Anderson's quote on Kingsley.......

[hogsanity]

There's probably some truth in here.  On the flip side, I bet there are many on here who would like to see MK leave early only to make it harder for Mike to make the tourney and thus be fired. 

I actually think they have just as good of a chance to make the tourney without Mk as with him, but I do not think it is a sure thing in either case.

[WMHawgfan]

Things have changed over the years. With the growing market for basketball overseas it is no longer a huge risk to leave early. Even if MK doesn't get drafted he can go overseas and get a decent contract and work on his skills to get to the NBA against better competition than he will face in college.

I want him to stay but it is for selfish reasons. Without him our chances of getting back to the tourney next year diminish significantly in my opinion. If he does leave though I can't blame him and I certainly can't say he is making a bad decision.

[jry04]

Things have changed over the years. With the growing market for basketball overseas it is no longer a huge risk to leave early. Even if MK doesn't get drafted he can go overseas and get a decent contract and work on his skills to get to the NBA against better competition than he will face in college.

I want him to stay but it is for selfish reasons. Without him our chances of getting back to the tourney next year diminish significantly in my opinion. If he does leave though I can't blame him and I certainly can't say he is making a bad decision.

Except he probably would not face better competition over seas. He will face more potential NBA big men next year at Arkansas than he would in Europe. He would be able to work on his game without any restrictions, but coaching and competition in Europe for the most part is not as good as a top 25 college basketball team. There is a reason why mediocre college players go over to Europe and become stars.

[Hawg Red]

Things have changed over the years. With the growing market for basketball overseas it is no longer a huge risk to leave early. Even if MK doesn't get drafted he can go overseas and get a decent contract and work on his skills to get to the NBA against better competition than he will face in college.

I want him to stay but it is for selfish reasons. Without him our chances of getting back to the tourney next year diminish significantly in my opinion. If he does leave though I can't blame him and I certainly can't say he is making a bad decision.

Possible, but not statistically likely. Rookies overseas can get buried on the bench because many international teams/leagues value seniority. It all depends. If he's in a league that doesn't value seniority, he's likely in a league with next to no competition for him so it's unlikely he's going to really get any better or be challenged. That speaks to your point about facing better competition than in college. Again, possible but not too likely when you factor in the reason I just mentioned. Patrick Beverley is always going to stand out in the minds of Hog fans, but he's very much a rare exception. The better path for a college player is through the D-League, but he's not going to crack 30k there. It's strictly an opportunity play in D-League.

[Hawg Red]

Except he probably would not face better competition over seas. He will face more potential NBA big men next year at Arkansas than he would in Europe. He would be able to work on his game without any restrictions, but coaching and competition in Europe for the most part is not as good as a top 25 college basketball team. There is a reason why mediocre college players go over to Europe and become stars.

And next to impossible for a rookie to crack the rotation of the elite Euroleague teams.

[sadhogfan]

Things have changed over the years. With the growing market for basketball overseas it is no longer a huge risk to leave early. Even if MK doesn't get drafted he can go overseas and get a decent contract and work on his skills to get to the NBA against better competition than he will face in college.

By the same reasoning, there's no risk to come back either. He doesn't have to worry about not turning pro at the right time, or getting injured after coming back: Europe will always be there for him.

[HamSammich]

in todays ADG "Anderson told reporters after the teams banquet he expected Kingsley to declare for the draft".

Not good.

wow..... its not quite a dumpster fire but there is a lot of wood and couches in the bin ready to be lit.

[rzrbackramsfan]

I actually think they have just as good of a chance to make the tourney without Mk as with him, but I do not think it is a sure thing in either case.

An how would that be lol

[azhog10]

An how would that be lol

Hes just setting the stage to later say that he always believed we had the talent to make the tourney without MK but CMA wasn't a good enough coach to get them there.

Regardless of who dresses for the hogs next year I'd imagine it's NCAAT or bust for CMA.

[hawginbigd1]

Mic Drop for Hawg Red

Ditto, on that MK is a pretty good 4/5 in a weaker D1 conference, against a decent big man he pretty much gets not much, and what he does get is not on post moves, defensively he has some upside, but is not a good defender. His pro potential IMO is across the pond somewhere.

If he wants to be a BP, he has to figure out a way to extend his range, and improve his ability to change direction, and improve handle.

[hogsanity]

An how would that be lol

If the juco guys coming in assimilate into Mike's style quickly, then he would be able to run much more pressing than he did last year, and would not have to back off to protect MK from foul troubles. Yes, the inside presence would be down a little, but Hannahs is back, so the only real loss of production at guard is Bell, and the new comers would cover for that. 

Hes just setting the stage to later say that he always believed we had the talent to make the tourney without MK but CMA wasn't a good enough coach to get them there.

Regardless of who dresses for the hogs next year I'd imagine it's NCAAT or bust for CMA.

I was pretty clear, I am not sure they have the talent to get to the NCAAT with MK, much less without him. Most of it depends on the recruiting class actually getting here, and how quickly they pick up what Mike wants to do. We saw with Durham the difference between his JR and Sr seasons.

[jry04]

I wish people would stop with the comparisons between Durham, Waithe, Johnson, etc to the JUCO players we have coming in. Those guys were barely top 20 JUCO players, and 2-3* recruits with very few offers. None of those guys were top 5 JUCO players. Barford had offers from Louisville, Cincy, Florida, Iowa State, Texas, and Xavier to name a few. Xavier, UL, and Iowa St were top 15 teams this last season. Those are some big time programs that offered him. Very few of our previous JC players were even close to having those offers. Cook had offers from Iowa State, Memphis, Kansas State,  and Texas to name a few.

We got Jabril over Auburn and OK State and he was barely a top 20 JC. Delvon was ranked similarly, and only had an offer from TCU. Our JUCO players may not pan out, but trying to project how they will do based on how our previous ones did is not a great idea. Weems is probably the most recent comparison. #1 JC and offers from Baylor, OK St, OK, Tennessee, Memphis (when Cal was there) to name a few. Came in right away and averaged 11 pts 5 reb per game on a team that had Patrick Beverley, a jr Charles Thomas, Steven Hill, and Darian Towns. He was the 3rd or 4th option on that team and still put up 11 and 5. Barford will be option #1 or #2 depending on Moses' decision. In the last 5-6 years of JUCO recruits 2 or 3 of the top 5 from each class have had immediate impacts on their team. We have 3 of the top 5, so we have a pretty good chance to get one of those instant impact guys that comes from each JUCO class.

[Hawg Red]

I wish people would stop with the comparisons between Durham, Waithe, Johnson, etc to the JUCO players we have coming in. Those guys were barely top 20 JUCO players, and 2-3* recruits with very few offers. None of those guys were top 5 JUCO players. Barford had offers from Louisville, Cincy, Florida, Iowa State, Texas, and Xavier to name a few. Xavier, UL, and Iowa St were top 15 teams this last season. Those are some big time programs that offered him. Very few of our previous JC players were even close to having those offers. Cook had offers from Iowa State, Memphis, Kansas State,  and Texas to name a few.

We got Jabril over Auburn and OK State and he was barely a top 20 JC. Delvon was ranked similarly, and only had an offer from TCU. Our JUCO players may not pan out, but trying to project how they will do based on how our previous ones did is not a great idea. Weems is probably the most recent comparison. #1 JC and offers from Baylor, OK St, OK, Tennessee, Memphis (when Cal was there) to name a few. Came in right away and averaged 11 pts 5 reb per game on a team that had Patrick Beverley, a jr Charles Thomas, Steven Hill, and Darian Towns. He was the 3rd or 4th option on that team and still put up 11 and 5. Barford will be option #1 or #2 depending on Moses' decision. In the last 5-6 years of JUCO recruits 2 or 3 of the top 5 from each class have had immediate impacts on their team. We have 3 of the top 5, so we have a pretty good chance to get one of those instant impact guys that comes from each JUCO class.

Actually, Marvell Waithe was a top 5 JUCO (at least according to Rivals).

https://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/recruiting/rankings/rank-2526

But I do agree with your overall point.

[jry04]

Actually, Marvell Waithe was a top 5 JUCO (at least according to Rivals).

https://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/recruiting/rankings/rank-2526

But I do agree with your overall point.

With an offer from Arkansas and Rutgers. Waithe had the ranking, but he didn't have the offers. The others had neither. Also, his class was extremely weak in the juco rankings. Waithe was #4 and a 3* recruit, with only a couple in the top 10 signing with a good basketball program. The top 8 in the current JUCO class, depending on which service you look at, are all 4 stars with some major offers. This is considered one of the deepest JC classes in a while.

I am a big fan of offers. I feel that is more of an indication of how much potential a player has, which is why I point out our current JUCO offers compared to previous. That isn't always the case, though. Sometimes players like Portis and Macon have few offers because everyone knows they are going to Arkansas. Maybe they are a grade risk, etc. However, if you have a guy who is going to qualify and has offers from small schools or bad major programs, they probably aren't as good as their ranking. In Waithe's case, he wasn't very good. When you have players who are getting offers from Marshall, Pitino, Mack, Cronin, etc then he is probably a pretty good player because those guys have eyes for talent and can identify a good player when they see one. You can combine Durham, Waithe, and Johnson's offer list and it wouldn't come close to the offer list Barford has, and probably wouldn't be as good as Cook's, either.

[Hawg Red]

With an offer from Arkansas and Rutgers. Waithe had the ranking, but he didn't have the offers. The others had neither. Also, his class was extremely weak in the juco rankings. Waithe was #4 and a 3* recruit, with only a couple in the top 10 signing with a good basketball program. The top 8 in the current JUCO class, depending on which service you look at, are all 4 stars with some major offers. This is considered one of the deepest JC classes in a while.

I am a big fan of offers. I feel that is more of an indication of how much potential a player has, which is why I point out our current JUCO offers compared to previous. That isn't always the case, though. Sometimes players like Portis and Macon have few offers because everyone knows they are going to Arkansas. Maybe they are a grade risk, etc. However, if you have a guy who is going to qualify and has offers from small schools or bad major programs, they probably aren't as good as their ranking. In Waithe's case, he wasn't very good. When you have players who are getting offers from Marshall, Pitino, Mack, Cronin, etc then he is probably a pretty good player because those guys have eyes for talent and can identify a good player when they see one. You can combine Durham, Waithe, and Johnson's offer list and it wouldn't come close to the offer list Barford has, and probably wouldn't be as good as Cook's, either.

No disagreement. Just pointing out that he was a top 5 JUCO recruit. I wouldn't dare argue that Waithe was good.

[jry04]

No disagreement. Just pointing out that he was a top 5 JUCO recruit. I wouldn't dare argue that Waithe was good.

I know. Just elaborating more on my opinion. Some people are into the overall rankings, and that is fine. I love hearing we have two of the top 3 JUCOs, but I get more excited knowing we signed them over teams like Iowa State, Xavier, and Louisville. If those 3 want them, then we definitely should because they have proven programs. Louisville and ISU like to run up tempo styles, so getting a couple players with offers from them means they are a good fit in our system.

[Pork Twain]

So this is no longer a thread about Kingsley?

[jry04]

So this is no longer a thread about Kingsley?

What more is there to say? There are 100+ posts about him in this forum. He will either go pro or he won't. Some think he should, and some think he shouldn't. His game has been discussed for the last 2 months by the regulars on here. At this point there isn't much more to talk about until we find out if he even gets an invite to the combine.

[Pork Twain]

What more is there to say? There are 100+ posts about him in this forum. He will either go pro or he won't. Some think he should, and some think he shouldn't. His game has been discussed for the last 2 months by the regulars on here. At this point there isn't much more to talk about until we find out if he even gets an invite to the combine.

In that case, good call switching to a lightly discussed topic, MA and recruiting.

[jry04]

In that case, good call switching to a lightly discussed topic, MA and recruiting.

I just never understood people who get on message boards and moan and groan about threads going slightly off topic. Since you are so concerned, add something of worth to the Kingsley discussion. Go ahead and get us back on topic with something that hasn't been discussed.

[Pork Twain]

I just never understood people who get on message boards and moan and groan about threads going slightly off topic. Since you are so concerned, add something of worth to the Kingsley discussion. Go ahead and get us back on topic with something that hasn't been discussed.

Slightly?  Were there not enough topics discussing how poorly MA recruits for you?  Hell I have commented in about 5 in the last week.  Good job.

[jry04]

Slightly?  Were there not enough topics discussing how poorly MA recruits for you?  Hell I have commented in about 5 in the last week.  Good job.

I didn't realize a discussion about JUCO talent was the same as saying Mike Anderson is a poor recruiter. Really reaching there. Should be a expected in an Arkansas Jump Ball forum, though.

[azhog10]

What more is there to say? There are 100+ posts about him in this forum. He will either go pro or he won't. Some think he should, and some think he shouldn't. His game has been discussed for the last 2 months by the regulars on here. At this point there isn't much more to talk about until we find out if he even gets an invite to the combine.

What is funny, the ones saying he should go (a lot of them), will also be the ones ridiculing CMA for not getting him to stay.

[HawgAdvocate]

What is funny, the ones saying he should go (a lot of them), will also be the ones ridiculing CMA for not getting him to stay.

History says that won't be the case. Instead, they will/can point to the roster and ponder if Trey Thompson can/should man the middle on his own (aka recruiting, recruiting, recruiting). 

[hogsanity]

What is funny, the ones saying he should go (a lot of them), will also be the ones ridiculing CMA for not getting him to stay.

Well, I wont be. If you look back to last year, the one thing I said Mike should not be blamed for was Qualls or BP leaving for the pros.

[Jonteviosk]

Ditto, on that MK is a pretty good 4/5 in a weaker D1 conference, against a decent big man he pretty much gets not much, and what he does get is not on post moves, defensively he has some upside, but is not a good defender. His pro potential IMO is across the pond somewhere.

If he wants to be a BP, he has to figure out a way to extend his range, and improve his ability to change direction, and improve handle.

Someone wake this idiot up and point out MK was SEC defensive player of the year. Not to mention 2nd team all SEC only because of Ben Simmons. Learn basketball u moron.

[Pork Twain]

What is funny, the ones saying he should go (a lot of them), will also be the ones ridiculing CMA for not getting him to stay.

It has absolutely nothing to do with getting a player to stay, but it has everything to do with recruiting a full roster of replacements on a yearly basis.

[Hawg Red]

Someone wake this idiot up and point out MK was SEC defensive player of the year. Not to mention 2nd team all SEC only because of Ben Simmons. Learn basketball u moron.

Tyler Ulis was SEC DPOY, not Kingsley.

http://www.secsports.com/article/14925031/2016-sec-men-basketball-awards-announced

[azhog10]

It has absolutely nothing to do with getting a player to stay, but it has everything to do with recruiting a full roster of replacements on a yearly basis.

That's a completely different subject. I've already seen people saying if CMA can't convince him to come back....blah blah. The recruiting piece is a valid one, but has nothing to do with the comments I'm talking about.

[jry04]

Someone wake this idiot up and point out MK was SEC defensive player of the year. Not to mention 2nd team all SEC only because of Ben Simmons. Learn basketball u moron.

Definitely wasn't defensive POY. He got a lot of blocks, but struggled in post defense.

[Porked Tongue]

I've heard Moses will not graduate this Spring.  I know it's been posted on this board he would graduate early but I've never heard it anywhere else.

[Pork Twain]

That's a completely different subject. I've already seen people saying if CMA can't convince him to come back....blah blah. The recruiting piece is a valid one, but has nothing to do with the comments I'm talking about.

Very few are concerned with MA getting players to stay and if that is the stance you are taking, it is a reach.  Most that have complaints about MA is the high miss rate, lack of in state recruiting and not recruiting a full roster.

[SuperSid4Ever]

Very few are concerned with MA getting players to stay and if that is the stance you are taking, it is a reach.  Most that have complaints about MA is the high miss rate, lack of in state recruiting and not recruiting a full roster.

It's not what he's saying at all.  He's saying that if Moses leaves, many on here will say that CMA should be fired because he couldn't have coached them back into the NCAAT either way. 

And to be quite honest, all a person has to do is go back, read all the hate-filled spew which has been posted about Coach Anderson over the past year, and it becomes crystal clear that everything AZhog said has strong merit.

[hogsanity]

It's not what he's saying at all.  He's saying that if Moses leaves, many on here will say that CMA should be fired because he couldn't have coached them back into the NCAAT either way. 

And to be quite honest, all a person has to do is go back, read all the hate-filled spew which has been posted about Coach Anderson over the past year, and it becomes crystal clear that everything AZhog said has strong merit.

Hate filled? Really? Unless of course you consider people not liking losing being hate filled.

[Pork Twain]

It's not what he's saying at all.  He's saying that if Moses leaves, many on here will say that CMA should be fired because he couldn't have coached them back into the NCAAT either way. 

And to be quite honest, all a person has to do is go back, read all the hate-filled spew which has been posted about Coach Anderson over the past year, and it becomes crystal clear that everything AZhog said has strong merit.

Really because that is not what he has been saying all along and it is definitely not what he said in the post I quoted.  If you are unwilling to follow the path of a conversation, don't assume you know what the intent is.

What is funny, the ones saying he should go (a lot of them), will also be the ones ridiculing CMA for not getting him to stay.

Hate filled?  I am one of the loudest against MA because of his recruiting and inability to keep players, but I do not hate him or personally insult him.  I just think we could and should do better.

[Pork Twain]

Hate filled? Really? Unless of course you consider people not liking losing being hate filled.

The propaganda machine is strong.

[azhog10]

Very few are concerned with MA getting players to stay and if that is the stance you are taking, it is a reach.  Most that have complaints about MA is the high miss rate, lack of in state recruiting and not recruiting a full roster.

Why am I not surprised you don't get it........Oh that's right, bc you don't care to. You have your talking points and no matter what's discussed, you are going to stick to whatever's on the paper.

[jry04]

I've heard Moses will not graduate this Spring.  I know it's been posted on this board he would graduate early but I've never heard it anywhere else.

Still hearing he is leaning towards leaving?

[azhog10]

I've heard Moses will not graduate this Spring.  I know it's been posted on this board he would graduate early but I've never heard it anywhere else.

If true, then I don't see him leaving unless there's a really good shot he gets drafted. I hope NBA teams do him justice and are upfront and honest with him. Moses is a class act and I wish him all the best, but there are some out there that will tell him things hoping he signs with an agent and then try to get him out to the summer league and then sign if he shows out. If he doesn't show out then he's left without a degree and signing overseas.

I know many don't think so, but i think one more year and Moses chances of being drafted would be much much higher.

[Pork Twain]

Why am I not surprised you don't get it........Oh that's right, bc you don't care to. You have your talking points and no matter what's discussed, you are going to stick to whatever's on the paper.

Sorry if I do not "get" the things you are making up to support your take.

[SuperSid4Ever]

Hate filled? Really? Unless of course you consider people not liking losing being hate filled.

That's what I said.  It's about the only way to describe the dialogue some of you guys put out there on a nightly basis after a loss.  Doesn't matter that he's turned around every program he's coached at before coming here, or that he was coming off a 27-win season and an NCAAT 2nd round appearance.  Whenever the team lost a game, too many of you were on here ripping his knickers over it and screaming for his head to be served on a platter.

[Letsroll1200]

I've heard Moses will not graduate this Spring.  I know it's been posted on this board he would graduate early but I've never heard it anywhere else.

So he is going to leave school early to play overseas without a degree?

[songofthesword]

He's an above avg Athlete for a big event the NBA level. But he is not thick and his wingspan is pedestrian. But he can make a living as a backup big playing defense and rebounding


He has to rebound better and. Play more sound post defense

Tritstn Thompson best comparison

[songofthesword]

This is an extremely politically incorrect thing to say but it's got to be said.  Why don't u ever see white bb players rushing to declare just to go play in screwustain. Lol like there are no poor white college ball players. But they are going to get that degree. "But u don't understand they need money" yes they are n need f money because it's lifelong series of bad decisions like passing up a free college education to go play basketball half way around the world for 3-5 years.


Asca college coach my main focus would be getting players who are going to be happy here. Villinova does not have one player in their team with a prayer of playing in the NBA? But they all  stuck around. 

I'm not only black, I'm watching my older cousin right now (Mike Jones) transition to a life with no bball at 33 and a wife and no degree.  5 years and can't get a degree (redshirted)  it's sad

[Porked Tongue]

If I was to handicap Moses staying or going right now, I'd make it a straight 50/50 deal.

It's going to come down to the evaluation(early part not encouraging) and other workout opportunities prior to the designated date.

At this point, I don't think overseas is in the plan.  If he declares under the thought he would be drafted and doesn't get drafted then all bets are off.

[HoopS]

If I was to handicap Moses staying or going right now, I'd make it a straight 50/50 deal.

It's going to come down to the evaluation(early part not encouraging) and other workout opportunities prior to the designated date.

At this point, I don't think overseas is in the plan.  If he declares under the thought he would be drafted and doesn't get drafted then all bets are off.

early part not encouraging to who?

Moses, as in he didn't get good feedback or to the fans who want him back meaning he got feedback that says perhaps he should jump?

[Porked Tongue]

I'm not speaking from a fan's perspective.  Those views vary widely.

[aredwolfrazorback]

I actually think they have just as good of a chance to make the tourney without Mk as with him, but I do not think it is a sure thing in either case.

This is officially the dumbest comment I have ever read on Hogville.

Edit: I am amending this comment to agree with you if by "just as good of a chance to make the tourney" as zero chance either way.

[Nipsey Mussle]

Tyler Ulis was SEC DPOY, not Kingsley.

http://www.secsports.com/article/14925031/2016-sec-men-basketball-awards-announced

I was scratching my head when he posted that, I didn't think that was right.
But hey, a good big guy beats a good little guy, so technically Jonteviosk is onto something? Lol

[Nipsey Mussle]

The propaganda machine is strong.

Lol irony, my friend. You just made that reply to a guy who bashes MA on every thread, over the smallest things. The guy even is pretending to think we're as good without Moses, just so he can remove all potential excuses. He also said the best move we could make right now is to let MA go bc he's afraid we'll make the tournament this year (yes, he said that).

So yes, you are absolutely 100% correct in your reply.