Hatfield

[BigSexyHog]

Any older hog fans remember something like this and any idea what recruits we lost out in 1987?  Guessing it was a lot of Texas guys since that's where we mainly recruited from.  Think I was in 7th or 8th grade back then so it's a little before my time.

"As good as Hatfield's last two Razorback teams had been, he lost several recruits after 1987 when rival coaches claimed he was in Broyles' doghouse. When Broyles signed a new five-year contract in early 1990, Hatfield left for Clemson University without even visiting the campus"


Not looking to start a dog pile just found this interesting.

[codeHog]

Broyles was his BOSS and told him his staff sucked. Hatfield was insulted and screwed the Hogs by leaving

Broyles was right

[moses_007]

Hatfield was one of our best coaches ever, if not the very best.  Most of his teams won a minimum of 9 games.  Hatfield and Holtz were our two best coaches ever, and Broyles ran both of them off.

[DoctorSusscrofa]

Holtz dragged the University into politics by doing political tv ads. Broyles didn't "run him off," Holtz did a No No and didn't want to stop it. That's not Broyles' fault. Hatfield was stubborn about his staff. He had a right to be loyal to them, but he left on his own. Broyles frustrated him, but Broyles was his boss and Broyles had enough of a legitimate background to have a rightful say.

Both were excellent coaches. They had contentious relations with their boss. And both sowed the seeds of their own departure.

[Rzbakfromwaybak]

Broyles was his BOSS and told him his staff sucked. Hatfield was insulted and screwed the Hogs by leaving

Broyles was right

Ken Hatfield has the best winning percentage of any Arkansas coach .760
His record at Arkansas was 55-17-1 (that would look very nice right now) with 2 SWC championships.  He left because (in Hatfield's own words, talking about Broyles)  "coach, thinks he's still coach".  Having the highest winning percentage of any coach in Razorback history, he obviously knew what he was doing. Frank should have let him hire & fire his own assistants, & run the type offense that was winning games & championships.  If his record had been dismal, The AD would then be right to step in & ask for changes.   

[Wildhog]

I was an infant.

[The Hawg Marshal]

Hatfield is a fine man and was a good coach. Luckily for him though there was no internet and social media when he was coaching. We can look back and see his winning percentage and conference titles and wax nostalgic about the good old days. Truth be known, in spite of his sparkling coaching record Coach Hatfield was under considerable fire by a large contingent of the fan base because of the style of offense that he ran. I believe he called it the flexbone (someone correct me if I'm wrong). It was a thing of beauty when it was working, which was quite often in those days. The only problem was it looked awful when it wasn't, and this was when the first of the wide open passing offenses started showing up ie Miami, Florida State and a few others. The speed with which these new aerial attacks could score was a sight to see. Fans frustrated by the blowouts these teams put on traditional running teams , started the movement to get rid of the 4 yards and a cloud of dust type of offense, in favor of the flashier and sexier aerial assault. Coach Hatfield's type of offense was falling out of favor fast. Now why would you care what type of offense you ran as long as it was winning you ask? The Miami's of the world were having more and more success and winning championships more often and the traditional running teams were having less success. As fans are want to do they start grumbling about the offense (even during 10 wins seasons). Coach Hatfield was a very successful coach for the Razorbacks and I'm sure his issues with Frank were a big part of his leaving for Clemson. But the fan base didn't really kick up too much fuss when he left. Perhaps they had visions of footballs flying through the air.

[southwesthawg]

Hatfield was one of our best coaches ever, if not the very best.  Most of his teams won a minimum of 9 games.  Hatfield and Holtz were our two best coaches ever, and Broyles ran both of them off.

I would have a hard time putting Hatfield ahead of Broyles, Holtz, or Petrino in the Best coaches list.

[KennyForAD]

Hatfield is a fine man and was a good coach. Luckily for him though there was no internet and social media when he was coaching. We can look back and see his winning percentage and conference titles and wax nostalgic about the good old days. Truth be known, in spite of his sparkling coaching record Coach Hatfield was under considerable fire by a large contingent of the fan base because of the style of offense that he ran. I believe he called it the flexbone (someone correct me if I'm wrong). It was a thing of beauty when it was working, which was quite often in those days. The only problem was it looked awful when it wasn't, and this was when the first of the wide open passing offenses started showing up ie Miami, Florida State and a few others. The speed with which these new aerial attacks could score was a sight to see. Fans frustrated by the blowouts these teams put on traditional running teams , started the movement to get rid of the 4 yards and a cloud of dust type of offense, in favor of the flashier and sexier aerial assault. Coach Hatfield's type of offense was falling out of favor fast. Now why would you care what type of offense you ran as long as it was winning you ask? The Miami's of the world were having more and more success and winning championships more often and the traditional running teams were having less success. As fans are want to do they start grumbling about the offense (even during 10 wins seasons). Coach Hatfield was a very successful coach for the Razorbacks and I'm sure his issues with Frank were a big part of his leaving for Clemson. But the fan base didn't really kick up too much fuss when he left. Perhaps they had visions of footballs flying through the air.

The Bone was becoming obsolete.  Pro style offenses were emerging.  Everyone in the college football world wanted to be Miami.  Everyone at every school wished Jimmy Johnson was their coach.  And everyone in Arkansas knew, 'My God, we passed on Jimmy Johnson.  He wanted to be our coach and we turned him away.  My God, we actually COULD have been Miami... and we're stuck with an O that went out of style 20 years ago.'

What happened was not the fans' fault.  It wasn't Kenny's fault.  It was Frank Broyles' fault.  And he did it on purpose.  He knew Jimmy.  He knew Jimmy would dominate, and eclipse what Frank had done.  So he hired Holtz who he thought was just average.  Holtz started kicking butt, so Frank ran him off.  He hired Kenny knowing what he was getting - A system that would dominate weaker teams and struggle against the best.  Perfect.  But Kenny was too good and he ran him off too.   Finally, by luck, Frank ended up with his dream coach... Houston Nutt, no threat to ever do better than Frank.

[jackflash]

doubt Hatfield offense would have worked in the SEC

[Torqued pork]

Hatfield was one of our best coaches ever, if not the very best.  Most of his teams won a minimum of 9 games.  Hatfield and Holtz were our two best coaches ever, and Broyles ran both of them off.

Hatfield coached in a probation-crippled SWC and his record against the few ranked teams we played was extremely modest at best.

[rickfahr]

The Bone was becoming obsolete.  Pro style offenses were emerging.  Everyone in the college football world wanted to be Miami.  Everyone at every school wished Jimmy Johnson was their coach.  And everyone in Arkansas knew, 'My God, we passed on Jimmy Johnson.  He wanted to be our coach and we turned him away.  My God, we actually COULD have been Miami... and we're stuck with an O that went out of style 20 years ago.'

What happened was not the fans' fault.  It wasn't Kenny's fault.  It was Frank Broyles' fault.  And he did it on purpose.  He knew Jimmy.  He knew Jimmy would dominate, and eclipse what Frank had done.  So he hired Holtz who he thought was just average.  Holtz started kicking butt, so Frank ran him off.  He hired Kenny knowing what he was getting - A system that would dominate weaker teams and struggle against the best.  Perfect.  But Kenny was too good and he ran him off too.   Finally, by luck, Frank ended up with his dream coach... Houston Nutt, no threat to ever do better than Frank.

You are speaking Razorback heresy, but the truth.

[HamSammich]

I'm not a frank Broyles sychophant ..... but lol.... that is a puff the magic dragon story. Which I appreciate. But still absurd:

[radar]

The last 2 years of the Broyles/Hatfield feud caused severe damage to 3 recruiting classes, and made Broyles an AD few were willing to work under.The teams Hatfield put on the field were tough, disciplined, and the offense was hard for other teams to prepare for with 1 week of practice. In bowl games where the other team had more time to prepare, they would shut down our offense, the cause of the poor (1-5) bowl record.

[hoggusamoungus]

What happened was not the fans' fault.  It wasn't Kenny's fautlt.  It was Frank Broyles' fault.  And he did it on purpose.  He knew Jimmy.  He knew Jimmy would dominate, and eclipse what Frank had done.  So he hired Holtz who he thought was just average.  Holtz started kicking butt, so Frank ran him off.  He hired Kenny knowing what he was getting - A system that would dominate weaker teams and struggle against the best.  Perfect.  But Kenny was too good and he ran him off too.   Finally, by luck, Frank ended up with his dream coach... Houston Nutt, no threat to ever do better than Frank.
[/quote]

Based on what?  In 5 years at Okie State, JJ went 29-25-3 and never won more that 8 games in a season.  He even went 8-5 his first year at Miami, which was coming off a NC.  He won there with tons of Florida high school kids that would have never considered coming to Fayetteville so even if Frank hired him, he would have been more OSU than Miami.

[HamSammich]

The last 2 years of the Broyles/Hatfield feud caused severe damage to 3 recruiting classes, and made Broyles an AD few were willing to work under.The teams Hatfield put on the field were tough, disciplined, and the offense was hard for other teams to prepare for with 1 week of practice. In bowl games where the other team had more time to prepare, they would shut down our offense, the cause of the poor (1-5) bowl record.

Not saying I'm not a huge Hatfield fan(excuse the double negative) and I agree with some of what you said. Actually a lot. But the Broyles settling for mediocrity so he would be best -posts are fantasy at best.

[Athog]

Broyles was his BOSS and told him his staff sucked. Hatfield was insulted and screwed the Hogs by leaving

Broyles was right

So was Hatfield!

[jvanhorn]

Holtz dragged the University into politics by doing political tv ads. Broyles didn't "run him off," Holtz did a No No and didn't want to stop it. That's not Broyles' fault. Hatfield was stubborn about his staff. He had a right to be loyal to them, but he left on his own. Broyles frustrated him, but Broyles was his boss and Broyles had enough of a legitimate background to have a rightful say.

Both were excellent coaches. They had contentious relations with their boss. And both sowed the seeds of their own departure.

I more than appreciate Frank Broyles and all he did, but I have noticed way back then that whenever a coach showed he could consistently win here and might some day pass Broyles in wins, well lets just say things somehow started to go south for that coach, lol.  Or it could all just be my imagination, lol.

[Inhogswetrust]

doubt Hatfield offense would have worked in the SEC

I wonder if anyone tried to tell that to Bear Bryant.

[PORKULATOR]

Hatfield was one of our best coaches ever, if not the very best.  Most of his teams won a minimum of 9 games.  Hatfield and Holtz were our two best coaches ever, and Broyles ran both of them off.

Broyles didn't run them off. They left during moments of bad choices. Now isn't the time to slander Frank and piss some of us old dogs off.

[hoggusamoungus]

I wonder if anyone tied to tell that to Bear Bryant.

Bear had been dead for 10 years when the Hogs joined the SEC.  Times had changed.

[Inhogswetrust]

Bear had been dead for 10 years when the Hogs joined the SEC.  Times had changed.

Then tell that to Paul Johnson. Of course times have changed but it isn't scheme that is causing the problem.

[jkstock04]

Not saying I'm not a huge Hatfield fan(excuse the double negative) and I agree with some of what you said. Actually a lot. But the Broyles settling for mediocrity so he would be best -posts are fantasy at best.

There was a time I bought into this theory during the Nutt era. Sitting here today I'm not so sure. I wasn't old enough to pay close attention pre Nutt, so I don't have much say...but it sure looks like he ran off coaches that were heads and shoulders better than Houston Nutt, who he was obviously content with.

To the OP, any idea that the fans are going to hurt recruiting seems like a no. We pretty much recruit the same every year under every coach since being in the SEC. I don't see that changing.

[hoggusamoungus]

Then tell that to Paul Johnson. Of course times have changed but it isn't scheme that is causing the problem.

Johnson is 3-6 in nine games against Georgia, his common SEC opponent.