:46 pm
4.5 pts., 2.3 assists, 1.3 to, 44% shooter, 24% three point shooter, 20 minutes played a game. Yeah just sounds like major point guard material to me. Oh wait, that year of red shirting has made him a great player..................
Trashing a player before he ever steps on the court for the Hogs, another proud Jump Ball tradition.
U of A Grad December 1989

Pumbaa

Quote from: rude1 on March 17, 2018, 08:34:46 pm
4.5 pts., 2.3 assists, 1.3 to, 44% shooter, 24% three point shooter, 20 minutes played a game. Yeah just sounds like major point guard material to me. Oh wait, that year of red shirting has made him a great player..................

While taking a first glance at his stat line I thought the same too. I later looked at a highlight video of him from his time at New Mexico. I do understand that a highlight film only shows the good but he did seem very athletic. He was only a freshman with those numbers. I don't expect him to come in a be a world beater but I don't think he will be the scrub that some are making him out to be either.

//

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idJQptmryEg

ADavisTheGOAT

Quote from: Pumbaa on March 17, 2018, 08:59:57 pm
While taking a first glance at his stat line I thought the same too. I later looked at a highlight video of him from his time at New Mexico. I do understand that a highlight film only shows the good but he did seem very athletic. He was only a freshman with those numbers. I don't expect him to come in a be a world beater but I don't think he will be the scrub that some are making him out to be either.

//

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idJQptmryEg
If he can use his speed to penetrate the defense and kick to our shooters, it'll be fine
Razorbacks | Redskins | Pelicans | LA Tech

The Hogfather

Quote from: luke hawg on March 17, 2018, 12:54:58 pm
Mike has not recruited one since coming to Arkansas. This system requires it for success.

Harris will be that guy.

Cure

Even if they got one, they'd still have to teach how to make a proper post-entry.
Team Economics
From Keynes to Friedman, we know what's up.

 

rude1

Quote from: Pumbaa on March 17, 2018, 08:59:57 pm
While taking a first glance at his stat line I thought the same too. I later looked at a highlight video of him from his time at New Mexico. I do understand that a highlight film only shows the good but he did seem very athletic. He was only a freshman with those numbers. I don't expect him to come in a be a world beater but I don't think he will be the scrub that some are making him out to be either.

//

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idJQptmryEg
Ummm, most players look great on their "highlight" film.................

hogsanity

A true PG in Mike's motion offense will not help. Watch teams that have good+ or great pg's. They keep the ball in their hands, and they create off the dribble.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

HawgHeadCheese


Pumbaa

Quote from: rude1 on March 17, 2018, 09:14:08 pm
Ummm, most players look great on their "highlight" film.................

Way to say exactly what I said. Want a cookie? Actually reading the whole post before quoting might help in the future

rude1

Quote from: Pumbaa on March 17, 2018, 09:18:40 pm
Way to say exactly what I said. Want a cookie? Actually reading the whole post before quoting might help in the future

Then what was your point in showing that? You showed that to try and paint an image that he was some how better than his stats indicated.

Pumbaa

Quote from: rude1 on March 17, 2018, 09:52:13 pm
Then what was your point in showing that? You showed that to try and paint an image that he was some how better than his stats indicated.

The first quote says it all but it was to show his athleticism and that he was only a freshman at that point. Again, read the post. I clearly said I don't think he will be a world beater but he's not a scrub either...........

rolyat_2008

March 18, 2018, 03:23:50 am #30 Last Edit: March 18, 2018, 03:45:10 am by rolyat_2008
PG in this system is about not becoming stagnant (the motionless motion offense) and passing to get people involved.  Having guards that can defend the dribble, stay in front of average to above average guards by moving their feet instead of hands would be a start.  Stop the incessant disadvantage predetermined switching / trapping that results in leaving shooters that we are slow to rotate.

The bigger issue for Mike is PF.  It's the most vital position in Mike's system yet outside of Portis, Coty Clarke is the only athletic but skilled one that played of any quality and once again he was a JUCO.   We've had holes all throughout the roster not addressed and a bench full of mid level role players taking up scholarships.  He can play 9, 10 or 11 guys whatever but when the quality play drops off so far that's not the depth he loves to boast.  He loves talking up the depth and fast pace but doesn't trust it enough to really press defensively so we get this half hearted hope the shooters get tired and miss nonsense.

Sow Lancelot

Quote from: hogsanity on March 17, 2018, 09:15:29 pm
A true PG in Mike's motion offense will not help. Watch teams that have good+ or great pg's. They keep the ball in their hands, and they create off the dribble.
Meh. At least it'll be better than dribbling the perimeter for 23 seconds then heaving a brick.
"Nec vitia nostra nec remedium tolerare possumus." Livy
Nihil boni sine labore, sic vis pacem, para bellum.

Sow Lancelot

Quote from: rude1 on March 17, 2018, 09:52:13 pm
Then what was your point in showing that?
Maybe videos of him playing aren't too easy to find?
"Nec vitia nostra nec remedium tolerare possumus." Livy
Nihil boni sine labore, sic vis pacem, para bellum.

The_Iceman

Quote from: Pumbaa on March 17, 2018, 08:59:57 pm
While taking a first glance at his stat line I thought the same too. I later looked at a highlight video of him from his time at New Mexico. I do understand that a highlight film only shows the good but he did seem very athletic. He was only a freshman with those numbers. I don't expect him to come in a be a world beater but I don't think he will be the scrub that some are making him out to be either.



I've dug deeper into Harris's stats at New Mexico and liked what I saw. Averages as a freshman are deceiving, much like that are for Darious Hall. Freshmen are inconsistent and finding their footing. What you want to see from freshmen are flashes, and hope that can develop.

I saw something from that video of Harris that we haven't had in a guard in a long time, maybe since Courtney Fortson. Harris has speed and quickness that has been lacking. He will be able to break down a defense and open up other players.

sadhogfan

Quote from: hogsanity on March 17, 2018, 09:15:29 pm
A true PG in Mike's motion offense will not help. Watch teams that have good+ or great pg's. They keep the ball in their hands, and they create off the dribble.

Lee Mayberry, Corey Beck, and Kareem Reid say hello.

Do you even *think* before you post this stuff, or do you just have a Magic 8 Ball that randomly spews anti-MA cliches that you keep handy for such occasions?

Kevin

with the way the game is officiated got to have a creator at pg. just look what the kid from butler did to us. look what the kid from umbc did to Virginia.

it today's basketball, they are difficult to defend.
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.<br />James 4:7
Reject Every Kind Of Evil 1 Thessalonians 5:22

sadhogfan

Quote from: The_Iceman on March 18, 2018, 07:05:55 am
I've dug deeper into Harris's stats at New Mexico and liked what I saw. Averages as a freshman are deceiving, much like that are for Darious Hall. Freshmen are inconsistent and finding their footing. What you want to see from freshmen are flashes, and hope that can develop.

I saw something from that video of Harris that we haven't had in a guard in a long time, maybe since Courtney Fortson. Harris has speed and quickness that has been lacking. He will be able to break down a defense and open up other players.


There's a lot to like in that highlight video. It doesn't actually make him look like a true point guard though.

King Kong

Quote from: hogsanity on March 17, 2018, 09:15:29 pm
A true PG in Mike's motion offense will not help. Watch teams that have good+ or great pg's. They keep the ball in their hands, and they create off the dribble.

Even our motion offense we run Pick and Rolls at the top of the key. We just did it with Macon who wasn't quick enough to turn the corner unless other teams overplayed his 3pt shot

King Kong

Quote from: sadhogfan on March 18, 2018, 08:08:24 am
There's a lot to like in that highlight video. It doesn't actually make him look like a true point guard though.

There was another highlight video that when he first transferred that showed his passing skills better it has now been deleted. That video was all scoring.

If you watch his HS/AAU highlights on YouTube you will get a better understanding of his passing skills

BannerMountainMan

What a bunch of losers, why do jump ball posters trash every single hog recruit holy crap
"Michael Qualls with the dunk at the buzzer, it goes and Arkansas wins, it goes and Arkansas wins"

jm

We have not had a problem at the guard position. We don't have forwards that produce consistently. We have not had great forwards since Williamson. Guards are easy to find but there are not many skilled 6'7 plus guys available.

LRHawg

Quote from: BannerMountainMan on March 18, 2018, 08:31:42 am
What a bunch of losers, why do jump ball posters trash every single hog recruit holy crap

latrops

Quote from: BannerMountainMan on March 18, 2018, 08:31:42 am
What a bunch of losers, why do jump ball posters trash every single hog recruit holy crap

Trash him?  One post by Rude1 is the only one that could be construed as trashing...and even that is a stretch.  Based on freshman numbers at a mid-major, he is far from a sure thing.

rude1

Quote from: sadhogfan on March 18, 2018, 08:08:24 am
There's a lot to like in that highlight video. It doesn't actually make him look like a true point guard though.
You mean averaging 2.3 assists and 1.3 turnovers a game while playing 21 minutes a game doesn't spell "true point guard"?

TheOtherColombia

Quote from: sadhogfan on March 18, 2018, 08:02:07 am
Lee Mayberry, Corey Beck, and Kareem Reid say hello.

Do you even *think* before you post this stuff, or do you just have a Magic 8 Ball that randomly spews anti-MA cliches that you keep handy for such occasions?

Anderson recruited and coached those guys?  I must have missed that.

The_Iceman

Quote from: rude1 on March 18, 2018, 09:52:28 am
You mean averaging 2.3 assists and 1.3 turnovers a game while playing 21 minutes a game doesn't spell "true point guard"?

He is not a grad transfer. He was a TRUE FRESHMAN at New Mexico. Ever seen a player not have great stats his freshman year, but improves as he gets older? Hey, I have, like a million times!

steveaustin69

Quote from: sadhogfan on March 18, 2018, 08:02:07 am
Lee Mayberry, Corey Beck, and Kareem Reid say hello.

Do you even *think* before you post this stuff, or do you just have a Magic 8 Ball that randomly spews anti-MA cliches that you keep handy for such occasions?

Do you even think before you post this stuff?

Those are Nolan players.

rude1

Quote from: The_Iceman on March 18, 2018, 10:53:36 am
He is not a grad transfer. He was a TRUE FRESHMAN at New Mexico. Ever seen a player not have great stats his freshman year, but improves as he gets older? Hey, I have, like a million times!
Of course he will improve, but is he a pass first PG, 2.3 assists in 21 minutes of action, doesn't appear so. Maybe his mindset changes?

The_Iceman

Quote from: rude1 on March 18, 2018, 10:56:35 am
Of course he will improve, but is he a pass first PG, 2.3 assists in 21 minutes of action, doesn't appear so. Maybe his mindset changes?

I'd expect with the guards he will have around him, and after practicing last year with Barford and Macon, he has gotten used to the idea of bring a facilitator. At New Mexico, he had an 8 assist game and multiple games of 4 of more.

Letsroll1200

Jabril Durham averaged 6 points and 6 assists per game his senior year. If Jalen Harris can give the Hogs that, and stay in front of his man the majority of the time, the Hogs will be alright. Beard wouldn't or couldn't stay in front of nobody.