OU to SEC Realignment Thread-Updated 7-26-15

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Former Big 12 Commissioner Don Beebe gets ridiculed after losing Nebraska, Colorado, A&M and Missouri to other conferences, but he might have seen the future and how the dismantling of the Big 12 might have had ripples across all of the P-5 Conferences.

It's slow right now and this is an interesting read from Andy Staples of Sports Illustrated.

An excerpt from the article, a quote from Beebe in June of 2010.

"A collateral consideration for all of us as national leaders in intercollegiate athletics is the creation of a few "mega-conferences" may result in more governmental, legal and public scrutiny. Pressure to compete may rise with resulting higher salaries and more churning of ADs and coaches. Clear identification of the highest level of intercollegiate athletics reduced to a smaller grouping of (e.g. four 16-member conferences) could cause eventual tax consequences and tremendous pressure to pay those student-athletes responsible in programs driving the most revenue and pressure, and whose coaches and administrators are receiving more and more financial rewards."

http://www.si.com/college-football/2015/06/11/dan-beebe-conference-realignment-five-years-later

[bphi11ips]

At what point does college football become professional football?

[MuskogeeHogFan]

At what point does college football become professional football?

Speaking of becoming "professional", in terms of anti-trust law, could the teams whose conferences become victims of a conference realignment (losing teams from their conference to larger conferences and thereby, financially weakening their own conferences), have a case for the larger conferences having a monopoly?

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I must admit that any attempt to give Beebe positive credit seems misdirected.

Maybe, but it seems that he had foresight that no one else seemed to have at he time. He begged them to agree on a "Grant of Rights" and they did, after he left. But as I read in another article, if someone made one or more of the big schools an offer that they couldn't refuse, it might not hold water in terms of keeping them tied to the Big 12.

Here's this article from a contract lawyer.

http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/outkick-the-coverage/myth-of-the-big-12s-grant-of-rights-010313

[Bacons Rebellion]

Without some kind of promotion / relegation provision (and what big school would EVER agree to that?) an anti-trust case would be a given, at some point.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Without some kind of promotion / relegation provision (and what big school would EVER agree to that?) an anti-trust case would be a given, at some point.

But it seems that history has shown that when teams (in the past) have left their conference for another, the financial package agreed to by the Media (ESPN/CBS/Fox, etc) have chosen to not scale down the previously agreed to financial package, thus remaining teams not being able to prove any real financial damage due to the departure of previous member schools. In fact, in the case of the Big 12, fewer schools are sharing the bounty of the t.v. package.

The question is, as the financial media agreements with conferences like the Pac 12 and particularly the Big Ten and the SEC continue to grow where members are receiving even more financial advantage (something like 31 million per school this year in the SEC to 20 million to each Big 12 member school), how long will it be before Big 12 member schools decide to make the jump, whether it be to the Big Ten or the SEC? And with only 10 schools right now, the defection of 1 school, let alone 2 more, might spur yet another conference expansion and either the demise of the Big 12 or an expansion with teams that would greatly diminish their value.

And to the most important point in all of this, how long will the various media outlets continue to guarantee previously agreed to financial packages when the potential for quality competition and viewership on the field, seems to be diminished? The networks have held strong to their word in the past, but what if the Big 12 product is diminished by the departure of Oklahoma and Oklahoma State and as a result, perhaps Texas as well?

Baylor, TCU and Texas Tech are not capable of upholding the value of this conference together, in the eyes of those who are buying the product on the field.

[BluegrassRazorback]

I read this and I'm struck by How much College Football has changed since I remember following my Razorbacks in 1964

That year really messed me up - the first seasons I really followed Arkansas they won 22 straight

Now - Lordy - semi pro at College - gosh

Back to the point of the thread - I remember many storied days in the SWC - with them Ark had significant historical footholds in Texas (see the large alumni &fan clubs in that region)

Now with all these  expansions changing the landscape - if your School is going to compete you have to be a national brand and recruit nationally - vs just a region

Things are far more complex in the game than it was before all these realignments

Now will the game be better? Not sure but it's an exciting time and Im hopeful Arkansas will improve its brand in the college landscape

[MuskogeeHogFan]

And on the heels of Big 12 Commish Bob Bowlsby saying that the Conference wasn't interested in expansion right now, Univ. of Oklahoma President David Boren says,

"I think we should," Boren told The Oklahoman after the school's board meeting, when asked if the league should expand back to 12 teams.

"How many years can this go on? It just gets to be really debilitating. I worry about that. That's something I just worry about long-term about the conference, not short-term."

And according to ESPN, here are the likely options which include the possibility of adding "North Dakota State?".

http://espn.go.com/blog/big12/post/_/id/100365/ou-president-boren-puts-possible-big-12-expansion-back-in-news

[Hog N Bama]

OU in a conference with the likes of North Dakota State.. I LOVE IT!

[MuskogeeHogFan]

OU in a conference with the likes of North Dakota State.. I LOVE IT!

Hey, they have a rabid fan base, a pretty good football team (they have beaten more Big 12 teams than Kansas of late) and they have hosted ESPN's College Gameday a couple of times over the last few years. So there's that.

[Hogfaniam]

Hey, they have a rabid fan base, a pretty good football team (they have beaten more Big 12 teams than Kansas of late) and they have hosted ESPN's College Gameday a couple of times over the last few years. So there's that.

Facilities wise, They are pretty much set for all sports except football.  The basketball arena is smallish.  Around 6000.  Bigger games could go to the Bison Dome I guess.  They would need a whole new football stadium, at least twice+ the size they have now.  I guess oil money could afford it.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Facilities wise, They are pretty much set for all sports except football.  The basketball arena is smallish.  Around 6000.  Bigger games could go to the Bison Dome I guess.  They would need a whole new football stadium, at least twice+ the size they have now.  I guess oil money could afford it.

Seats 19,000 for football. But I doubt that is the road that the Big 12 takes. They were mentioned in the article, but so was BYU, Boise State, Air Force, and others as well as the potential of raiding the ACC and finally, making an overture to Nebraska to move back to the conference.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

And Andy Staples' follow up on the potential for Big 12 expansion, the error in not grabbing Louisville and Florida state's interest in coming to the Big 12.

http://www.si.com/college-football/2015/06/24/big-12-expansion-conference-realignment-oklahoma-david-boren

[NaturalStateReb]

Former Big 12 Commissioner Don Beebe gets ridiculed after losing Nebraska, Colorado, A&M and Missouri to other conferences, but he might have seen the future and how the dismantling of the Big 12 might have had ripples across all of the P-5 Conferences.

It's slow right now and this is an interesting read from Andy Staples of Sports Illustrated.

An excerpt from the article, a quote from Beebe in June of 2010.

"A collateral consideration for all of us as national leaders in intercollegiate athletics is the creation of a few "mega-conferences" may result in more governmental, legal and public scrutiny. Pressure to compete may rise with resulting higher salaries and more churning of ADs and coaches. Clear identification of the highest level of intercollegiate athletics reduced to a smaller grouping of (e.g. four 16-member conferences) could cause eventual tax consequences and tremendous pressure to pay those student-athletes responsible in programs driving the most revenue and pressure, and whose coaches and administrators are receiving more and more financial rewards."

http://www.si.com/college-football/2015/06/11/dan-beebe-conference-realignment-five-years-later

Beebe's actually a pretty smart guy--he was one of the chief investigators of the SMU Death Penalty case.  No one, given the behavior of Texas and DeLoss Dodds at the time, could have held the old Big 12 together. 

Unless it expands before the GOR is up, I think the Big 12 will dissolve at that point.  It'll start with someone on the periphery, and I think that someone is West Virginia.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Beebe's actually a pretty smart guy--he was one of the chief investigators of the SMU Death Penalty case.  No one, given the behavior of Texas and DeLoss Dodds at the time, could have held the old Big 12 together. 

Unless it expands before the GOR is up, I think the Big 12 will dissolve at that point.  It'll start with someone on the periphery, and I think that someone is West Virginia.

But as pointed out above, the GOR means little if someone like a "West Virginia" for instance, decides to leave the conference and the amount paid to the conference for t.v. rights remains unchanged, as it has in the past. If that is how it plays out again, the GOR agreement is basically worthless because no school would be damaged by their departure, and no school is going to agree to leave their t.v. rights with the Big 12, even though that is what the GOR's states. Frankly, I can't believe that any of them agreed to that to begin with.

What I do expect though is to see the Big 12 expand sometime in the next 2-5 years.

[Locutus_of_Boar]

At what point does college football become professional football?

Never and this has nothing to do with paying the players.  In the NFL the focus is on the players themselves and the players can remain with any franchise as long as they are productive.  College players see the field for 2 to 4 years and they are gone and so the focus and loyalty of the audience remains firmly fixed on the program and much less on the individual players.

The power 5 conferences are not competing with the NFL.  They sell a fundamentally different product based on the tradition and the spectacle of the college game.  For the audience simply wanting to see the best players make the best plays the 32 franchise NFL meets the customer demand.  If it did not meet the demand then someone else would have started a competing league that could pay better than the colleges.

[Aggie96]

Two of the names that have come up over on our site have been Nebraska (yeah like that will freaking happen, they just left that clown show a few years back)

and get ready for this...

ARKANSAS!!!

Yep, their delusion is so strong and their need to be in a conference that adds to the murderers row of KSU, Iowa State, and Kansas has lead some of them to believe that it is actually an option and that you guys would welcome leaving the SEC to put the old SWC 2.0 back together.

Those fools never cease to amaze me. 

That is all carry on

[Inhogswetrust]

Two of the names that have come up over on our site have been Nebraska (yeah like that will freaking happen, they just left that clown show a few years back)

and get ready for this...

ARKANSAS!!!

Yep, their delusion is so strong and their need to be in a conference that adds to the murderers row of KSU, Iowa State, and Kansas has lead some of them to believe that it is actually an option and that you guys would welcome leaving the SEC to put the old SWC 2.0 back together.

Those fools never cease to amaze me. 

That is all carry on

Their arrogance and stupidity knows no bounds...........................

[Mike_e]

If Baylor and TCU can sustain their level then the big whatever doesn't have to move in the near future.  Their TV package may still be marginal but not such a drain that it can't be maintained.

If they can't though then the big whatever might just implode.  They still have a contract but could be told that it wouldn't be picked up or would be greatly lowered in value and upon hearing that the schools who could jump would have to.

Barring Congress getting involved I think the only way expansion cranks back up is through failure, either through marketability on the field somewhere or by one or more schools being left behind in their own contracts due to the success of others.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

If Baylor and TCU can sustain their level then the big whatever doesn't have to move in the near future.  Their TV package may still be marginal but not such a drain that it can't be maintained.

If they can't though then the big whatever might just implode.  They still have a contract but could be told that it wouldn't be picked up or would be greatly lowered in value and upon hearing that the schools who could jump would have to.

Barring Congress getting involved I think the only way expansion cranks back up is through failure, either through marketability on the field somewhere or by one or more schools being left behind in their own contracts due to the success of others.

I think they will expand. David Boren is a key player in all of this and one of two President's in that conference that wield a big stick. Bob Bowlsby can say whatever he wants but if Texas and Oklahoma say that they need to expand and get back to 12 teams, I'm pretty sure it will happen and they will be supported by the others in the conference as well.

The only question is, do they go for the easy choice (BYU/Boise State) or do they take a more difficult course that will take longer, like raiding another conference to put two opponents closer to W. Virginia?

I think that if they don't take this course they will eventually lose WVU because they are so geographically removed from the rest of the conference and adding someone like BYU and Boise State would just make matters even more difficult for someone like WVU.

[NaturalStateReb]

If Baylor and TCU can sustain their level then the big whatever doesn't have to move in the near future.  Their TV package may still be marginal but not such a drain that it can't be maintained.

If they can't though then the big whatever might just implode.  They still have a contract but could be told that it wouldn't be picked up or would be greatly lowered in value and upon hearing that the schools who could jump would have to.

Barring Congress getting involved I think the only way expansion cranks back up is through failure, either through marketability on the field somewhere or by one or more schools being left behind in their own contracts due to the success of others.

I think they'll expand because the gap between their schools and the SEC/B1G/Pac12 is going to expand.

Those other major conferences have networks.  The SEC Network and the Big Ten Network are doing well; you can bet that the Pac-12 Network will change how it operates to increase its revenue as well. 

At some point, the earnings of those networks are going to outstrip what Oklahoma and everyone else in the Big 12 outside of Austin can possibly produce, short of a Big-12 Network.  That means that they pressure will begin to mount to create one, and they'll need content.  Which means more teams, especially if Texas doesn't want to play.

Considering the dumpster fire that is LHN, ESPN might bankroll a Big 12 Network just to cut its losses there, but they'll need more content to make it happen.

[NaturalStateReb]

I think they will expand. David Boren is a key player in all of this and one of two President's in that conference that wield a big stick. Bob Bowlsby can say whatever he wants but if Texas and Oklahoma say that they need to expand and get back to 12 teams, I'm pretty sure it will happen and they will be supported by the others in the conference as well.

The only question is, do they go for the easy choice (BYU/Boise State) or do they take a more difficult course that will take longer, like raiding another conference to put two opponents closer to W. Virginia?

I think that if they don't take this course they will eventually lose WVU because they are so geographically removed from the rest of the conference and adding someone like BYU and Boise State would just make matters even more difficult for someone like WVU.

If Boren was a power player, he'd have gotten Louisville.  He's been itching for expansion, but Texas says no.  It just doesn't seem like he's too willing to go against Texas when the chips get down.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

If Boren was a power player, he'd have gotten Louisville.  He's been itching for expansion, but Texas says no.  It just doesn't seem like he's too willing to go against Texas when the chips get down.

It isn't that he isn't a power player, it's just that he and a lot of other folks really screwed up not snagging Louisville when they had the chance. Even power players make mistakes.

[Murr]

And on the heels of Big 12 Commish Bob Bowlsby saying that the Conference wasn't interested in expansion right now, Univ. of Oklahoma President David Boren says,

"I think we should," Boren told The Oklahoman after the school's board meeting, when asked if the league should expand back to 12 teams.

"How many years can this go on? It just gets to be really debilitating. I worry about that. That's something I just worry about long-term about the conference, not short-term."

And according to ESPN, here are the likely options which include the possibility of adding "North Dakota State?".

http://espn.go.com/blog/big12/post/_/id/100365/ou-president-boren-puts-possible-big-12-expansion-back-in-news

Boren setting the ground work for OU'S exit.  It won't be under his watch, but the new President will have to find OU'S future home.

Their fan base is pretty scattered with where they would want to go if OU left the B12; B1G, PAC and SEC are the most talked about. I would love to see them in the SEC as it would provide it's fan base with best football match ups.

[Murr]

If Boren was a power player, he'd have gotten Louisville.  He's been itching for expansion, but Texas says no.  It just doesn't seem like he's too willing to go against Texas when the chips get down.

Boren wants OU in a stable conference.  Right now the votes are just not there to bring in AAC schools to develop into solid P5/B12 schools.  Only OU, WVU and Iowa State are rumored to be in favor of expanding with AAC candidates.

I don't think we'll see the B12 expand until we figure out what happens with the ACC Network.  FSU'S BOT is still concerned with the Financials and wondering if they be able to compete with the impending changes coming to college football.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Boren wants OU in a stable conference.  Right now the votes are just not there to bring in AAC schools to develop into solid P5/B12 schools.  Only OU, WVU and Iowa State are rumored to be in favor of expanding with AAC candidates.

I don't think we'll see the B12 expand until we figure out what happens with the ACC Network.  FSU'S BOT is still concerned with the Financials and wondering if they be able to compete with the impending changes coming to college football.

I think that they either expand soon to get back to 12 teams or you see some defections. The problem they have is one of regional relevance. If they want to keep WVA they better select schools that are more easterly. Cincy might be one choice, Memphis might be another as opposed to taking a longer term approach to raiding the ACC because I can't see that happening overnight.

On the other hand, if they invite BYU and Boise State, which would be quicker expansion candidates like the two I mentioned from the east, they had better be looking for a third team as well because adding two teams from that far west would alienate WVA even more from a regional standpoint.

The next few years it is going to be interesting to see what the Big 12 does and what ripple effects it might have on other college football conferences.

[Aggie96]

I think that they either expand soon to get back to 12 teams or you see some defections. The problem they have is one of regional relevance. If they want to keep WVA they better select schools that are more easterly. Cincy might be one choice, Memphis might be another as opposed to taking a longer term approach to raiding the ACC because I can't see that happening overnight.

On the other hand, if they invite BYU and Boise State, which would be quicker expansion candidates like the two I mentioned from the east, they had better be looking for a third team as well because adding two teams from that far west would alienate WVA even more from a regional standpoint.

The next few years it is going to be interesting to see what the Big 12 does and what ripple effects it might have on other college football conferences.

I honestly believe that the only thing keeping the BIG XII-2-2+1+1 alive is the albatross that is the LHN. If that wasn't in play then the sips, mobilehoma, Okie Light, and the Tceh tards would be in the PAC whatever. This is what broke the deal before for them when we left and the PAC would not sign off on it then and certainly won't do it now that they have their own network too.
If OU and Okie light actually nut up and leave then you will see the sips go Indy (because no conference is going to accept the LHN at this point and they are stuck in that deal with ESPN.) The rest just fall off into lesser conferences or maybe move to an open slot in one of the other remaining P4 conferences. Then you would see 4 power conferences with 64 teams and I think that could be an even bigger change to the college athletics structure where you could even potentially see them not even needed or wanting the governance of the NCAA.

Now that would be entertaining to watch unfold.

[Hawghiggs]

 I think the Big 12 will expand soon. But Oklahoma won't be apart of it. I believe that the Sooners are SEC bound along with either Kansas or TCU. Texas will move to football independent and place all other sports in the ACC. The rest of the Big 12 will add Colorado state, New Mexico, and Houston to stabilize the conference.

[Aggie96]

I think the Big 12 will expand soon. But Oklahoma won't be apart of it. I believe that the Sooners are SEC bound along with either Kansas or TCU. Texas will move to football independent and place all other sports in the ACC. The rest of the Big 12 will add Colorado state, New Mexico, and Houston to stabilize the conference.

No way that happens or even makes any sense.
Oklahoma has about 4 million people in the entire state. What do they bring to the table as far as TV revenue? Dallas? Nope, already locked down with the addition of A&M and the eastern pull from you guys.
What does TCU bring to the table? A commuter school in Texas is not going to get added to the SEC.
While Kansas could bring in something for Basketball, their total viewership has already been impacted by Mizzou coming over. The biggest market they can pull is Kansas City and that came over with Mizzou.

In order for this to work the school will have to bring at least 7 million viewers in their markets. Otherwise you are cutting a slightly larger pie into smaller pieces and the 14 existing SEC members will be taking a pay cut.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

No way that happens or even makes any sense.
Oklahoma has about 4 million people in the entire state. What do they bring to the table as far as TV revenue? Dallas? Nope, already locked down with the addition of A&M and the eastern pull from you guys.
What does TCU bring to the table? A commuter school in Texas is not going to get added to the SEC.
While Kansas could bring in something for Basketball, their total viewership has already been impacted by Mizzou coming over. The biggest market they can pull is Kansas City and that came over with Mizzou.

In order for this to work the school will have to bring at least 7 million viewers in their markets. Otherwise you are cutting a slightly larger pie into smaller pieces and the 14 existing SEC members will be taking a pay cut.

Check out some of the links to articles discussing the Big 12 Grant of Rights that is in place. This was supposed to insure Big 12 stability through a certain future date (don't remember what that was but it is in those articles). But about the only way that a GOR's is going to be effective is if one team or a group of teams suffers a provable financial loss due to the departure of one or more schools.

In the past, when schools have left conferences the media package was not reduced for the remaining conference members by the networks with whom those packages existed. So, no provable loss which would tend to cause any court that might be involved to rule that there wasn't a case for damages.

But how long is that going to continue? If the Big 12 lost Oklahoma and/or Texas, knowing that wherever Oklahoma goes, Oklahoma State will follow (state politics), the Big 12 would lose the strength of their foundation as a conference. Would their media financial package remain unchanged? I doubt it. It might be the first time that we see an immediate renegotiation of a t.v. package based on the loss of 1 or 2, maybe 3 of their most watched schools. This of course would change how these things have been handled in the past and in that case, would indeed create a situation where the remaining schools might have a case for damages against the departing schools.

Then there is the part of their GOR's agreement that says that if any Big 12 school does depart that the Big 12 will retain the rights to their t.v. appearances. I'm not sure why any school agreed with this, but it is a part of the agreement and what conference would want to take a school from the Big 12 when they wouldn't benefit from their t.v. appearances?

Bottom line, the simplest and least litigious route for any of the schools in the Big 12 is to expand, whether it be by taking the simpler and quicker route of inviting an independent and schools from lesser conferences, or taking the more difficult route which would involve raiding another P-5 conference. JMO

[tigers68]

Expansion thus far has been about expanding your conference's footprint and bringing in new television markets.  With that being said, if the SEC expands, OU will NOT be their first or second choice.  They are WAY down the list.  The SEC would rather have UNC, UVA, NCSt, or VATech.  Any two of those teams, with one from North Carolina (population just under 10 million) and Virginia (population 8 million)  Bringing in Mobilehoma gains you a population of 4 million, and an academic stature that's a considerable dropoff from what the SEC gained in bringing in Mizzou and aTm.  Oh and by the way, Dave Boren is a friggin idiot with a big mouth.  It was his big mouth and his "Oklahoma will not be a wallflower in the conference realignment game" that pushed Mizzou to actively start looking at other options outside the Big 12.  And that comes directly from former Mizzou A.D. Mike Alden.

[hoghiker]

Interesting post all around. Lots of informed speculation about how things will play out. College football is undoubtedly in the mist of a metamorphosis. 30 years ago these decisions would all be made by conference commissioners, college Presidents and ADs but not today. ESPN will have enormous influence in how this all plays out. In the end it's about survival and money. Sport networks can deliver both. The revised golden rule: those with the gold make the rules.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Expansion thus far has been about expanding your conference's footprint and bringing in new television markets.  With that being said, if the SEC expands, OU will NOT be their first or second choice.  They are WAY down the list.  The SEC would rather have UNC, UVA, NCSt, or VATech.  Any two of those teams, with one from North Carolina (population just under 10 million) and Virginia (population 8 million)  Bringing in Mobilehoma gains you a population of 4 million, and an academic stature that's a considerable dropoff from what the SEC gained in bringing in Mizzou and aTm.  Oh and by the way, Dave Boren is a friggin idiot with a big mouth.  It was his big mouth and his "Oklahoma will not be a wallflower in the conference realignment game" that pushed Mizzou to actively start looking at other options outside the Big 12.  And that comes directly from former Mizzou A.D. Mike Alden.

I hear your disdain for them but I don't think you have worry about Oklahoma winding up in the SEC, or anywhere else. The Big 12 is going to expand in my opinion. Anything else might be too difficult to be worth it in the end.

[NaturalStateReb]

I think that they either expand soon to get back to 12 teams or you see some defections. The problem they have is one of regional relevance. If they want to keep WVA they better select schools that are more easterly. Cincy might be one choice, Memphis might be another as opposed to taking a longer term approach to raiding the ACC because I can't see that happening overnight.

On the other hand, if they invite BYU and Boise State, which would be quicker expansion candidates like the two I mentioned from the east, they had better be looking for a third team as well because adding two teams from that far west would alienate WVA even more from a regional standpoint.

The next few years it is going to be interesting to see what the Big 12 does and what ripple effects it might have on other college football conferences.

Who would defect?  Texas has the conference wrapped around its finger.  Oklahoma says they want to expand, not leave, and they can't go on their own.  No one else has the ability to leave.  I think college football's clown car holds together until one of the GOR's is up.

[NaturalStateReb]

No way that happens or even makes any sense.
Oklahoma has about 4 million people in the entire state. What do they bring to the table as far as TV revenue? Dallas? Nope, already locked down with the addition of A&M and the eastern pull from you guys.
What does TCU bring to the table? A commuter school in Texas is not going to get added to the SEC.
While Kansas could bring in something for Basketball, their total viewership has already been impacted by Mizzou coming over. The biggest market they can pull is Kansas City and that came over with Mizzou.

In order for this to work the school will have to bring at least 7 million viewers in their markets. Otherwise you are cutting a slightly larger pie into smaller pieces and the 14 existing SEC members will be taking a pay cut.

Oklahoma brings an enormous brand.  The next round won't be about counting TV sets--the SEC Network is already an enormous success with national reach.  It'll be about adding brands that make people want to watch the network.  Oklahoma does that in spades, and it will make them a sought-after target if the SEC decides to expand again.

[NaturalStateReb]

Expansion thus far has been about expanding your conference's footprint and bringing in new television markets.  With that being said, if the SEC expands, OU will NOT be their first or second choice.  They are WAY down the list.  The SEC would rather have UNC, UVA, NCSt, or VATech.  Any two of those teams, with one from North Carolina (population just under 10 million) and Virginia (population 8 million)  Bringing in Mobilehoma gains you a population of 4 million, and an academic stature that's a considerable dropoff from what the SEC gained in bringing in Mizzou and aTm.  Oh and by the way, Dave Boren is a friggin idiot with a big mouth.  It was his big mouth and his "Oklahoma will not be a wallflower in the conference realignment game" that pushed Mizzou to actively start looking at other options outside the Big 12.  And that comes directly from former Mizzou A.D. Mike Alden.

We'd love to have UNC and UVA.  UNC is the SEC's Notre Dame, the school you want but you just can't get.  We're not going to get either of them, or maybe any Tobacco Road school, if the core ACC schools hold together.

[Inhogswetrust]

We'd love to have UNC and UVA.  UNC is the SEC's Notre Dame, the school you want but you just can't get.  We're not going to get either of them, or maybe any Tobacco Road school, if the core ACC schools hold together.

SEC doesn't need the old core ACC schools.........Go after VT and one other.

[NaturalStateReb]

SEC doesn't don't need the old core ACC schools………Get VT and one other.

None of them will leave if the ACC core stays together.  They know that, between them and the Big 12, they've got the better chance of surviving as a power league by just holding together.

[Inhogswetrust]

None of them will leave if the ACC core stays together.  They know that, between them and the Big 12, they've got the better chance of surviving as a power league by just holding together.

Maryland left.............................and I'd bet IF it was easier to leave now then a few more would at least consider it for the SEC or big10 if they came to talk to them. 

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Who would defect?  Texas has the conference wrapped around its finger.  Oklahoma says they want to expand, not leave, and they can't go on their own.  No one else has the ability to leave.  I think college football's clown car holds together until one of the GOR's is up.

I expect that they expand before anyone defects. Too many potential legal battles otherwise. Expansion is the most likely with the least potential litigation. Question is, who is involved in the expansion?

[Hawghiggs]

I expect that they expand before anyone defects. Too many potential legal battles otherwise. Expansion is the most likely with the least potential litigation. Question is, who is involved in the expansion?

If I was Oklahoma. I would push Colorado state and New Mexico. Both regional and both have good media markets. This type of expansion could allow the Sooners to get out of the grant of rights with minimal penalty.

[Murr]

Then there is the part of their GOR's agreement that says that if any Big 12 school does depart that the Big 12 will retain the rights to their t.v. appearances. I'm not sure why any school agreed with this, but it is a part of the agreement and what conference would want to take a school from the Big 12 when they wouldn't benefit from their t.v. appearances?

The contract lawyer in the above linked article stated that there is one big problem with the B12's GOR: The exit/termination section of the GOR is blank.  No set value for damages has been established which means everything is negotiatible.

[Murr]

Expansion thus far has been about expanding your conference's footprint and bringing in new television markets.  With that being said, if the SEC expands, OU will NOT be their first or second choice.  They are WAY down the list.  The SEC would rather have UNC, UVA, NCSt, or VATech.  Any two of those teams, with one from North Carolina (population just under 10 million) and Virginia (population 8 million)  Bringing in Mobilehoma gains you a population of 4 million, and an academic stature that's a considerable dropoff from what the SEC gained in bringing in Mizzou and aTm.  Oh and by the way, Dave Boren is a friggin idiot with a big mouth.  It was his big mouth and his "Oklahoma will not be a wallflower in the conference realignment game" that pushed Mizzou to actively start looking at other options outside the Big 12.  And that comes directly from former Mizzou A.D. Mike Alden.

Disagree.  When Texas A&M was entering the SEC, OU was also handed an invitation.  Boren turned it down stating he would have considered it more if OSU and Texas were also  offered. 

OU is a school worth expanding for, just like A&M was.

[Murr]

None of them will leave if the ACC core stays together.  They know that, between them and the Big 12, they've got the better chance of surviving as a power league by just holding together.

If you want to break apart the ACC, you start by taking out its top football program: FSU.

FSU's BOT has repeatedly and publicly stated concerns on $$$ and the up coming football landscape with cost of attendance and other power 5 fees.  This can be patched up with an ACC Network, assuming that starts up. 

[MuskogeeHogFan]

If you want to break apart the ACC, you start by taking out its top football program: FSU.

FSU's BOT has repeatedly and publicly stated concerns on $$$ and the up coming football landscape with cost of attendance and other power 5 fees.  This can be patched up with an ACC Network, assuming that starts up. 

And, I'm not sure how many options they have? Their best bet is pushing for what you suggested. The Big 12, though they have been mentioned, seems like a far flung option, but if they plan to keep W Va they had better add a couple of someone's from the east. Not sure if the SEC would want FSU.

[NaturalStateReb]

Expansion thus far has been about expanding your conference's footprint and bringing in new television markets.  With that being said, if the SEC expands, OU will NOT be their first or second choice.  They are WAY down the list.  The SEC would rather have UNC, UVA, NCSt, or VATech.  Any two of those teams, with one from North Carolina (population just under 10 million) and Virginia (population 8 million)  Bringing in Mobilehoma gains you a population of 4 million, and an academic stature that's a considerable dropoff from what the SEC gained in bringing in Mizzou and aTm.  Oh and by the way, Dave Boren is a friggin idiot with a big mouth.  It was his big mouth and his "Oklahoma will not be a wallflower in the conference realignment game" that pushed Mizzou to actively start looking at other options outside the Big 12.  And that comes directly from former Mizzou A.D. Mike Alden.

Not anymore.  Content is king now. 

Pre-network launch, the worry was about getting enough people to subscribe in order to make it profitable.  Post-launch, it's clear those worries are completely behind us.  The SEC Network is a national network, thanks to ESPN and the conference's competitiveness. 

What we need now is content:  more, and more compelling.  Yes, UNC and UVA would do that for us, and there's no doubt that they'd be the first targets.  But there's an excellent chance they'll never leave the ACC, and that makes OU extremely attractive:  it's a major football brand, it geographically and culturally sensible, it would add to the offseason sports. 

If you think the future of cable is a la carte programming choices, then you want to focus on making your channel must-see-TV.  Footprints will be meaningless; only content will count.  Oklahoma brings that.

[NaturalStateReb]

I expect that they expand before anyone defects. Too many potential legal battles otherwise. Expansion is the most likely with the least potential litigation. Question is, who is involved in the expansion?

I thought that Oklahoma wouldn't go it alone (and maybe they still wouldn't without OSU), but one of Boren's follow-up remarks did make an impression:  the TV deal for the Big 12 stays the same as long as they have between 10 and 12 members. 

Putting on my little tinfoil hat here:  what if Boren's laying the foundation for a no-cost exit from the Big 12?  If the TV deal doesn't change if there's 10-12 teams in the conference, they could add two, then if OU leaves, the money stays the same.  The net result would be no damages, meaning that OU wouldn't have to pay anything potentially to leave.

[tigers68]

I'll also mention that getting aTm and Mizzou to vote OU into the SEC would be a struggle.  They always sided with Texas when it came to revenue sharing.  OU is just as responsible for the clownshow in the B12 as Texas is. 

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I thought that Oklahoma wouldn't go it alone (and maybe they still wouldn't without OSU), but one of Boren's follow-up remarks did make an impression:  the TV deal for the Big 12 stays the same as long as they have between 10 and 12 members. 

Putting on my little tinfoil hat here:  what if Boren's laying the foundation for a no-cost exit from the Big 12?  If the TV deal doesn't change if there's 10-12 teams in the conference, they could add two, then if OU leaves, the money stays the same.  The net result would be no damages, meaning that OU wouldn't have to pay anything potentially to leave.

Yeah, scroll up to where I talk about that according to the lawyers. It isn't just the Big 12, the networks have yet to reduce a financial media agreement with a conference if they lost schools from the package and therefore, no legal foundation for financial damages that might cause member schools to bring suit against the defecting school for damages. So far, anyway.

But that is what I was speculating about as well. I'm not saying it is going to happen, in fact I don't believe that it will, but if a situation arose where Oklahoma left (and Okla State will always go with them) and Texas decided to go Independent as a result, would the networks keep the media agreement the same and pay out the same amount of money to the surviving members, in the absence of Texas, OU and OSU? What do you pay "The Big 7"?

I could see, for the first time, the networks coming back with a sound argument for restructuring the package based on the fact that the former Big 12 product has diminished in value. Additionally, the Big 12 GOR's states that if any team defects prior to the expiration of the GOR's agreement, the Big 12 still retains that team's television rights.

In that case where for the first time the Networks might reduce the previously agreed upon financial arrangement, the remaining schools might have grounds for damages against the school or schools who left and even if they didn't pursue that option, I'm not sure that any conference wants to accept a new member whose t.v. rights (even for a period of time) are retained by the conference that they left.

For all of those reasons and because Oklahoma is nervous about the future stability of the conference in the absence of expansion(and I am sure they aren't the only one), I think it is all about expansion for them rather than any thoughts of leaving.

[NaturalStateReb]

Yeah, scroll up to where I talk about that according to the lawyers. It isn't just the Big 12, the networks have yet to reduce a financial media agreement with a conference if they lost schools from the package and therefore, no legal foundation for financial damages that might cause member schools to bring suit against the defecting school for damages. So far, anyway.

But that is what I was speculating about as well. I'm not saying it is going to happen, in fact I don't believe that it will, but if a situation arose where Oklahoma left (and Okla State will always go with them) and Texas decided to go Independent as a result, would the networks keep the media agreement the same and pay out the same amount of money to the surviving members, in the absence of Texas, OU and OSU? What do you pay "The Big 7"?

I could see, for the first time, the networks coming back with a sound argument for restructuring the package based on the fact that the former Big 12 product has diminished in value. Additionally, the Big 12 GOR's states that if any team defects prior to the expiration of the GOR's agreement, the Big 12 still retains that team's television rights.

In that case where for the first time the Networks might reduce the previously agreed upon financial arrangement, the remaining schools might have grounds for damages against the school or schools who left and even if they didn't pursue that option, I'm not sure that any conference wants to accept a new member whose t.v. rights (even for a period of time) are retained by the conference that they left.

For all of those reasons and because Oklahoma is nervous about the future stability of the conference in the absence of expansion(and I am sure they aren't the only one), I think it is all about expansion for them rather than any thoughts of leaving.

My understanding is that if the number of conference members falls below 8, the Big 12 TV deal is void.  That's just 3 defections.