Rankings

[hawgfan4life]

Fans want to make such a big deal about rankings and AR not offering a couple of highly ranked recruits.  If you look at 247 Sports by individual recruits, you see a ranking graph.  If the recruiting gurus know so much about all of the players, how come the two most discussed prospect's graph both shoot straight up only recently?  I have sat in rooms and watched coaches ask a kid who has offered, and heard the same coach say if X is offering, we are too.  As soon as some schools hear others are offering, they scramble like cockroaches when the light comes on to visit and offer when it comes to the lesser known players that aren't ranked really high early in the process.  It is pretty simple, when AL, TX, FSU, OSU, MI, and others offer, the rankings shoot up and a player often times jumps a star ranking.  Can't fault these sites for thinking if AL is offering, the kid must be at least a 4 star.  Doesn't mean the kid is and it doesn't mean that there have been any additional evaluations other than they evaluate who is offering.  BB has demonstrated a pretty good eye for talent with players he has signed.  If he had these kids in his camps and he has decided to go after other players, it is because he is going on his own observations and not who has offered and the recruit's ranking index.  I find that more comforting myself.

[TebowHater]

Lol, yep. Rankings don't matter at all.

https://twitter.com/jeremycrabtree/status/826561971101245440

https://twitter.com/ESPNStatsInfo/status/826573284523245570

[Cambridge Hog]

Depressing. But not shocking.

The rest of us are playing for pride.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

Goodness.  You can lead a horse to...  oh nevermind.

[trphog]

If you think stars don't matter....... You are clueless.

[Seminole Indian]

I like the 247 Football Team Talent Composite for several years , as opposed to a single class, when it comes to getting a feel for what kind of roster talent, a team might have to cobble a competitive 2-deep out of as far as conference play.

Here is the 2016 Football Team Talent Composite for the SEC.

http://247sports.com/Season/2016-Football/CollegeTeamTalentComposite?Conference=SEC

[Dillon]

College football is like the NFL without a salary cap... luckily there are more unknowns with high school grads than college grads and plenty of 3* talents become stars.

[presidenthog]

You have to have one top 10 class to win a national championship. We might be able to win an sec championship with a couple top 15. It would take some bounces our way. I'm not sure we can ever win a natty.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

College football is like the NFL without a salary cap... luckily there are more unknowns with high school grads than college grads and plenty of 3* talents become stars.

The NFL is very different than college.  For the most part, the rosters are the same.  QB is the critical component.  NFL is almost exclusively about preparation and execution. Can't usually out talent your competition in the NFL. 

[WooPig90]

The "stars/rankings dont matter" theory should be dead now. The facts do prove that to be a champion or be in the championship, you have to be recruiting at a top 10 level at average.

[go hogues]

Fans want to make such a big deal about rankings and AR not offering a couple of highly ranked recruits.  If you look at 247 Sports by individual recruits, you see a ranking graph.  If the recruiting gurus know so much about all of the players, how come the two most discussed prospect's graph both shoot straight up only recently?  I have sat in rooms and watched coaches ask a kid who has offered, and heard the same coach say if X is offering, we are too.  As soon as some schools hear others are offering, they scramble like cockroaches when the light comes on to visit and offer when it comes to the lesser known players that aren't ranked really high early in the process.  It is pretty simple, when AL, TX, FSU, OSU, MI, and others offer, the rankings shoot up and a player often times jumps a star ranking.  Can't fault these sites for thinking if AL is offering, the kid must be at least a 4 star.  Doesn't mean the kid is and it doesn't mean that there have been any additional evaluations other than they evaluate who is offering.  BB has demonstrated a pretty good eye for talent with players he has signed.  If he had these kids in his camps and he has decided to go after other players, it is because he is going on his own observations and not who has offered and the recruit's ranking index.  I find that more comforting myself.

Let's revisit this thread reflecting the general feelings after our loss to Alabama this past season. We can't b!tch and moan in the season and then turn around each recruiting season and justify these poor recruiting classes. One begets the other...
http://www.hogville.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=618917.msg10483084#msg10483084

[moto625]

Stars are everything,  just look at the research done above by ESPN.  Of course there are a few guys that fall theough the cracks and turned out to be great but without the Jimmy's and Joe's it does not matter who the coach is.   We will always be in the bottom half of the SEC until our recruiting rankings year in and year out changes. WPS

[hawginbigd1]

The "stars/rankings dont matter" theory should be dead now. The facts do prove that to be a champion or be in the championship, you have to be recruiting at a top 10 level at average.

Nebraska, Va. Tech and Oregon a couple times have all played for it and are not averaging anywhere near top 10 maybe not even 20. Auburns championship had I think 4 players that were huge contributors to the NC team from their #4 ranked class, their average was like # 17. This is not the whole story, when does it come into the thought process that Saban and Meyer are dominating this landscape over the last decade, and it has just as much to do with them as it does stars. Stars matter, but as soon as Saban and Meyer get out you are going to see these other lower ranked schools in the mix more often. The Wisconsins, Oregons, Washingtons, TCUs and others are going to break the barrier soon IMO. Having the great classes stacks the deck in their favor, just like great coaches stack the deck. But mark it down this narrative is going to be broken.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Nebraska, Va. Tech and Oregon a couple times have all played for it and are not averaging anywhere near top 10 maybe not even 20. Auburns championship had I think 4 players that were huge contributors to the NC team from their #4 ranked class, their average was like # 17. This is not the whole story, when does it come into the thought process that Saban and Meyer are dominating this landscape over the last decade, and it has just as much to do with them as it does stars. Stars matter, but as soon as Saban and Meyer get out you are going to see these other lower ranked schools in the mix more often. The Wisconsins, Oregons, Washingtons, TCUs and others are going to break the barrier soon IMO. Having the great classes stacks the deck in their favor, just like great coaches stack the deck. But mark it down this narrative is going to be broken.

As you well know some of those teams have participated and produced at a high level after having had consecutive top 20/top 15 classes and given a different type of offense than what we run. But what they didn't have was 5-8 years of top ten classes that helped establish them at the top of the college football world. And there are even some schools who have had top rated classes for extended periods of time and yet didn't have the coaching to get them to/near the championship game. It requires a solid combination of both, which is why Alabama has been so successful for an extended period of time.

[Timfromlittlerockhog]

If stars are the end all be all then how come Louisville DESTROYED FSU this year ? According to the star rankings it should have been the other way around right ?

Evaluating and coaching matter. Unfortunately we have a coach who may be decent with evaluating but his coaching is severely lacking. The man never makes any adjustments. I'd never blame him for the offense. I doubt he knows enough about the offense to bother interfering. The defense is supposed to be his speciality. Yet we keep going through defensive coordinators like they are the problem.

If Arkansas had a coach who could both evaluate, coach AND make in game adjustments then eventually our classes would be top ten. Why ? Because after so many top ten finishes evaluators would be smart enough to rank our classes higher. Thats our path to a title. We had it going once. Just need to find another good coach. Or replace the AD and bring him back. Simple as can be. Which is why it will never happen here. Too obvious.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

If stars are the end all be all then how come Louisville DESTROYED FSU this year ? According to the star rankings it should have been the other way around right ?

Evaluating and coaching matter. Unfortunately we have a coach who may be decent with evaluating but his coaching is severely lacking. The man never makes any adjustments. I'd never blame him for the offense. I doubt he knows enough about the offense to bother interfering. The defense is supposed to be his speciality. Yet we keep going through defensive coordinators like they are the problem.

If Arkansas had a coach who could both evaluate, coach AND make in game adjustments then eventually our classes would be top ten. Why ? Because after so many top ten finishes evaluators would be smart enough to rank our classes higher. Thats our path to a title. We had it going once. Just need to find another good coach. Or replace the AD and bring him back. Simple as can be. Which is why it will never happen here. Too obvious.

Another arguing the exception to the rule post.

[jgphillips3]

It might be possible to win a title without top 10 classes, but it ain't ever going to happen hovering in the 20's every year with this scheme.  If we could take that next step and elevate from finishing 22-25 yearly and get to say 12-15, then I believe we would have enough talent, with the redshirt program cranking, to do it.  Those 10 spots might not seem like much but that is probably switching on average about four 3 star players out for four 4 star players and over 4 years, that's a major talent infusion.

[HOGINTENNESSEE]

If stars are the end all be all then how come Louisville DESTROYED FSU this year ? According to the star rankings it should have been the other way around right ?

Evaluating and coaching matter. Unfortunately we have a coach who may be decent with evaluating but his coaching is severely lacking. The man never makes any adjustments. I'd never blame him for the offense. I doubt he knows enough about the offense to bother interfering. The defense is supposed to be his speciality. Yet we keep going through defensive coordinators like they are the problem.

If Arkansas had a coach who could both evaluate, coach AND make in game adjustments then eventually our classes would be top ten. Why ? Because after so many top ten finishes evaluators would be smart enough to rank our classes higher. Thats our path to a title. We had it going once. Just need to find another good coach. Or replace the AD and bring him back. Simple as can be. Which is why it will never happen here. Too obvious.

You are right if recruiting rankings mattered, Houston wouldn't have crushed Louisville

[theshiva]

I wonder who are the closest to breaking that trend. Oregon in 2014?

[Nosboar Accubond]

So... Does Bama offer highly ranked player? Or do players Bama offer end up highly ranked?

[Vantage 8 dude]

So... Does Bama offer highly ranked player? Or do players Bama offer end up highly ranked?

Is this a trick question kinda like "which came first-the chicken or the egg"

[HOGINTENNESSEE]

So... Does Bama offer highly ranked player? Or do players Bama offer end up highly ranked?

It's both. It also matters how much a fanbase is willing to subscribe to a rankings website

[bennyl08]

It's both. It also matters how much a fanbase is willing to subscribe to a rankings website

For being lip service to fans, star rankings sure do a heckuva job predicting things like where of if you get drafted to the NFL and if you make the All-Pro list.

[Music City Hog]

Fans want to make such a big deal about rankings and AR not offering a couple of highly ranked recruits.  If you look at 247 Sports by individual recruits, you see a ranking graph.  If the recruiting gurus know so much about all of the players, how come the two most discussed prospect's graph both shoot straight up only recently?  I have sat in rooms and watched coaches ask a kid who has offered, and heard the same coach say if X is offering, we are too.  As soon as some schools hear others are offering, they scramble like cockroaches when the light comes on to visit and offer when it comes to the lesser known players that aren't ranked really high early in the process.  It is pretty simple, when AL, TX, FSU, OSU, MI, and others offer, the rankings shoot up and a player often times jumps a star ranking.  Can't fault these sites for thinking if AL is offering, the kid must be at least a 4 star.  Doesn't mean the kid is and it doesn't mean that there have been any additional evaluations other than they evaluate who is offering.  BB has demonstrated a pretty good eye for talent with players he has signed.  If he had these kids in his camps and he has decided to go after other players, it is because he is going on his own observations and not who has offered and the recruit's ranking index.  I find that more comforting myself.

Incredibly ignorant and dumb post

[Music City Hog]

If stars are the end all be all then how come Louisville DESTROYED FSU this year ? According to the star rankings it should have been the other way around right ?

Evaluating and coaching matter. Unfortunately we have a coach who may be decent with evaluating but his coaching is severely lacking. The man never makes any adjustments. I'd never blame him for the offense. I doubt he knows enough about the offense to bother interfering. The defense is supposed to be his speciality. Yet we keep going through defensive coordinators like they are the problem.

If Arkansas had a coach who could both evaluate, coach AND make in game adjustments then eventually our classes would be top ten. Why ? Because after so many top ten finishes evaluators would be smart enough to rank our classes higher. Thats our path to a title. We had it going once. Just need to find another good coach. Or replace the AD and bring him back. Simple as can be. Which is why it will never happen here. Too obvious.

Unbelievable that this is a real post.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

It's both. It also matters how much a fanbase is willing to subscribe to a rankings website

Oh wow.  Then we have a real coaching problem.

[Hawghiggs]

 We can never have an overall #1 class. But what we can have is the #1 class at a certain position.

[Music City Hog]

We can never have an overall #1 class. But what we can have is the #1 class at a certain position.

Deep

[colbs]

Unbelievable that this is a real post.

You surprised?

[NotSoFastMyFriend]

I've heard it said this way: Stars do matter but they aren't the only thing that matters.

[King Kong]

For being lip service to fans, star rankings sure do a heckuva job predicting things like where of if you get drafted to the NFL and if you make the All-Pro list.

Depends on how you look at it. If you are looking just the players drafted and there HS rankings it looks good.

However, if you are looking at every player ranked as a 4 star or higher and their % drafted. Not so much

[buldozer]

Anyone who thinks talent on the field doesn't matter in which team wins football games has their head in the sand..... anyone who thinks all evaluations and rankings of players is consistently wrong so the stars rankings are all off has their head in the sand.... anyone who thinks there are players every year who get over ranked, go unranked or are under ranked would be correct. The recruiting services are not perfect as nothing is, but overall their ratings are a reliable measure of how a football program is recruiting in relation to the other football programs and no one can dispute that. Currently our program is in the bottom portion of the SEC in recruiting consistently and has been. This will not win us an SEC championship and on that we should all be able to agree.

[TDHawgs]

When Kentucky and Miss State are ranked higher than you in SEC recruiting, it's not a good thing.. 

But we do have Vandy and Missouri beat so that's good.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

Depends on how you look at it. If you are looking just the players drafted and there HS rankings it looks good.

However, if you are looking at every player ranked as a 4 star or higher and their % drafted. Not so much

Again, it's an issue of probability.

Anyone who thinks talent on the field doesn't matter in which team wins football games has their head in the sand..... anyone who thinks all evaluations and rankings of players is consistently wrong so the stars rankings are all off has their head in the sand.... anyone who thinks there are players every year who get over ranked, unranked or under ranked would be correct. The recruiting services are not perfect as nothing is, but overall their ratings are a reliable measure of how a football program is recruiting in relation to the other football programs and no one can dispute that.

Correct.

[hogcard1964]

When Kentucky and Miss State are ranked higher than you in SEC recruiting, it's not a good thing.. 

But we do have Vandy and Missouri beat so that's good.

I thought we were ahead of Kentucky?

[TDHawgs]

I thought we were ahead of Kentucky?

Nope..

[jm]

It is possible to win it all without a top 10 class, but everything has to line up perfectly. It would take the perfect mix of talent and unity at every position with  no injuries. Unfortunately, "perfectly" does not happen very often.

[hogcard1964]

Nope..

Which source is that?

[Biggus Piggus]

Lol, yep. Rankings don't matter at all.

Everybody else should quit, because only the top-ranked recruiting classes matter. It's impossible to ever improve over time. Either jump to the top, or shut down the program.

[rljjr]

Nope..

Depends on the service.

[hawginbigd1]

Anyone who thinks talent on the field doesn't matter in which team wins football games has their head in the sand..... anyone who thinks all evaluations and rankings of players is consistently wrong so the stars rankings are all off has their head in the sand.... anyone who thinks there are players every year who get over ranked, go unranked or are under ranked would be correct. The recruiting services are not perfect as nothing is, but overall their ratings are a reliable measure of how a football program is recruiting in relation to the other football programs and no one can dispute that. Currently our program is in the bottom portion of the SEC in recruiting consistently and has been. This will not win us an SEC championship and on that we should all be able to agree.

But yet we have been division champs, and should have won one for sure already and we have never recruited to the upper half of the league, Missouri has played for 2 and never been in the upper half of the league........but carry on with alternative facts.

[TDHawgs]

Which source is that?

247sports composite rankings

[hogcard1964]

247sports composite rankings

We're just not improving.

[Razorbackers]

Everybody else should quit, because only the top-ranked recruiting classes matter. It's impossible to ever improve over time. Either jump to the top, or shut down the program.

THANK YOU.

It's almost like the goal should be to sign a top 25 class consistently, then win some games and get a little lucky and jump into the top 20. Then continue.

[Timfromlittlerockhog]

You are right if recruiting rankings mattered, Houston wouldn't have crushed Louisville

Exactly. It doesnt matter how you cut it coaching matters. BTW I think Houston had the better coach that day. But as far as anyone Arkansas has ever had. Well we had better than what we have now in the guy who is now at Louisville. Herman is going to do really well at Texass.

[code red]

Fans want to make such a big deal about rankings and AR not offering a couple of highly ranked recruits.  If you look at 247 Sports by individual recruits, you see a ranking graph.  If the recruiting gurus know so much about all of the players, how come the two most discussed prospect's graph both shoot straight up only recently?  I have sat in rooms and watched coaches ask a kid who has offered, and heard the same coach say if X is offering, we are too.  As soon as some schools hear others are offering, they scramble like cockroaches when the light comes on to visit and offer when it comes to the lesser known players that aren't ranked really high early in the process.  It is pretty simple, when AL, TX, FSU, OSU, MI, and others offer, the rankings shoot up and a player often times jumps a star ranking.  Can't fault these sites for thinking if AL is offering, the kid must be at least a 4 star.  Doesn't mean the kid is and it doesn't mean that there have been any additional evaluations other than they evaluate who is offering.  BB has demonstrated a pretty good eye for talent with players he has signed.  If he had these kids in his camps and he has decided to go after other players, it is because he is going on his own observations and not who has offered and the recruit's ranking index.  I find that more comforting myself.

Alabama says your wrong.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

Exactly. It doesnt matter how you cut it coaching matters. BTW I think Houston had the better coach that day. But as far as anyone Arkansas has ever had. Well we had better than what we have now in the guy who is now at Louisville. Herman is going to do really well at Texass.

So if rankings don't matter, then you must be implying we have coaching problems.

[hawginbigd1]

Exactly. It doesnt matter how you cut it coaching matters. BTW I think Houston had the better coach that day. But as far as anyone Arkansas has ever had. Well we had better than what we have now in the guy who is now at Louisville. Herman is going to do really well at Texass.

IMO Herman is a good coach, but he is going to be a hero and should give Charlie Strong a lot of credit for cleaning up the program and getting most of the garbage out.

[Hugo Bezdek]

Look I agree 100% that you have to have talent to win, but what I've observed the last few days confirms what I've always thought about recruiting stars/ratings. Akial Byers is a 4* recruit when he's committed to Bama and a 3* recruit when he's not. BJ Thompson is a 3* recruit or below until he gets last minute offers from FSU and Texas, then he's a 4* recruit. High ratings tend to go to players based on where they are going, and not based on the keen eyes of the people handing out the stars. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts that winning programs have higher rated classes.

[Timfromlittlerockhog]

Unbelievable that this is a real post.

Its my opinion. Therefore its not subject to your simple evaluation. You want to tell me that I'm wrong I'll listen. Want to show me why ? I'll listen. The guy I mentioned gave us back to back top ten finishes with classes ranked from 25th to 35th. Thats either coaching our guys up OR the rankings are wrong. You can't have it both ways. BTW the current coach has had the same success or maybe even more in recruiting rankings. Yet he hasn't sniffed the top ten. Now if you say that he is rebuilding that means CBP was also rebuilding. I shudder to think what could have been accomplished here if that was the case.

Problem with Arkansas is we let the morality of the few control the entertainment dollars of the many. There is no other place in the world where a bean counter AD like Jeff Long would have more value than a brilliant coach like Bobby. And it wasn't just offense. He was brilliant with his defense , his special teams and his offense.

Stars do not matter. And I'll tell you why.

BECAUSE THE GUYS ARE THE BEST AT EVALUATING TALENT ARE ON THE SIDELINES EVERY WEEKEND MAKING THE BIG MONEY.