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What is the commitment to winning?

Started by JOKERHOG, July 22, 2017, 06:00:25 pm

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factchecker

Quote from: Hoginsavga on July 23, 2017, 09:33:10 am
But you do understand that CBP was coaching Western Kentucky (2013) and Louisville (2014-2016) while CBB was coaching AR during that same time, don't you? Are you saying those teams have the same quality of players and the results of the games are due strictly to coaching?

CBB was coaching Wisconsin when he beat the Ohio State team that beat us.  Are you saying that Wisconsin team was more talented than our 2010 Razorback squad?

Regardless the point still stands you can't compare beating AnM across the coaches.  AnM wasn't in the SEC and they were being coached by Fran.  Two different circumstances.
WORK FOR IT
PLAN ON IT
EARN IT
OMAHOGS

theFlyingHog

Quote from: presidenthog on July 22, 2017, 09:54:52 pm
Rory was the worst recruiter on staff by far. That is why j wanted him fired. His unit also under performed for their talent.

These are facts. Now why he did whatever he did coaching has no meaning to me. I believe 100% that Robb Smith changed the defense after 2014 because he knew he didn't have the linebackers to play like they did before.

In the end he was fired because the players lost faith in the system, and he had no background with the 3-4.
I'm not defending Rory but I also don't think we should sling mud at him for the DL's performance until we find out if Robb was hamstringing them with his play calling. Rory can't tell his guys to attack if the DC is calling plays that have them playing contain and block-eating. I'm no expert but it sure looked to me like Robb was handcuffing the line.

 

oldhawg

Quote from: Hoginsavga on July 23, 2017, 09:33:10 am
But you do understand that CBP was coaching Western Kentucky (2013) and Louisville (2014-2016) while CBB was coaching AR during that same time, don't you? Are you saying those teams have the same quality of players and the results of the games are due strictly to coaching?

I would say that there was not a great difference in quality of players during that timeframe (2013-2016).  The difference may be in quality of players that their opponents had.

Hoginsavga

Quote from: factchecker on July 23, 2017, 09:39:39 am
CBB was coaching Wisconsin when he beat the Ohio State team that beat us.  Are you saying that Wisconsin team was more talented than our 2010 Razorback squad?

Regardless the point still stands you can't compare beating AnM across the coaches.  AnM wasn't in the SEC and they were being coached by Fran.  Two different circumstances.

I will give you 2010, good point. Outside of that the others are meaningless, IMO.

#1Fan

Quote from: factchecker on July 23, 2017, 09:39:39 am
CBB was coaching Wisconsin when he beat the Ohio State team that beat us.  Are you saying that Wisconsin team was more talented than our 2010 Razorback squad?

Regardless the point still stands you can't compare beating AnM across the coaches.  AnM wasn't in the SEC and they were being coached by Fran.  Two different circumstances.

Well, they did have 12 players drafted by the NFL that played on that team, including JJ Watt and two other first round picks.

LZH

Quote from: #1Fan on July 23, 2017, 10:46:50 am
Well, they did have 12 players drafted by the NFL that played on that team, including JJ Watt and two other first round picks.

He was a two-star.....proves BB can't recruit.

26.2Hog

Quote from: Hoginsavga on July 22, 2017, 10:03:12 pm
And so am I trapped in the 1960s. It was a wonderful time to be a Razorback Fan. So was the 70s' and 80's. Based on one of your previous posts I understand you are only 32 years old so you don't understand the glory years many of us "old timers" experienced. If you did you would never disparage what Frank Broyles, Lou Holtz and Ken Hatfield did as Razorback coaches. Sure it was a different time and era but you have to understand that those coaches were up against pretty salty opponents as well and won their share.

TCU, Rice, Texass, SMU(cheaters) Houston and A&M all had good to great teams during the 60s'. As a matter of fact, three SWC teams were ranked 1,2, and 3 at one point during one season during the sixties. The Hogs were one of those three teams. So you cannot simply brush aside the accomplishments achieved by some of our wonderful history because you are too young to understand.

Yes, I understand we are in a different time and era and it's easy to say we just cannot do any better. But don't tell that to coaches like Chris Peterson at Washington. Not to the administration at Michigan, Texas or other schools that will not accept mediocrity. Keep in mind that that from 1959 through the eighties we were not too far behind those schools in regard to football recognition.

So be critical if you wish but some of us have very fond memories of what Razorback football meant for three decades and it is very difficult to let go of that history. One thing you will never see from me is to tell a Razorback fan to go root for another team simply because that fan had great memories of what that coach did for the Razorbacks. We may hold different opinions of what should be done but that doesn't make any of us less of a fan.

Excellent post.

#1Fan

Quote from: LZH on July 23, 2017, 10:55:51 am
He was a two-star.....proves BB can't recruit.

You're right, he didn't recruit him even though he was an in-state player.  He went to Central Michigan and then walked on at Wisky.  He did develop him, though, by converting him from a tight end to a defensive end.

tophawg19

the commitment to winning is high . but so is about 40 other schools and most don't face the SEC west . over the last 30 years we have seen the rise of a number of other programs and overall football has become more competitive as a whole , you only have to look at Notre Dame , Texas , USC, UCLA , Michigan ETC . these once dominant teams are like us and in a dogfight every week just to survive . The rise of Stanford, Oregon , Florida state , Michigan St. among others just means the field of good teams is rising every year .Even the TCU's And Houston's have to be accounted for . Our work on the stadium, Field house , Weight rooms and training/Education center and changes in staff prove we are committed , it just doesn't fit your agenda's or lack of knowledge about other teams . Everyone is doing the same things trying to get better , There is just many more big fish fighting in the same pond
if you ain't a hawg you ain't chitlins

hawgon

Long thinks we are anice little program and should be happy with doing things "the right way".

HiggiePiggy

Quote from: tophawg19 on July 23, 2017, 11:48:21 am
the commitment to winning is high . but so is about 40 other schools and most don't face the SEC west . over the last 30 years we have seen the rise of a number of other programs and overall football has become more competitive as a whole , you only have to look at Notre Dame , Texas , USC, UCLA , Michigan ETC . these once dominant teams are like us and in a dogfight every week just to survive . The rise of Stanford, Oregon , Florida state , Michigan St. among others just means the field of good teams is rising every year .Even the TCU's And Houston's have to be accounted for . Our work on the stadium, Field house , Weight rooms and training/Education center and changes in staff prove we are committed , it just doesn't fit your agenda's or lack of knowledge about other teams . Everyone is doing the same things trying to get better , There is just many more big fish fighting in the same pond

It's really about coaching.  A great coach at USC, Michigan, Notre Dame or any other big time program would be contenders for the playoffs and NCs.  At Arkansas a great coach will get you 10 and 11 wins and possibly a playoff picture every now and then.  Coaching is the difference for all schools.  A great coach will win a lot at any school.  A great coach at a top tier program will get you into the playoffs and into NCs a lot. 
If a man speaks and no woman is around to hear him, is he still wrong?

hobhog

Gawd I can't wait until the players report......

theFlyingHog

Quote from: hawgon on July 23, 2017, 11:59:38 am
Long thinks we are anice little program and should be happy with doing things "the right way".
This is why I think about every time you post


Would you really be happy if we were Ole Miss right now? Is that what you want?
Stop it with the "Long doesn't care if we win" stuff. I promise you, he wants to win

 

hogman64

there is a commitment to being middle of the road in the SEC and a commitment to keeping the SEC revenue and booster donations gravy train running so that we can pay out a lot of money to a lot of people, build a lot of new stuff and update a lot of stuff... all of which no where near puts in a position to win the SEC.  There is no commitment to winning an SEC championship, just a commitment to keep the Hog fans believing we can win one...

Hoginsavga

Quote from: HiggiePiggy on July 23, 2017, 01:17:27 pm
It's really about coaching.  A great coach at USC, Michigan, Notre Dame or any other big time program would be contenders for the playoffs and NCs.  At Arkansas a great coach will get you 10 and 11 wins and possibly a playoff picture every now and then.  Coaching is the difference for all schools.  A great coach will win a lot at any school.  A great coach at a top tier program will get you into the playoffs and into NCs a lot.

This^^^. Remember when mighty Alabama had down years between the Bear and Saban, Texas after Mac Brown, Notre Dame after Lou Holtz, Michigan, Ohio State, Florida after Bo S, Woody Hayes, and Urban Meyers, respectively. I could throw in USCw and Penn State but those teams had sanctions after Pete Carrol and Joe Paterno left. I could go on and on but here is my point.

Storied programs will suffer when they do not have the right coaches. Sure, getting the talent is a vital part but getting the right coach is even more important. An interesting thing to me was hearing very recently during the Super Bowl that New England's' roster consisted mostly of players that were three star recruits when entering college. This demonstrates the value of the coaching staff when that team is recognized as the best in all of football for that year yet their players were rated no higher than Arkansas' roster when recruited for college ball.

theFlyingHog

Quote from: hogman64 on July 23, 2017, 01:48:43 pm
there is a commitment to being middle of the road in the SEC and a commitment to keeping the SEC revenue and booster donations gravy train running so that we can pay out a lot of money to a lot of people, build a lot of new stuff and update a lot of stuff... all of which no where near puts in a position to win the SEC.  There is no commitment to winning an SEC championship, just a commitment to keep the Hog fans believing we can win one...
And if our facilities were terrible you'd be the first to complain.

Tell me, what does Long need to do right now to make this the program you want it to be? I want depth here, not just "fire Bielema and quit himself". If Long were the perfect AD in your eyes, what would he be doing right now to make you happy?

GuvHog

Quote from: theFlyingHog on July 23, 2017, 01:54:02 pm
And if our facilities were terrible you'd be the first to complain.

Tell me, what does Long need to do right now to make this the program you want it to be? I want depth here, not just "fire Bielema and quit himself". If Long were the perfect AD in your eyes, what would he be doing right now to make you happy?

I'll answer that: Right now, all I want Jeff  Long to do is leave Bret Bielema alone to do his job. Firing him right before fall practice begins would be an outrageously idiotic move (Unless, of course, CBB pulls a Hugh Freeze which he most certainly will not do). A move like that would have the Hogs facing another "Smiley" type season. No way, no sir.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

GuvHog

Quote from: Hoginsavga on July 22, 2017, 10:03:12 pm
And so am I trapped in the 1960s. It was a wonderful time to be a Razorback Fan. So was the 70s' and 80's. Based on one of your previous posts I understand you are only 32 years old so you don't understand the glory years many of us "old timers" experienced. If you did you would never disparage what Frank Broyles, Lou Holtz and Ken Hatfield did as Razorback coaches. Sure it was a different time and era but you have to understand that those coaches were up against pretty salty opponents as well and won their share.

TCU, Rice, Texass, SMU(cheaters) Houston and A&M all had good to great teams during the 60s'. As a matter of fact, three SWC teams were ranked 1,2, and 3 at one point during one season during the sixties. The Hogs were one of those three teams. So you cannot simply brush aside the accomplishments achieved by some of our wonderful history because you are too young to understand.

Yes, I understand we are in a different time and era and it's easy to say we just cannot do any better. But don't tell that to coaches like Chris Peterson at Washington. Not to the administration at Michigan, Texas or other schools that will not accept mediocrity. Keep in mind that that from 1959 through the eighties we were not too far behind those schools in regard to football recognition.

So be critical if you wish but some of us have very fond memories of what Razorback football meant for three decades and it is very difficult to let go of that history. One thing you will never see from me is to tell a Razorback fan to go root for another team simply because that fan had great memories of what that coach did for the Razorbacks. We may hold different opinions of what should be done but that doesn't make any of us less of a fan.

Very, very well said. Great Post!!
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

AirWarren

Quote from: hogman64 on July 23, 2017, 01:48:43 pm
there is a commitment to being middle of the road in the SEC and a commitment to keeping the SEC revenue and booster donations gravy train running so that we can pay out a lot of money to a lot of people, build a lot of new stuff and update a lot of stuff... all of which no where near puts in a position to win the SEC.  There is no commitment to winning an SEC championship, just a commitment to keep the Hog fans believing we can win one...

Save it. I've been believing we would win an SEC title since I was a kid.

Hasn't happened.

AirWarren

Quote from: theFlyingHog on July 23, 2017, 01:54:02 pm
And if our facilities were terrible you'd be the first to complain.

Tell me, what does Long need to do right now to make this the program you want it to be? I want depth here, not just "fire Bielema and quit himself". If Long were the perfect AD in your eyes, what would he be doing right now to make you happy?

Fans like that guy are a joke. All the answers but none of them are worth a crap.

tophawg19

Quote from: HiggiePiggy on July 23, 2017, 01:17:27 pm
It's really about coaching.  A great coach at USC, Michigan, Notre Dame or any other big time program would be contenders for the playoffs and NCs.  At Arkansas a great coach will get you 10 and 11 wins and possibly a playoff picture every now and then.  Coaching is the difference for all schools.  A great coach will win a lot at any school.  A great coach at a top tier program will get you into the playoffs and into NCs a lot. 
Do you not understand that everyone of those schools keep hiring the next big name coach and throwing big money at them. Texas hired Strong , Notre Dame hired Kelley , USC took a risk but all these teams are in the hottest recruiting areas possible yet are still average at best. it's just  a really tough world out there now . Look at Georgia , Florida ,Auburn and Tennessee. they all hired the hot names and are still struggling as well. It's not just the Hot coach because everyone has them. It's about the staff, players and finding a plan to build on. We are all trying and fighting the same battles .The only real edge is cheating or the perfect firestorm like Bama which may be some of both
if you ain't a hawg you ain't chitlins

jkstock04

Quote from: ricepig on July 23, 2017, 07:55:10 am
What?? I've read post after post from you that we can't compete because of talent, now we can?
Quote from: ricepig on July 23, 2017, 07:55:10 am
What?? I've read post after post from you that we can't compete because of talent, now we can?
Supposedly, this is the deepest and most talented team we have had in modern times. If that is true, the low expectations for this team this year make zero sense. Something doesn't add up.

If we truly are this talented and deep (in comparison to our past teams) like so many claim...we should be talking about 10+ wins this year. If not, we have some major coaching deficiencies.
Thanks for the F Shack. 

Love,

Dirty Mike and the Boys

ricepig

Quote from: jkstock04 on July 24, 2017, 06:24:16 am
Supposedly, this is the deepest and most talented team we have had in modern times. If that is true, the low expectations for this team this year make zero sense. Something doesn't add up.

If we truly are this talented and deep (in comparison to our past teams) like so many claim...we should be talking about 10+ wins this year. If not, we have some major coaching deficiencies.

Wouldn't that be relative to our competitors, maybe they are the deepest and most talented in modern times?

jkstock04

Quote from: ricepig on July 24, 2017, 06:42:42 am
Wouldn't that be relative to our competitors, maybe they are the deepest and most talented in modern times?
I'm sure someone like Muskogee could dive in study it and make that argument somehow. But on the other hand a quick look may argue the SEC is down in comparison to past years.
Thanks for the F Shack. 

Love,

Dirty Mike and the Boys

 

ricepig

Quote from: jkstock04 on July 24, 2017, 07:23:17 am
I'm sure someone like Muskogee could dive in study it and make that argument somehow. But on the other hand a quick look may argue the SEC is down in comparison to past years.

I'm pretty sure the recruiting rankings aren't.

jkstock04

Quote from: ricepig on July 24, 2017, 09:31:38 am
I'm pretty sure the recruiting rankings aren't.
Ya recruiting rankings have remained basically the same the past few years. Bamas and Auburns of the league remain in the top 10-15.

What I'm saying is this is (supposedly) the deepest and most talented roster we have had in modern times. That's saying a lot. With supposed less talent and depth like 2006 and 2010 we had 10 win seasons. You can't have it both ways...If we are really this deep and talented there is no reason for the low expectations this year....unless it falls directly on the coaches and they are inept.
Thanks for the F Shack. 

Love,

Dirty Mike and the Boys

hogman64

Quote from: theFlyingHog on July 23, 2017, 01:54:02 pm
And if our facilities were terrible you'd be the first to complain.

Tell me, what does Long need to do right now to make this the program you want it to be? I want depth here, not just "fire Bielema and quit himself". If Long were the perfect AD in your eyes, what would he be doing right now to make you happy?

I didn't say Long was or was  not the perfect AD.  I have come to realize we are what we are, so rather than being committed to winning
the SEC like a few SEC schools are, in my opinion we are committed more to keeping hope alive which drives the revenue cycle.  I am not even saying we are in a position to be committed to winning the SEC  , we aren't  , that would probably mean cheating and the Ole Miss syndrome.  I like  the way we approach it  as opposed to all out cheating.........looking back at 25 year's results in the SEC tells me all I need to know about where we stand as a football program in the SEC......yes at times long term trends change , but competing against schools with much larger budgets and bigger name brands make that unlikely. 

ricepig

Quote from: jkstock04 on July 24, 2017, 11:59:36 am
Ya recruiting rankings have remained basically the same the past few years. Bamas and Auburns of the league remain in the top 10-15.

What I'm saying is this is (supposedly) the deepest and most talented roster we have had in modern times. That's saying a lot. With supposed less talent and depth like 2006 and 2010 we had 10 win seasons. You can't have it both ways...If we are really this deep and talented there is no reason for the low expectations this year....unless it falls directly on the coaches and they are inept.

Again, our depth and talent has to be taken in consideration with our SEC brethren, if you can't see that, then it's a wasted effort. Are you saying we have better talent than we had comparatively with our SEC brethren in 2006 and 2010? How many did we have on the pre-season SEC teams in those years as compared to the 3 this year?

jkstock04

Quote from: ricepig on July 24, 2017, 12:13:07 pm
Again, our depth and talent has to be taken in consideration with our SEC brethren, if you can't see that, then it's a wasted effort. Are you saying we have better talent than we had comparatively with our SEC brethren in 2006 and 2010? How many did we have on the pre-season SEC teams in those years as compared to the 3 this year?
Once again, Bama, LSU, Florida, Tennessee, etc smoke us in recruiting now just like they did back 5 or 10 years ago. Yes supposedly we have more talent now. Bielema has recruited better on paper than Nutt and Petrino. More importantly is depth...we supposedly have quality depth unlike ever before.

I do not know about the SEC preseason picks back then...I'm just telling you what I have read on here by the reputable people. And if what they say is true (deeper and more talented than ever before) it doesn't make sense for expectations to be so low this year. We have 3 gimmes on the non conference schedule. TCU at home...Ole Miss is falling apart. Technically those should be 5 automatic wins right there if we are this good.
Thanks for the F Shack. 

Love,

Dirty Mike and the Boys

ricepig

Quote from: jkstock04 on July 24, 2017, 01:07:50 pm
Once again, Bama, LSU, Florida, Tennessee, etc smoke us in recruiting now just like they did back 5 or 10 years ago. Yes supposedly we have more talent now. Bielema has recruited better on paper than Nutt and Petrino. More importantly is depth...we supposedly have quality depth unlike ever before.

I do not know about the SEC preseason picks back then...I'm just telling you what I have read on here by the reputable people. And if what they say is true (deeper and more talented than ever before) it doesn't make sense for expectations to be so low this year. We have 3 gimmes on the non conference schedule. TCU at home...Ole Miss is falling apart. Technically those should be 5 automatic wins right there if we are this good.

I suspect those are 5 automatic wins, don't you? Who's expectations are so low?

jkstock04

Quote from: ricepig on July 24, 2017, 06:14:11 pm
I suspect those are 5 automatic wins, don't you? Who's expectations are so low?
Pretty much everyone...on a national scale and locally as well. Most unanticipated season I've ever seen. If the Hogs come out this year as a hot team on track to win 10 games it'll be the #1 shock and surprise story in all of college football for the year.
Thanks for the F Shack. 

Love,

Dirty Mike and the Boys

ricepig

Quote from: jkstock04 on July 24, 2017, 07:05:53 pm
Pretty much everyone...on a national scale and locally as well. Most unanticipated season I've ever seen. If the Hogs come out this year as a hot team on track to win 10 games it'll be the #1 shock and surprise story in all of college football for the year.
Well, Bama, LSU, Auburn, and aTm out recruit us every year, so 8-4 should be the best record in your line of thought, correct?

jkstock04

Quote from: ricepig on July 24, 2017, 08:15:59 pm
Well, Bama, LSU, Auburn, and aTm out recruit us every year, so 8-4 should be the best record in your line of thought, correct?
I'm of the opinion coaching and scheming matter, especially at Arkansas...and to me we are recruiting on par now with how we have always recruited since being in the SEC (yes I realize that's not a popular opinion). Under Bielema, I'm afraid 8 wins is our ceiling. 
Thanks for the F Shack. 

Love,

Dirty Mike and the Boys

ricepig

Quote from: jkstock04 on July 24, 2017, 11:59:09 pm
I'm of the opinion coaching and scheming matter, especially at Arkansas...and to me we are recruiting on par now with how we have always recruited since being in the SEC (yes I realize that's not a popular opinion). Under Bielema, I'm afraid 8 wins is our ceiling. 

Considering that's about our average, could be right. So, you think we need a HUNH offense to compete?

jkstock04

Quote from: ricepig on July 25, 2017, 09:48:00 am
Considering that's about our average, could be right. So, you think we need a HUNH offense to compete?
I think it would be nice to at least have a variation of it in the play book. Or an offense that seriously utilizes a dual threat qb. Which teams have had the most success against Bama?
Thanks for the F Shack. 

Love,

Dirty Mike and the Boys

goodguytex

Quote from: jkstock04 on July 25, 2017, 01:54:49 pm
I think it would be nice to at least have a variation of it in the play book. Or an offense that seriously utilizes a dual threat qb. Which teams have had the most success against Bama?
You do realize Allen was the top QB in the conference last year, right? Our problem was and has been defense, special teams. We had Oline issues last year too. We aren't really having any major issues on offense with Enos as OC. We have to get the other issues fixed. Having HUNH in our offensive playbook won't fix those other issues.