Silver

[Lanny]

Silver down today.  Buy buy buy

[OldPoop]

Silver down today.  Buy buy buy

Having very little income coming in I am at a disadvantage.  I have to sell something, stocks, toys, etc. to get more colored paper to swap for what I consider to be real money.

In 64 years it's possible to accumulate some toys.  I sold my beloved V-Max motorcycle that I rode for 12 years 2 or 3 weeks back and turned it into silver.  I sold my 1948 Harley project a couple of years back and turned it into silver and stocks, and before that my 1929 Indian 101 project bike.   Problem is I'm running out of toys to sell.  I'm now seriously considering selling my WWII B17G leather jacket (worn by a Little Rock guy named Petersen with the name Lilly Bell and the plane painted on the back).  Should bring an ounce of gold or 61 oz silver or more.  Otherwise I will have to start selling my guns. 

Jim Sinclair spelled out my feelings exactly in his response to a guy worried about PM prices:


Jim,

It is so tough out there. I just wonder how much longer we can hang in. My gold shares have been clobbered and my physical holdings continue to plunge. Did we misread the strength of the dollar? The weakness of other countries has buoyed the dollar. Is this correct? I know you are swamped so please do not answer this.  Thanks, you too hang in.

CIGA Bob

Dear Bob,

I am 100% committed in my gold company, no margin and no plans to change.

The world has taken on a "virtual reality" with no reference to what really is. This is the biggest market power play of smoke and mirrors in history. It is happening because the financial system is in a terminal state of broken.

To see your friends wounded is horrible. Regardless, I do not believe that Hollywood can keep reality from emerging, gold from rising, and the almighty buck strong.

The financial markets are aptly understood if instead of worrying you would watch a movie titled, "Wag the Dog."

My decision is made. No amount of evil, foul and false emails from short sellers, and the gold banks is going to do anything but strengthen my resolve. Today more than 25 new addresses from people I have never heard from before were added to my spam folder.

The only thing that can delay me in buying more gold investments is how fast I can sell any fixed assets I own.

Jim

Wag the Dog (New Line Platinum Series) (1998)



Anyone that has a clue about what is going on, understands that the final price of gold in official colored paper will not matter.  All that will matter is how many ounces you have in your possession.

[HawgWild]

OP, It may ultimately play out this way but am I understanding correctly that this was written in 1998? -> Wag the Dog (New Line Platinum Series) (1998)

[007 License To Squeal]

Silver down today.  Buy buy buy

You are 100% correct.......but DO NOT buy ETFs .  Buy ONLY physical silver...and buy silver which does NOT have a premium attached (like collector proof coins).  .999 silver rounds, .999 silver bars are good investments.  Circulated pre-1964 coins in bulk are OK also.

In my opinion, this is a temporary manipulation of precious metals prices.  I believe that anyone who rides this out will looking pretty good a year from now.

I deal with an exceptionally great company for ALL my precious metals.  PM me for details.

[007 License To Squeal]

Having very little income coming in I am at a disadvantage.  I have to sell something, stocks, toys, etc. to get more colored paper to swap for what I consider to be real money.

In 64 years it's possible to accumulate some toys.  I sold my beloved V-Max motorcycle that I rode for 12 years 2 or 3 weeks back and turned it into silver.  I sold my 1948 Harley project a couple of years back and turned it into silver and stocks, and before that my 1929 Indian 101 project bike.   Problem is I'm running out of toys to sell.  I'm now seriously considering selling my WWII B17G leather jacket (worn by a Little Rock guy named Petersen with the name Lilly Bell and the plane painted on the back).  Should bring an ounce of gold or 61 oz silver or more.  Otherwise I will have to start selling my guns. 

Jim Sinclair spelled out my feelings exactly in his response to a guy worried about PM prices:


Jim,

It is so tough out there. I just wonder how much longer we can hang in. My gold shares have been clobbered and my physical holdings continue to plunge. Did we misread the strength of the dollar? The weakness of other countries has buoyed the dollar. Is this correct? I know you are swamped so please do not answer this.  Thanks, you too hang in.

CIGA Bob

Dear Bob,

I am 100% committed in my gold company, no margin and no plans to change.

The world has taken on a "virtual reality" with no reference to what really is. This is the biggest market power play of smoke and mirrors in history. It is happening because the financial system is in a terminal state of broken.

To see your friends wounded is horrible. Regardless, I do not believe that Hollywood can keep reality from emerging, gold from rising, and the almighty buck strong.

The financial markets are aptly understood if instead of worrying you would watch a movie titled, "Wag the Dog."

My decision is made. No amount of evil, foul and false emails from short sellers, and the gold banks is going to do anything but strengthen my resolve. Today more than 25 new addresses from people I have never heard from before were added to my spam folder.

The only thing that can delay me in buying more gold investments is how fast I can sell any fixed assets I own.

Jim

Wag the Dog (New Line Platinum Series) (1998)



Anyone that has a clue about what is going on, understands that the final price of gold in official colored paper will not matter.  All that will matter is how many ounces you have in your possession.

Great post......

[OldPoop]

OP, It may ultimately play out this way but am I understanding correctly that this was written in 1998? -> Wag the Dog (New Line Platinum Series) (1998)

No the letter and the answer from Jim were written a few days ago.

Wag the Dog was a 1998 movie showing how the news is created and manipulated by those in power to achieve their goals.   It's worth a dollar to rent it, and it's probably a lot closer to the truth than we want to admit.

[007 License To Squeal]

As one of the articles said "Fundamentals always win over time"....That is exactly correct.  The true value of any commodity is demand vs supply.  It is very easy to find the data that indicates the demand for PHYSICAL gold remains high.  However, the demand for "paper gold" actually dramatically declined in the 1st qtr of 2013. 

If this trend continues, the "paper gold" investors will find that there isn't enough physical gold to redeem.  At that point, I see gold prices skyrocketing. 

[Lanny]

You are 100% correct.......but DO NOT buy ETFs .  Buy ONLY physical silver...and buy silver which does NOT have a premium attached (like collector proof coins).  .999 silver rounds, .999 silver bars are good investments.  Circulated pre-1964 coins in bulk are OK also.

In my opinion, this is a temporary manipulation of precious metals prices.  I believe that anyone who rides this out will looking pretty good a year from now.

I deal with an exceptionally great company for ALL my precious metals.  PM me for details.

good points, also a good time for pre 1964 coin collecting, key date coins are holding their value

[dafe1]

Your problems with that are with reportability. You have to report bars and pre-64 junk silver in certain quantities. There are premiums on American Eagles right now, but they are a non-reportable item. Premiums are high on silver right now because all of the people with silver aren't selling because they just got hammered. Lots of people are buying but because existing owners are not selling the premiums are higher.

Expect $18 silver, possibly within the next 6 months as the Fed winds down QE. Gold and silver will both go up again at some point, but that doesn't mean it's a good investment right now.

[OldPoop]

Your problems with that are with reportability. You have to report bars and pre-64 junk silver in certain quantities. There are premiums on American Eagles right now, but they are a non-reportable item. Premiums are high on silver right now because all of the people with silver aren't selling because they just got hammered. Lots of people are buying but because existing owners are not selling the premiums are higher.

Expect $18 silver, possibly within the next 6 months as the Fed winds down QE. Gold and silver will both go up again at some point, but that doesn't mean it's a good investment right now.

I can't disagree with you on the basis of an investment.

But if you look at silver/gold bullion as a store of value this is a great time to buy.  You buy while you are able to, and while it is a good price.  Only time will tell for certain about availability, but imo you are not considering availability at all, like you will be able to buy as much as you want at any time in the future.

If you think people are not selling now at $22 or $23 because they refuse to take a big loss, how much do you think they will be selling at $18, and what will the premium be then?   I've read that in the 2008 bankster beat down, the shortage of silver was so great that people had to pay up to a 50% premium to get anyone to sell.

But that is not the real problem.  IMO the real problem will come when the parabola finally occurs.  Who will be stupid enough to sell?   Where will you buy it?  You will not get any of my silver unless you have gold to trade, and you may not have any gold either at that time because it is not a good "investment" at this time.  People will have money, and because of inflation will be wanting to get rid of it, but I believe it will be almost impossible to get anyone to sell bullion for colored paper.  Why would anyone exchange an item going up in value for an item going down in value?

[dafe1]

I can't disagree with you on the basis of an investment.

But if you look at silver/gold bullion as a store of value this is a great time to buy.  You buy while you are able to, and while it is a good price.  Only time will tell for certain about availability, but imo you are not considering availability at all, like you will be able to buy as much as you want at any time in the future.

If you think people are not selling now at $22 or $23 because they refuse to take a big loss, how much do you think they will be selling at $18, and what will the premium be then?   I've read that in the 2008 bankster beat down, the shortage of silver was so great that people had to pay up to a 50% premium to get anyone to sell.

But that is not the real problem.  IMO the real problem will come when the parabola finally occurs.  Who will be stupid enough to sell?   Where will you buy it?  You will not get any of my silver unless you have gold to trade, and you may not have any gold either at that time because it is not a good "investment" at this time.  People will have money, and because of inflation will be wanting to get rid of it, but I believe it will be almost impossible to get anyone to sell bullion for colored paper.  Why would anyone exchange an item going up in value for an item going down in value?

It's not a great time to buy even as a store of value. Gold and silver are going DOWN in value and have been going down. Once they bottom they will stay stagnant for some period of time before a significant fear of inflation, geopolitical event, or recession drives them up again. During this period whether it's 3 years or 25 years your position is continuing to lose value by not going up in price.

No matter what you call it - store of value, insurance, etc - it's still an investment even if your desired performance is simply keeping up with inflation. For the last 2 years it hasn't. IMHO, for the next 15+ years it won't.

Bartering will not happen with gold and silver. Worst case scenario you use food, water, ammunition -- necessities. Next to that you'll be using Canadian Dollars or some other strong foreign currency in close proximity.

On the subject of availability - there are plenty of good investments in the event there is total economic collapse (there won't be). David Hume said this hundreds of years ago - a doubling of the money supply simply leads to a doubling of all prices. As long you are invested in something tangible you are protecting yourself against inflation. Why ride the volatility of a commodity when there are plenty of tangible assets to invest in.

[dafe1]

good points, also a good time for pre 1964 coin collecting, key date coins are holding their value

Generic numismatics bad. Rare and scarce numismatics good. The key is making sure you get into the right kind of rarity at the right price.

[Lanny]

Sold some Canadian Maples yesterday and did very well.  The key to Precious Metals and coin collecting is buy them for fun and hobbies and not your main investment

[007 License To Squeal]

It's not a great time to buy even as a store of value. Gold and silver are going DOWN in value and have been going down. Once they bottom they will stay stagnant for some period of time before a significant fear of inflation, geopolitical event, or recession drives them up again. During this period whether it's 3 years or 25 years your position is continuing to lose value by not going up in price.

No matter what you call it - store of value, insurance, etc - it's still an investment even if your desired performance is simply keeping up with inflation. For the last 2 years it hasn't. IMHO, for the next 15+ years it won't.

Bartering will not happen with gold and silver. Worst case scenario you use food, water, ammunition -- necessities. Next to that you'll be using Canadian Dollars or some other strong foreign currency in close proximity.

On the subject of availability - there are plenty of good investments in the event there is total economic collapse (there won't be). David Hume said this hundreds of years ago - a doubling of the money supply simply leads to a doubling of all prices. As long you are invested in something tangible you are protecting yourself against inflation. Why ride the volatility of a commodity when there are plenty of tangible assets to invest in.

Wrong.  Do a little research and tell me whether the DEMAND for physical gold is going up or down......the answer is up.......

Gold and silver are significantly UNDER-valued.  Now is a perfect time to buy....imo.

[dafe1]

Wrong.  Do a little research and tell me whether the DEMAND for physical gold is going up or down......the answer is up.......

Gold and silver are significantly UNDER-valued.  Now is a perfect time to buy....imo.

Do a little research? I work at one of the largest investment firms in the country dealing with tangible assets. I work specifically with commodities.

Simply put, your opinion is wrong. It is not grounded in fact. Physical demand appears to be up only, AND ONLY, because there aren't as many people selling due to the recent drop in price. There is a temporary supply shortage in the reseller market; there is no true shortage of either metal. Silver used in manufacturing is only absorbing 30% of the production. If there was a real shortage there would not be nearly as many going into bars/coins.

If there truly was a real shortage then you would see the metal's price actually affected. Instead all you see is a change in the premiums charged.

Tell me how under-valued they are when you see $18 silver and $1000 gold some time over the next 6-12 months depending on when the Fed moves on QE, Operation Twist, and interest rates. If you want I can sell you 8 figures in gold/silver right now -- but like I tell my clients, this is not a good time. Both metals will be lower... expect bottoms at $18 on silver, maybe a little lower, and $800-1000 gold. Even then they won't be a good investment (imho) but that will be the bottom to get into for purposes of diversification.

[OldPoop]

there is no true shortage of either metal. Silver used in manufacturing is only absorbing 30% of the production. If there was a real shortage there would not be nearly as many going into bars/coins.

If there truly was a real shortage then you would see the metal's price actually affected. Instead all you see is a change in the premiums charged.

Tell me how under-valued they are when you see $18 silver and $1000 gold some time over the next 6-12 months depending on when the Fed moves on QE, Operation Twist, and interest rates. If you want I can sell you 8 figures in gold/silver right now -- but like I tell my clients, this is not a good time. Both metals will be lower... expect bottoms at $18 on silver, maybe a little lower, and $800-1000 gold. Even then they won't be a good investment (imho) but that will be the bottom to get into for purposes of diversification.

You don't need to go to any trouble, but if you can easily put your finger on the 30% industrial usage stats I would appreciate it.   Four years ago I was reading 47%, and the number has been slowly creeping up until last year I read 51%.

The price of gold crashed because 400 tons of paper gold were sold in the middle of the night, NOT because the dollar printing stopped, or manufacturing jobs moved back to the U.S., or the debt got smaller, or 47 million people moved off food stamps,  or the number of employed increased, or because the tax base increased, or because we were suddenly flooded with a newly discovered source of gold, or (I'm sure you're getting the idea).   Whether a person gets his ideas from an "opium waiting room" or anywhere else, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that this crash is from manipulation.   If the paper price keeps going down (it could certainly go down more) it will still be because of manipulation, not because any of the above problems were suddenly fixed.

If there was no shortage it wouldn't take us 7 years to ship the Germans their gold, and bullion banks would not be delaying and even denying people delivery of their gold.   If buying gold is so stupid, why is the Chinese government keeping every ounce it produces plus importing more?  Why are Russia and so many other governments around the world buying gold every month?   
That's a lot of stupid people.

I have the same number of ounces today that I had before the crash (except for a little more), so I have lost nothing.   I am not concerned with the manipulated price, other than can I afford to pay it.   No manipulation can be successful forever, they all fail eventually due to real market forces.  The government failed with the London Gold Pool scam (after probably losing half or more of our gold) and this scam will run its course too.

[OldPoop]

-- but like I tell my clients, this is not a good time. Both metals will be lower... expect bottoms at $18 on silver, maybe a little lower, and $800-1000 gold. Even then they won't be a good investment (imho) but that will be the bottom to get into for purposes of diversification.

From Bill Bonner:

As I have said for many years, you cannot "trade" in this market now, when it comes to gold and silver.  Governments are broke, the banking system is broke, and brokers are broke.  Central banks are printing money because their sovereign treasuries need to borrow increasingly more to keep their doors open.  These central banks are also printing to prevent the collapse of currency and equity markets; it is THE only policy option left. 

Here is my point; you cannot trade because you are trading against a rigged market.  You cannot be "out" because any moment of any day can be THE moment.  "THE MOMENT" being the point in time where everything stops and the ability to actually purchase metal and have it delivered will no longer exist. 

"When" does another exchange like HKMEX default?  When does another bank like ABN AMRO default and tell customers "no, you cannot have your gold?"  You absolutely MUST be positioned ahead of time because just "one second" late will end up being a "lifetime" too late...YOUR lifetime and lifestyle.

In my opinion, Larry Edelson is doing a disservice to the world.  He is suggesting that people "wait" to purchase their metal so that they can get a better price.  Even he believes that gold will trade between $5,000-$10,000 in 3 or 4 years, what difference will it make whether you paid $100-$200 "too much?" 

I believe that we will look back in time and the only thing of importance is whether or not we have "ounces" and "how many."  Playing a guessing game, trying to be cute and trying to out-time the Fed and JP Morgan is a very dangerous game to play, especially when it involves your financial survival. 

http://blog.milesfranklin.com/larry-edelson-right-for-the-wrong-reason

[007 License To Squeal]

Physical demand appears to be up only, AND ONLY, because there aren't as many people selling due to the recent drop in price.

Fewer people selling due to the recent drop in price is causing a rise in demand for physical?  Really?

but like I tell my clients, this is not a good time. Both metals will be lower... expect bottoms at $18 on silver, maybe a little lower, and $800-1000 gold.

$800 gold? I don't believe it.  But if it falls that low, I will continue to buy. In Asia, people stand for hours to get physical.

Physical is being pushed by QE (among other things).  I won't last forever.  You can't deny the fact that QE is making every dollar bill cheaper

Have you noticed that the almighty Dollar is being pushed out of its status as the world's reserve currency?  There are also countries bypassing the Dollar The global community will always consider gold as currency.

"Dark times lie ahead for the U.S. dollar as its future as the world's reserve currency looks to be in great jeopardy. For more than 50 years the U.S. dollar has been the chief monetary instrument used by the nations of the world to facilitate trade involving commodities such as petroleum, manufactured products, and gold. But the times are changing and many of these nations, with China at the forefront, are finalizing trade agreements that utilize only their own currencies.

So it appears that the reign of the U.S. dollar as the world's reserve currency will, quite likely, be coming to an end within the next ten years"

Is it true that the US Mint had to temporarily stop minting silver 2 times due to a shortage of silver?  yes or no?

Do you think there is enough physical gold and silver available to cover all the "paper" metals being traded right now?

Personally, I don't trust US treasuries at all.  Nor am I optimistic about our future economy.  I am not a professional. I am a retiree who is merely trying to maintain what wealth we have accumulated over our working years.

BTW, I purchased a little more silver last night.  Historically physical has out-performed stocks.

I think QE is causing a false sense of security in the stock market.

In summary, my opinion is that physical PM will be a good investment for me while I am in the buying mode. 

[dafe1]

Fewer people selling due to the recent drop in price is causing a rise in demand for physical?  Really?

No, it makes it appear that demand is up. The reality is that the demand isn't changing; the bottleneck is the supply coming from the reselling market. Silver itself is not rare nor in a shortage. Thus silver premiums are increasing while the price of silver is declining.

$800 gold? I don't believe it.  But if it falls that low, I will continue to buy. In Asia, people stand for hours to get physical.

Physical is being pushed by QE (among other things).  I won't last forever.  You can't deny the fact that QE is making every dollar bill cheaper

Have you noticed that the almighty Dollar is being pushed out of its status as the world's reserve currency?  There are also countries bypassing the Dollar The global community will always consider gold as currency.

"Dark times lie ahead for the U.S. dollar as its future as the world's reserve currency looks to be in great jeopardy. For more than 50 years the U.S. dollar has been the chief monetary instrument used by the nations of the world to facilitate trade involving commodities such as petroleum, manufactured products, and gold. But the times are changing and many of these nations, with China at the forefront, are finalizing trade agreements that utilize only their own currencies.

So it appears that the reign of the U.S. dollar as the world's reserve currency will, quite likely, be coming to an end within the next ten years"

Is it true that the US Mint had to temporarily stop minting silver 2 times due to a shortage of silver?  yes or no?

Do you think there is enough physical gold and silver available to cover all the "paper" metals being traded right now?

Personally, I don't trust US treasuries at all.  Nor am I optimistic about our future economy.  I am not a professional. I am a retiree who is merely trying to maintain what wealth we have accumulated over our working years.

BTW, I purchased a little more silver last night.  Historically physical has out-performed stocks.

I think QE is causing a false sense of security in the stock market.

In summary, my opinion is that physical PM will be a good investment for me while I am in the buying mode. 

I don't think you fully grasp how QE works. In a nutshell, gold and silver were both driven up by a mass fear of inflation and economic collapse. You saw this specifically in the fall of 2011. Since then the dollar has been strengthening (fact) and inflation has been low (fact). Certainly there has been some inflation but nothing even near what could threaten economic collapse.

As a result we've seen gold and silver both trend down. Since January of this year Bernanke and the Fed have been saying they will end QE at some point. On May 22nd they said it would end sooner rather than later, possibly during the next 3 fed meetings which are in June, July, and September.

This is important because once the fed goes through with this change in monetary policy you will see a lot of investors get out of gold and silver. Without the QE threat of inflation they lose their primary reason of being in a safe-haven or hedging against the dollar/collapse/inflation/etc. What happens? They get out. You'll see a massive discrepancy between the supply and demand of gold/silver and that will cause the market to collapse on itself going down to true support levels.

The idea that the U.S. is going to collapse, the dollar is going to lose reserve status, etc are all fairy tales being sold to you by... drumroll... people that make a living from selling gold/silver or doom and gloom fiction books.

Certain countries have traded in currencies other than the dollar the past few years because the dollar has been WEAK. Why did so many large corporations, funds, and individuals move money overseas in 06-07? Because they knew the dollar was going to be devalued and their capital would be safer ANYWHERE else.

The dollar has been strengthening. The U.S. is still 25% of the world's GDP. Every other major currency is devaluing much more than the U.S. - and we're tightening up soon. That's the basics, but just know that economies are cyclical. We'll come out of this recession and gold/silver will (are) tank. We'll have another recession down the road.

TLDR: Don't buy gold and silver now.

[snoblind]

Hmm, Dafe is that why the US mint is on track to sell its largest amount of Silver Eagles this year?

[dafe1]

Hmm, Dafe is that why the US mint is on track to sell its largest amount of Silver Eagles this year?

Their sales are comparable to 2011's right now. There's a few things wrong with looking at the US mint and assuming that their sales are indicative of the overall market. It's also not logical to assume that becuse there exists a specific demand (American, individual, American Eagle) that the market will go up as a result.

Because silver is going down there is less existing silver coins being sold back into the market. People are holding out for better prices and not selling. Where do dealers and telemarketers turn to for their supply when they can't buy large amount from clients? The US mint!

With rules governing IRAs, reportability, and a newish artificial modern bullion collectible market American eagles are being seen in much greater demand than other types of silver. What is the demand for maple leafs, bars, junk silver, etc? Is there any evidence to suggest that demand in other areas of silver is higher than before? What are the large funds doing? What are governments doing?

The bottom line is that there is no shortage of silver. The US mint is one of the most profitable government agencies around and exists to sell AEs for a profit. Telemarketers are selling larger percentage of AEs than other forms of silver at this point in time due to a number of reasons. Yes, American Eagles are in demand similar to 2011. Where is silver at today? 22.50 that's where. The demand for SAEs in 2011 didn't make silver go up - that doesn't make sense. It doesn't have an effect now. It won't in The future.

[dafe1]

Give me a real reason why silver is going up. None of this telemarketers are selling American eagles to idiots crap. Give me a real economic reason grounded in fact.

Tell me why the dollar will be going down. Tell me why there is going to be runaway inflation. Tell me scary events are in the pipeline that will wreak havoc on the economy. Everything else is irrelevant when it comes to gold and silver going up.

Edit: it will go up eventually. It will never go to zero. It will always be worth something. I get the advantages of owning physical silver and I do believe in diversification; the point I'm trying to make though is that it's not necessarily a good investment right now given trends in the economy and outlook for the dollar.

[007 License To Squeal]

Tell me why the dollar will be going down. Tell me why there is going to be runaway inflation. Tell me scary events are in the pipeline that will wreak havoc on the economy.

Easy-  QE is the answer to all your questions  Inflation lags QE, but it always follows.

Unemployment is not even close to 7.5.  The numbers are being falsely presented to the American people.......and you know it.   This is the most corrupt administration in history.  The future is very dim for our economy.  However, if I were in the business of peddling stocks, I would never admit that.  But since I have to look at the track record of global assets, I see precious metals have a long history of  GAINING value.  PMs are in a slump at the moment, but I am not looking for a short gain.  I'm holding and slowing increasing.

[dafe1]

QE is going to be winding down. We'll know more over the next. 3 fed meetings in June July and September. I would not be shocked to see them unroll this plan to incrementally end QE in one of those meetings.

That being said, QE does not mean economic crash. Inflation does not mean economic crash. Inflation and deflation both are fine in moderation. Hell, the dollar has been strengthening.

Was gold a good investment at $800/oz in 1980? No. It's gained, but less than the rate of inflation. End the end has it "held value"? NO. Was gold a good investment in the early 80s in the low-mid 300s? Meh, you would have done better in other asset classes. Was gold a good investment in the 2000s at 300~/oz? Absofrickinlutely. I'm not against investing in gold or silver. There is a time for it though, and now is not that time. These are commodities!

Thre economy will recover because of the energy industry. Energy independence will make the US more than competitive in manufacturing, ag, transportation, etc. it will drive GDP growth and government revenue.

The world is not ending. The United States is not collapsing because of inflation.

[snoblind]

Their sales are comparable to 2011's right now. There's a few things wrong with looking at the US mint and assuming that their sales are indicative of the overall market. It's also not logical to assume that becuse there exists a specific demand (American, individual, American Eagle) that the market will go up as a result.

Because silver is going down there is less existing silver coins being sold back into the market. People are holding out for better prices and not selling. Where do dealers and telemarketers turn to for their supply when they can't buy large amount from clients? The US mint!

With rules governing IRAs, reportability, and a newish artificial modern bullion collectible market American eagles are being seen in much greater demand than other types of silver. What is the demand for maple leafs, bars, junk silver, etc? Is there any evidence to suggest that demand in other areas of silver is higher than before? What are the large funds doing? What are governments doing?

The bottom line is that there is no shortage of silver. The US mint is one of the most profitable government agencies around and exists to sell AEs for a profit. Telemarketers are selling larger percentage of AEs than other forms of silver at this point in time due to a number of reasons. Yes, American Eagles are in demand similar to 2011. Where is silver at today? 22.50 that's where. The demand for SAEs in 2011 didn't make silver go up - that doesn't make sense. It doesn't have an effect now. It won't in The future.

I don't assume that.

[007 License To Squeal]

Silver over last 20 years

[OldPoop]

The world is not ending.

This seems to be the favorite phrase to denigrate and lunify the people that see problems ahead.   The ONLY people that I have ever heard use the phrase "the world is (not) ending" are the people wearing the rose colored glasses.   The only thing I am aware of that could possibly end the world is a giant asteroid. 

Economic collapse will NOT end the world.  It has happend hundreds of times throughout history and the world is still here and humans are still here and both are still doing very well.

The United States is not collapsing because of inflation.

I have a feeling that the turnaround is immanent.   

Is that a light that I'm seeing at the end of the tunnel?



This is only what the government/banksters admit to.   The real numbers have been hidden for years. 




Looks like there may have been a slight change after 1971 when we officially adopted Monopoly Money as our currency.



(Warning!    A very strange and sad, but very true factoid:
Over the last 4 years I have discovered over and over again that graphs like the ones above, and other similar pieces of information, are completely invisible to the eye and can't be seen when viewed through rose colored glasses.   So years and years of this type of information does not exist for these unfortunates.  IMO that is why they get so frustrated when trying to communicate with those that can see it, and are forced to resort to name calling, "you're insane", "opium den ideas", and "your tin foil hat is on too tight".)

[OldPoop]

[007 License To Squeal]

Because they are expensive!  As Lanny said, he bought some silver because the price fell dramatically--yes, if that happens then we should buy a little.  However, metals are very expensive compared to 10-15 years ago.  Very expensive. 

So are many other things......However, the yield has been pretty good.

[OldPoop]

I bought yesterday at $24.20 and wish I had held off a day.  I didn't know it would fall this low again since when I bought it at $19 3 years ago.

I sold my $22 SLW for $27 today.  I didn't have any below that because I ran out of  colored paper to spend, the crash/sale outlasted my supply of currency.  If it gets to $29 I will sell part of my $23 shares.   If it keeps going up I still have plenty of shares.   However the banksters increased their short positions quite a bit last week in both gold and silver.   I'm going to be ready this time if they take SLW back below $20. It's too depressing to have great bargains dangled in front of your face with no colored paper to spend.  I don't think they are anywhere close to being finished with shaking people loose from their PMs and mining stocks.

[007 License To Squeal]

I recently purchased a few of these 1 Oz. SMLs.  These are simple, but stunning. Very, very polished and elegant. It was hard to get a good pic without a reflection of my camera.

.9999

Nice collector pieces.  I also really like the gold and silver buffalo coins.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[dafe1]

Be careful with modern bullion. There isn't really a secondary collectors market for graded/proof/first strike/etc maple leafs, eagles, etc. It's hard to call it a collector item when there are hundreds of thousands of them and no history of strong secondary markets. Most of the bullion companies charge pretty outrageous premiums that you will never get back.

Just be careful, pay as close to spot as humanly possible for any physical PMs.

[007 License To Squeal]

Be careful with modern bullion. There isn't really a secondary collectors market for graded/proof/first strike/etc maple leafs, eagles, etc. It's hard to call it a collector item when there are hundreds of thousands of them and no history of strong secondary markets. Most of the bullion companies charge pretty outrageous premiums that you will never get back.

Just be careful, pay as close to spot as humanly possible for any physical PMs.

Of course You are correct on all counts.  I prefer to accumulate bullion coins with very little premium. I just happen to like this particular brilliant uncirculated modern coin.

[HognotinMemphis]

Fun to buy pretty things but pretty things are usually not investments. At least not good ones.

[Dr. Leonard Ford]

Fun to buy pretty things but pretty things are usually not investments. At least not good ones.

What about guns?  I have read people on here that buys guns for an investment.  Seems stupid to me.

[007 License To Squeal]

Fun to buy pretty things but pretty things are usually not investments. At least not good ones.

Sometimes.....  At the moment, I'm watching some shiny metals which are pretty AND are increasing in value (at least at the moment).

Tell me, O great HIM.....and everyone else....what is causing the movement in metals at the moment?   Middle East turmoil?  I seriously would like to hear your opinion (if it's worth your time).

[007 License To Squeal]

What about guns?  I have read people on here that buys guns for an investment.  Seems stupid to me.

I think it's all in the mind-set of the investor.  HIM seems, to me, to dislike PMs, even though their volatility could be used to the advantage of some investors.

As for me, I certainly don't even try to speculate or sell. I try to catch PMs on dips, but I hold for the long term.

[Old Tusk]

Fun to buy pretty things but pretty things are usually not investments. At least not good ones.

The returns are a pretty thing too.

[Old Tusk]

Collector grade guns, cars, coinsns., art, etc. have always been used as infation hedges by the wealthy.

[dafe1]

Rare coins are a good investment. Collectible guns, art, etc same thing. But those markets are driven by scarcity and rarity.

[HognotinMemphis]

Sometimes.....  At the moment, I'm watching some shiny metals which are pretty AND are increasing in value (at least at the moment).

Tell me, O great HIM.....and everyone else....what is causing the movement in metals at the moment?   Middle East turmoil?  I seriously would like to hear your opinion (if it's worth your time).

Greater fool. "Uh oh, looks like a country the size of Missouri is unsettled and the US is threatening to be the World's police again. Better load up on gold so I can buy food and water and fuel and clothing in the event the US attacks Syria and it starts WW III."

PM's are trending down over foreseeable future. After Syria blows over, gold and silver heading right back down.

[007 License To Squeal]

PM's are trending down over foreseeable future. After Syria blows over, gold and silver heading right back down.

Go back and do some more research.  PMs are trending upward......$1425 in last qtr of this year.  In addition...

"Gold and Silver prices are trading approximately two percent higher in early-morning trading after concerns over the unrest in Syria and confusion over quantitative easing tapering in the U.S. sent stock futures lower.  Monday, U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry condemned the chemical weapon use by the Syrian government as a "moral obscenity."  Nick Lewis of London Capital Group explained, "Syria has taken over the mantle of market concern.  The increasing political pressure in the States to intervene led U.S. markets lower, and Europe is following."

Marketwatch's Michael Gayed believes that Gold's recent price movements are calling the U.S. Federal Reserve's bluff regarding potential tapering.  He wrote, "The fact that Gold is starting to outperform strongly into the September Fed meeting may mean bets are rising that the Fed will not rock the boat, but instead re-adjust crowd mentality away from cutting back on bond buying. Perception-wise, then, this may mean Gold's strength is anticipating a reversal in yields, more money printing, and another bout of stimulus.""

Must be a lot of greater fools out there.  By the way, I've decided to stop wasting your time, HIM.  It's really hard to have a civil conversation with you......best of luck.

[HognotinMemphis]

Go back and do some more research.  PMs are trending upward......$1425 in last qtr of this year.  In addition...

"Gold and Silver prices are trading approximately two percent higher in early-morning trading after concerns over the unrest in Syria and confusion over quantitative easing tapering in the U.S. sent stock futures lower.  Monday, U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry condemned the chemical weapon use by the Syrian government as a "moral obscenity."  Nick Lewis of London Capital Group explained, "Syria has taken over the mantle of market concern.  The increasing political pressure in the States to intervene led U.S. markets lower, and Europe is following."

Marketwatch's Michael Gayed believes that Gold's recent price movements are calling the U.S. Federal Reserve's bluff regarding potential tapering.  He wrote, "The fact that Gold is starting to outperform strongly into the September Fed meeting may mean bets are rising that the Fed will not rock the boat, but instead re-adjust crowd mentality away from cutting back on bond buying. Perception-wise, then, this may mean Gold's strength is anticipating a reversal in yields, more money printing, and another bout of stimulus.""

Must be a lot of greater fools out there.  By the way, I've decided to stop wasting your time, HIM.  It's really hard to have a civil conversation with you......best of luck.

Who is Michael Gayed? PM expert? You're not wasting my time...you're wasting your time.

[OldPoop]

Go back and do some more research.  PMs are trending upward......$1425 in last qtr of this year.  In addition...

"Gold and Silver prices are trading approximately two percent higher in early-morning trading after concerns over the unrest in Syria and confusion over quantitative easing tapering in the U.S. sent stock futures lower.  Monday, U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry condemned the chemical weapon use by the Syrian government as a "moral obscenity."  Nick Lewis of London Capital Group explained, "Syria has taken over the mantle of market concern.  The increasing political pressure in the States to intervene led U.S. markets lower, and Europe is following."

Marketwatch's Michael Gayed believes that Gold's recent price movements are calling the U.S. Federal Reserve's bluff regarding potential tapering.  He wrote, "The fact that Gold is starting to outperform strongly into the September Fed meeting may mean bets are rising that the Fed will not rock the boat, but instead re-adjust crowd mentality away from cutting back on bond buying. Perception-wise, then, this may mean Gold's strength is anticipating a reversal in yields, more money printing, and another bout of stimulus.""

Must be a lot of greater fools out there.  By the way, I've decided to stop wasting your time, HIM.  It's really hard to have a civil conversation with you......best of luck.

The last 5 years have definitely been a learning experience for me with PMs. 
My basic philosophy of accumulate and hold until the inevitable crash has not changed at all.   But what can happen on the way there is a lot different from what I had originally thought.

Don't put a lot of stock into a couple of % rise due to this or that in the news. (A full out war with Israel is a different matter.)  Wall Street (banksters) controls the government, the Fed, and much of the MSM news.  The only chance you have of making it to the end in PMs is to react to what happens next, not try to predict what happens next.  If prices go up you have two choices, sell a little (if you already have a large core holding that you won't touch) so you can have extra $ to add more to your core holdings on the next downturn, or just sit and hold until the next buying opportunity.  If prices go down your only choice is to buy, if you can afford to.

Stewart Thomson thinks the banksters could just be clearing out shorts in the Funds, and after they are finished with that they could bring the price back down, perhaps lower than before.  He doesn't try to predict what they are going to do, because he doesn't know, so he points out possibilities and how he will react to what eventually happens.

Never forget that you are operating in a manipulated market, so movement in either direction does not have to be logical or make any sense.   Moving the price up and pumping out promising news is a technique the banksters use to appeal to people's greed and to get them to chase after the rising prices, so they can then crash whatever the people are chasing, and take their money.   Since you can't be absolutely sure whether the movement is real or not, just react, don't predict, and don't plop large amounts of money at one time.  If you are expecting PMs to move up a certain amount in a certain amount of time and then they don't, well that's why 1,000s of suckers have already given up and handed their PMs to the banksters, for big loses.  React, don't predict.

For at least 2 or 3 years before the big crash last year I had been reading ST's warnings of how severely the banksters would crash gold to shake people loose and take their money, and their gold.   While I believed him, I didn't really understand until I experienced it and saw it with my own eyes.  Their dumping of 400 tons of paper gold during off hours certainly opened my eyes to the ways of the world, and to their power.  But at the same time they just reinforced my belief that I am doing the right thing.  The laughing, the insults, and the name calling have zero affect on me anymore.

Don't try to talk to Popcorn about PMs (it just doesn't compute in his brain), because the next time prices drop into a good buying zone he will be bragging abut how smart he is and how stupid your are.  Try to ignore him and think about your ultimate goal of accumulating ounces.

[Old Tusk]

OP, I'm surprised you haven't brought up that China and Japan reduced their US Treasury holdings 5 months in a row. The signs keep coming.

[HognotinMemphis]

OP, I'm surprised you haven't brought up that China and Japan reduced their US Treasury holdings 5 months in a row. The signs keep coming.

Two peas in a pod.

[Old Tusk]

Two peas in a pod.

Yawn!

[007 License To Squeal]

If prices go up you have two choices, sell a little (if you already have a large core holding that you won't touch) so you can have extra $ to add more to your core holdings on the next downturn, or just sit and hold until the next buying opportunity.  If prices go down your only choice is to buy, if you can afford to.

Try to ignore him and think about your ultimate goal of accumulating ounces.

100% on the money!  That is, in my mind, the best strategy for PMs at this point.  I have no need to sell in foreseeable future.  I plan to hold for the long term. As far a the character you mentioned, I'm finished .

[Old Tusk]

The FED says it wants to hold inflation to 2%. Most people believe inflation means the price of things is going up, but reality is the dollar is being devalued. As long as the dollar continues to be devalued, PMs are an important part of a portfolio. People who say PMs are stupid ignore history and the currency war which is going on now. In order to maintain a steady dollar, our balance of trade must be zero. The last time our balance was zero was 1970. While Wall Street Talking Heads tell us 'all is well', the more sure I become that this will not end well.

[HognotinMemphis]

Here you go OP. Some ammo for your insatiable desire for and belief in the investment quality of silver. This "Profit Confidential" sounds like an outfit you would put a lot of faith in:

"The call of the day: Silver is due for a double , says Profit Confidential's Mike Lombardi. "Yes, prices for the white precious metal are down for the year, but after breaking below $19.00 an ounce, they quickly recovered and found support," he said, adding that they always bounce back from there. Lombardi said that gold would need to hit $2,800 an ounce for bullion prices to double. Silver would only need to hit $46 an ounce, and it was hovering around that level in 2011."

I remember when silver was around $10/oz in 1980-81. At $19/oz, not even a double in over 30 years.