Who has more confidence looking forward? FB or BB?

[azhog10]

Not the reason.  For one thing, there is a list of about 20 players we have offered for the 2016 class and discussions about more players the Hogs are reportedly showing interest in.  Plenty of news or discussion mentioning names of recruits linked to our program.

Agree to disagree. Normally hog beat writers are months behind whatever actual movement CMA is having with recruits. Not the case with CBB. Just my opinion. I'm not shocked you disagree.

[WarPig88]

I had the most confidence when Petrino was here. Bad dude, but heckuva coach. I just knew we were going to win. Utmost confidence in him. Was just a winner.

I have some confidence in Bielema too, but football is kinda its own animal, the SEC is just a blood-sucking football league. It's brutal. That's not the case for basketball. I've always felt this way, nothing new. I expect more from basketball than football simply due to the nature of our competition. Basketball is underrated in the SEC, but football is nearly every SEC school's #1 priority. Not true for hoops.

Actually, if you must compare programs, the model program for the UA is baseball. Van Horn recruits fairly well, but coaches even better. They are a perennial fixture in the NCAAs, with an occasional elite year where they make the CWS. And the competition is stiff, the SEC is a very tough baseball league(and track, and every other sport too, etc). All UA programs should aspire to be what the baseball program has done. That's really what fans want: be in the NCAAs every year and feel like we have a chance. This keeps the interest up. Do something special every now and then. Maybe one year it will all come together and win the whole thing. That's pretty much what baseball has done since 2003.

Excellent post.

[TomBigBeeHog]

Basketball recruiting seems to have really perked up after this thread got started. Gafford commited, Henderson offered and an east coast recruit just came in for a visit. I'm kinda superstitious. OP, start another thread like this one.

[nwahogfan1]

Basketball recruiting seems to have really perked up after this thread got started. Gafford commited, Henderson offered and an east coast recruit just came in for a visit. I'm kinda superstitious. OP, start another thread like this one.

.

Gafford is a huge pick up for 2017.    I bet it even helps us with 2016 kids.  We really need Monk to verbal very, very soon.  That would help bunches.

[WarPig88]

.

Gafford is a huge pick up for 2017.    I bet it even helps us with 2016 kids.  We really need Monk to verbal very, very soon.  That would help bunches.

I wish he would but he seems to be adamant about not doing anything until spring.

[PonderinHog]

I wish he would but he seems to be adamant about not doing anything until spring.

Hopefully, we'll still have a spot available for him.     Load the wagon, Mike!  :razorback:

[Cinco de Hogo]

I don't have to get long winded about this not will I argue my position.  I would pick football because of my feelings about college basketball.  A coaches ability to keep a team together thst is successful is an impossible task in college basketball, leaving a minute number of historically elite teams to cherry pick the very best players.  I have a lot of trouble getting to following a team that changes it roster so often.

[TomBigBeeHog]

.

Gafford is a huge pick up for 2017. 

I was thinking the same thing...  call it the Portis effect. It's analogous to that theory about how a butterfly fart in Asia could create a typhoon in the South Pacific (I've had a few drinks, but you get my drift).

[HognitiveDissonance]

.

Gafford is a huge pick up for 2017.    I bet it even helps us with 2016 kids.  We really need Monk to verbal very, very soon.  That would help bunches.

Agreed. It's very early in the process but he already has offers from schools like Florida. Very nice pickup by the Hogs.
Just get most of the instate guys coming through the ranks the next few years and the Hogs should be ok. (Obviously, Monk is on another level so it would hurt to get the other guys and lose him)

[1highhog]

Logical post, but confidence is either something you have or you don't have. Personally, I have more confidence in what the football staff is doing, particularly in recruiting. This season will be very telling based on how the football team finished. Yes, they only won 2 games, but it was also in the toughest division and conference in the country, unlike SEC basketball. And they ended the season very well. The football team, while only 7-6 on the season, was competitive in just about every game after not winning a single conference game the year before. The current staff is building a wall around the state (there will be a few wall-jumpers) and they're gaining added attention from elite athletes outside the state. They're aggressive/effective recruiters and also still make it a point to bring in very good character athletes.

I have the utmost confidence that the football staff has the football team headed in the direction of being a national player. I'm not nearly as confident in the basketball staff, mainly due to their recruiting tendencies. I feel like their methods are very antiquated. The football staff is very modern in their approach without comprising integrity. Also, no staff changes for the basketball team in the last decade is a sign of a stagnant staff. No top programs keep the same assistants for nearly that long.

The current basketball staff has improved the program in a number of ways, but I just don't really feel confident that things are headed in a direction other than just being an average tournament team most years with a occasional really good year. Hey, that's better than the Pelphrey years, but as a fan, I don't see why I should except that. I don't think it's asking too much for the program to be more competitive than that. I'm not expecting Kentucky or Duke-level success. Still, basketball is my favorite sport and the basketball program is the one that will get the vast majority of my attention/interest/passion. Nothing's going to change that. I just think it's obvious that the football staff is doing a better job.

Good points made in your post.  However, you stated that you're not expecting Kentucky or Duke success, I as a fan ask, Why not?  Sure, I'm going back to the Great Nolan years when he had fire in his belly and Coached as good as any Coach in the Country.  But during that time, we were as good as either of those programs, beating both on the was to our only National Title in basketball.  During those early glory years from 89-94 we were as good as any Program any the Country and I see no reason we can't be there again.  Everything is in place to do so, so what's holding us back from getting there again??

[WarPig88]

Good points made in your post.  However, you stated that you're not expecting Kentucky or Duke success, I as a fan ask, Why not?  Sure, I'm going back to the Great Nolan years when he had fire in his belly and Coached as good as any Coach in the Country.  But during that time, we were as good as either of those programs, beating both on the was to our only National Title in basketball.  During those early glory years from 89-94 we were as good as any Program any the Country and I see no reason we can't be there again.  Everything is in place to do so, so what's holding us back from getting there again??

Do you really believe everything is in place?

We don't even have our basketball facility completely finished and are the last school in the SEC to even get one. We just won our second NCAA tourney game in 15 years.

In the decade prior to MA, we were under .500 in SEC games.

There are so many blocks that have to be put in place before we can claim we are ready. If it we still played in Barnhill, there really wouldn't be much difference between where the program was when Eddie got here and MA got here. It's been that long since we were a top 15 type team.

[Hawg Red]

Good points made in your post.  However, you stated that you're not expecting Kentucky or Duke success, I as a fan ask, Why not?  Sure, I'm going back to the Great Nolan years when he had fire in his belly and Coached as good as any Coach in the Country.  But during that time, we were as good as either of those programs, beating both on the was to our only National Title in basketball.  During those early glory years from 89-94 we were as good as any Program any the Country and I see no reason we can't be there again.  Everything is in place to do so, so what's holding us back from getting there again??

Those schools have had sustained, elite success over a period of decades. Arkansas has a really good decade. Singular. Maybe we'll get to that level someday, but that day is not on the horizon right now. Doesn't mean the Razorback program can't be a good to very good program. I think that is where the expectations for Razorback fans should start. Let's start at "good program." We've haven't been a good program for quite some time. Let's crawl before we walk and walk before we run and run before we fly. Then, expectations can change over time, but you have to get to that first marker of just being a good, consistent program.

[TomBigBeeHog]

Those schools have had sustained, elite success over a period of decades. Arkansas has a really good decade. Singular. Maybe we'll get to that level someday, but that day is not on the horizon right now. Doesn't mean the Razorback program can't be a good to very good program. I think that is where the expectations for Razorback fans should start. Let's start at "good program." We've haven't been a good program for quite some time. Let's crawl before we walk and walk before we run and run before we fly. Then, expectations can change over time, but you have to get to that first marker of just being a good, consistent program.

+1

[Razoryak]

This year is such a dumpster fire the bball team has to get a pass, although it is surprising the lack of depth/talent we would have had even without the suspensions. If the 2016 class is not a homerun and/or we have players leave the program again after this season, then we are heading towards 4 more years of "REBUILDING".

The football team is heading in the right direction and getting stronger all the time. They are getting, developing, and retaining the players they want, regardless of star rating. So I think football is looking much stronger at this point.  :razorback:

[WorfHog]

This year is such a dumpster fire the bball team has to get a pass, although it is surprising the lack of depth/talent we would have had even without the suspensions. If the 2016 class is not a homerun and/or we have players leave the program again after this season, then we are heading towards 4 more years of "REBUILDING".

The football team is heading in the right direction and getting stronger all the time. They are getting, developing, and retaining the players they want, regardless of star rating. So I think football is looking much stronger at this point.  :razorback:

It's not because we actually have a good coach in place. Mike didn't wreck his bike into a ditch. We shouldn't write off this season.

[Razoryak]

It's not because we actually have a good coach in place. Mike didn't wreck his bike into a ditch. We shouldn't write off this season.

It isn't CMAs fault directly like it was CBPs, but we have lost 7 key players and replaced them with one really good HS player ... so we are in deep trouble this season.

[WarPig88]

This year is such a dumpster fire the bball team has to get a pass, although it is surprising the lack of depth/talent we would have had even without the suspensions. If the 2016 class is not a homerun and/or we have players leave the program again after this season, then we are heading towards 4 more years of "REBUILDING".

The football team is heading in the right direction and getting stronger all the time. They are getting, developing, and retaining the players they want, regardless of star rating. So I think football is looking much stronger at this point.  :razorback:

Neither team has played a game. A lot can change by next year.

[WorfHog]

It isn't CMAs fault directly like it was CBPs, but we have lost 7 key players and replaced them with one really good HS player ... so we are in deep trouble this season.

Again, unless John L shows up to coach it's an infinitely better situation.  We'll be fine.

[Razoryak]

Again, unless John L shows up to coach it's an infinitely better situation.  We'll be fine.

Funny ... and true

[WarPig88]

Again, unless John L shows up to coach it's an infinitely better situation.  We'll be fine.

So if we go 7-5, that would be fine?

[WorfHog]

So if we go 7-5, that would be fine?

If we won our bowl game, yeah we'd be fine. I was primarily talking about the basketball team. I think the football team will finish the season with between 8 and 11 wins. I think CMA will have a winning season and might sneak into the NCAA's.

[Razoryak]

If we won our bowl game, yeah we'd be fine. I was primarily talking about the basketball team. I think the football team will finish the season with between 8 and 11 wins. I think CMA will have a winning season and might sneak into the NCAA's.

Dang, CMA is better than old John L by a mile .. but we ain't goin dancing this year.

And I would be good with the football team going 7-5 or 8-4 reg season, in this division that is a solid year.

[WarPig88]

Dang, CMA is better than old John L by a mile .. but we ain't goin dancing this year.

And I would be good with the football team going 7-5 or 8-4 reg season, in this division that is a solid year.

I am fine with the fb doing that for this year, but division or not, if that is what the future is going to be like moving forward, then it's unacceptable.

[Razoryak]

I am fine with the fb doing that for this year, but division or not, if that is what the future is going to be like moving forward, then it's unacceptable.

8-4 or around that on average with the occasional 10-2 thrown in should give CBB job security for life  :razorback:

[WorfHog]

As long as CBB is here I think 7-5 and 8-4 will become our "bad" years with more 9+ win regular seasons than not. I also don't think CMA will have a losing season at Arkansas and not making the dance will become a "bad" year for him. With more good than bad for both coaches.

[WarPig88]

8-4 or around that on average with the occasional 10-2 thrown in should give CBB job security for life  :razorback:

I hope you are wrong. That's Nuttesque.

[nwahogfan1]

I hope you are wrong. That's Nuttesque.

I know those records are not what most want to hear but it is darn good seasons for an Arkansas FB team from looking back into history.   History of long term success is not in our corner for us to be a 1st tier team like Bama, Auburn or the LSU.  We have to hope we can consistently fall into the second tier of the SEC until we start winning enough to prove we deserve to be 1st tier.

[WarPig88]

I know those records are not what most want to hear but it is darn good seasons for an Arkansas FB team from looking back into history.   History of long term success is not in our corner for us to be a 1st tier team like Bama, Auburn or the LSU.  We have to hope we can consistently fall into the second tier of the SEC until we start winning enough to prove we deserve to be 1st tier.

You ever hear of Bobby Petrino? He was only here 4 seasons and finished in the top 10 twice and it wasn't because Nutt left him ANY talent either. The cupboard was pitifully bare.

No, I refuse to accept 8-4 ever again as the high water mark for the majority of our seasons. It really doesn't have to be that way here.

[Big Nasty 34]

You ever hear of Bobby Petrino? He was only here 4 seasons and finished in the top 10 twice and it wasn't because Nutt left him ANY talent either. The cupboard was pitifully bare.

No, I refuse to accept 8-4 ever again as the high water mark for the majority of our seasons. It really doesn't have to be that way here.

And BPs 2 loss season was probably as good as he was gonna get. He wasn't beating bama any time soon that's for sure.

[WarPig88]

And BPs 2 loss season was probably as good as he was gonna get. He wasn't beating bama any time soon that's for sure.

So let's go back from not beating Bama's best teams ever to only winning 8 games. Makes sense, somewhere I guess.

[PonderinHog]

So let's go back from not beating Bama's best teams ever to only winning 8 games. Makes sense, somewhere I guess.

Yeah, considering Bama's likely to be one of those losses!   

[WarPig88]

Yeah, considering Bama's likely to be one of those losses!   

LOL

[Big Nasty 34]

So let's go back from not beating Bama's best teams ever to only winning 8 games. Makes sense, somewhere I guess.

8 wins wasn't the "high water mark" it would be low water mark really with 10-11 wins a great year is what the poster is saying I believe.

[WarPig88]

8 wins wasn't the "high water mark" it would be low water mark really with 10-11 wins a great year is what the poster is saying I believe.

It was the high water mark for his average year with an occasional 10 win season thrown in there. Thing about an average is that it represents the vast majority of the seasons with some lower win totals balancing out those OCCASIONAL 10 win seasons.

I swear, if the people who really believe that Nutt was the best we could do come back and run this program, I am going to puke.

8-4 is not acceptable as a decade period average.

[Big Nasty 34]

It was the high water mark for his average year with an occasional 10 win season thrown in there. Thing about an average is that it represents the vast majority of the seasons with some lower win totals balancing out those OCCASIONAL 10 win seasons.

I swear, if the people who really believe that Nutt was the best we could do come back and run this program, I am going to puke.

8-4 is not acceptable as a decade period average.

I am by no means a "nutter" that's for sure. I guess my point, or personal opinion, is that I don't really feel that BP would've shown to be astronomically better than BB or the 8-4 average season with occasional 10-11 win season.

I think BP had perfect timing coming in with the stud warren WR's +JA and made his offense really click early. I think if he had remained long after they left his record would have been around that 8-4 range. He was never going to have a defense to truly compete at a NC type level IMO.

I loved BP's offense too. I am a hog supporter regardless of the coach and am happy to have BB here now.

[WarPig88]

I am by no means a "nutter" that's for sure. I guess my point, or personal opinion, is that I don't really feel that BP would've shown to be astronomically better than BB or the 8-4 average season with occasional 10-11 win season.

I think BP had perfect timing coming in with the stud warren WR's +JA and made his offense really click early. I think if he had remained long after they left his record would have been around that 8-4 range. He was never going to have a defense to truly compete at a NC type level IMO.

I loved BP's offense too. I am a hog supporter regardless of the coach and am happy to have BB here now.

Petrino developed those players. They weren't "studs" coming into the program. Only ONE of those receivers was a 4 star prospect. Joe Adams was a 4 star defensive back, not as a receiver. USC wasn't going to even let him play receiver.

The SEC was in a power stroke as well.

Petrino showed what our program can be. Your belief that it would have regressed is simply not based in on field results.

I won't accept 8-4 and I hope the majority of Hog fans don't either. The Nutt years sucked and they were 8-4 years for the most part. We are better than that.

[Big Nasty 34]

I am by no means a "nutter" that's for sure. I guess my point, or personal opinion, is that I don't really feel that BP would've shown to be astronomically better than BB or the 8-4 average season with occasional 10-11 win season.

I think BP had perfect timing coming in with the stud warren WR's +JA and made his offense really click early. I think if he had remained long after they left his record would have been around that 8-4 range. He was never going to have a defense to truly compete at a NC type level IMO.

I loved BP's offense too. I am a hog supporter regardless of the coach and am happy to have BB here now.

Eh, JW was pretty salty, IIRC Bob Stoops said he was the best athlete in the region.

Anyway, that's all I'm going to say about that stuff.
I loved the BP years and I'm loving the BB years. I think both BP and BB are excellent at taking "3 star" guys and developing them into key SEC contributors. I do prefer Bielema's emphasis on non football development, however.

WPS

[WarPig88]

This year is such a dumpster fire the bball team has to get a pass, although it is surprising the lack of depth/talent we would have had even without the suspensions. If the 2016 class is not a homerun and/or we have players leave the program again after this season, then we are heading towards 4 more years of "REBUILDING".

The football team is heading in the right direction and getting stronger all the time. They are getting, developing, and retaining the players they want, regardless of star rating. So I think football is looking much stronger at this point.  :razorback:

Ahem....

[-Blu]

lol,  we better not hear anything else about how Bielma says you recruit your own problems and how much more promising the football program looks.

And I actually like Bielma as a coach I just don't like it when people try to act like he is doing so much better than CMA it's simply not true.

[Swinesong1]

This will get locked.  Coach Anderson and hoops can be bashed but you aren't allowed to say anything negative about football.

[-Blu]

This will get locked.  Coach Anderson and hoops can be bashed but you aren't allowed to say anything negative about football.

I know right.  This thread has made it this long while it was 100% bashing on the basketball coach, now that some criticism is coming on the football coach it's bound to be locked.  And I want both programs to be successful, but some people, as you can see by this thread, love to bash the B-Ball coach, but the football coach can do no wrong.  Let CMA lose to Toledo in basketball, there would be people on here demanding he resign. 

But it is what is and we know the deal.  And it sucks to lose games like this it hurts the perception of the program as a whole.  Arkansas is going to get a lot of negative media today.  Hopefully we can get the games out of Little Rock now, it honestly doesn't do anybody any good.  We basically lose a week of official visits for both football and basketball.

[hawgfan4life]

I vote baseball

[TomBigBeeHog]

This will get locked.  Coach Anderson and hoops can be bashed but you aren't allowed to say anything negative about football.

[TomBigBeeHog]

I know right.  This thread has made it this long while it was 100% bashing on the basketball coach, now that some criticism is coming on the football coach it's bound to be locked.  And I want both programs to be successful, but some people, as you can see by this thread, love to bash the B-Ball coach, but the football coach can do no wrong.  Let CMA lose to Toledo in basketball, there would be people on here demanding he resign. 

But it is what is and we know the deal.  And it sucks to lose games like this it hurts the perception of the program as a whole.  Arkansas is going to get a lot of negative media today.  Hopefully we can get the games out of Little Rock now, it honestly doesn't do anybody any good.  We basically lose a week of official visits for both football and basketball.

[-Blu]

So I was in MMQB just reading comments after the game, and I found our good ole buddy razorpiggie posting.  I just wanted to leave this here, so people see what we're talking about.

Here's his comments to fans complaining after a CBB loss to Toledo.

Losses really bring out the idiots.

Yes we will win and all the idiots will have to wait another week before logging back on.

That loss is greater than ULM? Give me a break.

Here's some comments from him after a 27 win season from CMA.

When half of your schedule is against NE Oklahoma State at Tulsa it'd be extremely hard to have a losing season. Hogville could coach these guys and not have a losing season when you play as bad as a schedule as we do.

We played 3 ranked teams all season. Was a good year but I'm not happy with 1 NCAA tourney appearance in 4 probably 5 years.

I want consistency, not high one year and low the next and then average the year after that.

[Swinesong1]

So I was in MMQB just reading comments after the game, and I found our good ole buddy razorpiggie posting.  I just wanted to leave this here, so people see what we're talking about.

Here's his comments to fans complaining after a CBB loss to Toledo.

Here's some comments from him after a 27 win season from CMA.

Well!  Well!  Hypocrite!

[Hogimus Prime]

I've got more confidence in BB

[Big Nasty 34]

I vote baseball

That may be the next razorback sport I watch on tv lol.

[TomBigBeeHog]

More confident in basketball team. Football team looks lost right now.

[nwahogfan1]

There are over 300 div I basketball schools. Only 64 make the tournament. There are only around 40 at large teams so that is the top 15 %. Sorry you can't do math.

There are only about 130 football schools. So it is about the same.

If the basketball team goes .500 there is no post season like there is in football.

Are you really that thick?

Yes, there are about 300 bb schools but only about 100 to 150 who ever goes to the T or realistically would have any chance of going to the NCAAT.   So I put FB Bowl invite and BB NCAAT invite about the same.