The SEC Lucky and Unlucky and THE BRET BIELEMA FACTOR

[Cinco de Hogo]

BOOM!!!

So what part of my post that he quoted wasn't true?  You want to hear lies, fine read other people's post and ignore mine.

[thirrdegreetusker]

I recall us getting destroyed by teams with good defenses that shut down our "potent" Petrino offense.

Agree. Some people seem to forget that, in the last two losses by the "offensive genius"  in the magical "21-5" stretch, our offense rolled up a whopping 24 points COMBINED, in those two games.

[thirrdegreetusker]

Petrino's problem at Arkansas was that he couldn't keep a back healthy to save his life.

There was another contributing factor, related to the running game. Somehow, it took the Petrino staff one-third of the 2010 season to figure out that KD was a real good running back, and to begin utilizing him accordingly.

[Cinco de Hogo]

There was another contributing factor, related to the running game. Somehow, it took the Petrino staff one-third of the 2010 season to figure out that KD was a real good running back, and to begin utilizing him accordingly.

Maybe if you don't want to give him any credit for knowing if or when Davis was healthy enough to produce.  I would think Petrino knew what Davis was capable of when he recruited him.

Petrino stuck with KD through an amazing injury filled career and sent him into the pros were he is still earning a living.

Would CBB do that?  Probably, but I guess it surprises some that Petrino would.

[Dwight_K_Shrute]

Maybe if you don't want to give him any credit for knowing if or when Davis was healthy enough to produce.  I would think Petrino knew what Davis was capable of when he recruited him.

Had nothing to do with health.  Go back and look at the YPC's of Davis vs Green before Davis got the bulk of the carries.  Coaches do make mistakes. 

[thirrdegreetusker]

Bottom line. For most of the past 50 years, a run-first coach looks like a fricking offensive genius if he has just one WR who can get open and/or out-fight the DBs for the ball.

The mere threat of that one WR breaking the game open frees up the run-first OC to grind away better.

Keith Jackson at OU comes to mind, and he wasn't even a WR. OU was 42-5-1 record in his four seasons and a national championship in 1985.

[thirrdegreetusker]

Maybe if you don't want to give him any credit for knowing if or when Davis was healthy enough to produce.  I would think Petrino knew what Davis was capable of when he recruited him.

True. I was assuming that, after limiting him to 33 attempts as a true freshman, they simply did not realize what they had. If he was injured as a frosh, why give him a meaningless 33 attempts, and waste a year of eligibility?

But you are correct. If he was dinged up a lot, and did not get to 100% until one-third through his sophomore year, I did not consider that, and that would certainly explain the situation. 

[Jek Tono Porkins]

That sounds good and by all rights, should be the right answer, but what happens when your offense wastes possessions? Look above at what I discussed about the Missouri game. I love our defense and I think Robb Smith has done a great job and will continue to do so, but we need Enos to step up and call better games than Chaney did so we can extend our offensive drives to achieve that which you suggest. Just look back at the second half of that Missouri game above. We had our chances and blew it, along with an 8 point lead at the half. We allowed them to score 15 points in the second half while we scored 0. That isn't helping your defense.

Yep, I think that's why Chaney is gone. The same thing happened at the A&M game. I was at that game. We didn't score at all in the last half of the third quarter or the fourth quarter. Chaney made some really boneheaded decisions in that second half and the second half of the Mizzou game.

Enos comes from the pro-style background that CBB wants and I think our offense will be improved.

[Cinco de Hogo]

Had nothing to do with health.  Go back and look at the YPC's of Davis vs Green before Davis got the bulk of the carries.  Coaches do make mistakes.

Again you are second guessing a coach and you may be right or wrong but the point I was originally making was that people are wrong about Petrino's desire to have a strong run game and he has proven that when he had s healthy RB at Arkansas and at WKU and Louisville.  Even back in his Auburn days he was bringing up two grea backs that had long NFL careers.

The only reason I even rehash these things that don't matter anymore is because someone invariably come on here and post things that aren't true.  See I can admit the Petrino want a strong run game to compliment his passing offense but he had trouble implementing it.  Well...CBB wants a strong passing game to compliment his rushing attack but hasn't been able to implement it yet.

That is the situation.

[BearsBisonsBoars]

I just don't get why people have to put Petrino down as a way of proving CBB can do something he hasn't done yet.

What I see I call ignorance.

It's because some people romanticize the Petrino "era".

A subset of those fans dislike CBB and then cherry pick from Petrino's success to "prove" that Bielema isn't a good coach. I'm not sure what they're hoping to accomplish, but the internet is a ripe haven for fools with soapboxes.

Since they're unable or unwilling to recognize the difference in circumstance between the two regimes, those of us who like CBB and/or those who are honest enough to be unbiased are forced to remind everyone of Petrino's faults on the field as well, so we can bring some semblance of balance and sanity to the discussion.

But that's my 2 cents.

As an aside, in my opinion, "The proof is in the pudding" is a dumb saying, and being strictly results-oriented in the middle of a process is a hallmark of an unnuanced mind.

[DLUXHOG]

I just don't get why people slobber over Petrino's nuts, even to this day, knowing how much harm and destruction that man did to our beloved football program.

In reality, Petrino was/is a great coach however he didn't give two hoots about the state of Arkansas... and... obviously he has low morals..

Beliema is also a great coach and I truly think he does hold the great state of Arkansas in high regard..... and it would appear he has acceptable morals (we hope....)

two different, but great coaches...........

[SooiecidetillNuttgone]

In reality, Petrino was/is a great coach however he didn't give two hoots about the state of Arkansas... and... obviously he has low morals..

Beliema is also a great coach and I truly think he does hold the great state of Arkansas in high regard..... and it would appear he has acceptable morals (we hope....)

two different, but great coaches...........

+1.

[Cinco de Hogo]

It's because some people romanticize the Petrino "era".

A subset of those fans dislike CBB and then cherry pick from Petrino's success to "prove" that Bielema isn't a good coach. I'm not sure what they're hoping to accomplish, but the internet is a ripe haven for fools with soapboxes.

Since they're unable or unwilling to recognize the difference in circumstance between the two regimes, those of us who like CBB and/or those who are honest enough to be unbiased are forced to remind everyone of Petrino's faults on the field as well, so we can bring some semblance of balance and sanity to the discussion.

But that's my 2 cents.

As an aside, in my opinion, "The proof is in the pudding" is a dumb saying, and being strictly results-oriented in the middle of a process is a hallmark of an unnuanced mind.

You need to educate yourself on who brings Petrino into the conversation first every time, and is true of this thread.

It's a results-oriented world we live in and CBBis not immune to that and you well know that.  You want to bash Petrino's coaching for going 21-5 and praise CBB for going 10-15 that's fine because like you I know CBB will also improve on his record just like CBP did. 

But it's not about CBP vs CCB it's about falsehoods.  It doesn't help CBB in the least to say things that aren't true about CBP.  Then when someone argues with those falsehoods you bring out the CBB hate card.  Or you say someone licks Petrino's nuts. 

That is what you people do and you think you are the good people.  Yea, I don't get it.

[SooiecidetillNuttgone]

You need to educate yourself on who brings Petrino into the conversation first every time, and is true of this thread.

It's a results-oriented world we live in and CBBis not immune to that and you well know that.  You want to bash Petrino's coaching for going 21-5 and praise CBB for going 10-15 that's fine because like you I know CBB will also improve on his record just like CBP did. 

But it's not about CBP vs CCB it's about falsehoods.  It doesn't help CBB in the least to say things that aren't true about CBP.  Then when someone argues with those falsehoods you bring out the CBB hate card.  Or you say someone licks Petrino's nuts. 

That is what you people do and you think you are the good people.  Yea, I don't get it.

+ A Gazillion.

[Deep Shoat]

You need to educate yourself on who brings Petrino into the conversation first every time, and is true of this thread.

It's a results-oriented world we live in and CBBis not immune to that and you well know that.  You want to bash Petrino's coaching for going 21-5 and praise CBB for going 10-15 that's fine because like you I know CBB will also improve on his record just like CBP did. 

But it's not about CBP vs CCB it's about falsehoods.  It doesn't help CBB in the least to say things that aren't true about CBP.  Then when someone argues with those falsehoods you bring out the CBB hate card.  Or you say someone licks Petrino's nuts. 

That is what you people do and you think you are the good people.  Yea, I don't get it.

See, its this darn that causes people to still "bash" Bobby.  We aren't comparing 21-5 to 10-15.  We are comparing 13-12 in a weaker West to 10-15.

You do know Bobby coached a couple of seasons here BEFORE he won 21 in his last two, don't you?

[Cinco de Hogo]

See, its this darn that causes people to still "bash" Bobby.  We aren't comparing 21-5 to 10-15.  We are comparing 13-12 in a weaker West to 10-15.

You do know Bobby coached a couple of seasons here BEFORE he won 21 in his last two, don't you?

But you do that in reverse which doesn't work either unless you say thing that aren't true yet.  So wait two years before comparing the two, which you really can't compare anyway since they are so opposite. 

What I said is the original post that started this is still true dispite whatever else you want to make it about.

There has never been a coach go 0-16 that had my support like CBB has so whatever you have to say about my opinion of schemes and things are totally out of bounds. 

[Deep Shoat]

But you do that in reverse which doesn't work either unless you say thing that aren't true yet.  So wait two years before comparing the two, which you really can't compare anyway since they are so opposite. 

What I said is the original post that started this is still true dispite whatever else you want to make it about.

There has never been a coach go 0-16 that had my support like CBB has so whatever you have to say about my opinion of schemes and things are totally out of bounds.

Is this English?  I have no fricking idea what you are posting here.

The fact is, you and other Bobby buddies always try to compare 21-5 of CBB's first two seasons.  That is BS and everyone knows it.

[GuvHog]

Had nothing to do with health.  Go back and look at the YPC's of Davis vs Green before Davis got the bulk of the carries.  Coaches do make mistakes. 

The only reason Knile Davis got to accomplish what he did is because Dennis Johnson went down early in the season with a season ending injury. Dennis was set to be the #1 RB and put up big numbers.

[GuvHog]

Is this English?  I have no fricking idea what you are posting here.

The fact is, you and other Bobby buddies always try to compare 21-5 of CBB's first two seasons.  That is BS and everyone knows it.

Pure silliness. BP took a near bottom feeder program and in 4 years time had them finishing #5 in the nation. There is no need to compare he and Bielema because Bielema appears to be on his way to exceeding BP's record here at Arkansas and that's a great thing. It isn't necessary to degrade what Bobby accomplished to make CBB look better, that smacks of jealousy toward Bielema. He doesn't need that, he's doing great as it is.

[Deep Shoat]

Pure silliness. BP took a near bottom feeder program and in 4 years time had them finishing #5 in the nation. There is no need to compare he and Bielema because Bielema appears to be on his way to exceeding BP's record here at Arkansas and that's a great thing. It isn't necessary to degrade what Bobby accomplished to make CBB look better, that smacks of jealousy toward Bielema. He doesn't need that, he's doing great as it is.

Guv, you do realize you are wrong on pretty much every issue you post on, right?  You are the comic relief of Hogville.

[LRRandy]

Pure silliness. BP took a near bottom feeder program and in 4 years time had them finishing #5 in the nation. There is no need to compare he and Bielema because Bielema appears to be on his way to exceeding BP's record here at Arkansas and that's a great thing. It isn't necessary to degrade what Bobby accomplished to make CBB look better, that smacks of jealousy toward Bielema. He doesn't need that, he's doing great as it is.

that's quite a leap of a statement to say it apears CBB is on his way to exceeding Petrinos record. Yes, there has been measurable improvement. Until close losses turn to wins and losses to the perennial division winners ( LSU, Alabama,Auburn) turn to wins that statement isn't accurate. This year will indeed be a measuring stick.

[BearsBisonsBoars]

You need to educate yourself on who brings Petrino into the conversation first every time, and is true of this thread.

It's a results-oriented world we live in and CBBis not immune to that and you well know that.  You want to bash Petrino's coaching for going 21-5 and praise CBB for going 10-15 that's fine because like you I know CBB will also improve on his record just like CBP did. 

But it's not about CBP vs CCB it's about falsehoods.  It doesn't help CBB in the least to say things that aren't true about CBP.  Then when someone argues with those falsehoods you bring out the CBB hate card.  Or you say someone licks Petrino's nuts. 

That is what you people do and you think you are the good people.  Yea, I don't get it.

That's such a bald-faced lie that I'm almost at a loss.

It's the Bielema haters that bring Petrino up. Nobody else cares. It's the past. We're just not going to let you get away with revising history or cherry picking facts.

People who hide behind being "results oriented" are the same people who insist that they're "realists". It all boils down to people too unintelligent or too lazy to do real analysis. You guys just want to swim around on the surface so you can make yourselves feel better by tearing down our team and coach. It's kind of sad. Lots of armchair ADs here.

[GuvHog]

Guv, you do realize you are wrong on pretty much every issue you post on, right?  You are the comic relief of Hogville.

You can't prove my post is wrong so you attack me. Typical.

[GuvHog]

that's quite a leap of a statement to say it apears CBB is on his way to exceeding Petrinos record. Yes, there has been measurable improvement. Until close losses turn to wins and losses to the perennial division winners ( LSU, Alabama,Auburn) turn to wins that statement isn't accurate. This year will indeed be a measuring stick.

It is strictly my opinion and I do believe CBB is on his way to exceeding BP's record. I didn't say whether he actually would exceed BP's record or not but he is headed in the right direction.

[GuvHog]

That's such a bald-faced lie that I'm almost at a loss.

It's the Bielema haters that bring Petrino up. Nobody else cares. It's the past. We're just not going to let you get away with revising history or cherry picking facts.

People who hide behind being "results oriented" are the same people who insist that they're "realists". It all boils down to people too unintelligent or too lazy to do real analysis. You guys just want to swim around on the surface so you can make yourselves feel better by tearing down our team and coach. It's kind of sad. Lots of armchair ADs here.

No, he's quite correct. It's you that is wrong. Go back and see who brought up BP in this thread. The proof is in the pudding.

[Jek Tono Porkins]

See, its this darn that causes people to still "bash" Bobby.  We aren't comparing 21-5 to 10-15.  We are comparing 13-12 in a weaker West to 10-15.

You do know Bobby coached a couple of seasons here BEFORE he won 21 in his last two, don't you?

Bingo. I don't know why people can't see this.

In Bobby's era, the Mississippi schools sucked, A&M (wasn't in our conference but we still played 'em three times) sucked, our permanent opponent was South Carolina and they sucked, and we got lucky with our draw of teams from the East like Vandy and Derek Dooley's Tennessee.

The 2014 Hogs had to beat a #17 ranked (at the time) LSU and a #8 ranked (at the time) Ole Miss just to get to 7-5.

Even if it turns out that Bielema doesn't go 21-5 over the next two years, you can't compare the two. Every team in the West is good now. Our new permanent opponent has been the East's champion the last two years.

Bobby was a great coach for us, no doubt about it. He just let his pecker get in the way.
Bret is going to be a great coach for us as well.

Not only can you not compare the two because of different circumstances of their tenures, there's no reason to even try. They're both good coaches and we should leave it at that.

[SooiecidetillNuttgone]

Bingo. I don't know why people can't see this.

In Bobby's era, the Mississippi schools sucked, A&M (wasn't in our conference but we still played 'em three times) sucked, our permanent opponent was South Carolina and they sucked, and we got lucky with our draw of teams from the East like Vandy and Derek Dooley's Tennessee.

The 2014 Hogs had to beat a #17 ranked (at the time) LSU and a #8 ranked (at the time) Ole Miss just to get to 7-5.

Even if it turns out that Bielema doesn't go 21-5 over the next two years, you can't compare the two. Every team in the West is good now. Our new permanent opponent has been the East's champion the last two years.

Bobby was a great coach for us, no doubt about it. He just let his pecker get in the way.
Bret is going to be a great coach for us as well.

Not only can you not compare the two because of different circumstances of their tenures, there's no reason to even try. They're both good coaches and we should leave it at that.

Absolutely.

And if this were the prevalent, and realistic, opinion then there wouldn't be so many whizzing contests.

Unfortunately, there are many that try to tear down the accomplishments of those from the past to make themselves feel better about the present and future.

There's been a lot of history rewritten on here about Eddie, Gus, and Nolan also, well as many others.   I guess, it's too much to ask that people try to separate their feelings from the facts......Especially when numerous things are being guessed at in order to try to fill in gaps of actual knowledge.

[JaketheSnake]

Absolutely.

And if this were the prevalent, and realistic, opinion then there wouldn't be so many whizzing contests.

Unfortunately, there are many that try to tear down the accomplishments of those from the past to make themselves feel better about the present and future.

Or too many that want to complain about the present bc they are stuck in the past.  We got exactly what we wanted out of CBP and then he made our worst fears about what he could do to our program come true.  Time to move on!

[LRRandy]

It is strictly my opinion and I do believe CBB is on his way to exceeding BP's record. I didn't say whether he actually would exceed BP's record or not but he is headed in the right direction.

and I'm not saying he won't. It will be fun around here when he does. My point was its a little early to say he is on his way to exceeding those records. You want to think he is but there aren't a lot of wins to point to it.....yet

[bigbadhog]

and I'm not saying he won't. It will be fun around here when he does. My point was its a little early to say he is on his way to exceeding those records. You want to think he is but there aren't a lot of wins to point to it.....yet

2 sec wins in two years and some are declaring BB an elite coach - use some
Common sense people...

[JaketheSnake]

2 sec wins in two years and some are declaring BB an elite coach - use some
Common sense people...

He has proven elsewhere that he is an elite coach.  Use some common sense.

[jkstock04]

Hogville revisionalist history is always fun. The spin on here is mind blowing at times.

[hawgbawb]

Football isn't an even statistical field through the whole game.  That's why straight statistics don't help so much in predicting success/failure.  Arkansas simply wasn't as deep as our competition for front line talent.  In the 4th quarter, we were running out of gas and couldn't finish the job.

That's why BB was "lucky" at Wisconsin with the same style.  He had a more even talent pool to deal with.  If the scheme itself was the problem, you wouldn't seen Wiscy do well in close games as the article pointed out actually happened.

agree

[bigbadhog]

He has proven elsewhere that he is an elite coach.  Use some common sense.

In your not so humble opinion.  Others disagree...

[JaketheSnake]

In your not so humble opinion.  Others disagree...

Who doesn't think a coach that has been to multiple BCS games isn't elite?

[bigbadhog]

Who doesn't think a coach that has been to multiple BCS games isn't elite?

Weak conference with best teams down and on probation.  Beliema's best Wisconsin teams would have been very average in the SEC - in my opinion of course...

[JaketheSnake]

Weak conference with best teams down and on probation.  Beliema's best Wisconsin teams would have been very average in the SEC - in my opinion of course...

One of his Average team's beat the SEC West champ in the 07 Capitsl One bowl... But continue your agenda

[bigbadhog]

One of his Average team's beat the SEC West champ in the 07 Capitsl One bowl... But continue your agenda

Yes, beating Nutt in a bowl game was quite an accomplishment.  A lot of things came to mind when the BB hiring was announced 12/12 but elite coach was not one of them...

[JaketheSnake]

Yes, beating Nutt in a bowl game was quite an accomplishment.  A lot of things came to mind when the BB hiring was announced 12/12 but elite coach was not one of them...

okay... Top 12 in college football coaching in salary.  Sounds pretty elite at $4mil per year.

[bigbadhog]

okay... Top 12 in college football coaching in salary.  Sounds pretty elite at $4mil per year.

That's your criteria?  Long could have paid him 10 mil per year - then he would be the best coach in college football except for saban of course due to his "highest paid coach" contract...

[JaketheSnake]

That's your criteria?  Long could have paid him 10 mil per year - then he would be the best coach in college football except for saban of course due to his "highest paid coach" contract...

Theres been plenty of other criteria, but you continue to downplay those facts to suit your agenda.

[Cinco de Hogo]

I thing he is a good coach, elite is still something for him to prove.  My list of elite coaches is very short.  Just being a coach at an elite school doesn't make you an elite coach.  You can be a elite coach without winning a championship(NC). 

So Bielema could be an elite coach and he could prove it at Arkansas but not for a few years.

[bigbadhog]

Theres been plenty of other criteria, but you continue to downplay those facts to suit your agenda.

My agenda is wanting a good football coach to lead my Razorbacks in the modern era of football - not a dinosaur with an antiquated philosophy.  After BP showed us the roadmap to winning at Arkansas, Long finds the closest thing to Houston Nutt in college football.  My agenda is wanting the best for my program and 1984-2007 proved that this is not it.  What is your agenda???

[Jek Tono Porkins]

Bielema =/= Houston nutt in any way, shape, or form. To even suggest that displays just how ignorant you are.

[bigbadhog]

Name a college football coach that is closer in philosophy to Nutt.  The markuson hire was very telling...

[JaketheSnake]

My agenda is wanting a good football coach to lead my Razorbacks in the modern era of football - not a dinosaur with an antiquated philosophy.  After BP showed us the roadmap to winning at Arkansas, Long finds the closest thing to Houston Nutt in college football.  My agenda is wanting the best for my program and 1984-2007 proved that this is not it.  What is your agenda???

My agenda is to call a duck a duck.  MOTHO was not a good coach, but did bring some positives to the program.  CBP was on the verge of being an elite coach but extremely shady person.  CBB has won big in a P5 conference, sustained that success over several years, and now has the UA on the cusp of another breakthrough season. He hasnt won big here yet, but most think he will.  Comparing CBB to MOTHO is is plain ignorant.   What, besides that they both likes to run the football, do they have in common?

[preachr]

Name a college football coach that is closer in philosophy to Nutt.  The markuson hire was very telling...

As was the fact that he got rid of Markuson very quickly.

[JaketheSnake]

Name a college football coach that is closer in philosophy to Nutt.  The markuson hire was very telling...

Philosophy doesn't = wins or coaching. How many high school teams run the Spread and DONT win a state or conference championship every year?

[bigbadhog]

My agenda is to call a duck a duck.  MOTHO was not a good coach, but did bring some positives to the program.  CBP was on the verge of being an elite coach but extremely shady person.  CBB has won big in a P5 conference, sustained that success over several years, and now has the UA on the cusp of another breakthrough season. He hasnt won big here yet, but most think he will.  Comparing CBB to MOTHO is is plain ignorant.   What, besides that they both likes to run the football, do they have in common?

You didn't answer he question.  Watching their teams play looked very close.  Who is/was the closet to Nutt by watching the teams play???

[LRRandy]

Who doesn't think a coach that has been to multiple BCS games isn't elite?

he couldn't win one though