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Super tuning a baitcaster

Started by bondhue, August 28, 2016, 12:21:11 pm

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bondhue

I have been cleaning and repairing my reels for over 30 years.  I got started way back when because I could not afford to buy much equipment, and I like my stuff to work well.   I was given several old baitcasters a couple of years ago.  Abus, Shimanos, BPS Rick Clunn models.  I cleaned them all up and ordered the parts to fix them, and usually put in carbontex drag washers.

Fishing Bull the past two years has been frustrating, rewarding, then frustrating.  It has made me pay incredible attention to detail on baits, rods, electronics, and now reels.  Fishing with new friends has taught me a lot, especially that you had better be able to cast a long way as captain or co-angler, because these locals know what they are doing (some of them, at least) and they will outfish you more times than not.

I began researching how to get more distance casting, and discovered that bearing quality really matters, as does proper cleaning and proper oiling.  That sent me on a quest for better bearings.  I discovered ABEC and ISO ratings.  I also saw the prices of domestically sold ABEC 7's, which is HIGH.  I discovered that almost all, if not all, bearings are made in China and you can order them directly from the factories cheaply.  (The pricey orange ones sold in the states come from China)  The problem is quality control in China.  Once you zero in on the good stuff you are set.

Then I started researching how to super tune a reel.  A few key surfaces need to be polished to a mirror finish.  I devised my own polishing technique and a few days ago I dug into my 1999 Chronarch 100A.  This reel was given to me three years ago because the foot was loose.  I fixed that problem immediately, cleaned and oiled it, and have been using it since.  The drag was not smooth, and casting distance was mediocre.

This week I put in three new ABEC 7 (accordiing to the Chinese factory) spool bearings, new carbontex drag washers, and polished the appropriate places.  I also took the level wind assembly off and cleaned and oiled it -- not a task for the faint hearted on this particular reel.  It has an odd sized worm bearing, which I did not realize until after my bearings had come in the mail, so that did not get replaced.

The old drag was sticky.  The new drag is smooth as silk on startup after polishing the metal spacers and adding the carbontex drag washers.  Before new spool bearings and polishing I could get 4 seconds of free spool spin on a loaded spool.  Now I get 12+ seconds of spool spin.  For comparison, I have a new pro qualfier, never spooled, that I can get 7 seconds on.

I went fishing yesterday with a friend who usually outcasts and outfishes me.  I used the 100A for topwater and cranking.  The difference on the water was amazing.  I was casting so much easier and about 20 to 25 feet farther.  Casting was almost effortless.  My precision was vastly improved.  That extra distance and precision is critical for topwater on Bull.

I wanted to share this with any other fishing addicts on here and encourage you to try it yourself for a more relaxing and productive day on the water.
That's a pretty girl.  I caught her twice.  12.5 pounds.  I hope she's still alive.

PonderinHog

Interesting read, bondhue.  I never had much luck putting them back together.   :-[

 

bondhue

August 28, 2016, 03:29:07 pm #2 Last Edit: September 02, 2016, 02:33:54 pm by bondhue
Quote from: PonderinHog on August 28, 2016, 03:06:24 pm
Interesting read, bondhue.  I never had much luck putting them back together.   :-[
1.  Never tear a reel apart without the schematic in front you.  Get it online from manufacturer's site or mikes reel or similar.  My laptop is open by me with the sch. pulled up, regardless of what reel I'm working on.  If you can't find a sch the reel is not worth working on.

2. Get several paper plates, put paper towel in each one.  Take handle assembly and drag star off, put pieces in plate, set in safe place.  Take side cover off, put parts in another plate off to side.  Etc, keeping parts from one area together, away from other parts.  You can even lay them out in the order they came off.  Look carefully at everything as you take it apart.  Small parts like to pop into existence out of nowhere.

3.  Take C rings off in the bathroom over sink, with door closed, toilet lid down, sink holes plugged, trashcan in shower with shower doors closed.  Otherwise you will spend as much time looking for fly aways as you do working on reel.

Or get one of those little sand blast cabinets, clean in out, take fly away parts off in there, put back on in there.

30 years of heartache and you finally figure a few things out.

That's a pretty girl.  I caught her twice.  12.5 pounds.  I hope she's still alive.

Wayne Watson

I usually take out the centrifugal brake.  I prefer to control the cast with my thumb.  And, yes, I have a callous on my thumb.
Take a look at http://gridironhistory.com/
IF YOU DON'T TAILGATE WITH HOGVILLE...YOU HAVEN'T BEEN TO A TAILGATE!
Check out www.fearlessfriday.com
We don't rent pigs

bondhue

Quote from: Wayne Watson on August 28, 2016, 03:33:47 pm
I usually take out the centrifugal brake.  I prefer to control the cast with my thumb.  And, yes, I have a callous on my thumb.
That lightens the spool up a bit, which would make startup easier, but loss of mass also means less inertia after full spin speed is reached.  Is this correct?

What effect does it have on your casting?
That's a pretty girl.  I caught her twice.  12.5 pounds.  I hope she's still alive.

bondhue

Friends want to know what solutions I use on their reels.

I used kerosene for metal parts until recently, and dish soap in water for plastic.  Solvents will ruin your plastics.

Now I have trouble finding kerosene, so I use Coleman white gas.  It is easily available at Walmart and leaves less residue than kerosene.

I don't have an ultrasonic metal cleaner, so I put the parts in the solution, cap the container, put it on the dryer and turn the dryer on.  The vibration really breaks up the crud.  Bearings get the dryer for 10 minutes, put on a paper towel to dry, spun on a pencil and put back on the dryer for a second run.  Everything else gets one dryer run.  My wife likes it because I wash and dry a load of clothes with every reel I service.
That's a pretty girl.  I caught her twice.  12.5 pounds.  I hope she's still alive.

bondhue

People put too much oil in their bearings.   You do not want your balls pushing a wave of oil.   :)

The oil will also spin out and go places it should not be.  You can get exotic oil products, but almost every sportsman has a can of Rem oil.  A lot of super tuners use the Rem oil.  Just a quick spray is all you need.  The spray oil makes it easier to get just a bit instead of a large drop on the bearing. 

Do not over grease your gears and side plates.  Some guys coat the whole side plate with grease.  Don't.  Older Abus need a bed of grease under the moving metal parts beneath the gear stack (clutch mechanism).  But just there on the side plate.  Gears, both metal and plastic, should be lightly greased.  Drag washers should be lightly greased, except Lews runs their drag washers dry. 


That's a pretty girl.  I caught her twice.  12.5 pounds.  I hope she's still alive.

bondhue

August 28, 2016, 05:29:57 pm #7 Last Edit: August 28, 2016, 06:51:48 pm by bondhue
Do not put your fancy bearings with orange rubber covers in solvent before removing rubber cover.  Dry bearing and oil before replacing cover.

Do not use one brand of grease on drag washers and another brand on gears.  The two will get mixed together with unpredictable results.  I have used Phil's bicycle grease, Super Lube, and now I use Cal's drag washer grease.  High speed bearings (spool, handle, worm gear) get oil, gear shaft bearing gets grease.

Do not put unnecessary lateral pressure on bearing sides during removal or replacement.

Do not polish spool shaft where bearings sit on shaft.

D not use sandpaper on reel parts unless absolutely necessary.  It will leave scratches unless 1000 grit or finer.  I used 600 once to remove residue of a deteriorated drag washer and it left scratches I had to polish out.

Use q tips for cleaning small spaces.  Have a box of q tips at arms reach while cleaning.  Dip in solvent before using if needed.  Use clean q tip to soak up excess solvent.

Pull most of the cotton off q tip and run through line guide hole.  Why clean your reel and forget to clean the spot the line shoots through?  Once the hole is clean you can spray a little KVD line conditioner on a clean stripped q tip and run it through the hole again.


That's a pretty girl.  I caught her twice.  12.5 pounds.  I hope she's still alive.

tophawg19

spray teflon  on the rod guides . or use a clear nail polish. that covers any knicks and keeps it from cutting a line
if you ain't a hawg you ain't chitlins

bondhue

Quote from: tophawg19 on August 28, 2016, 06:50:43 pm
spray teflon  on the rod guides . or use a clear nail polish. that covers any knicks and keeps it from cutting a line
Thanks, good tip.  The teflon could also go in line guide hole.
That's a pretty girl.  I caught her twice.  12.5 pounds.  I hope she's still alive.

tophawg19

it will add a bit more distance per cast
if you ain't a hawg you ain't chitlins

Wayne Watson

Quote from: bondhue on August 28, 2016, 03:38:46 pm
That lightens the spool up a bit, which would make startup easier, but loss of mass also means less inertia after full spin speed is reached.  Is this correct?

What effect does it have on your casting?

Yes.  But I'm not casting 40 yards.  In tight timber where I want total control.
Take a look at http://gridironhistory.com/
IF YOU DON'T TAILGATE WITH HOGVILLE...YOU HAVEN'T BEEN TO A TAILGATE!
Check out www.fearlessfriday.com
We don't rent pigs

bondhue

Quote from: Wayne Watson on August 29, 2016, 06:49:53 pm
Yes.  But I'm not casting 40 yards.  In tight timber where I want total control.
Understood. 

I'm in very open very clear water with super finicky fish.  I doubt I'm casting 40 yards either, except with a very specialized rig for spy baiting.  Those gar really love snapping off a $14.00 spy bait.
That's a pretty girl.  I caught her twice.  12.5 pounds.  I hope she's still alive.

 

zane

Awesome thread bondhue

Honestly never put much thought into it
RIP LSUfan

bondhue

Quote from: zane on August 29, 2016, 11:58:33 pm
Awesome thread bondhue

Honestly never put much thought into it
TY.
That's a pretty girl.  I caught her twice.  12.5 pounds.  I hope she's still alive.

bondhue

August 30, 2016, 10:07:48 am #15 Last Edit: September 01, 2016, 06:22:43 am by bondhue
How to fix a loose reel foot.

Strip reel down to frame, put on paper plate with paper towel liner. 

Mix and apply 30 minute epoxy with toothpick around top of studs on foot.  Stuff paper towel inside frame avoiding foot, turn over and apply epoxy on bottom of studs.  Hit with heat gun for 20 or 30 seconds to thin epoxy so it penetrates deep into stud holes.  Pull paper towels and look for drips, clean with q tip slightly damp with denatured alcohol or acetone.  Hit cleaned drip spot with dry q tip.  (Edit: you don't need a lot of heat.  Use low setting or use your wife's hair dryer.  The reel foot should just get warm to the touch.)

Let sit right side up on bare paper plate (so reel won't stick to towel) until dry.  Check for tightness on a rod, and repeat process if needed.

This gives consistently better results than trying to reset studs, unless you are an experienced metal guy.
That's a pretty girl.  I caught her twice.  12.5 pounds.  I hope she's still alive.

bondhue

How and where to polish for supertuning.

Get dremel tool and metal polish.  Cut q tips in half with scissors.  Round out cut spot between fingers.  Insert one in dremel and tighten to snug.  Put a drop of polish on paper plate and dip q tip cotton in polish as needed.  Use new q tip for each part.

Rotate spool shaft between fingers, polishing spool shaft where it goes inside pinion gear.

Polish ends of spool shaft.   Do not over polish these parts.  One or two seconds per spot.  You will see q tip darken as you remove metal.

Pull cotton off cut q tip, apply metal polish to q tip stick, insert into pinion gear where spool shaft rotates and polish for one or two seconds, moving back and forth.

Polish both sides of metal drag discs, and top of ratchet gear at bottom of gear stack.  They should have mirror shine when you are finished.

If you have metal shims at spool ends on side plate, remove and polish where spool end rides.

This is all I usually do.  If you have a sticky reel function involving metal on metal movement you can probably smooth it out by removing and polishing the parts at contact areas.

Except for shims, one polishing is good for life of reel.
That's a pretty girl.  I caught her twice.  12.5 pounds.  I hope she's still alive.

Wayne Watson

Quote from: bondhue on August 30, 2016, 12:06:33 pm
How and where to polish for supertuning.

Get dremel tool and metal polish.  Cut q tips in half with scissors.  Round out cut spot between fingers.  Insert one in dremel and tighten to snug.  Put a drop of polish on paper plate and dip q tip cotton in polish as needed.  Use new q tip for each part.

Rotate spool shaft between fingers, polishing spool shaft where it goes inside pinion gear.

Polish ends of spool shaft.   Do not over polish these parts.  One or two seconds per spot.  You will see q tip darken as you remove metal.

Pull cotton off cut q tip, apply metal polish to q tip stick, insert into pinion gear where spool shaft rotates and polish for one or two seconds, moving back and forth.

Polish both sides of metal drag discs, and top of ratchet gear at bottom of gear stack.  They should have mirror shine when you are finished.

If you have metal shims at spool ends on side plate, remove and polish where spool end rides.

This is all I usually do.  If you have a sticky reel function involving metal on metal movement you can probably smooth it out by removing and polishing the parts at contact areas.

Except for shims, one polishing is good for life of reel.

Thumbs up!  Thanks.
Take a look at http://gridironhistory.com/
IF YOU DON'T TAILGATE WITH HOGVILLE...YOU HAVEN'T BEEN TO A TAILGATE!
Check out www.fearlessfriday.com
We don't rent pigs

bondhue

That's a pretty girl.  I caught her twice.  12.5 pounds.  I hope she's still alive.

jrulz83

Fantastic thread. I have cleaned and repaired my own reels for most of my life, but have never thought of trying to super tune one. I may try it in the future.
Lenin is cautiously optimistic.

bondhue

August 31, 2016, 05:14:01 pm #20 Last Edit: August 31, 2016, 05:49:03 pm by bondhue
Quote from: jrulz83 on August 31, 2016, 04:31:29 pm
Fantastic thread. I have cleaned and repaired my own reels for most of my life, but have never thought of trying to super tune one. I may try it in the future.
TY.

Don't polish spool shaft where bearings sit, that's why the bearing's there.  You want the bearing to fit snugly.
(edit to add if you are not Wayne you can also polish the brake plate, the circle your centrifugal brakes contact when they are turned on)

Sometimes you have an older reel you love, but something about it just isn't right.  I have an old Abu Black Max BB3.  I have swapped the bearings out for new ones, and it has carbontex drag washers on it.  Cranking on it is draggy because the older handles did not have bearings.

I had a Revo SXL given to me because it needs a new pinion, which means the main gear should probably be replaced also.  I don't want to spend the $ on the Revo, so I stole the handle and put it on the Black Max.  The Black Max is super smooth now, and the Revo is still in the parts bin.

A lot of parts are interchangeable and sometimes it pays to pick up a beat up reel if it's dirt cheap and your brand, just for parts.  Another good example is the BPS carbonlite reel.  Those carbon handles are sweet, and I've been told will fit Revos and probably other BPS reels.  A carbon handle is very pricey and the weight difference is barely noticeable, so not worth buying new.

The innards of the newer BPS reels look a whole lot like the Revo to me, I bet a lot of those parts are swappable.  I bet they are made in the same factory.

That's a pretty girl.  I caught her twice.  12.5 pounds.  I hope she's still alive.

bondhue

September 01, 2016, 08:26:19 am #21 Last Edit: September 07, 2016, 02:20:54 pm by bondhue
How to order new bearings for your reel. 

This is going to get technical, so half the class will be making paper airplanes or trying to pinch little Suzie.

First, you want ABEC 5's or 7's.  The 5's are cheaper and you might not be able to tell the difference on the water.  The new Abus and Shimanos come with the equivalent of 4's if I remember correctly.  5 is better than 4 and 7 is better than 5.  There is no need to replace bearings in a new reel, in my opinion.  When it's time to replace old worn bearings (5 or 6 years or when you notice a problem) is when you upgrade.  Even at full retail, it's about the same price as OEM.

You have three main choices of bearings: stainless steel, steel/ceramic hybrids, and all ceramic.  From what I read the ceramics chatter like a squirrel.  The domestically sold ceramics are outrageously priced.  So I stick with SS.

Too bad for us, there are maybe a dozen or more sizes used in the four or five main reel brands over the years.  They are listed by inside diameter, outside diameter, then width, in millimeters.  3X7X3, for example, is one of the standard worm gear bearing sizes.  That doesn't mean it will fit your reel.

You can do one of three things.  1.  You can order domestic aftermarket bearings kits for your reel, in which case you don't need to know what size the bearings are. They figured it out for you and put it together in a kit.  You pay more.  2.  You can order a kit for your reel from a Chinese factory if you have Paypal.   Some of the Chinese factories have kits already made up for popular reels.  3.  You can order individual bearings from a place that sells bearing for remote control cars, planes, and helicopters.  Their SS bearings are a buck apiece and ceramics 5 bucks, although I don't know ABEC rating, but you could ask before ordering.   They take credit cards.

(Wayne, can I mention the website for the RC bearings?)  Wayne says I can

http://www.avidrc.com/product/1/bearings/358/3x10x4-Metal-623ZZ-bearings.html

If you order from the RC place you need to determine what size bearings your reel needs.  The easiest way to do this is with a digital caliper.  How many fishermen have one lying around?  If you don't have a caliper, you go to the schematic, get the manufacturers part number, and start searching on google to see if anyone will tell you the size.  Most sites that sell the kits won't tell you for obvious reasons.

I will close by telling you that a lot of newer reels use spool bearings in 3X10X4 on the shaft ends (in the side covers) and 5X11X4 on the spool behind the little pin.   That doesn't mean these are your sizes.  And by the way, you need a special tool to get that pin out, and most kits don't include the center bearing for that reason.  If you want to know I can tell you how to make a usable pin removal tool.  I ordered one from Romania for $15.00 on fleabay.  About what I paid for that spybait that swam away adorning a gar's snout.
That's a pretty girl.  I caught her twice.  12.5 pounds.  I hope she's still alive.

Wayne Watson

Quote from: bondhue on September 01, 2016, 08:26:19 am

(Wayne, can I mention the website for the RC bearings?)


Yes, by all means.
Take a look at http://gridironhistory.com/
IF YOU DON'T TAILGATE WITH HOGVILLE...YOU HAVEN'T BEEN TO A TAILGATE!
Check out www.fearlessfriday.com
We don't rent pigs

bondhue

All of the bearings have an internationally recognized number.   The common 3X10X4 is 623ZZ, as you can see from the RC link now posted in my reply above.  The ZZ means metal shielded on both sides.   The two 3X10X4's that are probably on your spool shaft are open, or unshielded 3X10X4's.  I think that number is 623.    Will a 623ZZ fit on your spool shaft?  If I had a new spybait  I would tell you.

Yes they will.

Here is the ceramic
http://www.avidrc.com/product/1/bearings/577/3x10x4-Ceramic-Metal-623ZZC-bearings.html

The common 5X11X4 on the center spool shaft is number 115ZZ.  The somewhat common 3X7X3 on the worm drive is 683ZZ.

Check sizes on your reel before ordering.
That's a pretty girl.  I caught her twice.  12.5 pounds.  I hope she's still alive.

 

bondhue

September 01, 2016, 06:08:54 pm #24 Last Edit: September 02, 2016, 02:42:17 pm by bondhue
I have sent an inquiry to Avid RC to see what the ABEC rating of their bearings is.  I will post the answer if I hear back from them.

They responded promptly:

------------------
We do not carry ABEC 7

ABEC ratings in RC mean very little because of our demands. For example you can use an ABEC5 in an engine because the loads are not the same as on a wheel hub but an ABEC5 will fall apart on a hub in less than one battery or tank on a track. The tight tolerances destroy the races under axial loads and they don't allow for small dust to pass through the bearing. All our bearings have custom tolerances that we have developed over the years so pinning it down to an ABEC rating is nearly impossible. Some bearings have the thrust tolerance of an ABEC5 and an axial tolerance of an ABEC1. If you have to have a number they are most closely related to the ABEC3. I suggest being less worried with the ratings in RC and run what wins, a company that offers good customer service, has great word of mouth, and has a 100% money back guarantee. Hey we have all of those :)
---------------------

I responded I wanted these for a reel.  They responded with this

------------------
We have many people that use them in their reels. They come packed with grease. Some people like to clean the grease out and just oil them to free them up. We do have a 100% satisfaction guarantee.

-----------------


I think I will order some of their bearings and try them out.  At only 5 bucks apiece for ceramic, it's a good chance to see how those work, also.  Hey, all life is an experiment, right?

Thanks for reading the thread.  Over and out.
That's a pretty girl.  I caught her twice.  12.5 pounds.  I hope she's still alive.

DeltaBoy

If the South should lose, it means that the history of the heroic struggle will be written by the enemy, that our youth will be trained by Northern school teachers, will be impressed by all of the influences of history and education to regard our gallant dead as traitors and our maimed veterans as fit subjects for derision.
-- Major General Patrick Cleburne
The Confederacy had no better soldiers
than the Arkansans--fearless, brave, and oftentimes courageous beyond
prudence. Dickart History of Kershaws Brigade.

bondhue

Quote from: DeltaBoy on September 09, 2016, 03:09:14 pm
Great Thread.
Thank you. 

After looking around for a long time and trading emails with several Chinese factories, I think this is the cheapest/most convenient place to get ABEC 7's.

http://stores.ebay.com/HobbyismBearings/_i.html?_nkw=3X10X4&submit=Search&_sid=885505551

I have a few ordered, will do tests with them on one of my reels when they arrive.   Shipping takes a few weeks.
That's a pretty girl.  I caught her twice.  12.5 pounds.  I hope she's still alive.

lahawg1

Ceramic bearings are the way to go for ease in turning. I race chainsaws and have used a few sets of ceramic bearing in them and when it's turning 15 to 17,000 rpm's they have held up. Now I'm not running these saws for anything but making 3 cuts in a 6x6 up to 12x12 square wood.

bondhue

TY for the input.  If they will hold up in a chainsaw I'm sure they will be fine in my reel.  Do you run them dry?  If not what lube do you use?
That's a pretty girl.  I caught her twice.  12.5 pounds.  I hope she's still alive.

lahawg1

Quote from: bondhue on September 13, 2016, 11:38:35 am
TY for the input.  If they will hold up in a chainsaw I'm sure they will be fine in my reel.  Do you run them dry? If not what lube do you use?

All the oil is in the gas or methanol. I run 32:1 premix and usually Benol

http://www.motosport.com/product?psreferrer=https%253A%252F%252Fwww.google.com%252F&pssource=true&segment=badger&key=Klotz-Benol-2Cycle-Racing-Castor&cc=us&adpos=1o1&creative=93575775025&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&product_id=KTZ0001-X001-Y001&gclid=CMDqxcbijc8CFZKEaQodic4E5g

HogShat


bondhue

That's a pretty girl.  I caught her twice.  12.5 pounds.  I hope she's still alive.

DeltaBoy

Since I not fished in over 10 years I am going to have some fun playing with reels.  Last time I put them up I cleaned them and greased and lubed them and hung them up in the garage.
If the South should lose, it means that the history of the heroic struggle will be written by the enemy, that our youth will be trained by Northern school teachers, will be impressed by all of the influences of history and education to regard our gallant dead as traitors and our maimed veterans as fit subjects for derision.
-- Major General Patrick Cleburne
The Confederacy had no better soldiers
than the Arkansans--fearless, brave, and oftentimes courageous beyond
prudence. Dickart History of Kershaws Brigade.

Chuck Boarris

Awesome thread. I've been cleaning reels, and taking care of some of my buddies, and this thread was extremely helpful. I'm attempting my first super tune here pretty soon, so I may bombard you with questions.

riccoar

Where do you find replacement parts for old reels?

bondhue

Quote from: riccoar on October 10, 2016, 01:26:19 pm
Where do you find replacement parts for old reels?
Sorry for the hiatus, I thought this thread was pretty much dead.

So to the poster a couple of replies above who might have questions, I'll try to check back a few times a week to see if you need help.  PM me if you want.

To riccoar, there are various places to get parts, and no one place will meet every need.  Here are some.
1.  Mike's reel repair.  He has a library of schematics here http://schematics.mikesreelrepair.com/    Has most common parts for abu, shimano, and other popular reels. 

2.  Ereplacement parts.  internet.

3. Dad's Old Tackle on Ebay and other random sellers.  DOT shipping is slow.  Watch a stalagmite form while waiting for your parts.

4.  SmoothDrag for carbontex drag washer upgrade.  And now carries the NASA designed super lube TS301.

My boat mechanic dragged a dirty old 92 Citica Bantam out the other day.  It was missing the spool tension cap and the three items that went inside it, and neither he nor the guy who gave the reel to him could locate the parts.   I had to order parts from three different sellers, and only found the discontinued cap from a random seller on ebay.  Not everything is still available even for Shimano reels, unless you beat the bushes.

How do you find those rare parts?  By the manufacturer's part number.  Where do you get the part #?  From the schematic.  Use a search engine and type in the part # once acquired from the schematic.   As bad as you hate to, make yourself learn to read the schematic.  There is no other way to fix old reels unless you are magic.

To follow up on the hybrid ceramic bearings I ordered and promised to report on, they arrived in about 18 days.  I put them in my old Bantam Chronarch.  The free spool spin improved about 10% over the SS bearings to 13 seconds.  With the drag engaged I can spin the handle and get about 15 seconds of spin.  The reel is a little noisier than it was, but not much.  I'm hard of hearing anyway, so I can't tell without putting it up by my ear.





That's a pretty girl.  I caught her twice.  12.5 pounds.  I hope she's still alive.