Concerns about Mike Norvell

[WilsonHog]

Maybe concerns should be singular, because I may just have one.

Is is network strong enough that he can put together a quality coaching staff?

I get the positives - young, energetic guy with a bright offensive mind who wants the job. Driven enough to prove himself even after he lands his dream job.

But can he put together a SEC-caliber coaching staff?

[RazorPiggie]

Maybe concerns should be singular, because I may just have one.

Is is network strong enough that he can put together a quality coaching staff?

I get the positives - young, energetic guy with a bright offensive mind who wants the job. Driven enough to prove himself even after he lands his dream job.

But can he put together a SEC-caliber coaching staff?

So we shouldn't hire any up and comer.

[ipigsooie]

The good thing about all of the turnover in the sec this year is that there will be a lot of available coordinators. Chavis and Shannon are 2 really good defensive coordinators that will be available.

[ThisTeetsTaken]

Maybe concerns should be singular, because I may just have one.

Is is network strong enough that he can put together a quality coaching staff?

I get the positives - young, energetic guy with a bright offensive mind who wants the job. Driven enough to prove himself even after he lands his dream job.

But can he put together a SEC-caliber coaching staff?

What would be considered an SEC-caliber coaching staff?  I remember Petrino's staff's not being that great.   I would doubt that he could hire any big name coordinators.  Maybe he could though if the price was right.  Who knows. 

[WilsonHog]

So we shouldn't hire any up and comer.

Well, I don't think that is correct, but you're entitled to your opinion.

[Razorback de Nosferatu]

It all goes back to his youth and inexperience. (I might veer off topic while i ramble about it.)

I'd rather have Fuente or Campbell (not that either is likely) than Norvell for this reason. Those guys are still young but have a bit more on their resumes.

It's also one of the reasons Malzahn was/is so appealing. Alongside his Arkansas ties is the fact that he wouldn't be blindsided by any aspect of the SEC.

One of the issues with Bielema, I think, is that he just simply had no idea what he was getting into.

[RazorPiggie]

Well, I don't think that is correct, but you're entitled to your opinion.

No. Not what I'm saying. I'd love to have Norvell or Brown (Troy). But what up and coming coach is going to be able to put together an SEC caliber coaching staff?

[HF#1]

Mixed in with Wilson's point is the question of can he get a DC that can get us competitive again? Norvell is good offensive mind but defense is what is needed against teams in the SEC West.

[DenaoStyle]

It seems fans are so caught up in the fact that he's young, energetic...he has ties to the state, coaches nearby, etc that they overlook the fact he's a major risk. 

Less than two years head coaching experience at an already established program is very dicey.  Look at Butch Jones...he, too, had success following up a previous regime (twice). 

Norvell could be a hit or he could be a miss.  The problem is nobody can say for certain at this point in his career.  He would be a solid backup plan but should not be our primary target.

[parallaxpig]

Mixed in with Wilson's point is the question of can he get a DC that can get us competitive again? Norvell is good offensive mind but defense is what is needed against teams in the SEC West.

You start recruiting SEC caliber athletes and even Rob Smith would be successful.

[dhizzle]

He's from Texas. I can't have a head coach from Texas.

[HF#1]

You start recruiting SEC caliber athletes and even Rob Smith would be successful.

Kind of. There are 2 different kinds of SEC caliber players. There is what Alabama/Georgia/Florida gets and then there are what everyone else gets. Arkansas is down on that list. So, you need coaches to develop them.

[Dwight_K_Shrute]

$'s can bring in a good staff, along with knowing you are starting fresh with a 5 year honeymoon period, and yes there will be a lot of assistant movement this year.

Also you don't need a room full of grizzled vets with 10+ years P5 experience.  Get a good mix of young and old.  There are some outstanding coordinators and assistants at the G5 level and many are responsible for making the PJ's, Brohms, Fuente's, etc look good and get that next job.

Take Fuente for example.  Of his 9 assistants, 6 of them had a total of 7 years P5 experience before he arrived at VaTech.  3 out of the six had 0 years.  3 assistants have 10+ years P5 experience.  2 of those were Beamer holdovers Bud Foster and the Dline coach.  The 3rd assistant with 10+ years P5 experience:  Hogville Favorite James Shibest.

[Hawginj]

It seems fans are so caught up in the fact that he's young, energetic...he has ties to the state, coaches nearby, etc that they overlook the fact he's a major risk. 

Less than two years head coaching experience at an already established program is very dicey.  Look at Butch Jones...he, too, had success following up a previous regime (twice). 

Norvell could be a hit or he could be a miss.  The problem is nobody can say for certain at this point in his career.  He would be a solid backup plan but should not be our primary target.

Is Fuente having any problems at Va  Tech? I see you used Butch as example you do know he was head coach at 2 other programs right? For every bad example I can give you a great one having a young head coach is in no way any higher risk then having an established one.

[ricepig]

None whatsoever.......he'll put together a good staff, hopefully a couple of quality recruiters.

[Hawginj]

None whatsoever.......he'll put together a good staff, hopefully a couple of quality recruiters.

Dilly Dilly!

[Dwight_K_Shrute]

Dilly Dilly!

Dilly Dilly!

[GuvHog]

Mixed in with Wilson's point is the question of can he get a DC that can get us competitive again? Norvell is good offensive mind but defense is what is needed against teams in the SEC West.

Honestly if Norvell gets the job, I could see him keeping Enos as OC-QB coach and bring in someone like Chavis as DC if  Sumlin is axed at A&M.

[dhizzle]

I say take a chance on him. Hell Jeff Long tried an established coach and it hasn't worked out for him. Might as well try an up and comer with ties to Texas and Arkansas.

[ipigsooie]

Honestly if Norvell gets the job, I could see him keeping Enos as OC-QB coach and bring in someone like Chavis as DC if  Sumlin is axed at A&M.

Chavis won't be cheap but he would be an awesome hire. I wouldn't be surprised if he kept enos.  He kept Darrel dickey at memphis. I'm not sure if enos would want to stay. It seems like with norvell the oc is more of a title and less of a position.  I'm sure norvell will be the real oc.

[Atlhogfan1]

Maybe MN would hire Todd Graham as DC after he is canned 

I think there would be a learning curve with Norvell.  Figuring out the level of staff he needs for the SEC would just be one part of it.

Honestly if Norvell gets the job, I could see him keeping Enos as OC-QB coach and bring in someone like Chavis as DC if  Sumlin is axed at A&M.

Chavis would be a fool to take the DC job at Arkansas.  Plus I doubt he would make much difference. 

[HF#1]

Chavis won't be cheap but he would be an awesome hire. I wouldn't be surprised if he kept enos.  He kept Darrel dickey at memphis. I'm not sure if enos would want to stay. It seems like with norvell the oc is more of a title and less of a position.  I'm sure norvell will be the real oc.

Enos would be the only one I would vote to stay. I think he is great offensive guy that is being held back by a big bumbling idiot.

[ricepig]

Honestly if Norvell gets the job, I could see him keeping Enos as OC-QB coach and bring in someone like Chavis as DC if  Sumlin is axed at A&M.

Chavis makes around $1.7m at aTm, he's not worth the money any more.

[ipigsooie]

Enos would be the only one I would vote to stay. I think he is great offensive guy that is being held back by a big bumbling idiot.

I agree. But I also think he would keep lunney. The kid is a hell of a recruiter for these in state kids.

[HF#1]

Chavis makes around $1.7m at aTm, he's not worth the money any more.

I thought the same. He's not worth what he was pre- A&M.

[HF#1]

I agree. But I also think he would keep lunney. The kid is a hell of a recruiter for these in state kids.

I like Lunney.

[WilsonHog]

Norvell's current defensive coordinator is Chris Ball. This is his second year at Memphis. He's an experienced DC, but all in the PAC-12 (four years at Washington State and three years at Arizona State, both as a co-DC). He has some SEC experience, as a DB coach at Alabama from 2004-2006.

His offensive coordinator is Darrell Dickey. Pretty much all of his coaching experience, including nine years as the head coach at North Texas, has been in Texas and in SEC states. His teams won four conference titles in the Sun Belt. Looks like Justin Fuente brought him to Memphis and Norvell retained him.

[hoghiker]

Honest question. Would Norvell pick Arkansas over Ole Miss (if, and this is a big if, the NCAA doesn't sledge hammer slam the program)?

[ipigsooie]

Honest question. Would Norvell pick Arkansas over Ole Miss (if, and this is a big if the NCAA doesn't clabbler slam the program)?

Yes. It has been widely reported that he wants our job.  I've also heard that he wouldn't even take the om job. He would probably wait another year on a better job.

[IronHog]

Maybe concerns should be singular, because I may just have one.

Is is network strong enough that he can put together a quality coaching staff?

I get the positives - young, energetic guy with a bright offensive mind who wants the job. Driven enough to prove himself even after he lands his dream job.

But can he put together a SEC-caliber coaching staff?

BB has a massive network and his staff has gone down in quality the past few seasons....

[navyhog24]

Honest question. Would Norvell pick Arkansas over Ole Miss (if, and this is a big if, the NCAA doesn't sledge hammer slam the program)?

Not sure if serious....

[DenaoStyle]

Is Fuente having any problems at Va  Tech? I see you used Butch as example you do know he was head coach at 2 other programs right? For every bad example I can give you a great one having a young head coach is in no way any higher risk then having an established one.

Butch Jones inherited two programs built up by Brian Kelly.  He could not build Tennessee.  We need someone who can build a program.  Norvell has shown he can sustain an already built program.  He has not shown the ability to build a program.

[ChicoHog]

You start recruiting SEC caliber athletes and even Rob Smith would be successful.

That is the number 1 key.  Recruiting!

[ChicoHog]

Norvell's current defensive coordinator is Chris Ball. This is his second year at Memphis. He's an experienced DC, but all in the PAC-12 (four years at Washington State and three years at Arizona State, both as a co-DC). He has some SEC experience, as a DB coach at Alabama from 2004-2006.

His offensive coordinator is Darrell Dickey. Pretty much all of his coaching experience, including nine years as the head coach at North Texas, has been in Texas and in SEC states. His teams won four conference titles in the Sun Belt. Looks like Justin Fuente brought him to Memphis and Norvell retained him.

His OC last year was Chip Long who Brian kelly hired at ND this season. he has done a great job there.  Not sure if he was with Fuente at memphis before that. 

[The Boar War]

Our AD (whether its a hamstrung Jeff Long or no AD at all) is going to have a huge impact on if an up and comer can assemble an experienced staff.

[Paul]

His OC last year was Chip Long who Brian kelly hired at ND this season. he has done a great job there.  Not sure if he was with Fuente at memphis before that.

Chip Long was a GA at Louisville & Arkansas. He was the OC at Memphis last year after following Norvell from Ariz St. Offense hasn't missed a beat so. I think it's fair to assume Norvell is in complete control of the offense like BP was

[RazorPiggie]

His OC last year was Chip Long who Brian kelly hired at ND this season. he has done a great job there.  Not sure if he was with Fuente at memphis before that. 

Chip was a GA here.     

[Pork Ranger]

Chavis makes around $1.7m at aTm, he's not worth the money any more.

Agreed

[HoopS]

This was one of the concerns some had last time we were about to hire a similar coach.

[Hawginj]

Butch Jones inherited two programs built up by Brian Kelly.  He could not build Tennessee.  We need someone who can build a program.  Norvell has shown he can sustain an already built program.  He has not shown the ability to build a program.

what program has Gus built? Arkansas, no, Tulsa, nope, A State, try again, Auburn not even close so why is Gus so important if he's done the same thing Norvell is doing?

[Gonzo]

It seems fans are so caught up in the fact that he's young, energetic...he has ties to the state, coaches nearby, etc that they overlook the fact he's a major risk. 

Less than two years head coaching experience at an already established program is very dicey.  Look at Butch Jones...he, too, had success following up a previous regime (twice). 

Norvell could be a hit or he could be a miss.  The problem is nobody can say for certain at this point in his career.  He would be a solid backup plan but should not be our primary target.

There is no coach that is not a risk. The current Hog HC probably had the best credentials ever for a Hog hire and most thought he would do very well here. Every possible new coach could be a hit or a miss. That's not to say I think he should be the one before all others, don't know enough about the legitimate available pool, just that I don't think being a risk should be that big a factor since all of them are.


Go Hogs!

[HF#1]

There is no coach that is not a risk. The current Hog HC probably had the best credentials ever for a Hog hire and most thought he would do very well here. Every possible new coach could be a hit or a miss. That's not to say I think he should be the one before all others, don't know enough about the legitimate available pool, just that I don't think being a risk should be that big a factor since all of them are.


Go Hogs!

Bielema was a risk to those asking why he really left Wisconsin. I still do not believe the reason he gave everyone.

[Matt Burks]

Bielema was a risk to those asking why he really left Wisconsin. I still do not believe the reason he gave everyone.

And yet it's unreasonable to question why Gus would leave Auburn?

[Hawg414]

here's my thought process on this issue.  and it may be foolish, i dunno.  but if you are going to put your faith in Norvell as a head coach, then you have to also put your faith in his ability to pick capable assistants.

it is doubtful he has ties with any old-timer, "name" assistants... like Sam Pittman or John Chavis, etc.  however, the game has changed quite a bit over the last 10 years.  and it was during these 10 years that Norvell's philosophy and style were being formed.  it is likely he is best aware of his own peers who were coming about during this same time.  so while it is doubtful he lacks the connections for a Chavis DC or Lane Kiffin OC, it's likely he knows better than most who the next Chavis may be.  he knows who the other Mike Norvells are.

[Gonzo]

Bielema was a risk to those asking why he really left Wisconsin. I still do not believe the reason he gave everyone.

That's the point. He had probably the best resume for a new Hog HC and he was clearly not without risk.


Go Hogs!

[clutch]

here's my thought process on this issue.  and it may be foolish, i dunno.  but if you are going to put your faith in Norvell as a head coach, then you have to also put your faith in his ability to pick capable assistants.

it is doubtful he has ties with any old-timer, "name" assistants... like Sam Pittman or John Chavis, etc.  however, the game has changed quite a bit over the last 10 years.  and it was during these 10 years that Norvell's philosophy and style were being formed.  it is likely he is best aware of his own peers who were coming about during this same time.  so while it is doubtful he lacks the connections for a Chavis DC or Lane Kiffin OC, it's likely he knows better than most who the next Chavis may be.  he knows who the other Mike Norvells are.

Exactly, just as there's up and coming HC's, there are up and coming Coordinators. These guys know each other. The coaching community is small. It gets even smaller when you start narrowing it down into like minded groups. These guys talk, meet, share philosophies. I can guarantee you he has a list in his head of who his first few calls will be when he lands a big time gig.

[ChicoHog]

I'd talk to the DC at Wazzu.  Can't remember his name but I think he is from the Mt. Union coaching tree(Ohio small college power) that produced Matt Campbell and Jason Candle.  Mike Leach's teams have never played defense until he hired this guy.  Now they are pretty respectable. 

[Hawginj]

here's my thought process on this issue.  and it may be foolish, i dunno.  but if you are going to put your faith in Norvell as a head coach, then you have to also put your faith in his ability to pick capable assistants.

it is doubtful he has ties with any old-timer, "name" assistants... like Sam Pittman or John Chavis, etc.  however, the game has changed quite a bit over the last 10 years.  and it was during these 10 years that Norvell's philosophy and style were being formed.  it is likely he is best aware of his own peers who were coming about during this same time.  so while it is doubtful he lacks the connections for a Chavis DC or Lane Kiffin OC, it's likely he knows better than most who the next Chavis may be.  he knows who the other Mike Norvells are.

Great post and very true, sad part is not too many fans watch other teams and they only know names hence if it isn't a name it can't be good.

[Grizzlyfan]

what program has Gus built? Arkansas, no, Tulsa, nope, A State, try again, Auburn not even close so why is Gus so important if he's done the same thing Norvell is doing?

So all those wins at Tulsa, A State and Auburn are just figments of our imagination?  Plus what he did as OC at Arkansas?

[ipigsooie]

So all those wins at Tulsa, A State and Auburn are just figments of our imagination?  Plus what he did as OC at Arkansas?

I think he meant that gus, like norvell, hasnt had any rebuilding projects.