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UNC Basically Tells NCAA to Take a Flying Leap

Started by NaturalStateReb, May 26, 2017, 10:51:31 am

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NaturalStateReb

"It's a trap!"--Houston Nutt and Admiral Ackbar, although Ackbar never called that play or ate that frito pie.

phadedhawg

Seems like a pretty hollow argument.  It's not an athletics issue because they let all their students cheat in the same manner. 


 

phadedhawg

Still i give them better than even odds they will get away with it.  It's UNC...

daBoar

Quote from: phadedhawg on May 26, 2017, 03:02:55 pm
Seems like a pretty hollow argument.  It's not an athletics issue because they let all their students cheat in the same manner. 


Hollow or not; isn't cheating "cheating"?

Hawghiggs

 I hope the NCAA hands them their a$$. Fake classes and fake grades. What a bunch of BS.

sowmonella

Coach Freeze and Ole Miss are waiting to see if it works.
Not trying to brag or make anyone jealous but I can still fit into the same pair of socks I wore in high school.
Proud member since August 2003

arkmark

Would seem that the reasonable response from the NCAA would be to ban UNC, as a member institution, from participation in any NCAA sanctioned sport.  The university is  providing a fraudulent academic program to falsely show student academic progress where none exists.  This creates a competitive advantage for the universities athletic teams by taking the expectation away of being a student from the expectation of being a student/athlete.  Only student/athletes are eligible to participate in NCAA sports.  The UNC response confirms all of  the above.  Throw it right back into their arrogant face.

Dark Helmet Hog

So, according to UNC, the best way to cheat is make the benefit available to the entire student body. To really justify it, make sure the percent of athletes is smaller than the non-athletes. Nice.

LZH

Quote from: Dark Helmet Hog on May 26, 2017, 04:54:46 pm
So, according to UNC, the best way to cheat is make the benefit available to the entire student body. To really justify it, make sure the percent of athletes is smaller than the non-athletes. Nice.

I agree. If this was thought out in advance knowing they would probably skate if they used this defense after being caught I think it's brilliant. I don't have any use for the NCAA anymore anyway, so when a school tries its hand at something this nowadays, I am almost rooting for the school to stick it to The Man.

Sivad


PorkSoda

Quote from: LZH on May 26, 2017, 05:19:37 pm
I agree. If this was thought out in advance knowing they would probably skate if they used this defense after being caught I think it's brilliant. I don't have any use for the NCAA anymore anyway, so when a school tries its hand at something this nowadays, I am almost rooting for the school to stick it to The Man.
the NCAA isn't really an "outside" entity aka "the man".  it is just all the member schools coming together to agree on the rules they will all play by.
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity." ― Edgar Allan Poe
"If quantum mechanics hasn't profoundly shocked you, you haven't understood it yet. Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real." – Niels Bohr
"A mind stretched to a new idea, never returns to its original dimensions" ~ Oliver Wendell Holmes
Quote from: PonderinHog on August 07, 2023, 06:37:15 pmYeah, we're all here, but we ain't all there.

LZH

Quote from: PorkSoda on May 26, 2017, 07:06:14 pm
the NCAA isn't really an "outside" entity aka "the man".  it is just all the member schools coming together to agree on the rules they will all play by.

Sure, and we also know they are woefully impotent when dealing with some programs and false-flag crusaders when dealing with others.

PorkRinds

Well, the North Carolina vo-tech school for the deaf and blind is going to regret this decision. The NCAA will show them.

 

LZH

Quote from: PorkRinds on May 26, 2017, 07:59:06 pm
Well, the North Carolina vo-tech school for the deaf and blind is going to regret this decision. The NCAA will show them.

^^^^

PorkSoda

naturally the bigger more powerful schools have more influence, while the smaller ones are along for the ride.  the big boys all agree to let things be swept under the rug for the sake of maintaining the brand name.  the NCAA has no bite because its the foxes guarding the hen house.

the NCAA is selling a product, that product is college football games.  the rules are essentially for show, so that people believe its a fair fight.  but in reality they aren't going to do anything that hurts the product that people want to see.
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity." ― Edgar Allan Poe
"If quantum mechanics hasn't profoundly shocked you, you haven't understood it yet. Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real." – Niels Bohr
"A mind stretched to a new idea, never returns to its original dimensions" ~ Oliver Wendell Holmes
Quote from: PonderinHog on August 07, 2023, 06:37:15 pmYeah, we're all here, but we ain't all there.

jbcarol

Curated SEC Infotainment and aggregated college sports updates where it just means more on Hogville.net

12247

The NCAA based their model on the Federal Government System.  Thousands of rules, all based on judgement.  All based on floating rules that can mean and be defined different each and every time.  The big difference is based on the unwritten rule of Power, Wealth and Position.   If you are without Power, Wealth or Position, you cooked.  If you have 1 or 2 of the 3, you looking good.  If you have all 3, you are untouchable.

WooPigFarm


The Kig

Quote from: 12247 on May 29, 2017, 12:47:56 pm
The NCAA based their model on the Federal Government System.  Thousands of rules, all based on judgement.  All based on floating rules that can mean and be defined different each and every time.  The big difference is based on the unwritten rule of Power, Wealth and Position.   If you are without Power, Wealth or Position, you cooked.  If you have 1 or 2 of the 3, you looking good.  If you have all 3, you are untouchable.

Pretty much this.  I have mixed feelings.  Certainly, it is wrong to cheat.  However, when the very system set up to regulate and penalize infractions is flawed, the end result is certain schools flaunting their actions to the paper tiger. 

The NCAA needs to be gutted and schools need to find a new system that they will actually abide by. 
Poker Porker

PorkSoda

Quote from: The Kig on May 29, 2017, 01:40:49 pm
Pretty much this.  I have mixed feelings.  Certainly, it is wrong to cheat.  However, when the very system set up to regulate and penalize infractions is flawed, the end result is certain schools flaunting their actions to the paper tiger. 

The NCAA needs to be gutted and schools need to find a new system that they will actually abide by. 
how would a new system not be a mirror image of the NCAA?  it would still be all schools comeing together and agreeing on rules, and those with the most money and power will have the most influence.  it is what it is.  its not a perfect system, but it is what we have.  instead of complaining, just be glad we have football to watch.  its not quite WWF yet.
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity." ― Edgar Allan Poe
"If quantum mechanics hasn't profoundly shocked you, you haven't understood it yet. Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real." – Niels Bohr
"A mind stretched to a new idea, never returns to its original dimensions" ~ Oliver Wendell Holmes
Quote from: PonderinHog on August 07, 2023, 06:37:15 pmYeah, we're all here, but we ain't all there.

East Clintwood

Quote from: PorkSoda on May 29, 2017, 05:14:29 pm
how would a new system not be a mirror image of the NCAA?  it would still be all schools comeing together and agreeing on rules, and those with the most money and power will have the most influence.  it is what it is.  its not a perfect system, but it is what we have.  instead of complaining, just be glad we have football to watch.  its not quite WWF yet.


They could always ask congress for help and oversight.  ;)
Any dog can be a seeing eye dog if you don't care where you're going.

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tusksincolorado

Screw it! I'm an old angry male, live with it!

Rzbakfromwaybak

Quote from: arkmark on May 26, 2017, 04:36:19 pm
Would seem that the reasonable response from the NCAA would be to ban UNC, as a member institution, from participation in any NCAA sanctioned sport.  The university is  providing a fraudulent academic program to falsely show student academic progress where none exists.  This creates a competitive advantage for the universities athletic teams by taking the expectation away of being a student from the expectation of being a student/athlete.  Only student/athletes are eligible to participate in NCAA sports.  The UNC response confirms all of  the above.  Throw it right back into their arrogant face.

Exactly.  Reminds me of a big stakes poker game, & calling an obvious bluff.

Maybe UNC should have claimed their academic program was hacked by the Russians ??
Arkansas born, Arkansas bred, when I die I'll be a Razorback dead.

The Kig

Quote from: PorkSoda on May 29, 2017, 05:14:29 pm
how would a new system not be a mirror image of the NCAA?  it would still be all schools comeing together and agreeing on rules, and those with the most money and power will have the most influence.  it is what it is.  its not a perfect system, but it is what we have.  instead of complaining, just be glad we have football to watch.  its not quite WWF yet.

I wasn't complaining... In fact I stated that it was a simple function of the system we built.  However, to your point, it may well become a mirror image over time, but hitting the reset button periodically at least clears out some of the corrupted files...for a time.  The main difference between now and when the NCAA came into being is information... the interwebs.  All ties would be exposed if they reset and brought people in.
Poker Porker

 

TheGrove68

Golden rule....he who has the Gold makes the rules...UNC will be untouched. Every program should take this tactic hence forth, just not cow tow to the other more powerful member schools. It's usually the Blue Bloods that float by unscathed, USC/Miami exceptions they like to get private schools besides ND. They attack P5 mid-tier programs(see Ole Miss,Okie st.,Ariz.st etc.) the most and who cares about the G5's.

It's a rigged system to keep the Blue Bloods at the top and to give the illusion that the other P5 could move into that realm but the truth is Programs like Ark./Mizzou/Ole Miss., SC., Okie st., Ariz. st. Illini etc. are watched and punished. While UNC/Bama/UF/Ohio st./ND etc. walk away scott free.
The Grove...  Home of Don Faurot

holeinthewall

UNC is fully in the right in its stance that it wasn't just for athletes and should tell the NCAA to * off. This will end up in court.

QuoteIn all three cases, outside parties provided the majority of the revelations: The 'escort queen' who wrote a book about Louisville; the multiple individuals who fragged Ole Miss offensive lineman Laremy Tunsil; and the cascade of internal and external investigations that got to the bottom of nearly two decades of academic fraud at UNC.

This is what is telling. The NCAA turns a blind eye to all the cheating going on today as almost every program is cheating in some way to get top players. Unless someone comes out publicly the NCAA could care less about the cheating as long as the $$$$ keeps rolling in.  Then it is all about them saving face and coming up with "answers" to the accusations.

jlhogfan

Quote from: TheGrove68 on June 02, 2017, 04:12:52 am
Golden rule....he who has the Gold makes the rules...UNC will be untouched. Every program should take this tactic hence forth, just not cow tow to the other more powerful member schools. It's usually the Blue Bloods that float by unscathed, USC/Miami exceptions they like to get private schools besides ND. They attack P5 mid-tier programs(see Ole Miss,Okie st.,Ariz.st etc.) the most and who cares about the G5's.

It's a rigged system to keep the Blue Bloods at the top and to give the illusion that the other P5 could move into that realm but the truth is Programs like Ark./Mizzou/Ole Miss., SC., Okie st., Ariz. st. Illini etc. are watched and punished. While UNC/Bama/UF/Ohio st./ND etc. walk away scott free.

USC, Ohio St, Penn St. were recently punished in football.  The NCAA is not in the Death Penalty business. 

PorkSoda

Quote from: jlhogfan on June 02, 2017, 07:55:47 pm
USC, Ohio St, Penn St. were recently punished in football.  The NCAA is not in the Death Penalty business. 
and honestly none of this really deserves a death penalty.  that tactic is counter productive.

"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity." ― Edgar Allan Poe
"If quantum mechanics hasn't profoundly shocked you, you haven't understood it yet. Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real." – Niels Bohr
"A mind stretched to a new idea, never returns to its original dimensions" ~ Oliver Wendell Holmes
Quote from: PonderinHog on August 07, 2023, 06:37:15 pmYeah, we're all here, but we ain't all there.

onebadrubi

Quote from: jlhogfan on June 02, 2017, 07:55:47 pm
USC, Ohio St, Penn St. were recently punished in football.  The NCAA is not in the Death Penalty business.

I think ANYONE with any knowledge of the USC and penn st deals would say they completely botched those!!!!

Let's talk Ohio state for a minute, you know the school were the dang dea/FBI/atf whichever one was involved in investigating players?  Where when all said and done they had a pretty big thing going on, but the NCAA let them play in a sugar bowl so long as those players "promised" to come back their next years to be punished????  Psshh what a joke.  And they didn't come back. 

Yeah don't even try, your theory and examples failed. 

jlhogfan

Quote from: onebadrubi on June 03, 2017, 09:13:15 am
I think ANYONE with any knowledge of the USC and penn st deals would say they completely botched those!!!!

Let's talk Ohio state for a minute, you know the school were the dang dea/FBI/atf whichever one was involved in investigating players?  Where when all said and done they had a pretty big thing going on, but the NCAA let them play in a sugar bowl so long as those players "promised" to come back their next years to be punished????  Psshh what a joke.  And they didn't come back. 

Yeah don't even try, your theory and examples failed. 

How did they botch those; because they still have football teams??  You guys think the NCAA should destroy these football programs of these universities.  I disagree, USC was handled perfectly if you ask me (I know that is not a popular opinion), Pete Carroll is a slime ball, but as far as the NCAA and USC are concerned I think it was handled appropriately.  What were you expecting to happen at Ohio St.?  Who cares about them playing in the Sugar Bowl, the university felt the effects.

onebadrubi

Quote from: jlhogfan on June 03, 2017, 10:35:31 am
How did they botch those; because they still have football teams??  You guys think the NCAA should destroy these football programs of these universities.  I disagree, USC was handled perfectly if you ask me (I know that is not a popular opinion), Pete Carroll is a slime ball, but as far as the NCAA and USC are concerned I think it was handled appropriately.  What were you expecting to happen at Ohio St.?  Who cares about them playing in the Sugar Bowl, the university felt the effects.

Umm you didn't keep up with the pen st deal did you?  They penalized them then came back and gave them half the penalties back, and said well we should t have done that then gave a lot of the penalty money back.  They are still (the NCAA) trying to make up for it. 

onebadrubi

Quote from: jlhogfan on June 03, 2017, 10:35:31 am
How did they botch those; because they still have football teams??  You guys think the NCAA should destroy these football programs of these universities.  I disagree, USC was handled perfectly if you ask me (I know that is not a popular opinion), Pete Carroll is a slime ball, but as far as the NCAA and USC are concerned I think it was handled appropriately.  What were you expecting to happen at Ohio St.?  Who cares about them playing in the Sugar Bowl, the university felt the effects.

Oh and the NCAA basically let the USC offenders have no repercussions and burried the school, then said it was wrong how much they hurt the school when the offenders were gone. 

I can't even respond to you thinking Ohio st was an appropriate way to discipline a program breaking rules.  It was pathetic and took some serious thought to protect investments, money, and upper echelon program to come up with the BS Penalty they did.

And to note, I don't think they should have nuked any of the programs, well I wouldn't have argued if they told penn st to shut it down.  Ohio st and USC though were not in need of the hammer

jbcarol

Curated SEC Infotainment and aggregated college sports updates where it just means more on Hogville.net

LRRandy

Quote from: onebadrubi on June 03, 2017, 09:13:15 am
I think ANYONE with any knowledge of the USC and penn st deals would say they completely botched those!!!!

Let's talk Ohio state for a minute, you know the school were the dang dea/FBI/atf whichever one was involved in investigating players?  Where when all said and done they had a pretty big thing going on, but the NCAA let them play in a sugar bowl so long as those players "promised" to come back their next years to be punished????  Psshh what a joke.  And they didn't come back.

Yeah don't even try, your theory and examples failed.
the joke is you posting a fictitious account of what happened. While it is true Pryor didn't come back Devier Posey ( leading receiver) sat out 10 games playing in the last 2. Boom Herron (leading rusher) sat out 6 games and Mike Adams (starting left tackle) sat out 5 games.
This is fun, isn't it.

jbcarol

Curated SEC Infotainment and aggregated college sports updates where it just means more on Hogville.net

Inhogswetrust

If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

jbcarol

Curated SEC Infotainment and aggregated college sports updates where it just means more on Hogville.net

jbcarol

Curated SEC Infotainment and aggregated college sports updates where it just means more on Hogville.net