Troy James wavering?

[ricepig]

Well, we need a true nose. 

Jackson and Capps will be ok there, but Jackson will be a senior, so we REALLY need to get one in this class if we're serious about switching to a 3-4.

I can get behind that thought, we'll probably move one of your OL over there.....

[Music City Hog]

I would be willing to bet there isn't a single person posting in this thread who hopes James flips.  And certainly no one, not one, would be insinuating that this would be any sort of "death knell" for Bielema.  Such hyperbole.   

Bingo, of course we don't want James to flip.  Hell, we want more if anything. Wild hog is correct on needing more depth at nose if we are moving to a 3-4.   

[ricepig]

We might sign Johnson, I honestly don't know.  I hope James doesn't flip.  And you know it's not as simple as saying we can just now sign 25% less d-linemen. 

Do we, or do you not need less DL in a 3-4?

[Music City Hog]

Do we, or do you not need less DL in a 3-4?

We need different DL

[Wildhog]

I can get behind that thought, we'll probably move one of your OL over there.....

[Bacon_Bitz]

We need different DL

Yes we need new everything

[The_Boot_stops_here]

Yes we need new everything

Seems a little drastic...

[ricepig]

We need different DL

So, Agim, Capps, Guidry, Marshall, aren't 3-4 d-linemen? Washington had 3 6' 300lb+ former RB's as their's.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

We might sign Johnson, I honestly don't know.  I hope James doesn't flip.  And you know it's not as simple as saying we can just now sign 25% less d-linemen. 

Johnson is like a plan C guy and JUCO I believe.  So not an encouraging sign.  Really hope we hold onto James, as he's being courted by some big boys and he's a HS kid.

[RedyorNot]

Well, we need a true nose. 

Jackson and Capps will be ok there, but Jackson will be a senior, so we REALLY need to get one in this class if we're serious about switching to a 3-4.

What about Guidry? He's listed at 294, Capps at 309. Does he have the frame to bulk up any? Makes me sad we had to move Froholdt to the OL, with his size and strength he would have been ideal.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

And I wouldn't call him a true nose, either.  We need an actual 0-tech NT.

Looks like that's not happening in this class, though.

Fortunately those types grow on trees. We'll probably just snag a couple elite ones next class.

[The_Boot_stops_here]

Johnson is like a plan C guy and JUCO I believe.  So not an encouraging sign.  Really hope we hold onto James, as he's being courted by some big boys and he's a HS kid.

Oh, I hope I didn't give the impression that I like the idea of signing Johnson.  Much rather have James at this point.  James is a guy that the coaches have been on for a LONG time while Johnson is a guy they supposedly wouldn't let commit.  That tells you how they feel about it as well.

[imtad16]

Things have escalated quickly in this thread.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

So, Agim, Capps, Guidry, Marshall, aren't 3-4 d-linemen? Washington had 3 6' 300lb+ former RB's as their's.

They all are.  I assume Capps is likely the only DT in the 34.

[Wildhog]

What about Guidry? He's listed at 294, Capps at 309. Does he have the frame to bulk up any? Makes me sad we had to move Froholdt to the OL, with his size and strength he would have been ideal.

Guidry is more suited to a 4-3 IMO, but he could work.  This transition is just going to take some time.

[Wildhog]

Fortunately those types grow on trees. We'll probably just snag a couple elite ones next class.

[ricepig]

They all are.  I assume Capps is likely the only DT in the 34.

I figure Capps will be a NG.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

I figure Capps will be a NG.

Yes, a NG in the 34.  I bet the others are DE's.

[colbs]

Johnathan Marshall is around 300.  So he may be an option at NG.  I think he was 260-270 coming out of HS.

[hawginbigd1]

It is not the worst thing if he does, but it will sting for sure, IMO he is highly under valued, definitely next level athleticism for a kid his size. CBB doesn't usually lose many in the end, hope he can continue that.

[Shutup]

We know this is sarcasm and we know it's ignorant. Go away.

You know it's true and on point and I'd like for him to stay. We need some voices of reality in the mix of all you lunatic Bielema tit hangers.

[southarkhog06]

You know it's true and on point and I'd like for him to stay. We need some voices of reality in the mix of all you lunatic Bielema tit hangers.

Yes this post clearly demonstrates how to have level-headed discussion, and not be a lunatic.

Welcome back, what was your last HV handle?

[Bubba's Bruisers]

Johnathan Marshall is around 300.  So he may be an option at NG.  I think he was 260-270 coming out of HS.

6-4 300 is probably the appropriate range for a 34 DE.  That also fits Agim and Guidry.  Not to say one of these boys doesn't have the frame to grow into a 34 NG.  James is basically build like Marshall as far as I can tell, so it's obvious we're targeting 34 type DE's.

[King Kong]

And I wouldn't call him a true nose, either.  We need an actual 0-tech NT.

Looks like that's not happening in this class, though.

I agree losing Javier Edwards huge blow. Land him and everything else seems to fit better

I assume Capps and Jackson get most of the reps in Run down situations and will have to be replace in known passing situations to get a breather

[hawginbigd1]

Yes this post clearly demonstrates how to have level-headed discussion, and not be a lunatic.

Welcome back, what was your last HV handle?

Beat me to it, I was going to ask if he was looking forward to creating that next ID?

[imtad16]

6-4 300 is probably the appropriate range for a 34 DE.  That also fits Agim and Guidry.  Not to say one of these boys doesn't have the frame to grow into a 34 NG.  James is basically build like Marshall as far as I can tell, so it's obvious we're targeting 34 type DE's.

Terrance Cody, Dontari Poe, or Vince Wilfolk is the type of DT we need.

I agree losing Javier Edwards huge blow. Land him and everything else seems to fit better

I assume Capps and Jackson get most of the reps in Run down situations and will have to be replace in known passing situations to get a breather

Yes. Javier was just about perfect for the immediate need of that type of DT in the transition to the 34.

[southarkhog06]

Beat me to it, I was going to ask if he was looking forward to creating that next ID?

I just don't understand posts like that. It is fine to think we need more of this position or that, but to just complain and call people names without even discussing anything? why?

[southarkhog06]

I agree losing Javier Edwards huge blow. Land him and everything else seems to fit better

I assume Capps and Jackson get most of the reps in Run down situations and will have to be replace in known passing situations to get a breather

I bet Guidry gets some reps to give them a breather too.

I am very happy with this class overall, but I cant help but be concerned with NG depth going forward.

[Huds_HawgTide]

Is t there a guy out of Little Rock thatncould get a late offer

[Oklahawg]

Johnson is like a plan C guy and JUCO I believe.  So not an encouraging sign.  Really hope we hold onto James, as he's being courted by some big boys and he's a HS kid.

Johnson is not a plan C guy. Plan C = the name we hear about, well, today, coming in for a last minute visit hoping to fill a spot.

Plan B = kid we eval and don't offer for a long time, then when the other targets fall to the wayside we pull the trigger and offer. This is not the kid that blows up his senior year, necessarily.

Plan A = kids who get offers before fall camp starts circa August 1.

Johnson had an early offer of some sort and visited in December. Hardly Plan C. He is not our first choice, obviously. That doesn't make him chopped liver, any more than it made Crockett chopped liver last year or Norwood at CB this year.

[Pig in the Pokey]

Well, his Dline coach at OU is probably actually recruiting him instead of out looking for a job while being "given the chance to move on" by his boss.

ding ding ding

[Oklahawg]

James is still a UA commit. Yes, he is visiting OU. They are in desperate shape, needing to land several DL late in the process. If another chooses OU then James will lose his OU offer. Problem solved. Or, James may choose UA and stick with his commitment. Problem solved.

Be happy our recruits are coveted by big-time programs. Be happy that most of the time the UA commits do not flip. Be happy we have two JUCO DL still in the mix (Johnson, and maybe Malik Young) along with a couple of OLB who can be 4-3 DE (Epley and Richardson).

Quitcherbitchin is the rule of the day.

[Pig in the Pokey]

but going with 0 this year doesn't seem like the answer.  depth isn't achieved by loading up in one class and ignoring it the next.

it CAN be....

[Pig in the Pokey]

Well, we need a true nose. 

Jackson and Capps will be ok there, but Jackson will be a senior, so we REALLY need to get one in this class if we're serious about switching to a 3-4.

i agree but won't say that James is the answer there.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

Johnson is not a plan C guy. Plan C = the name we hear about, well, today, coming in for a last minute visit hoping to fill a spot.

Plan B = kid we eval and don't offer for a long time, then when the other targets fall to the wayside we pull the trigger and offer. This is not the kid that blows up his senior year, necessarily.

Plan A = kids who get offers before fall camp starts circa August 1.

Johnson had an early offer of some sort and visited in December. Hardly Plan C. He is not our first choice, obviously. That doesn't make him chopped liver, any more than it made Crockett chopped liver last year or Norwood at CB this year.

Geees, dude, he's well down the list.  You get it.  You're just arguing semantics now.  Plan B, whatever. 

We've held this guy off for a long time hoping to convince others to come on board.  At a position will with only a single commit and very few names available.  He's like a backup to the backup type plan.

Your examples of Norwood and Crockett don't apply either.  In those cases, we obviously got guys we thought were higher on the board.  Not happening in Johnson's case.

[ricepig]

James is still a UA commit. Yes, he is visiting OU. They are in desperate shape, needing to land several DL late in the process. If another chooses OU then James will lose his OU offer. Problem solved. Or, James may choose UA and stick with his commitment. Problem solved.

Be happy our recruits are coveted by big-time programs. Be happy that most of the time the UA commits do not flip. Be happy we have two JUCO DL still in the mix (Johnson, and maybe Malik Young) along with a couple of OLB who can be 4-3 DE (Epley and Richardson).

Quitcherbitchin is the rule of the day.

Wrong, they just flipped a guy from TCU and are still looking for one more.

[Pig in the Pokey]

Terrance Cody, Dontari Poe, or Vince Wilfolk is the type of DT we need.



Yes. Javier was just about perfect for the immediate need of that type of DT in the transition to the 34.

losing Javie was 10 times more damaging than losing James. I'd say Johnson/James are more or less a wash. Back-up potential only. Losing Javie was way more impactful as he would have been a starter more than likely, maybe even next year, but he'd have certainly provided depth next year.

[Wildhog]

i agree but won't say that James is the answer there.

Sorry, I wasn't talking about James as a nose.

[Pig in the Pokey]

Sorry, I wasn't talking about James as a nose.

you were agreeing with me that James is a potential back-up @ DE, and in no way the huge need we have on DL. Like you said, we are down NG, not DE. we have plenty of bodies @ DE. Thankfully the 3-4 requires 50% less NGs (let's do the maths right, Hogville). We are going to need Capps to be a superman @ NG. If he has the motor to play all 3 downs and the strength to be the answer on 1st down and short yardage, we'll be fine. That is a HUGE 'if', though.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

you were agreeing with me that James is a potential back-up @ DE, and in no way the huge need we have on DL. Like you said, we are down NG, not DE. we have plenty of bodies @ DE. Thankfully the 3-4 requires 50% less NGs (let's do the maths right, Hogville). We are going to need Capps to be a superman @ NG. If he has the motor to play all 3 downs and the strength to be the answer on 1st down and short yardage, we'll be fine. That is a HUGE 'if', though.

And IF he doesn't get hurt.

[WooPig90]

Geees, dude, he's well down the list.  You get it.  You're just arguing semantics now.  Plan B, whatever. 

We've held this guy off for a long time hoping to convince others to come on board.  At a position will with only a single commit and very few names available.  He's like a backup to the backup type plan.

Your examples of Norwood and Crockett don't apply either.  In those cases, we obviously got guys we thought were higher on the board.  Not happening in Johnson's case.

How do you know we have held off on this guy for a long time?

[Pig in the Pokey]

And IF he doesn't get hurt.

are you telling me there's a chance? I do have a feeling that Capps will end up being quite the stud.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

How do you know we have held off on this guy for a long time?

It's been all the rumor.  Yes, rumor.  Just like everything else we base opinions on around here.  And even OH is admitting he ain't our first choice, which is quite an admission for him.

[hawginbigd1]

losing Javie was 10 times more damaging than losing James. I'd say Johnson/James are more or less a wash. Back-up potential only. Losing Javie was way more impactful as he would have been a starter more than likely, maybe even next year, but he'd have certainly provided depth next year.

Other than short term, meaning this year I disagree, IMO James has much greater upside.

RD says he isn't betting the house but he believes he stays, I am good with that.

[Oklahawg]

Wrong, they just flipped a guy from TCU and are still looking for one more.

Not wrong. Just didn't want to bring payboard scoop here - purposefully left it out.

[Oklahawg]

It's been all the rumor.  Yes, rumor.  Just like everything else we base opinions on around here.  And even OH is admitting he ain't our first choice, which is quite an admission for him.

Not sure why your panties are in a kerfluffle. He hasn't been our top choice since he (appears, anyway) to have tried to commit on his visit or thereabouts and we wouldn't take it.

Geees, dude, he's well down the list.  You get it.  You're just arguing semantics now.  Plan B, whatever. 

We've held this guy off for a long time hoping to convince others to come on board.  At a position will with only a single commit and very few names available.  He's like a backup to the backup type plan.

Your examples of Norwood and Crockett don't apply either.  In those cases, we obviously got guys we thought were higher on the board.  Not happening in Johnson's case.

Tag-teaming above, we offered Edwards and have had an "offer" out to Johnson but Edwards was higher on the wish list. So was Malik Young, who it now appears didn't get his offer formalized until the fall transcript was in-hand. But, as I tried to point out above, we were in contact with him and he knew the offer would be there with good academics.

It is exactly accurate on Norwood and Crockett. Sorry you are struggling with how I describe it:
1. we offer well over 125 players a year; most are offered by August 1-ish. This is the "A" list
2. there are players we inform we are watching for academics - if academics are in order they get an offer (A list, or B list if you insist, as that is known early in the process)
3. there are players we inform we aren't ready to offer until we see film from their senior season (these would fit the Plan B list, I presume)
4. If you exhaust A list and B list guys you can (a) offer a C list guy or (b) hold your scholies and visits for another season. This is precisely where Norwood and Crockett sit.

It is not even about someone getting the C-list scholarship slot. It is about not being "good enough". The only player CBB has taken like this might be Micahh Smith, offered at the last minute without a visit.

===

Maybe this should be explained without UA players/recruits involved. In free agency, an NFL team has a hole to fill at QB.  They contact several QBs and start talking contracts but clearly have a #1 choice. If that player has interest the other chatter is not very serious. Some teams will say "first player to take an offer gets the job" and that translates here as well. [Many here presume Kyrie Fisher and Thomas Johnston were told the first to take the offer gets the final LB slot.]

I don't mean to be petty but this isn't that hard to grasp.

I do not think it is appropriate to suggest that a player who held an offer all fall, visited early in the process, and still holds that offer...is a "plan C" just because we have another player with a similar situation who we like better (and only can take one).

[Oklahawg]

I would like to add/amend a bit. JBCarol has a great thread that updates regional/national media stuff on UA recruiting. Today's entry has a blurb on Johnson that says he is still a couple of weeks away from a decision.

Either the quote is bad, or old, or he has academic stuff to work on before we can accept a commit/LOI. Would definitely move him out of the "plan C" category, in my book at least.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

Not sure why your panties are in a kerfluffle. He hasn't been our top choice since he (appears, anyway) to have tried to commit on his visit or thereabouts and we wouldn't take it.

Tag-teaming above, we offered Edwards and have had an "offer" out to Johnson but Edwards was higher on the wish list. So was Malik Young, who it now appears didn't get his offer formalized until the fall transcript was in-hand. But, as I tried to point out above, we were in contact with him and he knew the offer would be there with good academics.

It is exactly accurate on Norwood and Crockett. Sorry you are struggling with how I describe it:
1. we offer well over 125 players a year; most are offered by August 1-ish. This is the "A" list
2. there are players we inform we are watching for academics - if academics are in order they get an offer (A list, or B list if you insist, as that is known early in the process)
3. there are players we inform we aren't ready to offer until we see film from their senior season (these would fit the Plan B list, I presume)
4. If you exhaust A list and B list guys you can (a) offer a C list guy or (b) hold your scholies and visits for another season. This is precisely where Norwood and Crockett sit.

It is not even about someone getting the C-list scholarship slot. It is about not being "good enough". The only player CBB has taken like this might be Micahh Smith, offered at the last minute without a visit.

===

Maybe this should be explained without UA players/recruits involved. In free agency, an NFL team has a hole to fill at QB.  They contact several QBs and start talking contracts but clearly have a #1 choice. If that player has interest the other chatter is not very serious. Some teams will say "first player to take an offer gets the job" and that translates here as well. [Many here presume Kyrie Fisher and Thomas Johnston were told the first to take the offer gets the final LB slot.]

I don't mean to be petty but this isn't that hard to grasp.

I do not think it is appropriate to suggest that a player who held an offer all fall, visited early in the process, and still holds that offer...is a "plan C" just because we have another player with a similar situation who we like better (and only can take one).

Yeah, still no clue what your point is with Norwood and Crockett...which option do they fit in of yours listed above?   Option no. 1, 2, 3 or 3?  Were they good enough for a UA offer?  Probably so, but who would you throw away in their respective classes to make room for them?  Whaley?  Maybe Calloway or Curtis?  Nobody's said they or Johnson are chopped liver.  Just that the staff almost definitely like other player over them, and so haven't been offered, or have contingency offers.

I grasp plenty, though.  And it's pretty obvious Johnson is a fall back plan.  Use whatever letter you like.  Or, maybe is really the bomb who we just can't convince to commit.  Maybe Johnson is slow playing us.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

I would like to add/amend a bit. JBCarol has a great thread that updates regional/national media stuff on UA recruiting. Today's entry has a blurb on Johnson that says he is still a couple of weeks away from a decision.

Either the quote is bad, or old, or he has academic stuff to work on before we can accept a commit/LOI. Would definitely move him out of the "plan C" category, in my book at least.

If he's an academic problem, and if he's JUCO (can't remember) there's a great chance he is, then we likely never had many options at DE this class to begin with.

[Oklahawg]

If he's an academic problem, and if he's JUCO (can't remember) there's a great chance he is, then we likely never had many options at DE this class to begin with.

I think this is the best info in the thread - we got to Sept 1 and had a small number of DL options. Edwards, Young, Johnson...all JUCO. James is the only HS DT that I recall us giving serious attention.

What we don't know, of course, is how many we wanted to sign, and if any were supposed to be JUCOs. But, I am betting they wanted more DL options in the freshman class.

Bet there are some tense moments as they wait for James to finish the OU visit and get back with UA coach.