OU to SEC Realignment Thread-Updated 7-26-15

[Inhogswetrust]

Boren was a "yellow dog" democrat, one of those that was enrolled as a democrat but was highly conservative - democrat to get elected when that was the thing to do in SE OK. Burns Hargis, president of OSU, is a similarly conservative democrat who was once in OK politics. I suspect they are well-connected on this issue and will proceed in tandem...of some variety.

Said differently, unlike Texas where the population base is large enough to have warring factions, I think OK politicians would rally together and make sure that both OU and OSU are headed somewhere desirable vs letting one of them leave the other behind.

I suspect KU and KState are the same way, complicating things there (KU has the academics to go to the Pac12 or B1G but KState does not). OU would be borderline for either but politically might get in...OSU would not. It is the weakest academic institution in the Big 12 (and likely any of the power 5 conferences, including West Virginia and right there with the two MS schools from the SEC).

I worked in Oklahoma when Boren was a Senator. I did not know that the OSU President was a former politician as well so thanks for that information. THAT is something to think about with BOTH being politically connected.............In other words they will do whatever it takes for both to be happy or at least compromise somehow.

[Dominicanhog]

That's not going to happen. The ACC could have chosen WVU last go around but didn't due to West Virginias poor academics.

If they lost a couple teams to the SEC, WVU would look a lot different, especially if the B12 was breaking up...

[Dominicanhog]

I still believe Texas will eventually jump to the PAC 12. They would have to give up the Longhorn Network to become a part of the SEC and I don't see them agreeing to do that.

I agree... OU to SEC along with NCst... Pac12 and B1G take what they want and the M. West cleans up the scraps.

[Oklahawg]

I worked in Oklahoma when Boren was a Senator. I did not know that the OSU President was a former politician as well so thanks for that information. THAT is something to think about with BOTH being politically connected.............In other words they will do whatever it takes for both to be happy or at least compromise somehow.

The other part of that political "connectedness" - I think Boren plays his chips before he is at a disadvantage.

Something along the lines of four 16-team conferences, then a couple of Mountain West types to clean up the rest who want to keep trying. Or, a super class of the top 64.

Academics may seem inconsequential to some on here but it is a very big deal to many important schools in the power conferences. West Va has to feel fortunate to have landed in the Big 12 as they could never get a seat at the table in the ACC or B1G. Why? Academics. MState and OM would struggle to leave the SEC unless they headed to the Big 12. They aren't going anywhere, of course, but the point is - academics matter just enough to require fans consider them.

Given the $$ being tossed about, academics will be more important than location. Maryland vs Nebraska is no more intelligent than West Virginia vs Texas Tech.  Or, Missouri vs Florida.

LSU's budget problems will hurt their academic standing/reputation. It won't hurt them sticking in the SEC, obviously, but it could factor into the recruitment of, say, Texas.

[EastexHawg]

I still believe Texas will eventually jump to the PAC 12. They would have to give up the Longhorn Network to become a part of the SEC and I don't see them agreeing to do that.

Tens of people watch the Longhorn Network.  It won't command much next time its contract is negotiated.  Texas is the truly big fish in the Big 12 with OU clearly second.  If the SEC wants to ensure that it cannot be rivaled, much less toppled, as the premier conference for the imaginable future it can't possibly make a stronger move than bringing in Texas and the Sooners.  They are both programs with great tradition and following that command national interest in the only sport that matters...football.

I can't believe we are talking about trying to find a true rival in West Virginia.  We already have a mortal enemy rivalry with Texas. 

Kansas?  They are a joke in football, and again that is the only sport that truly matters from a revenue and conference prestige standpoint.  I don't want the SEC to bring in a patsy just so we think we'll have someone we can beat.

[reddogjcss]

Texas has crashed every conference they ever been in. The we are the biggest and demand the Lion share attitude and getting by with it has and will crash any conference they are a part of.
Tuck Fexas they are parasites that don't need to be in the SEC.
Oklahoma will be fine even TCU and Baylor or combination of them but Texas is a disaster and NOTHING BUT TROUBLE FOR ANYONE IN A CONFERENCE WITH THEM.

[reddogjcss]

The best picks would be Oklahoma and West Virgina

[Hawghiggs]

The best picks would be Oklahoma and West Virgina

I would rather have TCU or Kansas. If we add to the west. Then Alabama and Auburn have to move east.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

This will be a perennial off-season topic until we hit 4 super conferences. It is fascinating to read Boren's words - ever the politician, he is ango big for something here.

In a world filled with 80K+ stadiums in the ACC, B1G and SEC I would not think that the Big 12 can do much to retain OU and UT short of adding a school that sells out one of those mega stadiums.

Thus, I think that OU is as likely to try to land OSU in the PAC 12 and go to the SEC as they are to try and recruit Cincy and Memphis. OU and UT to the SEC and they will let others fend for themselves. OU and OSU have to land on their feet or they will sTay tethered politically.

Conversely, I have to ask why OU and Texas would want to leave a conference which they essentially, control? Sure, there is something to be said for the difference in revenue shares per team from conference to conference, but doesn't OU and Texas already get a bigger percentage cut of the collective Big 12 pie than their fellow members? And, isn't there something to be said for being the one of the controlling entities as opposed to being "just another member of the conference"? What is it really worth to be the school(s) with their hand on the rudder?

Keeping the conference together might seem to make more sense to them than bolting for another conference, at least at this time.

That said, I've already discussed the fact that the Big 12 is going to have a hard time raiding another P-5 conference for a new member and that road would require a lot more time and difficulty. So if they choose to stay together they not only have to find the best possible invitees from current non P-5 conferences, but I would think that they would also want to find a way to somehow regain a greater sense of regional relevance. But again, that's part of the problem.

Colorado State seems like a program on the rise and they are investing in their program and that restores one of the old Big 8/Big 12 member states that they had prior to losing Colorado to the Pac 12. BYU and Boise State are too far west and adding them (while perhaps being easy add-ons) does nothing to help solve the problem that they have with the distance between the majority of the conference and W. Virginia.

IF, they want to keep the Big 12 together at this time, I think their only choice is to look easterly for new members to help W. Virginia. Otherwise at some point, they may lose W. Virginia.

Now, if as you suggest that they may not have a desire to keep the conference together and OU and Texas are looking for the exit signs, for the reasons of politics as you have already mentioned, I cannot see any scenario where OU and Okla State go their own separate ways. If OU winds up being a member of the SEC, I think it will be with Okla State in tow. The likely result of which would be the realignment of divisions with OU and Okla State to the West and Alabama/Auburn moving to the East.

JMO

[online-with-swine]

If we add teams I would prefer they be from the east.  My problem with OU and OSU together is that they would likely end up in a pod with both AM and LSU, leaving us with some sort of odd pod of Mizzou and the Mississippi schools or Kentucky and Tennessee.  If OU alone and a team from the east then there is a good chance of us, AM, LSU and OU all being together.  Killer but fun.  If both teams are from the east then it would likely be us, LSU, Mizzou and am in a pod.  I like that the best.

My point is I want what is best for Arkansas, not the other sec schools or whoever the new member is.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

If we add teams I would prefer they be from the east.  My problem with OU and OSU together is that they would likely end up in a pod with both AM and LSU, leaving us with some sort of odd pod of Mizzou and the Mississippi schools or Kentucky and Tennessee.  If OU alone and a team from the east then there is a good chance of us, AM, LSU and OU all being together.  Killer but fun.  If both teams are from the east then it would likely be us, LSU, Mizzou and am in a pod.  I like that the best.

My point is I want what is best for Arkansas, not the other sec schools or whoever the new member is.

You wouldn't have to have "pods", just two divisions of 8 each. And finally, the East and the West are actually split from a true east to west.

West                          East
Ark                             Ala
LSU                            Aub
Miss                            Fla
Miss St                        Geo
Miz                              Ken
OU                              S. Car
OSU                            Tenn
A&M                            Vandy

[online-with-swine]

I just assumed that pods would be the most logical step after jumping to 16.  Otherwise, how long would it take to play the east schools?  I already don't like the way it is in that regard.

Another thought, the longer Texas and OU stay in a dying the more attractive we look to other recruits.  Sure, they are going to get their share of Texas kids but maybe we look a little better in the sec when compared to them.

[online-with-swine]

Admittedly, the east west split would preserve a lot of the traditional rivalries for the whole of the sec and make some nice potential ones for us......Mizzou, LSU, am, OU, OSU and LSU would be fun.  And then us being right in the middle of it all.  Of course, that would be a heck of a new age Big 8 conference if BAMA turns into a Texas like member.

[Dominicanhog]

You wouldn't have to have "pods", just two divisions of 8 each. And finally, the East and the West are actually split from a true east to west.

West                          East
Ark                             Ala
LSU                            Aub
Miss                            Fla
Miss St                        Geo
Miz                              Ken
OU                              S. Car
OSU                            Tenn
A&M                            Vandy

I think that would be 2 great divisions, but just don't see SEC taking 2 from Oklahoma... if we took one of of the 2 and added an eastern team such as NCst... would we split AU/bama? or Vany/Tenn....

to me, this is our biggest dilemma, if one team comes from the east and one from the west.. we have a problem with our division splits due to demands by Bama.

Another round of realignments is going to happen, just a matter of which team gets invited to a P5 and starts the  merry go round.  I keep expecting to hear about VT or NCst moving to SEC.... though, not sure any P5 wants to take a B12 team, knowing it will send college football into a whirlwind and be the demise of the B12, leaving a lot of teams with no where to go.

[Dr. Starcs]

If we are in a pod with Mizzou, Ole Miss and Miss St, sign me up!

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I just assumed that pods would be the most logical step after jumping to 16.  Otherwise, how long would it take to play the east schools?  I already don't like the way it is in that regard.

Another thought, the longer Texas and OU stay in a dying the more attractive we look to other recruits.  Sure, they are going to get their share of Texas kids but maybe we look a little better in the sec when compared to them.

Oklahoma and Texas are always going to get talent to campus regardless of the conference in which they are located.

Here's the list of the top 30 schools with the most NFL Draft Picks.

1.   USC                         493
2.   Notre Dame              486
3.   Ohio State                418
4.   Oklahoma                 373
5.   Nebraska                  353
6.   Michigan                   348
7.   Penn State                338
8.   Tennessee                 337
8.   Texas                        337
9.   Alabama                    326
10. Miami (FL)                 325
11. Florida                       324
12. Louisiana State           315
13. Georgia                      311
14. Michigan State            303
14. UCLA                          303
16. Washington                 285
17. Purdue                        277
18. Pittsburgh                   272
19. Texas A&M                  271
20. Wisconsin                    268
21. Colorado                      266
22. Auburn                        262
22. Minnesota                    262
23. Arkansas                     258
24. Florida State                256
25. Stanford                      249
26. Iowa                           245
27. Illinois                         241
28. Arizona State               239

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I think that would be 2 great divisions, but just don't see SEC taking 2 from Oklahoma... if we took one of of the 2 and added an eastern team such as NCst... would we split AU/bama? or Vany/Tenn....

to me, this is our biggest dilemma, if one team comes from the east and one from the west.. we have a problem with our division splits due to demands by Bama.

Another round of realignments is going to happen, just a matter of which team gets invited to a P5 and starts the  merry go round.  I keep expecting to hear about VT or NCst moving to SEC.... though, not sure any P5 wants to take a B12 team, knowing it will send college football into a whirlwind and be the demise of the B12, leaving a lot of teams with no where to go.

If the expansion would involve Oklahoma at all, IMO it will be both schools or none. I seriously doubt that you are going to get one school and then add an ACC school. And as far as the ACC goes, FSU is the only one who has made any noise about not being happy with the ACC and they would be crazy to come to the SEC. No more easy roads to the play offs.

[Hawghiggs]

You wouldn't have to have "pods", just two divisions of 8 each. And finally, the East and the West are actually split from a true east to west.

West                          East
Ark                             Ala
LSU                            Aub
Miss                            Fla
Miss St                        Geo
Miz                              Ken
OU                              S. Car
OSU                            Tenn
A&M                            Vandy

The best thing about this scenario is that it puts Arkansas in the middle of the division. No more being an outlier of the conference.

[lefty08]

The best thing about this scenario is that it puts Arkansas in the middle of the division. No more being an outlier of the conference.

The old guard of The SEC would never allow auburn,bama,tennessee,uga,and Florida in 1 division. It just will never happen

[MuskogeeHogFan]

The old guard of The SEC would never allow auburn,bama,tennessee,uga,and Florida in 1 division. It just will never happen

Things change, Lefty.

[lefty08]

Things change, Lefty.

Personally I've got no problem with an arrangement like that, I just don't ever see it happening. I've made comments on other sec boards claiming the big 6 wouldn't have been the big 6 without the fortune of conference layout. That talk is met with vitriol, and I don't think it's only from people on message boards

[SamBuckhart]

I didn't want Missouri or a n m. Mostly for recruiting reasons on a n m part. Surely do not want ou. Though would not mind playing them on a regular schedule. Wooo Pig.

[GuvHog]

Personally I've got no problem with an arrangement like that, I just don't ever see it happening. I've made comments on other sec boards claiming the big 6 wouldn't have been the big 6 without the fortune of conference layout. That talk is met with vitriol, and I don't think it's only from people on message boards

You do realize that both Alabama and Auburn are ready and willing to move to the SEC EAST if they are asked to do so don't you??

[lefty08]

You do realize that both Alabama and Auburn are ready and willing to move to the SEC EAST if they are asked to do so don't you??

I don't believe that at all

[GuvHog]

I don't believe that at all

It was stated back during the last round of expansion. They don't want one in the SEC WEST and one in the SEC EAST, they just want to be together in the same Division no matter which one.

[EastexHawg]

I doubt Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Auburn, and LSU are worried that Texas would take over and ruin the conference if they and OU were admitted.

[GuvHog]

I doubt Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Auburn, and LSU are worried that Texas would take over and ruin the conference if they and OU were admitted.

They would be seriously worried though, if the Longhorns were allowed to keep their Longhorn Network if they are admitted to the SEC.

[EastexHawg]

They would be seriously worried though, if the Longhorns were allowed to keep their Longhorn Network if they are admitted to the SEC.

Don't you think a condition of being allowed in might be dissolution of, or at least failure to renew upon expiration of the current contract for, the Longhorn Network?

[GuvHog]

Don't you think a condition of being allowed in might be dissolution of, or at least failure to renew upon expiration of the current contract for, the Longhorn Network?

That would be a condition but Texas would never agree to it.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Don't you think a condition of being allowed in might be dissolution of, or at least failure to renew upon expiration of the current contract for, the Longhorn Network?

ESPN would take care of that. They aren't going to allow something like the failed LHN to interfere with the prosperous SEC Network, IMO. That said, I doubt that we ever see Texas in the SEC anyway.

[EastexHawg]

That would be a condition but Texas would never agree to it.

Why not?  The Longhorn Network has been an utter flop.  Even on Orangebloods.com, a Texas fan site, there is a story that points out that after 20 years the LHN will have grossed less than the Mayweather-Pacquiao fight made in one night.

ESPN and Texas have discovered that no one wants to watch women's volleyball and swimming and diving...no matter how many cowskulls the players have on their uniforms.  There isn't enough live football when you're only showing one team and that team has obligations to the conference's TV networks.

[Mike_e]

The LHN is easily gotten rid of.

ESPN just offers a buyout.  ut accepts and saves face and ESPN saves a boat load of money.

They could do it tomorrow if they wanted.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

The LHN is easily gotten rid of.

ESPN just offers a buyout.  ut accepts and saves face and ESPN saves a boat load of money.

They could do it tomorrow if they wanted.

Agreed, if Texas ever leaves the Big 12 and attempts to enter any other conference (except maybe the MWC) the LHN will die a very quick and timely death. It could survive for a while if they choose to go Independent, but even then, I doubt its ability to survive.

[lefty08]

Agreed, if Texas ever leaves the Big 12 and attempts to enter any other conference (except maybe the MWC) the LHN will die a very quick and timely death. It could survive for a while if they choose to go Independent, but even then, I doubt its ability to survive.

I doubt their athletic program's chances of survival of they ever go independent not to mention their network

[Mike_e]

All of this is fun to talk about but I doubt that the rats abandon ship until they know that the ship is sinking.

[seasonhog]

Agreed, if Texas ever leaves the Big 12 and attempts to enter any other conference (except maybe the MWC) the LHN will die a very quick and timely death. It could survive for a while if they choose to go Independent, but even then, I doubt its ability to survive.

I would like to see Texas in the SEC .......they have always been our rival......Mo. Is not it.

[Hawghiggs]

The LHN is easily gotten rid of.

ESPN just offers a buyout.  ut accepts and saves face and ESPN saves a boat load of money.

They could do it tomorrow if they wanted.

They built a studio on the campus. What are they supposed to do with that?

[MuskogeeHogFan]

They built a studio on the campus. What are they supposed to do with that?

You are kidding, right?

[lefty08]

They built a studio on the campus. What are they supposed to do with that?

Use it for their shows in the sec network

[Locutus_of_Boar]

You mention something that some on here may not know or remember.............Boren was a big politician in Oklahoma BEFORE he became OU President. IF anyone can maneuver the political land mines to "untether" OU and OSU it is him.

Oklahoma Gov. David Boren is most famously remembered for causing certain embarrassed OU grads to have to shell out good money to buy Arkansas Gov. David Pryor a Stetson.   

[Hawghiggs]

You are kidding, right?

No I'm not. I swear that I have read that it was part of the original agreement.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

No I'm not. I swear that I have read that it was part of the original agreement.

My point was, they aren't going to allow something like the cost of having built a studio keep them from making a quality business decision about shutting down a network that has been a complete failure. Building that studio was peanuts compared to what this has probably cost them otherwise.

[lefty08]

The future years of the sec network are gonna see more content from the individual schools as well, all sec teams will have their own studio for original content if they don't already

[MuskogeeHogFan]

The future years of the sec network are gonna see more content from the individual schools as well, all sec teams will have their own studio for original content if they don't already

But you can afford to invest in a program that is making money and has found success. But one that is a failure? Closing down a studio that you built for that loser is not a big deal.

[lefty08]

But you can afford to invest in a program that is making money and has found success. But one that is a failure? Closing down a studio that you built for that loser is not a big deal.

I agree, even Texas knows this.  If espn was to offer them a buyout right now I think they would jump all over it. Its Just not working and they know it

[Inhogswetrust]

Why not?  The Longhorn Network has been an utter flop.  Even on Orangebloods.com, a Texas fan site, there is a story that points out that after 20 years the LHN will have grossed less than the Mayweather-Pacquiao fight made in one night.

ESPN and Texas have discovered that no one wants to watch women's volleyball and swimming and diving...no matter how many cowskulls the players have on their uniforms.  There isn't enough live football when you're only showing one team and that team has obligations to the conference's TV networks.

It doesn't matter how many people watch it.......................it only matters how much money the school receives from it. That being said I'd bet there will be some renegotiation of their contract for it at some point and it might disappear altogether or be absorbed into some conferences network.

[Mike_e]

Newton's three laws apply to human psychology too.

[Dominicanhog]

If the expansion would involve Oklahoma at all, IMO it will be both schools or none. I seriously doubt that you are going to get one school and then add an ACC school. And as far as the ACC goes, FSU is the only one who has made any noise about not being happy with the ACC and they would be crazy to come to the SEC. No more easy roads to the play offs.

I know the not splitting the Oklahoma schools is common thought, but if they both had a P5 conference to go to, I think it could happen, not that I think it ever will, but times are changing and when the blocks start falling it becomes every man for him self.... as for the ACC, Maryland already left for many of the same reasons others may think about it.... better money and stability... Living in the DC area, I hear all the time from VT alumni.. the ones I talk to would be gung ho with a move to the SEC... they may change their minds after a few years in the league...

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Boren was a "yellow dog" democrat, one of those that was enrolled as a democrat but was highly conservative - democrat to get elected when that was the thing to do in SE OK. Burns Hargis, president of OSU, is a similarly conservative democrat who was once in OK politics. I suspect they are well-connected on this issue and will proceed in tandem...of some variety.

Said differently, unlike Texas where the population base is large enough to have warring factions, I think OK politicians would rally together and make sure that both OU and OSU are headed somewhere desirable vs letting one of them leave the other behind.

I suspect KU and KState are the same way, complicating things there (KU has the academics to go to the Pac12 or B1G but KState does not). OU would be borderline for either but politically might get in...OSU would not. It is the weakest academic institution in the Big 12 (and likely any of the power 5 conferences, including West Virginia and right there with the two MS schools from the SEC).

Just comparing national university rankings from U.S. News and World Report that takes into consideration the academic quality and educational missions of schools, here is the Big 12 compared to the SEC. Not sure but what Okla State wouldn't fit right in with the SEC. Not that they are coming because that would only be with OU and I doubt that happens.

School     Rank         Conf
Texas        53          Big 12
Baylor       71          Big 12
TCU          76          Big 12
OU           106         Big 12
Kansas     106         Big 12
Iowa St    106         Big 12
K-State    142         Big 12
OSU         145         Big 12
Tx Tech    156         Big 12
W Va        168         Big 12
      
Vandy         16          SEC
Florida        48          SEC
Georgia       62          SEC
A&M            68          SEC
Mizzou         99          SEC
Auburn       103          SEC
Tenn           106         SEC
S. Carolina  113         SEC
LSU            129          SEC
Kentucky     129         SEC
Arkansas     135         SEC
Ole Miss      149         SEC
Alabama      149         SEC
Miss St        156         SEC

Compare that to the Pac 12 as to why Okla State would likely never find a home in that conference, if academics are that large of a consideration.

Stanford          4
California        20
UCLA              23
USC                25
Washington     48
Colorado         88
Oregon          106
Arizona          121
Ariz St           129
Utah              129
Oregon St      138
Wash St         138           

[NaturalStateReb]

Why not?  The Longhorn Network has been an utter flop.  Even on Orangebloods.com, a Texas fan site, there is a story that points out that after 20 years the LHN will have grossed less than the Mayweather-Pacquiao fight made in one night.

ESPN and Texas have discovered that no one wants to watch women's volleyball and swimming and diving...no matter how many cowskulls the players have on their uniforms.  There isn't enough live football when you're only showing one team and that team has obligations to the conference's TV networks.

Because, even though it's a flop, it's still making good money for Texas.  ESPN is the party that would look to get rid of it.  Texas isn't going to say yes to getting rid of LHN early unless there's a big payday. 

Could ESPN do that, and integrate Texas into the SEC Network?  Sure.  But it's going to cost them.