Rivals Recruiting Ranking - Hogs @ #25

[EastexHawg]

10th- I'm assuming Mizzou is below and SC is above.

Who should we be outperforming in the rankings out of the 9 above us?  UK?  Ok.  They do have location but not an emphasis on football. 

This perspective kills me.  "We're not very good, so why should our recruiting be any better than not very good as well?  Why would anyone want to come here?"

The acceptance of mediocrity within both our administration and our fan base is now almost complete.  Once the old timers die off everyone will be ecstatic with "winning seasons" and merely making the NCAA basketball tournament.

[Atlhogfan1]

This perspective kills me.  "We're not very good, so why should our recruiting be any better than not very good as well?  Why would anyone want to come here?"

The acceptance of mediocrity within both our administration and our fan base is now almost complete.  Once the old timers die off everyone will be ecstatic with "winning seasons" and merely making the NCAA basketball tournament.

It kills me that someone would be dumb enough to think that is the perspective. 

[Pork Twain]

This perspective kills me.  "We're not very good, so why should our recruiting be any better than not very good as well?  Why would anyone want to come here?"

The acceptance of mediocrity within both our administration and our fan base is now almost complete.  Once the old timers die off everyone will be ecstatic with "winning seasons" and merely making the NCAA basketball tournament.

Based on numerous factors that play into it, do you think socioeconomic mobility is easy or difficult in the United States (i.e if you are born into poverty, you will more than likely die in it and if you are born into money, you will more than likely die with it)?

[colbs]

This perspective kills me.  "We're not very good, so why should our recruiting be any better than not very good as well?  Why would anyone want to come here?"

The acceptance of mediocrity within both our administration and our fan base is now almost complete.  Once the old timers die off everyone will be ecstatic with "winning seasons" and merely making the NCAA basketball tournament.

Arkansas has pretty much been in the 20-30 range of the recruiting rankings ever since the beginning of recruiting rankings.  I think it's just what it is.  I do expect Arkansas to do more than just have a winning season.  Really outside of paying players and/or having four 9+ winning seasons in row Arkansas is probably not going to start pulling in top 10 or 15 classes.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

You can't convince me that the 11th ranked recruiting class in the conference is over performing. Two of the three schools below us are under NCAA investigation and the other is Vandy.

Would take some major mental gymnastics to even try to convince you.  But mental gymnastics in the recruiting forum as SOP.

[Pig in the Pokey]

We are actually Tied for 24th.

[NotSoFastMyFriend]

About where we always have been and about where we will always be.  We just have to continue to have a low miss-rate and develop our talent.

[Hogwild]

This perspective kills me.  "We're not very good, so why should our recruiting be any better than not very good as well?  Why would anyone want to come here?"

The acceptance of mediocrity within both our administration and our fan base is now almost complete.  Once the old timers die off everyone will be ecstatic with "winning seasons" and merely making the NCAA basketball tournament.

You are pointing out one of the biggest problems in the program, the "little ole Arkansas" attitude.  I've read posters on this site saying they would be happy with 6/7 win season, good grades, and a bowl trip, since we can't compete with the powerhouses in the SEC.   

[NotSoFastMyFriend]

This perspective kills me.  "We're not very good, so why should our recruiting be any better than not very good as well?  Why would anyone want to come here?"

The acceptance of mediocrity within both our administration and our fan base is now almost complete.  Once the old timers die off everyone will be ecstatic with "winning seasons" and merely making the NCAA basketball tournament.

That's not the perspective. The perspective is closer to:

"Hogs need to recruit athletes with high ceilings, develop those players, lower their miss rate, keep putting 3* players in to the walk-on program, take at least 8-10 mid-term enrollees every December and hope for a really deep in-state class every 5 years.

Five of those six things are completely controllable. Due to proximity to talent, the Hogs need some help. I think the team will improve next year on the field (9-10 wins) and that has the potential to help recruiting dramatically. This is the perspective that I see in a lot of posts on here but hey, I see what I want to see and you see what you want to see and that's cool. That's one of the things that I do like about this board.

[Pork Twain]

You are pointing out one of the biggest problems in the program, the "little ole Arkansas" attitude.  I've read posters on this site saying they would be happy with 6/7 win season, good grades, and a bowl trip, since we can't compete with the powerhouses in the SEC.   

If you look hard enough you can find almost any idiot saying anything.  Saying you, "have read posters on this site saying they would be happy with 6/7 win season, good grades, and a bowl trip, since we can't compete with the powerhouses in the SEC," is more than a little disingenuous, as those people are outliers.  Almost all of us want to average 8-9 wins a year with more 10+ win years than -6 win years.  To expect 10 wins a year regularly is unrealistic though.

[Hogwild]

If you look hard enough you can find almost any idiot saying anything.  Saying you, "have read posters on this site saying they would be happy with 6/7 win season, good grades, and a bowl trip, since we can't compete with the powerhouses in the SEC," is more than a little disingenuous, as those people are outliers.  Almost all of us want to average 8-9 wins a year with more 10+ win years than -6 win years.  To expect 10 wins a year regularly is unrealistic though.

I can agree with that, however their is definitely a large % of posters on this site that is willing to accept mediocrity, and will go irrational lengths to defend any criticism of the program.  That in some way contributes to the overly negative posts by others.  This site seems to have some of the most bi-polar posts. 

[Atlhogfan1]

I can agree with that, however their is definitely a large % of posters on this site that is willing to accept mediocrity, and will go irrational lengths to defend any criticism of the program.  That in some way contributes to the overly negative posts by others.  This site seems to have some of the most bi-polar posts.

East made an idiotic post in another attempt to whine.

The perspective is in the current world of recruiting rankings, rules and setup of college football, Arkansas finishing behind most of the SEC IN RECRUITING RANKINGS is not just understandable but expected.  Had nothing to do with how good we are or a statement about how good our recruiting isn't.  To suggest it isn't is stupid in relation to rankings as we outrecruit 80% of college football in the recruiting rankings. 

This perspective kills me.  "We're not very good, so why should our recruiting be any better than not very good as well?  Why would anyone want to come here?"

The acceptance of mediocrity within both our administration and our fan base is now almost complete.  Once the old timers die off everyone will be ecstatic with "winning seasons" and merely making the NCAA basketball tournament.

[Hogwild]

East may an idiotic post in another attempt to whine.

The perspective is in the current world of recruiting rankings, rules and setup of college football, Arkansas finishing behind most of the SEC IN RECRUITING RANKINGS is not just understandable but expected.  Had nothing to do with how good we are or a statement about how good our recruiting isn't.  To suggest it isn't is stupid in relation to rankings as we outrecruit 80% of college football in the recruiting rankings.

I understand that, but we don't play 80% college football, we play the SEC teams, and there are 10 teams ahead of us and only 3 behind us.  If that trend continues we won't finish ahead of 80% of the teams in the SEC standing in the coming fall seasons.

[Atlhogfan1]

I understand that, but we don't play 80% college football, we play the SEC teams, and there are 10 teams ahead of us and only 3 behind us.  If that trend continues we won't finish ahead of 80% of the teams in the SEC standing in the coming fall seasons.

That is the point.  Why did you jump on East's post if you understand? 

I only counted 8 in the OP with SC and Mizzou missing. 

Football recruiting including rankings is about location/proximity.  Proximity to African American population especially in the South (Va around to Texas), Ohio/Mich and the East Coast up through NJ and in California.  Most of our SEC competition are much closer (actually right the Frank in the middle of it) than we are.  The one who isn't- Mizzou.  Vandy is Vandy.  So not finishing in the top 8 in the SEC is no surprise.  The surprise will be if we were to finish much higher than that.  Look for the NCAA to coming snooping if we do it more than once. 

[Hogwild]

That is the point.  Why did you jump on East's post if you understand? 

I only counted 8 in the OP with SC and Mizzou missing. 

Two reasons, the first I think East is correct to many people in the administration and fans are comfortable with below average results, second 24/7 has us 11th and I also agree with the posters on the first page that 24/7 is the better site to look at.


With Texas recruiting open more than ever, we failed to take advantage. Not having a single commit, much less 3 or 4  from Texas top 50 is disappointing.

Every year around signing day whichever service has us ranked the highest is "the best one."


Only to the uneducated.  Most of us prefer 247 because of the Composite and the fact that they have the largest and most experienced group of evaluators.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

Two reasons, the first I think East is correct to many people in the administration and fans are comfortable with below average results, second 24/7 has us 11th and I also agree with the posters on the first page that 24/7 is the better site to look at.


With Texas recruiting open more than ever, we failed to take advantage. Not having a single commit, much less 3 or 4  from Texas top 50 is disappointing.

How is Texas recruiting open more than ever?  And speaking of below average results, JFB was comfortable with that as well during his AD tenure.

[EastexHawg]

To suggest it isn't is stupid in relation to rankings as we outrecruit 80% of college football in the recruiting rankings. 

SMU is located in Dallas.  Rice is located in Houston.  Tulane is in New Orleans.  UCF is in Orlando and USF is in Tampa.  San Diego is in...well, San Diego.  Would you expect any of those programs, despite their locations, to recruit better than an SEC program such as Arkansas?

Let's cut the disingenuous "recruit better than 80%" crap.  Being part of an SEC program is an advantage for any recruiter. 

As for what our administration accepts, if they didn't accept 25-26 overall and 10-22 in conference we would have a new coaching staff instead of agreeing that Bielema has at least two more years.  If most fans didn't feel the same way, almost every "negative" post on this board wouldn't begin with the disclaimer "I'm not saying I want to see BB gone."

There is no need to explain WHY so many are willing to accept the current state of the program.  I already incorporated the built-in excuses into my original post.  If you are offering reasons, excuses, and a rationale why the current state of the program should be expected you're really only explaining why you accept what is going on.

[Pork Twain]

I can agree with that, however their is definitely a large % of posters on this site that is willing to accept mediocrity, and will go irrational lengths to defend any criticism of the program.  That in some way contributes to the overly negative posts by others.  This site seems to have some of the most bi-polar posts. 

I am misunderstood in this area at times.  Just because I am realistic with how we stack up with most of the SEC, does not mean that I will be happy with 7 win seasons.  It does mean that I recognize Arkansas will always have an uphill battle in the SEC for numerous reasons and for that reason I will tolerate the bad and celebrate the good.

[Hogwild]

How is Texas recruiting open more than ever?  And speaking of below average results, JFB was comfortable with that as well during his AD tenure.

ESPN article

Take a glance at the list of the top 2017 recruits in Texas and you'll notice a pattern.

Ohio State earned commitments from three players in the state's top 10. LSU has two. Notre Dame and Stanford each have one.

Texas? None. Texas A&M? Zero.

TCU, where ESPN 300 receiver Jalen Reagor is committed, is the only Texas school that currently has a commitment from one of the state's 10 best. The rest are nowhere to be found.

Top players are fleeing Texas in this class more than any other in recent memory.

CBS Sports article

The story in Texas isn't about who owned the state, but instead who didn't.

Looking at the Top 25 of the state rankings, it takes eight names to reach the first in-state commit (Anthony Hines, Texas A&M), 20 names to reach the first Longhorn commit (Sam Ehlinger) and there are only five players in the Top 25 actually committed to an in-state school.

Note: Two top-five players in the state, Marvin Wilson (LSU has the Crystal Ball lead) and K'Lavon Chaisson (Texas is leading) remain uncommitted.

A state that was almost exclusively used to fuel Texas' 2005 national title team (only seven members of that roster hailed from outside the Lone Star State) is being picked at by programs around the country.

No school's done that better than Ohio State, which owns commitments from three of the state's Top 6 players. The Buckeyes, tied with Texas and Oklahoma for the most pledges in the state's Top 25, are also in the mix for Texas' top overall player, Marvin Wilson.

Oklahoma, with the nation's No. 7 class, also pulled strongly from Texas this cycle with nine total commitments.

Now about the state's normal players ... Texas A&M, Texas Tech and TCU hold just one prospect each among the state's Top 25. Baylor, with a new staff and reeling from a sexual assault scandal, has none. Texas, coming off a 5-7 season and with a new coach at the helm, owns just three.

That's a serious departure from years past. Five years ago only three members of the Top 25 left the state. Even three years ago, right after Texas switched coaches, only nine players in the state's Top 25 left the Lone Star State.

Texas A&M still has a Top 10 class and Texas will likely finish in the Top 20, but those programs are hemorrhaging talent from their home state because of their recent struggles.

The Lone Star State will always produce championship-winning talent.

Right now, it's just not staying home.

Distribution of Texas' Top 25 Prospects

Three: Ohio State, Oklahoma, Texas
Two: Stanford, LSU
One: Texas A&M, Notre Dame, Texas Tech, Alabama, TCU, Michigan, Oklahoma State, Arizona State

[Pork Twain]

SMU is located in Dallas.  Rice is located in Houston.  Tulane is in New Orleans.  UCF is in Orlando and USF is in Tampa.  San Diego is in...well, San Diego.  Would you expect any of those programs, despite their locations, to recruit better than an SEC program such as Arkansas?

Let's cut the disingenuous "recruit better than 80%" crap.  Being part of an SEC program is an advantage for any recruiter. 

As for what our administration accepts, if they didn't accept 25-26 overall and 10-22 in conference we would have a new coaching staff instead of agreeing that Bielema has at least two more years.  If most fans didn't feel the same way, almost every "negative" post on this board wouldn't begin with the disclaimer "I'm not saying I want to see BB gone."

There is no need to explain WHY so many are willing to accept the current state of the program.  I already incorporated the built-in excuses into my original post.  If you are offering reasons, excuses, and a rationale why the current state of the program should be expected you're really only explaining why you accept what is going on.

I believe you live in a fantasy land

[Bubba's Bruisers]

ESPN article
CBS Sports article

We're about to get Calloway, which will make us even with most the programs on that list.

[Deep Shoat]

SMU is located in Dallas.  Rice is located in Houston.  Tulane is in New Orleans.  UCF is in Orlando and USF is in Tampa.  San Diego is in...well, San Diego.  Would you expect any of those programs, despite their locations, to recruit better than an SEC program such as Arkansas?

Let's cut the disingenuous "recruit better than 80%" crap.  Being part of an SEC program is an advantage for any recruiter. 

As for what our administration accepts, if they didn't accept 25-26 overall and 10-22 in conference we would have a new coaching staff instead of agreeing that Bielema has at least two more years.  If most fans didn't feel the same way, almost every "negative" post on this board wouldn't begin with the disclaimer "I'm not saying I want to see BB gone."

There is no need to explain WHY so many are willing to accept the current state of the program.  I already incorporated the built-in excuses into my original post.  If you are offering reasons, excuses, and a rationale why the current state of the program should be expected you're really only explaining why you accept what is going on.

You are either the stupidest smart guy or the smartest stupid guy on the board.  I'm not sure which. 

You post these long, literate posts that are easy to read and understand.  But you don't understand the first damn thing about what you are posting about.

It isn't about "being willing to accept" anything.  It's about recognizing the reality of our situation.  We are on the 4th HC since they started tracking recruiting rankings.  And all of them have been essentially the same.  More swing to Nutt's results, less retention with Petrino, 1 year with Smith.  But all of them have averaged 25-30 ish ranking.  That means something.  Add that to the well known data about recruits tending to go to school within 200-250 miles of their home town, and it becomes clear that this is who Arkansas is.  No matter who the coach is.  No matter who is recruiting.

Changing that will require something catalyzing.  We win a lot, consistently, for 5-10 years.  We bring in the perfect recruiter.  We start throwing around money and cars.  Everything south of Fayetteville falls into the Gulf of Mexico and we get some beaches.  SOMETHING.  Something huge, something unique.

No one is saying it's impossible.  Just that it is HARD and it will take TIME.

So stop being a dick and use your brain for something besides concocting another argument.

[hobhog]

SMU is located in Dallas.  Rice is located in Houston.  Tulane is in New Orleans.  UCF is in Orlando and USF is in Tampa.  San Diego is in...well, San Diego.  Would you expect any of those programs, despite their locations, to recruit better than an SEC program such as Arkansas?

Let's cut the disingenuous "recruit better than 80%" crap.  Being part of an SEC program is an advantage for any recruiter. 

As for what our administration accepts, if they didn't accept 25-26 overall and 10-22 in conference we would have a new coaching staff instead of agreeing that Bielema has at least two more years.  If most fans didn't feel the same way, almost every "negative" post on this board wouldn't begin with the disclaimer "I'm not saying I want to see BB gone."

There is no need to explain WHY so many are willing to accept the current state of the program.  I already incorporated the built-in excuses into my original post.  If you are offering reasons, excuses, and a rationale why the current state of the program should be expected you're really only explaining why you accept what is going on.

So you would have fired B after this year, huh. Wow. His seat may be a little warm and needs to have a good season next year, but firing him this year would be beyond crazy. Typical over reaction that ADs are paid NOT to make.

[EastexHawg]

It isn't about "being willing to accept" anything.  It's about recognizing the reality of our situation. 

Since you are such an expert on "smart guys", I wonder if you can see what you just did there.

[Biggus Piggus]

We still need to improve to get better.

I love this quote.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

I love this quote.

It's kind of like...we need to win a lot more, then recruiting will pick up.

[Atlhogfan1]

SMU is located in Dallas.  Rice is located in Houston.  Tulane is in New Orleans.  UCF is in Orlando and USF is in Tampa.  San Diego is in...well, San Diego.  Would you expect any of those programs, despite their locations, to recruit better than an SEC program such as Arkansas?

Let's cut the disingenuous "recruit better than 80%" crap.  Being part of an SEC program is an advantage for any recruiter. 

As for what our administration accepts, if they didn't accept 25-26 overall and 10-22 in conference we would have a new coaching staff instead of agreeing that Bielema has at least two more years.  If most fans didn't feel the same way, almost every "negative" post on this board wouldn't begin with the disclaimer "I'm not saying I want to see BB gone."

There is no need to explain WHY so many are willing to accept the current state of the program.  I already incorporated the built-in excuses into my original post.  If you are offering reasons, excuses, and a rationale why the current state of the program should be expected you're really only explaining why you accept what is going on.

What does this have to do with recruiting rankings?

The next staff will have similar rankings.  Or worse.  It isn't the program.  It is the one thing we cannot fix. 

[NotSoFastMyFriend]

Wow. The piss got hot quick!

[Bubba's Bruisers]

Wow. The piss got hot quick!

Eastex brings it out in us all.  Fun poster, though.  I think he's still seething about Dez dropping that pass in the NFCGC a couple years ago. 

[Michael D Huff AIA]

It's kind of like...we need to win a lot more, then recruiting will pick up.

Having a year where we overachieve would help matters instead of underachieving.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

It's kind of like...we need to win a lot more, then recruiting will pick up.

We say that, but I wonder just how much it would pick up? We generally hover around the #25 rank. Sometimes a little better, sometimes worse but I think we average somewhere around there.

Now look at Baylor and all the success that they had under Briles and I'll grant you that they rose up out of the 30's and 40's, but they never did much better than 25 or 26...that area.

Obviously they utilize a different system and play a different schedule, but winning as much as they did, why didn't great enough talent flock to them in droves so as to take them into the 13-20 range anyway? 4 of their 5 seasons from 2011-2015 were double digit win seasons. Looks like that might have had more impact?

[Bubba's Bruisers]

Having a year where we overachieve would help matters instead of underachieving.

It really doesn't help that much.  Doesn't hurt, of course, but doesn't really help that much.  We've seen it too many times.  Have to find a way to be more than a flash in the pan.

[hogsanity]

We say that, but I wonder just how much it would pick up? We generally hover around the #25 rank. Sometimes a little better, sometimes worse but I think we average somewhere around there.

Now look at Baylor and all the success that they had under Briles and I'll grant you that they rose up out of the 30's and 40's, but they never did much better than 25 or 26...that area.

Obviously they utilize a different system and play a different schedule, but winning as much as they did, why didn't great enough talent flock to them in droves so as to take them into the 13-20 range anyway? 4 of their 5 seasons from 2011-2015 were double digit win seasons. Looks like that might have had more impact?

we have heard this " win and they will come " garbage for years. Went 21-5 with a bcs bowl appearance and the two classes in that frame were mid 20's or worse.

[Hogwild]

We're about to get Calloway, which will make us even with most the programs on that list.

We need to recruit Texas more than those other out of state programs. We can't just hope to be even with them in Texas, because they are going to dominate us in other areas.

Overall Rankings Bama #1, Ohio State #2, LSU #6, Stanford #11, Notre Dame #12, Michigan #4, OU #7, AZ St #23, Ok State #35.  We are ranked #29. 

[Bubba's Bruisers]

We say that, but I wonder just how much it would pick up? We generally hover around the #25 rank. Sometimes a little better, sometimes worse but I think we average somewhere around there.

Now look at Baylor and all the success that they had under Briles and I'll grant you that they rose up out of the 30's and 40's, but they never did much better than 25 or 26...that area.

Obviously they utilize a different system and play a different schedule, but winning as much as they did, why didn't great enough talent flock to them in droves so as to take them into the 13-20 range anyway? 4 of their 5 seasons from 2011-2015 were double digit win seasons. Looks like that might have had more impact?

Baylor is in Texas and an exception.

we have heard this " win and they will come " garbage for years. Went 21-5 with a bcs bowl appearance and the two classes in that frame were mid 20's or worse.

It's never worked for us, but we continue to throw it out there. 

[Atlhogfan1]

Two reasons, the first I think East is correct to many people in the administration and fans are comfortable with below average results, second 24/7 has us 11th and I also agree with the posters on the first page that 24/7 is the better site to look at.


With Texas recruiting open more than ever, we failed to take advantage. Not having a single commit, much less 3 or 4  from Texas top 50 is disappointing.

What is average for Arkansas football?  Have to define it.

This past season was unacceptable. 

Ok use 24/7.  As I said earlier, I hadn't bothered looking at any of the sites.  24/7 does have a better reputation now as far as staff numbers to actually check out recruits.  Probably why they have about 10,000 3 star players.  They have us one spot lower at 11th with Miss St also placed above us, barely, out of the SEC.  Out of the 10 teams ahead, you could make a case for Miss St and UK should not outrecruit us.  They essentially don't according to 24/7 but their math puts them slightly ahead.  But if you want to whine they shouldn't be on our level, ok.  It is location + for Miss St the added help of OM's situation. 


You, and others, expect Arkansas to compete in these rankings with other SEC programs when the state produced 2 4 star products this class with one not being close to eligible. 

Just go out of state and get them, right?  Go into Texas and beat out OU, Bama, LSU, Oh St, Texas, A&M and some other in state programs.  Because it is wide open, right?

[EastexHawg]

Eastex brings it out in us all.  Fun poster, though.  I think he's still seething about Dez dropping that pass in the NFCGC a couple years ago. 

The man has the situational awareness of a coffee table.  Remember the last second, game winning "catch" against the Giants a few years ago?  The Cowboys would have won the game but Dez extended his hand to break his fall in the back of the end zone, touching the end line with his fingertips and losing both the catch and the game in the process.  He's wearing a helmet and pads and falling from a distance of four feet.  Why does he need to break his fall?

Bless Dez's heart.  He's big, strong, and fast, but he doesn't have enough brains to grease a gimlet.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

we have heard this " win and they will come " garbage for years. Went 21-5 with a bcs bowl appearance and the two classes in that frame were mid 20's or worse.

You could make an argument for that for Alabama after Saban arrived. But our recruiting sometimes looks a lot like Alabama 2002-2006, 1-5 star, 13-4 stars, 45-3 stars, prior to Saban.

Now Bielema has certainly improved on signing 4 stars and we have a lot more 3 stars as well, so his numbers look pretty good when you look at 1-5 star, 25 4-stars and 92 3-stars from 2012-2016.

But then you get sober pretty quick by looking at Saban's number over that same time period. 24-5 stars, 68-4 stars and 34-3 stars.

We have the "SEC Rep" thing going for us so if we win a lot more games on a consistent basis we may very well see a lot more talent flocking to us. But we are going to have to do it consistently and not a double digit win season every 5 to 6 years.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

You could make an argument for that for Alabama after Saban arrived. But our recruiting sometimes looks a lot like Alabama 2002-2006, 1-5 star, 13-4 stars, 45-3 stars, prior to Saban.

Now Bielema has certainly improved on signing 4 stars and we have a lot more 3 stars as well, so his numbers look pretty good when you look at 1-5 star, 25 4-stars and 92 3-stars from 2012-2016.

But then you get sober pretty quick by looking at Saban's number over that same time period. 24-5 stars, 68-4 stars and 34-3 stars.

We have the "SEC Rep" thing going for us so if we win a lot more games on a consistent basis we may very well see a lot more talent flocking to us. But we are going to have to do it consistently and not a double digit win season every 5 to 6 years.

Has BB really measurably improved 4 stars?  I admittedly have just looked at rivals to stay consistent, but I haven't seen significant evidence of this.  Recruiting looks the same...we get 4 or 5 blue chip type recruits each year. then a handful at the next level down of guys who are SEC caliber after some development, then the rest are marginal. 

The only real change has been the retention rate.

[Hogwild]

Just go out of state and get them, right?  Go into Texas and beat out OU, Bama, LSU, Oh St, Texas, A&M and some other in state programs.  Because it is wide open, right?

Ok lets say we can't compete against those schools for Texas recruits, but we only have one recruit committed from the state.  And his only in state offer was from Texas State.   

We should be able to land more players in the Texas Top 50, than Stanford, Arizona State, Colorado, Oklahoma Lite, and freaking Northwestern. 

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Has BB really measurably improved 4 stars?  I admittedly have just looked at rivals to stay consistent, but I haven't seen significant evidence of this.  Recruiting looks the same...we get 4 or 5 blue chip type recruits each year. then a handful at the next level down of guys who are SEC caliber after some development, then the rest are marginal. 

The only real change has been the retention rate.

Go to 247 and check the number of 5, 4 and 3 stars signed by 5 year blocks of time from 2002 through 2016.

2002-2006: 13 4-Stars
2007-2011: 18 4-Stars
2012-2016: 25 4-Stars

He hasn't doubled the number of 4 stars, but he is doing better.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

Go to 247 and check the number of 5, 4 and 3 stars signed by 5 year blocks of time from 2002 through 2016.

2002-2006: 13 4-Stars
2007-2011: 18 4-Stars
2012-2016: 25 4-Stars

He hasn't doubled the number of 4 stars, but he is doing better.

Yes, better, but why does he get credit for 2012?  Of course, may not matter in the grand scheme of things, but may be more accurate to look in blocks of 4 years.

Any who, I generally pay attention to offer sheets.  Don't see any real measurable difference vs. say BP.  I see the difference in retention.  And if there is a measureable difference, then coaching may be lacking.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Yes, better, but why does he get credit for 2012?  Of course, may not matter in the grand scheme of things, but may be more accurate to look in blocks of 4 years.

Any who, I generally pay attention to offer sheets.  Don't see any real measurable difference vs. say BP.  I see the difference in retention.  And if there is a measureable difference, then coaching may be lacking.

I didn't use 4 year periods because they don't produce even amounts of time when you are referencing 15 years.

But ok, I'll play. 2007-2012 = 22 4-stars. 22 divided by 6 is 3.7 per year.

2013-2016 = 21 4 stars. 21 divided by 5 is 4.4 per year.

So, still an increase.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

I didn't use 4 year periods because they don't produce even amounts of time when you are referencing 15 years.

But ok, I'll play. 2007-2012 = 22 4-stars. 22 divided by 6 is 3.7 per year.

2013-2016 = 21 4 stars. 21 divided by 5 is 4.4 per year.

So, still an increase.

Yes, increase, but as I said, not significant...less 1 per year.  Again, the real difference is retention.  Actually keeping those top players in the program.  It makes a measurable difference.  Now, with all this extra talent hanging around, need to find a way to actually win more. 

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Yes, increase, but as I said, not significant...less 1 per year.  Again, the real difference is retention.  Actually keeping those top players in the program.  It makes a measurable difference.  Now, with all this extra talent hanging around, need to find a way to actually win more. 

That's the hope, but the players that are "hanging around" tend to be a better quality of athlete than what we have had before. Of course, as I have documented, Alabama's talent has increased at higher leaps and bounds than ours have over the same period of time...a much greater growth rate in rated talent. That's the problem, there isn't just an arms race in facilities, it's in talent as well which is why Alabama tends to have such great separation from everyone else in the SEC most of the time. They have been winning pretty big time since 2008...like 9 years. That's sustained growth and winning that helps draw the best players from around the country.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

That's the hope, but the players that are "hanging around" tend to be a better quality of athlete than what we have had before. Of course, as I have documented, Alabama's talent has increased at higher leaps and bounds than ours have over the same period of time...a much greater growth rate in rated talent. That's the problem, there isn't just an arms race in facilities, it's in talent as well which is why Alabama tends to have such great separation from everyone else in the SEC most of the time. They have been winning pretty big time since 2008...like 9 years. That's sustained growth and winning that helps draw the best players from around the country.

Yep, Bama  is arguably the most storied program in history residing in the most fertile recruiting ground in the world.  And they have the Bill Belichick of college football in Saban.  And programs like LSU, TOSU, Clemson, FSU and soon to be Michigan are all very comparable.  We aren't close.  For reasons we all know well.

[12247]

In general terms, if we were in the B12, our current class would be 2nd in conference, in the B10-, fifth to sixth, Pac 12, 5th and ACC, 4th.  We've placed ourselves in the most difficult place to get better because we are directly facing better teams located in better recruiting beds. 

I often wonder why we cannot recruit even close to OU.  About the only thing they have that we don't is reputation over time.  There location is not superior to ours in my opinion.  Their facilities overall is not better than ours.  They do have far superior coaching in my opinion.  But do they have a system that is 20 recruiting ranking spots better than ours.  They must have cause they usually beat us about that much.  But what is it?

[LZH]

What is average for Arkansas football?  Have to define it.

This past season was unacceptable. 

Ok use 24/7.  As I said earlier, I hadn't bothered looking at any of the sites.  24/7 does have a better reputation now as far as staff numbers to actually check out recruits.  Probably why they have about 10,000 3 star players.  They have us one spot lower at 11th with Miss St also placed above us, barely, out of the SEC.  Out of the 10 teams ahead, you could make a case for Miss St and UK should not outrecruit us.  They essentially don't according to 24/7 but their math puts them slightly ahead.  But if you want to whine they shouldn't be on our level, ok.  It is location + for Miss St the added help of OM's situation. 


You, and others, expect Arkansas to compete in these rankings with other SEC programs when the state produced 2 4 star products this class with one not being close to eligible. 

Just go out of state and get them, right?  Go into Texas and beat out OU, Bama, LSU, Oh St, Texas, A&M and some other in state programs.  Because it is wide open, right?

Urban Meyer seems to be doing pretty well out of state, specifically in one state that should be considered one of our more fertile recruiting areas. Tom Osborne recruited nationally to Lincoln, Nebraska. Lincoln freakin Nebraska. OU wouldn't be OU without Texas recruits, specifically the DFW area. Oregon taps California for most of their talent. 25+ years ago ol' Bill McCartney won a national championship at Colorado, and even though I don't know where those better players came from I highly doubt many of them were from Colorado.

Point is, some schools recruit well out of state because they have to. We are one of those schools. I have often wondered why one of the assistant coaching positions isn't basically reserved for an ace recruiter, even though he may be a below average position coach. Who gives a darn if he can coach or not? Let the other assistants take up the slack.

Btw, I have no idea how many kids we offered from the state of Texas these past few years, but we need to be hitting Texas hard.

[goodguytex]

Urban Meyer seems to be doing pretty well out of state, specifically in one state that should be considered one of our more fertile recruiting areas. Tom Osborne recruited nationally to Lincoln, Nebraska. Lincoln freakin Nebraska. OU wouldn't be OU without Texas recruits, specifically the DFW area. Oregon taps California for most of their talent. 25+ years ago ol' Bill McCartney won a national championship at Colorado, and even though I don't know where those better players came from I highly doubt many of them were from Colorado.

Point is, some schools recruit well out of state because they have to. We are one of those schools. I have often wondered why one of the assistant coaching positions isn't basically reserved for an ace recruiter, even though he may be a below average position coach. Who gives a darn if he can coach or not? Let the other assistants take up the slack.

Btw, I have no idea how many kids we offered from the state of Texas these past few years, but we need to be hitting Texas hard.

Great point! Texas and Louisiana we can get a lot of great players. The program is well known. There have been some efforts by bielema to step it up some. Just not enough.

[BroyledNutts]

Maybe Coach Bielema wants to turn us into the SEC's version of Kansas State.

Coach Beilema worked for Coach Snyder and considers him one of his mentors, (you knew that ) so yeah, he's probably emulating Snyder's philosophies regarding JUCOs.