Random thoughts.............

[DLUXHOG]

  Before Broyles we don't even want to think about discussing....

Frank Broyles was here for 19 years and averaged a record of 8 wins and 3 losses per season.   4 - 6 in bowl games..
Lou Holtz arrived in 1977, was here for 7 years and averaged a record of 9 wins and 3 losses per season.  3 - 2 - 1 in bowl games..
Ken Hatfield arrived in 1984, was here for 6 seasons and averaged a record of 9 wins and 3 losses per season.  1 - 5 in bowl games..

  .... something happened to the program between Hatfield and Crowe after having 30 consecutive winning seasons +/-, the Hogs had losing seasons for the next 8 consecutive seasons.... what was it?  death or sickness in someone's family, stinking recruiting, or simply stinking coaches...

Jack Crowe arrived in 1990, was here for 2 seasons and averaged a record of 5 wins and 7 losses per season.  0 - 1 in bowl games..
Joe Kines arrived in 1992, was here for 1 season and compiled a record of 3 wins and 6 losses that season. 
Danny Ford arrived in 1993, was here for 5 seasons and averaged a record of 5 wins and 6 losses per season.  0 - 1 in bowl games..

rah rah.... we started to turn it around...
Houston Nutt arrived in 1998, was here for 10 seasons and average a record of 7 wins and 5 losses per season.  2 - 4 in bowl games..

ahh.. we are getting better... much better...
Bobby Petrino arrived in 2008, was here for 4 seasons and averaged a record of 9 wins and 4 losses per season.  2 - 1 in bowl games..

sh*t happens I guess...
John L... 1 year - 4 wins and 8 losses for that year.... ughh!
I reckon that we found out that sh*t really does happen..

Bret Bielema arrived in 2013 and has average a record of 6 wins and 7 losses per year.. 2 - 1 in bowl games..
Bielema obviously has the program headed in the correct direction.....    some of you need to take a chill pill as this year could be a significant turning point..

Holtz, Petrino, and Bielema have the best bowl records (winning ones anyway) of any coaches... Hatfield had the worst bowl record of all coaches...

your feedback is welcome, especially regarding whatever happened to the program between Hatfield and Crowe....

[Bubba's Bruisers]

SEC?

[alohawg]

SEC?

SUC?

[DLUXHOG]

SEC?

nah... SEC was 2 years later and for sure caused some damage, but something happened between 1989 & 1990.....  something happened... it wasn't Frank's wife's diagnoses of Alzheimer's as that occurred in 1999....  hmmmmm...

[Bubba's Bruisers]

nah... SEC was 2 years later and for sure caused some damage, but something happened between 1989 & 1990.....  something happened... it wasn't Frank's wife's diagnoses of Alzheimer's as that occurred in 1999....  hmmmmm...

You're acting like it's some trick question.  So I'm missing it.  Missing on the idea that this all hinges on a single year, some smoking gun.

Anywho, I've always wondered about integration, which I'm thinking wasn't fully implemented in CFB until the early to mid 70's.  Did we have the same access to the best players once all were allowed to play?  I mean it wouldn't have come to a screeching halt for us, but might have taken a decade or so to take its full effect. 

Or was JFB's reputation as a meddler preceeding him by 1990?  How attractive was he as a potential boss?

[DLUXHOG]

Well, I've always wondered about integration, which I'm thinking wasn't fully implemented in CFB until the early to mid 70's.  Did we have the same access to the best players once all were allowed to play?  I mean it wouldn't have come to a screeching halt for us, but might have taken a decade or so to take its full effect. 

Or was JFB's reputation as a meddler preceeding him by 1990?  How attractive was he as a potential boss?

integration occurred long before 1989, long before...   so, you're technically saying we had bottom feeder, crappy coaches after Hatfield?

[Bubba's Bruisers]

integration occurred long before 1989, long before...   so, you're technically saying we had bottom feeder, crappy coaches after Hatfield?

Other than BP, they've all been mediocre at best.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

And I noted when integration occurred, but that the effects of such probably weren't fully realized until later.

[DLUXHOG]

You're acting like it's some trick question.  So I'm missing it.  Missing on the idea that this all hinges on a single year, some smoking gun.

Anywho, I've always wondered about integration, which I'm thinking wasn't fully implemented in CFB until the early to mid 70's.  Did we have the same access to the best players once all were allowed to play?  I mean it wouldn't have come to a screeching halt for us, but might have taken a decade or so to take its full effect. 

Or was JFB's reputation as a meddler preceeding him by 1990?  How attractive was he as a potential boss?

dude... we went from two, back to back 10-2 seasons (and 30 consecutive winning seasons)  to 8 consecutive losing seasons..... there's no trick question...  something went obviously haywire between 1989 and 1990 and I'm simply questioning those that are knowledgeable of the history of the program as to what it could be..........   simply put, how could a program, that was in the running for the NC a few times over the previous 30 years fall overnight to such a low level?

[Bubba's Bruisers]

dude... we went from two, back to back 10-2 seasons (and 30 consecutive winning seasons)  to 8 consecutive losing seasons..... there's no trick question...  something went obviously haywire between 1989 and 1990 and I'm simply questioning those that are knowledgeable of the history of the program as to what it could be..........   simply put, how could a program, that was in the running for the NC a few times over the previous 30 years fall overnight to such a low level?

I'm saying 1989 isn't necessary some smoking gun. That it wasn't some flip of the switch event that changed everything.  It's more likely that it's a number of factors that accumulated and more be the effects of such were realized about the same time.  Maybe Recruiting somewhat deteriorating, maybe Broyles truly was a meddler and over time potential coaches didn't want to come here resulting in a string of poor coaching hires, etc... 

I mean, what do you think it is?  Surely you have a theory. 

[Biggus Piggus]

dude... we went from two, back to back 10-2 seasons (and 30 consecutive winning seasons)  to 8 consecutive losing seasons..... there's no trick question...  something went obviously haywire between 1989 and 1990 and I'm simply questioning those that are knowledgeable of the history of the program as to what it could be..........   simply put, how could a program, that was in the running for the NC a few times over the previous 30 years fall overnight to such a low level?

Arkansas did NOT have eight consecutive losing seasons. Where the hell do you get that? Arkansas won the friggin' SEC West in 1995. You forget that? Went to a bowl game in 1991 too.

[rtr]

Arkansas was terrible it's last two years in the Southwest Conference, then entered the SEC as it was ascending to dominance.

[DLUXHOG]

I'm saying 1989 isn't necessary some smoking gun. That it wasn't some flip of the switch event that changed everything.  It's more likely that it's a number of factors that accumulated and more be the effects of such were realized about the same time.  Maybe Recruiting somewhat deteriorating, maybe Broyles truly was a meddler and over time potential coaches didn't want to come here resulting in a string of poor coaching hires, etc... 

I mean, what do you think it is?  Surely you have a theory. 

"good old boy Razorback Foundation BOD, BOT, etc" is my guess as to who the meddler's were......... what do I know though...

[DLUXHOG]

Arkansas did NOT have eight consecutive losing seasons. Where the hell do you get that? Arkansas won the friggin' SEC West in 1995. You forget that? Went to a bowl game in 1991 too.

91' record was 6-6 (bowl game was the "everyone get's a trophy bowl (CARQUEST Bowl)....
95' record was 8-5, Danny's only bright spot in his years of losing seasons here....... 

[Bubba's Bruisers]

If we want to simply target 1989 to 1990, then I guess look straight to Jack Crowe.  Bad hire, horrible results.  Probably poor recruiting and talent.  Fire him and enter the SEC at the same time.  Kines for a year.  More poor results and probably mediocre recruiting.  Then Ford, where talent finally picked up, but it seemed he was well past his time.  On and on... 

Overall mediocre coaching and recruiting starting around 1990.  That being magnified by simultaneously trying to make our way through the gauntlet that was the SEC, maybe the toughest conference in the country.

[Piggfoot]

How long will it take Arkansas fans to stop comparing the records of the Razorbacks when they were in the SWC. Those days are over. When we went to the SEC our record against them was I think less than 50%. But of course we were going to make more money. Was it worth it? Is everyone happier.
Basketball was fun for awhile until they shut Nolan down and he and Broyles had a falling out. In the Broyles era I can't think of a coaching change that occurred on good terms.

[rtr]

If we want to simply target 1989 to 1990, then I guess look straight to Jack Crowe.  Bad hire, horrible results.  Probably poor recruiting and talent.  Fire him and enter the SEC at the same time.  Kines for a year.  More poor results and probably mediocre recruiting.  Then Ford, where talent finally picked up, but it seemed he was well past his time.  On and on... 

Overall mediocre coaching and recruiting starting around 1990.  That being magnified by simultaneously trying to make our way through the gauntlet that was the SEC, maybe the toughest conference in the country.

We also played Tennessee, when they were at their peak, every year.

[Hawgvillain]

Scholarship limits were part of it. 1973 (title ix), 78, and to current levels in 1992.

[OneTuskOverTheLine™]

We also played Tennessee, when they were at their peak, every year.

Yeah, and now Bama has taken their spot. If we have a losing season I pray its 2-9 and the last win is Bama by a zillion.

[factchecker]

Didn't the rest of the SWC (Texas teams) all gang up and blackball us with recruits because we were leaving for the SEC?

There is a ton of politics in Texas football.  The college coaches have to be in good with the high school coaches or they don't last long.

[hogsanity]

nah... SEC was 2 years later and for sure caused some damage, but something happened between 1989 & 1990.....  something happened... it wasn't Frank's wife's diagnoses of Alzheimer's as that occurred in 1999....  hmmmmm...

It was the fans constant bitching about the offense being boring. JFB finally got tired of hearing it, demanded Hatfield make changes, Ken rightfully said blank you ( Although he was probably very polite about it ). 

[hogsanity]

How long will it take Arkansas fans to stop comparing the records of the Razorbacks when they were in the SWC. Those days are over. When we went to the SEC our record against them was I think less than 50%. But of course we were going to make more money. Was it worth it? Is everyone happier.
Basketball was fun for awhile until they shut Nolan down and he and Broyles had a falling out. In the Broyles era I can't think of a coaching change that occurred on good terms.

I do not think they ever comprehended how tough recruiting was going to be in the SEC, nor did they anticipate the arms race that would come in coaches pay and facilities.

[hoggusamoungus]

91' record was 6-6 (bowl game was the "everyone get's a trophy bowl (CARQUEST Bowl)....
95' record was 8-5, Danny's only bright spot in his years of losing seasons here.......

Actually, the 1991 bowl game was the Weed Whacker against Georgia.  Played North Carolina in the Carquest after the 1995 season.

[12247]

Somewhere along about the time in question, Frank was stopped from deciding the coaches alone.  I believe White became an active partner in choosing our coaches.
We have been on a downslide for 3 decades it seems.  For some reason, we cannot find the right coach even when the problem isn't money. 

Our management don't seen to be able to decide on folks that have any can do.  A friend of mine who was really close to Hog football 30 years ago and up until about 8 years ago, said Frank became a problem for many coaches with his meddling in the program.  Most didn't want any part of that.  He also said White demanded to be in the thick of the process and was an idiot from a sports point of view.

Jeff Long is another in a long line of ill educated managers who have been a part of the hiring process.  BB has proven to be a total loser as a coach for us but even if he had proven to be far more the coach he really is, he still would not have won for us to where most of us believe we can be.  His choice of scheme on offense  will not win much in the SEC.  Even BAMA who can come closest to just running over people, even they cannot just run it over people and be really successful.  With the linemen we can get, we can barely run over the rent a wins and truthfully  some of them can stop us.  8 win seasons was always going to be the ceiling but that should have been fairly easy to get to.  Anything more than 8 would have been a real uphill battle.  We just don't have the artillery to power run the football.  Long showed he didn't understand the basic football knowledge to find and hire a coach who might have a chance to win here.  BBs by far largest problem is not scheme, its not being able to instill attitude and the will to never quit. 

[Biggus Piggus]

91' record was 6-6 (bowl game was the "everyone get's a trophy bowl (CARQUEST Bowl)....
95' record was 8-5, Danny's only bright spot in his years of losing seasons here....... 

Hogs were 5-5-1 in 1993, Ford's first season as head coach at Arkansas. Not a losing record either.

I do not understand why people post this kind of stuff without actually getting the correct information first. It is very easy to get. Do not post shat you don't know.

[bphi11ips]

Other than BP, they've all been mediocre at best.

This as close to the reason as anyone has posted yet in this thread.  I'm not ready to give up on Bielema just yet because of three losses.  There are plenty of similar trajectories like Dantonio and Spurrier to point to.  I'd also like to see him coach at least one year with a QB not named Allen. 

Jack Crowe took over a program that was well-known for playing fundamentally sound football and not beating itself.  That's how Broyles, Holtz and Hatfield won as many as they did.  The notion that the SWC was weak is a myth. It would be a P5 conference in 2017. 

Crowe turned defense and special teams to junk almost overnight.  That is the program that entered the SEC.  Broyles hired Ford to return fundamentally sound football to Fayetteville.  He did that for the most part but lacked the fire to take the team where he would have 20 years earlier.  Tubberville would have done it.  Nutt was pretty good until he let Broyles control his philosophy and before he let the power of his position go to his head. 

It didn't take long for a truly good football coach with purpose to get things going, but that guy screwed up off the field.  Bret Bielema showed every indication that he would return fundamentally sound football to Fayetteville, but at the moment we're still waiting for that in all three phases of the game.

But from 1990 to 2007, we didn't have the quality in our head coaches that we did from 1958-1989.  That's it in a nutshell.