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NL East Predictions

Started by Oklahawg, March 03, 2008, 10:59:02 pm

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Oklahawg

March 03, 2008, 10:59:02 pm
The NL's version of the "Eastern Power Division" with a couple of teams with more money than sense and a team from Florida with a lot of young talent but questionable front-office work.

1. Braves. Old habit? Or, am I just that much of a Met hater? I see the Mets as the quintessential team that has talent but lacks either character or chemistry. I see the Braves as the team with the best leadership in the division (with apologies to Jimmy Rollins and the Phils). The Braves have the young pups to deal for the final piece to the puzzle. I think Jeff Francouer has a huge breakout year and look for SS Yunil Escobar to become a househould name this year. They get a surprise 13-15 wins from Jair Jurrens (who came over in the Renteria deal with the Tigers) and pull ahead of the Mets at the bitter end. Texiera and an inspired Chipper Jones anchor an infield (and offense) that just doesn't give up freebies.

2. Mets are the logical wildcard (if you buy into the Braves theory) with flashy talent in Reyes and Wright on the left side of the infield. They also, by the way, picked up the top starter in baseball. I see Johan Santana giving Mets fans the yips in his first outing and then settling in for a sub-3.00 ERA and 21 wins this year. The rest of the rotation has as many questions as they do potential award winners. Pedro Martinez returns to Cy Young form or is a post-surgery bust? Oliver Perez becomes the dominant pitcher he was at 21 for the Pirates or looks like the AAAA pitcher on the Omaha to Kansas City frequent flyer flight? Is John Maine for real? Is Mike Pelphrey?

Yeah, they should probably be my favorites but I hate the Mets (love Reyes, though) and wonder if Reyes and Wright are the only offensive players to have similar or better seasons vs. 2007.

3. No surprises here, but the Phillies remain painfully close. I love the heart of the order with Jimmy Rollins, Ryan Howard and Chase Utley. I remain stunned that they've not dealt Pat Burrell to some unsuspecting fool. That Lidge is out and Tom Gordon starts the year as the next best closer should scare Phillie fans. Shouldn't Gordon be eligible for the HOF by now?

Solid, and sometimes spectacular, front-end starters in Cole Hamels and Brett Myers. I wonder how the #4 and #5 guys will work out, at least until Carlos Carrasco finds his way to the rotation (mid-year, if not earlier).

4. Washington gets the fourth spot by default, as they at least have names I recognize and far exceeded my expectations last year with lesser talent. One of the finest coaching jobs in recent memory went on with the Nats last year, a club I thought might challenge the 1962 Mets for the worst record in MLB history. Lots of serviceable talent and they are going to get lots of help on the mound from the minors. Collin Balester and Ross Detwiler are two #2 or #3 starters to fall in line behind Shawn Hill. Tyler Clippard came over from the Yanks and can contribute innings this year. The Nats lack a marquis offensive talent with 3B Ryan Zimmerman leading the way, ranking outside the NL's top 25 to many observers.

5. Oh, dear, the Marlins. We've been surprised before, but Joe Girardi isn't managing this gaggle of pups (I bet they lead the league in fewest razors used during a season). They sport a top-3 NL talent in Hanley Ramirez and decent supporting players in Dan Uggla and Josh Willingham. They are so thin Cameron Maybin - feature in the Willis and Cabrera deal with the Tigers - likely won't get his 300 ABs in AAA he needs, getting tossed to the wolves this April.

Where the Fish suffer most is in the bullpen, where injuries have robbed them of quite a few good arms, or at least put question marks next to them. They have, gulp, Kevin Gregg as their closer. Gregg is a great 7th or 8th inning guy but is not the poster child for Alpha Male closers. They'll use way too many young guns trying to get from the 5th or 6th inning to the 9th. I think a Henry Owens or Matt Lindstrom will eventually wrest control of the 9th inning for the Fish and things will move forward, with the other in the 8th and Gregg in the 7th. That's likely a 2009 move, and Gregg may have flown the coop by then.

Three good or great teams, and a big gap. The Nats are closer to the Fish than to the Phils. Not the league I look towards if I'm headed to Denver, St. Louis or Dallas for MLB this summer and am scouting out opponents.
I am a Hog fan. I was long before my name was etched, twice, on the sidewalks on the Hill. I will be long after Sam Pittman and Eric Mussleman are coaches, and Hunter Yuracheck is AD. I am a Hog fan when we win, when we lose and when we don't play. I love hearing the UA band play the National Anthem on game day, but I sing along to the Alma Mater. I am a Hog fan.<br /><br />A liberal education is at the heart of a civil society, and at the heart of a liberal education is the act of teaching. - Bart Giamatti <br /><br />"It is a puzzling thing. The truth knocks on the door and you say, 'Go away, I'm looking for the truth,' and so it goes away. Puzzling." ― Robert M. Pirsig<br /><br />Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good, too.  – Yogi Berra

Oliver

March 03, 2008, 11:40:24 pm #1
1.  Phillies.  I'm picking them to win because they have hands down the best offensive lineup in the NL East.  I'm also picking them because I want them to fall flat on their faces this year.  This happened to the Mets last year when I was super confident that they were going to re-peat as NL East championships. 

2.  Braves.  Because the Braves are the only team on the planet that can start 2 geriatric pitchers over the age of 40 and have them put up sub 3.50 ERA's.  I fully expect Tom Glavine to somehow channel 30 year old Tom Glavine when he pitches against the Mets this year.  Chipper Jones will continue to forever make me think that I'm living in hell on Earth.  When Mark Teixeira isn't frustrating me with the spelling of his last name, he'll be frustrating me at the plate.  The only light at the end of that tunnel is when we sell our souls to Scott Boras at the end of this year to overpay for Teixeira to replace old, washed up Carlos Delgado.  I'll officially be in full-on panic mode and will be prepared to fully slit my wrist this year if Mike Hampton makes it through more than 2 consecutive starts  without suffering an injury.

3.  Mets.  Best pitcher in MLB.  Mediocre manager.  Terrible first baseman.  Fantastic short stop and 3rd basemen.  The most overpaid player in baseball (our center fielder).  A catcher who can't hit.  A 40 plus year old in one corner outfield position and in the other...a former Washington National (at least it's not Shawn Green).  Good defensive 2nd basemen with knee problems.  A starting pitcher that has bunion problems.  This is not a very flattering way to describe the Mets but it's really not far off the mark.  I'm expecting another sub-par year from this bunch.

The rest of the NL East is pretty insignificant but would probably win or come close to winning the NL Central.
 

spudhog

March 04, 2008, 04:38:43 pm #2
1) Braves - If their pitching holds up
2) Phils- Will get off to another cold start and it will hurt them
3) Mets- Their lineup hasn't improved and their pitching staff is not stable
4) Marlins- Will be improved overall.
5) Nationals- Should be annexed from the league. Why do they still have a team?

SPAL

March 05, 2008, 10:40:14 pm #3
Quote from: Oliver Miller on March 03, 2008, 11:40:24 pm
1.  Phillies.  I'm picking them to win because they have hands down the best offensive lineup in the NL East.  I'm also picking them because I want them to fall flat on their faces this year.  This happened to the Mets last year when I was super confident that they were going to re-peat as NL East championships. 

2.  Braves.  Because the Braves are the only team on the planet that can start 2 geriatric pitchers over the age of 40 and have them put up sub 3.50 ERA's.  I fully expect Tom Glavine to somehow channel 30 year old Tom Glavine when he pitches against the Mets this year.  Chipper Jones will continue to forever make me think that I'm living in hell on Earth.  When Mark Teixeira isn't frustrating me with the spelling of his last name, he'll be frustrating me at the plate.  The only light at the end of that tunnel is when we sell our souls to Scott Boras at the end of this year to overpay for Teixeira to replace old, washed up Carlos Delgado.  I'll officially be in full-on panic mode and will be prepared to fully slit my wrist this year if Mike Hampton makes it through more than 2 consecutive starts  without suffering an injury.

3.  Mets.  Best pitcher in MLB.  Mediocre manager.  Terrible first baseman.  Fantastic short stop and 3rd basemen.  The most overpaid player in baseball (our center fielder).  A catcher who can't hit.  A 40 plus year old in one corner outfield position and in the other...a former Washington National (at least it's not Shawn Green).  Good defensive 2nd basemen with knee problems.  A starting pitcher that has bunion problems.  This is not a very flattering way to describe the Mets but it's really not far off the mark.  I'm expecting another sub-par year from this bunch.

The rest of the NL East is pretty insignificant but would probably win or come close to winning the NL Central.

Oliver, i dont care what anybody else says...i like you. You are one of my favorite posters on this board. Only you can make me laugh out loud without tryin to be funny.

SPAL

March 05, 2008, 10:45:33 pm #4
I honestly think this is our year...maybe the stars are finally lining up or maybe bobby cox hung up a 2 headed voodoo doodoo doll of jimmy rollins and jose reyes, or maybe our pitching staff dont break in half after the all star break....but SOMETHING in my bones says that this year we make it back to the postseason.

I do not think the wildcard comes out of the east this yea. With the diamondbacks, dodgers, and padres all tryin to contest the rockies, your wildcard will likely come out of the west. So in order to make the playoffs, i think we have to win the division.

Braves
Phills
Mets
Marlins
Nats

BradyHolzhauer

March 17, 2008, 06:35:31 pm #5
NL EAST:

1. New York Mets
2. Philadelphia Phillies
3. Atlanta Braves
4. Washington Nationals
5. Florida Marlins

bellavistamike

March 17, 2008, 08:00:30 pm #6
I like the Braves, if that pitching holds up. A young squad with a fiesty manager and some older pitchers.

Mets/Phils battle for wild card spot.

AirForceHog

March 19, 2008, 10:12:12 am #7
1 NY Mets
2 Atlanta Braves
3Philadelphia Phillies
4Florida Marlins
5Washington nationals


Go Braves!
If it turns, burns, banks or rolls, crew chiefs made it happen.

selfexplanatory

March 19, 2008, 10:51:54 am #8
Phils
Mets
Nationals
Braves
Marlins

This year's nominee for the Coopy award.
Quote from: majp51 on June 02, 2010, 03:27:42 pm
Err, now I know it's easy to bash Shiloh Christian, but I'm pretty there aren't that many high schools in Arkansas that have a player picked in the 3rd round of the NFL Draft.
Or have you forgotten where Damian Williams played school?

UhOhioHog

March 23, 2008, 09:40:14 pm #9
Mets
Braves
Phillies
Nationals
Marlins

LVW

March 24, 2008, 12:44:41 am #10
I give the Mets the edge over the Phils and Braves
1. Mets are superior defensively to the other two- there's a huge dropoff defensively for the Phils in the outfield going from Burrell, Rowand, Victorino and Bourn as the 4th OF to Burrell, Victorino, Jenkins, and Werth as the 4th OF.

2. Mets adding Johan makes the bullpen stronger down the stretch because he'll save them some innings virtually every start he makes with his ability to pitch deep into games. I don't see the Braves rotation being healthy enough or the Phils rotation being deep enough(The won't pull another Kyle Kendrick out of their rear like last year and the 2007 version that had a 3.87 ERA despite allowing 1.2 HR/9 and striking out only 3.7/9 will have an ERA closer to 5.50 than 3.87 with those same rates in 2008).

3. I believe they'll have a chip on their shoulder after last year's meltdown.

Van_the_man_Unusual

width=250 height=156]http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/8279/chapman.jpg

ErieHog

March 24, 2008, 01:12:25 am #11
The Mets brought the best pitcher in the past 20 years to the weaker league;  I loathe the Mets, but there is absolutely no reason they shouldn't vie for a 100 win season.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

LVW

March 24, 2008, 06:35:36 pm #12
Quote from: ErieHog on March 24, 2008, 01:12:25 am
The Mets brought the best pitcher in the past 20 years to the weaker league;  I loathe the Mets, but there is absolutely no reason they shouldn't vie for a 100 win season.

They have enough issues with age and offense to make 100 wins not really attainable.
Van_the_man_Unusual

width=250 height=156]http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/8279/chapman.jpg
 

ErieHog

March 24, 2008, 06:37:58 pm #13
Quote from: LVW on March 24, 2008, 06:35:36 pm
They have enough issues with age and offense to make 100 wins not really attainable.

They won 88 games with a less formidable lineup last year, and without Johan.

100 wins is *very* within reach.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

Oliver

March 24, 2008, 07:14:10 pm #14
Quote from: LVW on March 24, 2008, 06:35:36 pm
They have enough issues with age and offense to make 100 wins not really attainable.

I don't think you should be talking about age problems when 2/5's of your favorite team's pitching staff is over the age of 40 and Mike Hampton plays like he is.

LVW

March 24, 2008, 07:46:07 pm #15
Quote from: Oliver Miller on March 24, 2008, 07:14:10 pm
I don't think you should be talking about age problems when 2/5's of your favorite team's pitching staff is over the age of 40 and Mike Hampton plays like he is.

the Braves aren't my favorite team.
Van_the_man_Unusual

width=250 height=156]http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/8279/chapman.jpg

LVW

March 24, 2008, 07:56:41 pm #16
Quote from: ErieHog on March 24, 2008, 06:37:58 pm
They won 88 games with a less formidable lineup last year, and without Johan.

100 wins is *very* within reach.

They also only went 62-60 in the last 122 games.
Van_the_man_Unusual

width=250 height=156]http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/8279/chapman.jpg

ErieHog

March 24, 2008, 08:25:47 pm #17
Quote from: LVW on March 24, 2008, 07:56:41 pm
They also only went 62-60 in the last 122 games.

Shows that there is massive room for improvement, and that their staff broke down because of the lack of a big front-line starter that could break up bad, streaky play.   That's fixed now, in the biggest way possible.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

Oklahawg

March 24, 2008, 08:47:35 pm #18
Erie, I'm going with 91 wins for the Mets. Johan brings an upgrade of 10-12 wins, and Pedro will add another 5-7 over the pitchers who filled those spots last year (with Johan in the AL and Pedro out hurt). However, Delgado is showing serious signs of decline, and Alou is no spring chicken. The 4th OF is Angel Pagan, which doesn't exactly inspire given the injury history of Alou and Beltran (is he going back to 06 form, or re-run the pedestrian 07 numbers?).

There is no minor league depth left to acquire a body if one is needed. They must move within the system for help, or lurk on the waiver wire.

They are still quite good and I predict they'll be a playoff team. I see more question marks for them then for the Braves or Phillies. I see less talent with the Phillies so they are down a notch. The Braves seem to have the magical formula of vets, depth, sprinkling of youth (Escobar, for example) and a DEEP minor league system with players ready to plug in (Jurrens, Bennett, Jones, Shaefer, and Lillibridge can all help soon, or are dandy trade fodder).
I am a Hog fan. I was long before my name was etched, twice, on the sidewalks on the Hill. I will be long after Sam Pittman and Eric Mussleman are coaches, and Hunter Yuracheck is AD. I am a Hog fan when we win, when we lose and when we don't play. I love hearing the UA band play the National Anthem on game day, but I sing along to the Alma Mater. I am a Hog fan.<br /><br />A liberal education is at the heart of a civil society, and at the heart of a liberal education is the act of teaching. - Bart Giamatti <br /><br />"It is a puzzling thing. The truth knocks on the door and you say, 'Go away, I'm looking for the truth,' and so it goes away. Puzzling." ― Robert M. Pirsig<br /><br />Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good, too.  – Yogi Berra

ErieHog

March 24, 2008, 09:05:42 pm #19
Quote from: Oklahawg on March 24, 2008, 08:47:35 pm
Erie, I'm going with 91 wins for the Mets. Johan brings an upgrade of 10-12 wins, and Pedro will add another 5-7 over the pitchers who filled those spots last year (with Johan in the AL and Pedro out hurt). However, Delgado is showing serious signs of decline, and Alou is no spring chicken. The 4th OF is Angel Pagan, which doesn't exactly inspire given the injury history of Alou and Beltran (is he going back to 06 form, or re-run the pedestrian 07 numbers?).

There is no minor league depth left to acquire a body if one is needed. They must move within the system for help, or lurk on the waiver wire.

They are still quite good and I predict they'll be a playoff team. I see more question marks for them then for the Braves or Phillies. I see less talent with the Phillies so they are down a notch. The Braves seem to have the magical formula of vets, depth, sprinkling of youth (Escobar, for example) and a DEEP minor league system with players ready to plug in (Jurrens, Bennett, Jones, Shaefer, and Lillibridge can all help soon, or are dandy trade fodder).

The single biggest difference that Santana will have on that staff is the ability he has to work deep into a *lot* of games.  While Mets middle relief isn't going to scare anyone, it will be in much better shape in August and September than it was last year, and winning some of those NL record 30 games that the Mets lost despite leading in the 7th inning or later last year.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

Oliver

March 24, 2008, 10:08:58 pm #20
Quote from: ErieHog on March 24, 2008, 09:05:42 pm
The single biggest difference that Santana will have on that staff is the ability he has to work deep into a *lot* of games.  While Mets middle relief isn't going to scare anyone, it will be in much better shape in August and September than it was last year, and winning some of those NL record 30 games that the Mets lost despite leading in the 7th inning or later last year.

Santana will improve our middle relief due to him being able to eat up innings but the return of Duaner Sanchez will really help out this year.  He was injured all last year and was our best reliever the year before.  Juan Padilla will also return at some point this season.  I really hope that we won't be as snakebit with our relievers as we were last year.

Oliver

March 24, 2008, 10:09:21 pm #21
Quote from: LVW on March 24, 2008, 07:46:07 pm
the Braves aren't my favorite team.

My fault.  I see you posting on their blog quite a bit.

Oliver

March 24, 2008, 10:10:05 pm #22
Quote from: LVW on March 24, 2008, 07:56:41 pm
They also only went 62-60 in the last 122 games.

And still lost the division the very last day of the regular season.

Oklahawg

March 24, 2008, 10:57:59 pm #23
I like the thoughts of a 3-team race. Keep it very interesting.

Duaner Sanchez will sneak up on folks. He was once the "next great closer" type. Injuries have taken him off of everyone's radar. He's nice insurance for Wagner. As said above, combining several posters, a healthy Pedro + Johan eating major innings helps reduce wear and tear on the bullpen. I think the Braves have the best overall pen, but the endgame in NYC is hot.
I am a Hog fan. I was long before my name was etched, twice, on the sidewalks on the Hill. I will be long after Sam Pittman and Eric Mussleman are coaches, and Hunter Yuracheck is AD. I am a Hog fan when we win, when we lose and when we don't play. I love hearing the UA band play the National Anthem on game day, but I sing along to the Alma Mater. I am a Hog fan.<br /><br />A liberal education is at the heart of a civil society, and at the heart of a liberal education is the act of teaching. - Bart Giamatti <br /><br />"It is a puzzling thing. The truth knocks on the door and you say, 'Go away, I'm looking for the truth,' and so it goes away. Puzzling." ― Robert M. Pirsig<br /><br />Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good, too.  – Yogi Berra
 

LVW

March 25, 2008, 12:10:45 am #24
Quote from: Oliver Miller on March 24, 2008, 10:09:21 pm
My fault.  I see you posting on their blog quite a bit.

i'm a baseball fan 1st and foremost then a team fan.
Van_the_man_Unusual

width=250 height=156]http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/8279/chapman.jpg

Oliver

March 25, 2008, 04:42:55 pm #25
The real problem with the Mets this year will be Carlos Delgado.  This guy just shouldn't be starting on a MLB team anymore.  And we really don't have a good backup first baseman.  Delgado will be a giant rally-killing black hole in the middle of the Mets lineup this year.  The problem is...what are you going to do?  He's too expensive to sit on the bench all year and after trading for Santana, we really don't have too many pieces to get a decent first baseman.  I think the best thing would be to bat him 7th before Schneider or bat him 8th if Castro is playing catcher. 

gutshot

March 25, 2008, 05:01:41 pm #26
Quote from: ErieHog on March 24, 2008, 09:05:42 pm
The single biggest difference that Santana will have on that staff is the ability he has to work deep into a *lot* of games.  While Mets middle relief isn't going to scare anyone, it will be in much better shape in August and September than it was last year, and winning some of those NL record 30 games that the Mets lost despite leading in the 7th inning or later last year.


The same argument could be made for the Braves staff, too. 

Smoltz, Hudson, Glavine, Jurrjens  >  Smoltz, Hudson, James, Carlyle/Davies/Cormier/Redman any old day of the week.  Should take some of the pressure off the relievers, as well as off Hudson and Smoltz, who felt the need to go that extra mile in '07 to make up for the pitiful back-end of the rotation.  The Braves staff threw one complete game in '07, and it was in the last month of the Season.

ErieHog

March 25, 2008, 06:23:58 pm #27
Quote from: gutshot on March 25, 2008, 05:01:41 pm

The same argument could be made for the Braves staff, too. 

Smoltz, Hudson, Glavine, Jurrjens  >  Smoltz, Hudson, James, Carlyle/Davies/Cormier/Redman any old day of the week.  Should take some of the pressure off the relievers, as well as off Hudson and Smoltz, who felt the need to go that extra mile in '07 to make up for the pitiful back-end of the rotation.  The Braves staff threw one complete game in '07, and it was in the last month of the Season.


The Braves should be better, yes.   Not as improved as the Mets, though.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

BradyHolzhauer

March 25, 2008, 07:10:02 pm #28
I had high hopes for the Mets, but they better start showing more than they've shown this Spring.
ST or not, they sucked it up at least when the Cards played them.

ErieHog

March 25, 2008, 07:12:23 pm #29
Quote from: BradyHolzhauer on March 25, 2008, 07:10:02 pm
I had high hopes for the Mets, but they better start showing more than they've shown this Spring.
ST or not, they sucked it up at least when the Cards played them.

Spring Training success is one of the worst indicators of regular season performance among all metrics.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

BradyHolzhauer

March 25, 2008, 07:35:03 pm #30
Quote from: ErieHog on March 25, 2008, 07:12:23 pm
Spring Training success is one of the worst indicators of regular season performance among all metrics.

Like I said, ST or not...
Last season and on, Johan hasn't been the typical Johan.  I honestly don't think they're getting the Cy Young winner he was before.  Dunno, just a gut feeling.

hog_heaven_2000

March 25, 2008, 07:36:03 pm #31
Mets
Braves
Phillies
Marlins
Nationals
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."

ErieHog

March 25, 2008, 07:36:53 pm #32
Quote from: BradyHolzhauer on March 25, 2008, 07:35:03 pm
Like I said, ST or not...
Last season and on, Johan hasn't been the typical Johan.  I honestly don't think they're getting the Cy Young winner he was before.  Dunno, just a gut feeling.

Johann is not a Spring Training player.  I've watched him pitch since he came up, and to be honest, last September, he was probably dealing the nastiest stuff of his entire career, markedly better than his Cy Young season.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

Oklahawg

March 25, 2008, 08:37:35 pm #33
Great discussion guys. Totally glad the season began this AM about 6 o'clock.

Let that sink in. That just feels funky, doesn't it?

Almost as odd as those 11am starts on Patriots Day in Boston.
I am a Hog fan. I was long before my name was etched, twice, on the sidewalks on the Hill. I will be long after Sam Pittman and Eric Mussleman are coaches, and Hunter Yuracheck is AD. I am a Hog fan when we win, when we lose and when we don't play. I love hearing the UA band play the National Anthem on game day, but I sing along to the Alma Mater. I am a Hog fan.<br /><br />A liberal education is at the heart of a civil society, and at the heart of a liberal education is the act of teaching. - Bart Giamatti <br /><br />"It is a puzzling thing. The truth knocks on the door and you say, 'Go away, I'm looking for the truth,' and so it goes away. Puzzling." ― Robert M. Pirsig<br /><br />Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good, too.  – Yogi Berra

Oliver

March 25, 2008, 08:43:52 pm #34
Quote from: BradyHolzhauer on March 25, 2008, 07:35:03 pm
Like I said, ST or not...
Last season and on, Johan hasn't been the typical Johan.  I honestly don't think they're getting the Cy Young winner he was before.  Dunno, just a gut feeling.

Maybe not, but putting him in a league where he gets to face the pitchers in the batting order will definitely help.  The guy dominated the American League for the last few years.  Imagine what he will do to National League hitting.

LVW

March 25, 2008, 09:02:13 pm #35
Quote from: BradyHolzhauer on March 25, 2008, 07:35:03 pm
Like I said, ST or not...
Last season and on, Johan hasn't been the typical Johan.  I honestly don't think they're getting the Cy Young winner he was before.  Dunno, just a gut feeling.

The only difference between the Johan of 2007 and the Johan of 2004-06 was the rate of flyballs he allowed that went for homers was 15% in the 2nd half last year which was really a fluke and something that Shea will make sure stays a fluke.
Van_the_man_Unusual

width=250 height=156]http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/8279/chapman.jpg

ErieHog

March 25, 2008, 09:11:41 pm #36
Quote from: Oklahawg on March 25, 2008, 08:37:35 pm
Great discussion guys. Totally glad the season began this AM about 6 o'clock.

Let that sink in. That just feels funky, doesn't it?

Almost as odd as those 11am starts on Patriots Day in Boston.


One of the bright sides of living in Western Europe was that the season kicked off at 10am for me :)
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

SPAL

March 29, 2008, 03:35:01 pm #37 Last Edit: March 29, 2008, 03:54:46 pm by sir-pigs-a-lot
I think
the mets success will depend more on john maine and oliverperez than it will johan. Yo Hon is goin to get his 20 +....you beat the mts by beating the back end of their rotation much like teams did to the braves a year ago. The same holds true for the braves....to win the east, you have to beat glavine, Hampton and jurrJins. Smoltz and Hudson will win their share....If glavine can prove effective and keep the ball down, hampton can stay healthy, and jurrjens continue to play well, then braves will be tough to beat.
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