BREAKING: Amauri Hardy, 6-2 PG and 2017 ESPN 4*, confirms Hogs OFFERED today

[Hawg Red]

It turned out to be a dumb decision to redshirt Patton and Olynyk.  Neither school got four years on the court from either.  They might as well have had their services in limited roles during the redshirt year.  I'm not sure many four-year players want to walk in the door knowing they are going to be there five years.  From a coach's perspective with early departures and transfers being common it's not without risks to waste a scholarship on a guy in a suit.  If you can get a player to buy-in to a redshirt as a frosh, that might head off a transfer. Nonetheless, how many guys are going to sign these days when you tell them that you have zero playing time for them next season?  Somehow Wisconsin has developed a culture of red-shirting, but I doubt that they are going to get four years out of Happ. Their success has been helped by five-year seniors, though.  It's a great idea in theory, but it's not like the coach can do it unilaterally.

I don't know who stated the mission was ever to get the player to stay until their eligibility is out. When players are good, they will go pro. We're seeing that even when they are just kinda good they'll go pro. You limit those players' successes over more years and you likely have coaches that have experienced less success in those years. It's better to build on success seasons, so I don't think McDermott or Few are unhappy with their decisions. Nor do I think Greg Gard will be unhappy if Ethan Happ turns out too enough to go pro early.

[King Kong]

Looks like this fairly successful P-5 program likes to RS: http://www.uwbadgers.com/roster.aspx?path=mbball

and this one: http://www.virginiasports.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/va-m-baskbl-mtt.html

in fact, Virginia just rs'ed De'Andre Hunter, a player we tried to recruit.

What's interesting is that both of these programs are what I'd call "system" programs, like Anderson at Arkansas and don't necessarily bag the highest rated classes every year.

In regards to Wisconsin Ferris, Moesh and Schlundt are walk one. Pritzel medical rs.

Oddly Hill and Showalter redshirted as sophomores. Hill was pissed about it and recently transferred. Showalter also started off as a walk on

http://host.madison.com/sports/college/basketball/men/badgers-men-s-basketball-sophomore-guard-jordan-hill-decides-to/article_b244ad47-127e-543e-aecb-35d58d97c97a.html

[Hawg Red]

I'm waiting for you to provide PROOF of MULTIPLE major programs use RS in college BB.  You can't because it's not true!

I already have, bub.

Tai Wynyard, Kentucky
Keith Stone, Florida
Mamadi Diakite, Virgina
De'Andre Hunter, Virginia (credit to Razorod)

I'm being told I'm not allowed to include players from major programs like Gonzaga and Creighton, but I mentioned two very prominent examples for those schools.

How many is "multiple" for you?

[niels_boar]

I don't know who stated the mission was ever to get the player to stay until their eligibility is out. When players are good, they will go pro. We're seeing that even when they are just kinda good they'll go pro. You limit those players' successes over more years and you likely have coaches that have experienced less success in those years. It's better to build on success seasons, so I don't think McDermott or Few are unhappy with their decisions. Nor do I think Greg Gard will be unhappy if Ethan Happ turns out too enough to go pro early.

What is the point from the school's or player's perspective if they don't stay to complete their eligibility?  From the program's perspective they only win if they get the services of a fifth-year senior. That's why talented frosh are not redshirted even in football.  The coach knows they aren't going to stay for the fifth year in any case.  You really think McDermott thought it was smart in hindsight to have an NIT team with a lottery pick in street clothes? That would be delusional.

[HOGINTENNESSEE]

I'm being told I'm not allowed to include players from major programs like Gonzaga and Creighton, but I mentioned two very prominent examples for those schools.

Well, to be fair in his original post that you disagreed with, He specifically stated P5 schools.

[Razorod]

In regards to Wisconsin Ferris, Moesh and Schlundt are walk one. Pritzel medical rs.

Oddly Hill and Showalter redshirted as sophomores. Hill was pissed about it and recently transferred. Showalter also started off as a walk on

http://host.madison.com/sports/college/basketball/men/badgers-men-s-basketball-sophomore-guard-jordan-hill-decides-to/article_b244ad47-127e-543e-aecb-35d58d97c97a.html

I know. It's not prevalent in cbb, but perhaps a bit more common than we sometimes realize.

[HoopS]

It is few and far between. And not every player who maybe should redshirt will agree to it.

You'd need to really know how things played out between Thompson and his family and Mike to know if was even possible. I know some want to look for ways to prove Mike made a mistake. Maybe he didn't even have a choice.

[FarmingtonFan]

Why can't this thread stay focused on discussing Hardy?  Maybe someone could start a pissing contest thread. It would. E a thousand pages line in two days.

[Hawg Red]

Well, to be fair in his original post that you disagreed with, He specifically stated P5 schools.

Which, as I stated, is a bit unfair to use when talking about basketball seeing as how the Big East is, without question, a major basketball conference. Doesn't have football teams. Losing football is the only thing that has changed it's perception but we're talking about basketball players.

[hawg1221]

I already have, bub.

Tai Wynyard, Kentucky
Keith Stone, Florida
Mamadi Diakite, Virgina
De'Andre Hunter, Virginia (credit to Razorod)

I'm being told I'm not allowed to include players from major programs like Gonzaga and Creighton, but I mentioned two very prominent examples for those schools.

How many is "multiple" for you?

Keith Stone? Hmmm. That name sounds familiar.

[niels_boar]

Why can't this thread stay focused on discussing Hardy?  Maybe someone could start a pissing contest thread. It would. E a thousand pages line in two days.

Probably the same reason that people don't make use of the scroll button on their mouse.

[FarmingtonFan]

Don't have a scroll button on my phone.

[Hawg Red]

What is the point from the school's or player's perspective if they don't stay to complete their eligibility?  From the program's perspective they only win if they get the services of a fifth-year senior. That's why talented frosh are not redshirted even in football.  The coach knows they aren't going to stay for the fifth year in any case.  You really think McDermott thought it was smart in hindsight to have an NIT team with a lottery pick in street clothes? That would be delusional.

From a player's perspective, they're trying to get better. Neither coach nor player knows that will happen in terms of going pro early when they make the decision to redshirt. You just can't predict that. You can only account for it as a possibility, but I'd say the logic there is, okay, you are losing the player earlier than you want (not trying to deny that the coach wants to keep the player as long as possible but they know how it goes). You have to figure if these guy is so good that he's projected in the early-to-mid first round, you probably have had a good season. In the case of Olynyk's and Patton's breakout years, things didn't quite go as they would have hoped. Gonzaga finished 32-3 and went undefeated in their conference, but got bounced in the Round of 32. They got upset as a 1 seed (they've been a 1 seed two times ever -- it was still a good season for them). For Creighton, they didn't as well (25-10, 10-8) but they have some key injuries around Patton that robbed them of their true potential. Both programs had their chances to have special seasons with these guys. But if you're redshirting a guy, you've likely not built around them. Both players had surprise seasons. Does not redshirting them improve your success? Tough to make an argument there. I wouldn't assume that you just push the production post-redshirt back to the redshirt year. The players needed that time to develop, so in the absence of that redshirt opportunity, they likely aren't nearly as good.

[azhog10]

I already have, bub.

Tai Wynyard, Kentucky
Keith Stone, Florida
Mamadi Diakite, Virgina
De'Andre Hunter, Virginia (credit to Razorod)

I'm being told I'm not allowed to include players from major programs like Gonzaga and Creighton, but I mentioned two very prominent examples for those schools.

How many is "multiple" for you?

No offense but some of these redshirted for academic reasons. Not the same thing as red shirting because they wanted to get better. At least two of those didn't meet the threshold to play right away as a freshman.

[Hawg Red]

No offense but some of these redshirted for academic reasons. Not the same thing as red shirting because they wanted to get better. At least two of those didn't meet the threshold to play right away as a freshman.

Stone, Wynyard, and Diakite did not redshirt for academic reasons. Razorod brought up Hunter, but it doesn't appear he was redshirted for academics, either.

None of these guys redshirted for academic reasons. Here are some sources:

http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/uva-basketball-tony-bennett-explains-redshirt-decisions/

http://www.gatorcountry.com/florida-gators-basketball/florida-gators-excited-potential-keith-stone/

http://www.streakingthelawn.com/virginia-cavaliers-basketball/2015/9/3/9251265/virginia-basketball-commit-mamadi-diakite-early-enroll-forward-redshirt

http://www.courier-journal.com/story/sports/college/kentucky/2016/03/12/uk-basketballs-wynyard-updates-status/81685942/

[jry04]

Stone, Wynyard, and Diakite did not redshirt for academic reasons. Razorod brought up Hunter.

To be fair, Wynyard and Diakite redshirted because they enrolled late. Diakite joined the team just before the season, and Wynyard joined the team in the 2nd semester with half the season over. If you are going to count them, then you should count Hamidou Diallo who joined UK mid-season but sat out because it didn't make sense to play.

[niels_boar]

Does not redshirting them improve your success? Tough to make an argument there. I wouldn't assume that you just push the production post-redshirt back to the redshirt year. The players needed that time to develop, so in the absence of that redshirt opportunity, they likely aren't nearly as good.

Sure, a soph is a better than a frosh. Bailey will be better next year than he was this year.  Did Arkansas have a better or worse chance at beating UNC this season because he did not redshirt?  You don't have to push the same level of play back a year for the team to be better.  More options are better than less.

I agree that you can't predict whether a player will develop or not.  The value of redshirting will depend on how the numbers work out on average.  If a high percentage of red-shirt players leave the program before their fifth year for whatever reason, I guarantee you that a coach will give up trying to encourage red-shirting.  If they are getting a high percentage staying for the fifth year, the coach will consider it a successful strategy.

You're losing credibility if you are arguing that Patton redshirting turned out to be a wise decision for Creighton.  Here's what McDermott thought at the time of the announcement:

McDermott said repeatedly during the past weeks that Patton was making a redshirt decision difficult because of his ability to turn in jaw-dropping plays in practice.

"He thinks it is best for him,'' McDermott said, "and that was a huge factor in the decision.''

It sounded like Patton was more eager for him to redshirt than McDermott.  Patton was awfully skinny, but he might have provided enough quality minutes off the bench to get that team out of the NIT and into the tourney.  In any case dressing out for games would not have hindered his progress for this past season.  All it meant was that Creighton got fewer minutes out of him than they could have otherwise. He didn't have to be a lottery pick as a true frosh to make that team deeper and more formidable.

[Hawg Red]

To be fair, Wynyard and Diakite redshirted because they enrolled late. Diakite joined the team just before the season, and Wynyard joined the team in the 2nd semester with half the season over. If you are going to count them, then you should count Hamidou Diallo who joined UK mid-season but sat out because it didn't make sense to play.

Okay, throw them out.

Kadeem Allen at Arizona
Trevor Cooney at Syracuse
Durand Johnson at Pittsburgh
Micah Thomas at Maryland
Joshua Tomaic at Maryland
Ethan Happ at Wisconsin

All players that have played recently and redshirted for developmental reasons.

[King Kong]

When I get time I will complete a list. I'll do P5 along with American, Big East and West Coast Conference. Which I expect the last 3 to have a much higher % of redshirt.

I probably won't do this past season because unfortunately some of the best information comes from the teams Websites and some won't be updated until next fall.

I'll try to do the 2015-2016 season and maybe the season before. I will do my best to exclude RS due to injury, walk-ons, or academic reasons

[azhog10]

Okay, throw them out.

Kadeem Allen at Arizona
Trevor Cooney at Syracuse
Durand Johnson at Pittsburgh
Micah Thomas at Maryland
Joshua Tomaic at Maryland
Ethan Happ at Wisconsin

All players that have played recently and redshirted for developmental reasons.

Kadeem was not for developmental reasons.

[azhog10]

Stone, Wynyard, and Diakite did not redshirt for academic reasons. Razorod brought up Hunter, but it doesn't appear he was redshirted for academics, either.

None of these guys redshirted for academic reasons. Here are some sources:

http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/uva-basketball-tony-bennett-explains-redshirt-decisions/

http://www.gatorcountry.com/florida-gators-basketball/florida-gators-excited-potential-keith-stone/

http://www.streakingthelawn.com/virginia-cavaliers-basketball/2015/9/3/9251265/virginia-basketball-commit-mamadi-diakite-early-enroll-forward-redshirt

http://www.courier-journal.com/story/sports/college/kentucky/2016/03/12/uk-basketballs-wynyard-updates-status/81685942/

Wyanard and Hunter were not for developmental reasons. I'm sure that's what they will tell a reporter. But for a fact that's not the case with Wynard.

[ShadowHawg]

Is that my belief? Can you show me where I said that?

Simply stating that the FACT that redshirting is being done, and being done effectively, at major programs.

Christ....

Seems to be. Why else would you keep complaining that we don't do it, so much so that you use derogatory religious comments.

Redshirting is a great idea. Train a guy up so he has the option of immediate eligibility upon transfer as a grad student in what should have been his most productive season for you. Solid strategy. Probably why you don't see it being done often.

[navyhog24]

Remember that time this thread was about Amauri Hardy? Good times...

I member

[batmanfan]

Amauri who?

Oh that guy we were all talking about before this d*** measuring contest started over to redshirt people or not.

[skinnypig]

According to McPherson Amauri said he will probably make a decision after visiting Memphis this week

[The_Bionic_Pig]

According to McPherson Amauri said he will probably make a decision after visiting Memphis this week

Unless he's keen on starting with little competition I'd say Arkansas is in very good shape...

[Hawg Red]

Seems to be. Why else would you keep complaining that we don't do it, so much so that you use derogatory religious comments.

Redshirting is a great idea. Train a guy up so he has the option of immediate eligibility upon transfer as a grad student in what should have been his most productive season for you. Solid strategy. Probably why you don't see it being done often.

Where did I complain that we don't redshirt people?

[Hawg Red]

Wyanard and Hunter were not for developmental reasons. I'm sure that's what they will tell a reporter. But for a fact that's not the case with Wynard.

Already acknowledged that with Wyanard. Prove it on Hunter.

[Hawg Red]

Kadeem was not for developmental reasons.

Okay. Prove it.

[rzrbackramsfan]

Unless he's keen on starting with little competition I'd say Arkansas is in very good shape...

fingers crossed

[Tusks]

Don't get some of these players.  I'd rather build my playing time up while going to the dance so when I'm a JR I've got tourney experience and if I show out then make the jump to pro after my JR. year.

Finishing under .500 at UNLV or TTech but playing tons of minutes doesn't really help me.  As a matter of fact if I play 3 years and never make it to post season I'd think that would hurt my chances at getting drafted.

Ive seen more than one player ride their march madness play to a better draft pick.  Can't say that if you don't go.

[azhog10]

Okay. Prove it.

:razorback:

[hogwood]

Agreed. It's the same problem we had with Zhaire Smith. . . . minutes. Granted, Hardy came for a visit and it seems to have gone well, but if it's a question of minutes, on paper, the Hog don't have a lot to give. Even our starters don't get a lot of mins compared to other schools.  Most of our starters averaged less than 25 Mins, where guys at UK or even lower teams like Texas had several starters who averaged over 30. Add to that the fact that there wasn't a single freshman this year that played significate mins (not one freshman averaged over 3 mins a game), and you can see why a top recruit with legit NBA aspirations might not want to come here even if it is the better team. Hell, Hazen was a solid 3-star recruit and played only 45 mins more for the Hogs than Glasper who didn't even get to see a game.

I honestly don't think you will get any real commitments from a top guard as long as Macon and Barford are undecided and there is no real guarantee of quality mins Freshman year.

There is never a guarantee of minutes to anyone on the team ever - especially not to a freshman! You have to earn that in practice. If you come in with that egotistical attitude you do not know what it means to be on a team and I wouldn't want that kind of player as a Hog. Mike does not reward that selfish perspective. I wouldn't either.

That said, there is plenty of playing time. If you work your butt off and are a good teammate Mike will put you in. Now that is a guarantee! Why couldn't Amauri get 15 minutes/game as the first PG off the bench? He's not going to find that in any other P5 conference. Plus we have a clear opportunity for him to be a starter as a sophomore - also not common in a P5 school. If Amauri is the player we have been raving about, and believes that himself, then there is no reason why he couldn't compete with Beard and Glasper for the backup PG spot. There is a great opportunity here for a young PG. We really don't even have a single PG on the team (Beard isn't true and Glasper hasn't played yet)! There isn't even that much competition. And the season after next the PG is absolutely wide open. He could be the starting PG for the next 3 years if he wants to stay that long. It is a ridiculous notion to not come to a school because you have to compete with other players. This is basketball! The game is about competition! That is how you get better! Why do you think all these kids go to UK and Duke? Well partly - to practice every day against good competition and play with good teammates!

If I was Amauri's grandpa I'd say "Kid, why can't you get playing time at Arkansas? Tell me why you can't get PT at a P5 school? Give me a list of why you can't play there." What would Amauri really have to say? "Oh there are these two players there that are better than me." Seriously just two? And they will be gone after this year? Learn from them, outwork them, push yourself. WTH, this is like the situation where any kind of cliche motivational stuff should be applicable. If you're not motivated to get PT here when there is a clear path to being a starter then go ahead and go to a Tiger High. I don't want you here.

Jeezus, kids these days piss me off. Grandpa rant over.

PS: This is not directed at Amauri. I do not know if this is his attitude or not regarding this situation. I'm just using this situation to complain about a larger problem in college basketball these days. No offense to Amauri or to the Hardy's whatsoever is intended.

[hawgfan4life]

Recruits that are wanting to get playing time with little to no competition are not the recruits we want for our program because they will want success the same way.  When things are tough and the position and team is having to claw and fight for everything, that type of player will give in and get you beat.  If any of these recruits fit that, good luck to them somewhere else. If not, hope they commit.

[ArkansasI]

On how many P5 teams does a player of Amauri's caliber have a reasonable expectation of substantial minutes as a freshman?  If several, more power to him. If few, maybe Amauri didn't find what he is looking for in Fayetteville.

[hogwood]

On how many P5 teams does a player of Amauri's caliber have a reasonable expectation of substantial minutes as a freshman?  If several, more power to him. If few, maybe Amauri didn't find what he is looking for in Fayetteville.

So evidently his top 4 are Arkansas, Georgia Tech, Memphis, and UNLV. Georgia Tech is a P5 school where he could expect minutes. Memphis and UNLV are not P5. We are in a better place than either of those programs. Looking at it objectively I certainly think he has the best opportunity to have the most success at Arkansas. We can be consistently in the top 3-4 in our conference every year from now on IMO. He will play with elite talent here (2017 class, 2018 class, and so on). There is a clear path to be a starter at his position. We are on an upward trajectory and he can be a notable PG on a nationally competitive team - being a key piece to making runs in the tourney surrounded by talented teammates.

Georgia Tech is in rebuild. They are also buried in the ACC. It will be hard to be successful there. So at least 2-3 years off making the tourney consistently IMO. Memphis is in complete rebuild mode. No end in sight, sub par conference. UNLV is pretty similar.

[HogCzar1]

On how many P5 teams does a player of Amauri's caliber have a reasonable expectation of substantial minutes as a freshman?  If several, more power to him. If few, maybe Amauri didn't find what he is looking for in Fayetteville.

It wouldn't surprise me to see him choose the school he visits last.

[zebradynasty]

It wouldn't surprise me to see him choose the school he visits last.

As I said before Macon and Barford are not really going to take this kids minutes IF he is a true PG. There is little in the way to stop a PG on the team next year from getting minutes. I agree with the previous post if he doesn't come here, lack of minutes won't be the cause. He may be looking for something else.

[ArkansasI]

So evidently his top 4 are Arkansas, Georgia Tech, Memphis, and UNLV. Georgia Tech is a P5 school where he could expect minutes. Memphis and UNLV are not P5. We are in a better place than either of those programs. Looking at it objectively I certainly think he has the best opportunity to have the most success at Arkansas. We can be consistently in the top 3-4 in our conference every year from now on IMO. He will play with elite talent here (2017 class, 2018 class, and so on). There is a clear path to be a starter at his position. We are on an upward trajectory and he can be a notable PG on a nationally competitive team - being a key piece to making runs in the tourney surrounded by talented teammates.

Georgia Tech is in rebuild. They are also buried in the ACC. It will be hard to be successful there. So at least 2-3 years off making the tourney consistently IMO. Memphis is in complete rebuild mode. No end in sight, sub par conference. UNLV is pretty similar.

Do you think Amauri sees things the way you describe?  If so, what keeps him from committing to Arkansas?  If not, what do you think he sees elsewhere?

I'm not sure if this matters any. I think we lost Amauri the moment he left campus. You don't build new relationships by testing them hard early.

Mike will find somebody to join us. Like all, I'm curious to learn who it will be.

[Hogs49ers]

Over the last decade, at Minnesota, Texas Tech, and Memphis, here are Tubby's averages:

18.8 wins, 14.4 losses overall (7.3 wins, 10.7 losses in conference)

4 NCAAT appearances, 3 of which they failed to make it out of the 1st round.  The furthest one of his teams has gone in the NCAAT over the last decade is the Round of 32.

Most wins:  23

4 20+ win seasons, all of which were at Minnesota.

Over that same decade, Mike Anderson's numbers at Missouri and Arkansas:

22.1 wins, 11.9 losses overall (9.6 wins, 7.4 losses in conference)

5 NCAAT appearances, all but one they got past the 1st round, one of which was an Elite Eight appearance.

Most wins:  31

I think someone should tweet this to Amauri's father, who believes that Tubby is a legendary coach.  I think he is trying to push his son to Memphis bc of Tubby.

[King Kong]

Hardy is currently on an official visit at UNLV. I know KM said it earlier. But now confirmed he has arrived

https://mobile.twitter.com/MikeGrimala

[Kevin McPherson]

Okay, let's start connecting some dots, folks ... a member of Hogville alerted me to this tweet, as well as the tweeter's opinion that Hardy will end up at UNLV ... like he did w/Arkansas staff and players, Hardy is now following a bunch of UNLV folks (is this guy making assumptions based on followers, or does he have info?) ... but also consider the possibility of a Cincinnati visit taking the place of the Memphis visit (see 2nd tweet, first time that Cincy was listed a finalist for Hardy, and Hardy retweeted it ... not likely, but remotely possible).

One last thing, and most imprortant to Hogs fans: The Barrett anouncement today at 4:30 will tell you all you need to know about the Hog staff's belief in their chances to land Hardy.

https://twitter.com/_JonahJordan/status/857285493981151232

https://twitter.com/jeffborzello/status/856907854606778368

[Pinto]

I pray the Hogs don't get burnt once again in this recruiting battle lol

[hawginbigd1]

Okay, let's start connecting some dots, folks ... a member of Hogville alerted me to this tweet, as well as the tweeter's opinion that Hardy will end up at UNLV ... like he did w/Arkansas staff and players, Hardy is now following a bunch of UNLV folks (is this guy making assumptions based on followers, or does he have info?) ... but also consider the possibility of a Cincinnati visit taking the place of the Memphis visit (see 2nd tweet, first time that Cincy was listed a finalist for Hardy, and Hardy retweeted it ... not likely, but remotely possible).

One last thing, and most imprortant to Hogs fans: The Barrett anouncement today at 4:30 will tell you all you need to know about the Hog staff's belief in their chances to land Hardy.

https://twitter.com/_JonahJordan/status/857285493981151232

https://twitter.com/jeffborzello/status/856907854606778368

I agree, because I don't think you take both in the same class with Hill right around the corner. Meaning even if we have an extra available spot we are not certain about.

[Kevin McPherson]

I pray the Hogs don't get burnt once again in this recruiting battle lol

Good news is Hogs have 2-3 guys they're on IF they let Shawkwon go and miss on Hardy ... plus, 3/4s of the class already signed by filling needs with quality ...

[NWAHog479]

What are the odds of us getting both Canadian boys and 1 walking on?

[Pinto]

What are the odds of us getting both Canadian boys and 1 walking on?

Would probably mean someone is for sure transferring out

[razorback1829]

Staff wasn't too impressed or enthused by the time Hardy came and played w the guys and for his visit. Interest cooled after his visit.  They feel better about some of the others that have come up for a visit. Just gotta stay tuned.

[King Kong]

What are the odds of us getting both Canadian boys and 1 walking on?

Zero

[NWAHog479]

Zero

I meant we get both guys, but only one gets a scholly