What has Pel done to be fired???

[ThrillaHog]

I guess maybe I must be crazy, but What has Coach Pel done to Start up all this new coach talk? He won a NCAA Tourney game last year, And now he has a team full of young players, who do not mature over night. People are running around here talking about having sources, who claim all is lost. What has he done that is so bad? People in the know why don't you tell the people who don't know anything what is going on so we could at least understand why u feel this way. Keeping all these secrets is just crazy. Don't You know that rumor and speculation can hurt the program just as much as factual info coming out?? What has Pel done?? I know the team is struggling but what has PEL done to make u think he cant turn this around??

[thirtythree]

+1.

[newera]

I'm pretty interested to hear the answer too... Mods?

[Marshfieldhog]

2 and 14. Working on becomong thug u. Poor recruiting is a few reasons.

[Hoggy1]

2 and 14. Working on becomong thug u. Poor recruiting is a few reasons.

yea, this is a good starting point.

[HawgWild]

I guess maybe I must be crazy, but What has Coach Pel done to Start up all this new coach talk?

For starters, having the most conferences losses ever, in the history of the basketball program. Worst SEC record ever. And, the worst home loss in the last 50 years. Not saying any of these are fireable offenses but it can definitely prime the pump don't you think?

[3kgthog]

Long story short: Fortson suspended, Henry suspended, Moore arrested, McDonald ousted, Welsh and Ostrum involved in fisticuffs. Did I miss anything?

[WilsonHog]

I don't know that he's done anything to be fired. That's ultimately why we have Jeff Long.

As I posted in another thread, if Long is concerned it is more with off-court behavior than on-court results.

This is as good a place to ask this question as any: what is the magic in 3-5 years?

By that I mean if you hire someone in your business is it an automatic that they get 3-5 years before you'll seriously look at making a change? If so, why?

Take Kentucky for example. Why wouldn't it be perfectly fine, if the evidence so indicates, for their AD to say, "Hey, Billy Gillispie may be a fine coach, but he's just not what we need."

[thirtythree]

yeah. The link where TO and Welsh were in a fist fight.

[mathhog]

I don't know that he's done anything to be fired. That's ultimately why we have Jeff Long.

As I posted in another thread, if Long is concerned it is more with off-court behavior than on-court results.

This is as good a place to ask this question as any: what is the magic in 3-5 years?

By that I mean if you hire someone in your business is it an automatic that they get 3-5 years before you'll seriously look at making a change? If so, why?

Take Kentucky for example. Why wouldn't it be perfectly fine, if the evidence so indicates, for their AD to say, "Hey, Billy Gillispie may be a fine coach, but he's just not what we need."

the 3-5 in basketball is a minimum because that's what it takes to get your pieces in place to do your kind of coaching.

has anyone on this board actually seen game tape of pelphrey when he was at south alabama?  does anyone have a clue what kind of game he coaches, offense, defense, etc?   did you know when South Alabama made the NCAA's with like 26 wins in 2006, their defense was basically Man-to-Man defense?  And did you know that now, at arkansas, in 2009, we play mostly Zone defense?  does anyone ask WHY we are playing zone right now?  does anyone look at the roster and start counting before they proclaim "we play zone b/c pel is a bad coach"?

These are kind of questions that this board should be asking, not "should we fire him", but "are the pieces coming in 09 and '10 that pel needs". 

And yes, it takes a few years to get those pieces here.  Pel was hired in LATE APRIL 2007.... after a Day-long Altman head coach.  And yet, recruiting wise, he still manages (ostrum actually, imagine that) to land Fortson & Clarke & Henry. 

It takes 3-5 years because sometimes the pieces you count on (AJ walton, the haters' favorite example) don't work out for logical reasons: why would walton come to UA and be BACKUP point guard behind Fortson until AJ's senior year? same with gulley.  Why would James Anderson go anywhere other than OkState, when his coach since age 8 has been practically forcing the Cowboys on James? 

Add in some of those 'other reasons', with poor academics, and you have some time to get things rolling.

Basically, i call bull on ANYONE'S 'inside sources' that say pel is gone this year.  As far as i know, ZERO mods have said he's gone this year, just that off-the-court issues need to be cleaned up.  Obviously.  Why did Dana leave after a day?

(and no, wilson, those questions above weren't aimed at you so don't ban me either, i'm just saying, these are the LEGITIMATE reasons and questions fans needs to ask with a new coach -- unlike a business, a new coach often is changing EVERYTHING.  the comparison with business stuff would be going from a liberal Democrat governor to a conservative Republican governor and vice versa; major changes of everything)

[WilsonHog]

the 3-5 in basketball is a minimum because that's what it takes to get your pieces in place to do your kind of coaching.

has anyone on this board actually seen game tape of pelphrey when he was at south alabama?  does anyone have a clue what kind of game he coaches, offense, defense, etc?   did you know when South Alabama made the NCAA's with like 26 wins in 2006, their defense was basically Man-to-Man defense?  And did you know that now, at arkansas, in 2009, we play mostly Zone defense?  does anyone ask WHY we are playing zone right now?  does anyone look at the roster and start counting before they proclaim "we play zone b/c pel is a bad coach"?

These are kind of questions that this board should be asking, not "should we fire him", but "are the pieces coming in 09 and '10 that pel needs". 

And yes, it takes a few years to get those pieces here.  Pel was hired in LATE APRIL 2007.... after a Day-long Altman head coach.  And yet, recruiting wise, he still manages (ostrum actually, imagine that) to land Fortson & Clarke & Henry. 

It takes 3-5 years because sometimes the pieces you count on (AJ walton, the haters' favorite example) don't work out for logical reasons: why would walton come to UA and be BACKUP point guard behind Fortson until AJ's senior year? same with gulley.  Why would James Anderson go anywhere other than OkState, when his coach since age 8 has been practically forcing the Cowboys on James? 

Add in some of those 'other reasons', with poor academics, and you have some time to get things rolling.

Basically, i call bull on ANYONE'S 'inside sources' that say pel is gone this year.  As far as i know, ZERO mods have said he's gone this year, just that off-the-court issues need to be cleaned up.  Obviously.  Why did Dana leave after a day?

(and no, wilson, those questions above weren't aimed at you so don't ban me either, i'm just saying, these are the LEGITIMATE reasons and questions fans needs to ask with a new coach -- unlike a business, a new coach often is changing EVERYTHING.  the comparison with business stuff would be going from a liberal Democrat governor to a conservative Republican governor and vice versa; major changes of everything)

Why would I ban you for that? You didn't attack/bash/ridicule any other poster.

I agree with your first statement about 3-5 years solely with regard to on-court coaching and personnel issues, but I don't believe those two amount to the whole equation.

[The_Iceman]

Losing:

Sonny Weems
Darian Townes
Patrick Beverley
Steven Hill
Charles Thomas
Vincent Hunter
Gary Ervin
Marcus Monk
Montrell McDonald

...is definately not a reason to fire him.

-To have one of your best players, Jason Henry, miss alot of time with a knee injury and currently playing while not 100% isn't reason to fire him.
-To have to start 2 true freshmen at PG and SG in the SEC (who both still are averaging over 10 ppg) isnt reason to fire him.
-To have Welsh and Washington as the only returning players who neither averaged more than 5 ppg last year isnt reason to fire him.
-To have 3 freshmen post players in Sanchez, Moore, and Clark, who all have alot of work to do this off-season and would benefit from an offseason workout schedule isnt reason to fire him.

Now, there are plenty of reasons to fire him. Like:
-not teaching Wash a drop-step move off his right foot to counter his hook shot of the right shoulder
-not playing Clark and Moore more to get them ready for the SEC season
-the multiple off the court problems
-losing multiple leads at the end of games on route to a 2-14 SEC record
-the lack of recruiting this offseason and not taking advantage of a good season last year

[NEAHawgfan]

Losing:

Sonny Weems
Darian Townes
Patrick Beverley
Steven Hill
Charles Thomas
Vincent Hunter
Gary Ervin
Marcus Monk
Montrell McDonald

...is definately not a reason to fire him.

-To have one of your best players, Jason Henry, miss alot of time with a knee injury and currently playing while not 100% isn't reason to fire him.
-To have to start 2 true freshmen at PG and SG in the SEC (who both still are averaging over 10 ppg) isnt reason to fire him.
-To have Welsh and Washington as the only returning players who neither averaged more than 5 ppg last year isnt reason to fire him.
-To have 3 freshmen post players in Sanchez, Moore, and Clark, who all have alot of work to do this off-season and would benefit from an offseason workout schedule isnt reason to fire him.

Now, there are plenty of reasons to fire him. Like:
-not teaching Wash a drop-step move off his right foot to counter his hook shot of the right shoulder
-not playing Clark and Moore more to get them ready for the SEC season
-the multiple off the court problems
-losing multiple leads at the end of games on route to a 2-14 SEC record
-the lack of recruiting this offseason and not taking advantage of a good season last year

Good post. I guess my problem with pel is the obvious......this team is worse now than they were in November and December. That's HIS fault and no one elses. He's the coach, it's his responsibility. That having been said, firing him would send a very bad message to any other coach that might be able to come here and prosper. I have no problem with giving him some time (of course it's not up to me) but by the same token if he leaves on his own, the beer's on me!

[ruarealhogfan]

Losing:

Sonny Weems
Darian Townes
Patrick Beverley
Steven Hill
Charles Thomas
Vincent Hunter
Gary Ervin
Marcus Monk
Montrell McDonald

...is definately not a reason to fire him.

-To have one of your best players, Jason Henry, miss alot of time with a knee injury and currently playing while not 100% isn't reason to fire him.
-To have to start 2 true freshmen at PG and SG in the SEC (who both still are averaging over 10 ppg) isnt reason to fire him.
-To have Welsh and Washington as the only returning players who neither averaged more than 5 ppg last year isnt reason to fire him.
-To have 3 freshmen post players in Sanchez, Moore, and Clark, who all have alot of work to do this off-season and would benefit from an offseason workout schedule isnt reason to fire him.

Now, there are plenty of reasons to fire him. Like:
-not teaching Wash a drop-step move off his right foot to counter his hook shot of the right shoulder
-not playing Clark and Moore more to get them ready for the SEC season
-the multiple off the court problems
-losing multiple leads at the end of games on route to a 2-14 SEC record
-the lack of recruiting this offseason and not taking advantage of a good season last year

The thing I don't understand is why you guys are all over him about the recruiting (other than the fact we are losing now).  After the last offseason & after we beat Texas & OU even Porkatarian was saying that Powell & Farmer would be quality starters at SF & PF next year & that all Pel needed was to add a backup PG. b/c Welsh cannot play the point, and a juco player to fill out our scholarships & alot of the same people now saying he can't recruit agreed. My question is what changed about that?  He tried his ass off to get a 5* recruit in here, but so did every other SEC school & guess what the entire conference managed to land 2. Since he's been here he has signed 5- 4* & 4- 3* star players (before you say it, that does not include Payne, McDonald or Rakestraw) that are currently either a redshirt frosh, a true frosh or an incoming frosh. If you think that all of that young talent is not going to get better it's b/c you don't want to.  So they have some issues, Pel had to get talent in here.  Some have said they would rather have the kids with no issues & less talent, but in the next sentence talk trash about Sanchez (who to my knowledge is a good kid) Yeah it does suck to be 2-14, but just like in football, we got blown the f out in some games &  yeah we could have been 4-12 if we had gotten a couple of calls or hit one more shot, but a rebuilding season is a rebuilding season either way. 

[ThrillaHog]

Quote from:HawgWild

For starters, having the most conferences losses ever, in the history of the basketball program. Worst SEC record ever. And, the worst home loss in the last 50 years. Not saying any of these are fireable offenses but it can definitely prime the pump don't you think?

It would pump me up if this were his 3rd or 4th year.

Firing him in his second year is just crazy and sets us back even more. Instant Gratification is not Reality. Has Pel been reprimanded by Jeff Long for any of this off the court trouble the board is talking about? If not give the man time to do his job, We have to be patient.

[thirtythree]

That's what I can't get. What's wrong with this class coming in. The biggest thing I heard was if they are going to make it to campus or not. It appears that they will, so what gives.

How do we know they haven't taught players what to do? Hell, I've coached kids the right way to do things for several years and some still forget it. They forget it when they are in the pros. If every person did what they were supposed to do every time then nothing would ever go wrong. Guess what? Not happening.

I agree with only one of the reasons to fire him:

-the multiple off the court problems

That's only if they are true and as bad as the rumors say they are.

The losing multiple leads thing, it happens. Tne biggest contributor is due to lack of quality depth and being tired.

[PorkRyan]

The other side of this would be, "What has Pel done to deserve to coach at Arkansas"?

[Piglet Dispersion Syndrome]

We've lost 14 of our last 16 games, but I still think he'll right the boat. The biggest difference I see between him and Stan H., is that with Stan you couldn't tell that he was that upset about losing, you know he was, he just wasn't as demonstrative about it.  With Pel, he shows his displeasure more, which I like, but is still staying positive to the team.  You've got to, what other choice do you give your team?  "Hey you guys are worthless SOB's!"  No, he's doing the right thing. Let's face it, Nolan ain't coming back through that door, Corliss is not coming back through that door, and if you think Larry Bird is coming back through that door, you've got another thing comin....

[thirtythree]

The other side of this would be, "What has Pel done to deserve to coach at Arkansas"?

That's the part of the equation that doesn't matter because he "IS" the coach of the Razorbacks. Apparently he had a very good interview and aggreed to a contract to coach the team.

[daprospecta]

The thing I don't understand is why you guys are all over him about the recruiting (other than the fact we are losing now).  After the last offseason & after we beat Texas & OU even Porkatarian was saying that Powell & Farmer would be quality starters at SF & PF next year & that all Pel needed was to add a backup PG. b/c Welsh cannot play the point, and a juco player to fill out our scholarships & alot of the same people now saying he can't recruit agreed. My question is what changed about that?  He tried his ass off to get a 5* recruit in here, but so did every other SEC school & guess what the entire conference managed to land 2. Since he's been here he has signed 5- 4* & 4- 3* star players (before you say it, that does not include Payne, McDonald or Rakestraw) that are currently either a redshirt frosh, a true frosh or an incoming frosh. If you think that all of that young talent is not going to get better it's b/c you don't want to.  So they have some issues, Pel had to get talent in here.  Some have said they would rather have the kids with no issues & less talent, but in the next sentence talk trash about Sanchez (who to my knowledge is a good kid) Yeah it does suck to be 2-14, but just like in football, we got blown the f out in some games &  yeah we could have been 4-12 if we had gotten a couple of calls or hit one more shot, but a rebuilding season is a rebuilding season either way. 

You make some good points except one, comparing the football team's situation compared to the basketball's situation.  We all know that the fb team will be good next year because the recruiting has DEFINITELY filled the required holes, I kinda feel like the bb team has not filled them but kinda just filled them halfway. If we had a banging(Good) recruiting class next year....no one would mention Pel's name on the Hot Set....not the case im afraid.......just not the case

[chiefsfan]

You make some good points except one, comparing the football team's situation compared to the basketball's situation.  We all know that the fb team will be good next year because the recruiting has DEFINITELY filled the required holes,

huh?    No one has any idea whether or not Football will be any good next year.  its still a young team playing a tremendously tough schedule

[Oliver]

huh?    No one has any idea whether or not Football will be any good next year.  its still a young team playing a tremendously tough schedule

We know that the football program has a coach that has succeeded at taking a program to a BCS bowl game.  He's had big success at another college program...and not one where it's easy to win at. 

This is just one of the reason's why most fans feel more comfortable with the future of the football program than with the future of the basketball program.

[MaxMaloney]

Nothing.  Of course, Stan Heath didn't do anything to get fired either.  I'd argue that Nolan didn't do anything to get fired either, given his track record.  Heck, I'd say more than half the coaches that get fired around the country didn't deserve it.  It's just that some fans have unrealistic expectations, expecting you to win right away, no matter the circumstances. 

Was this a terrible season?  Yes.  Has Pelphrey made mistakes? Sure.  But you don't fire a guy unless you're pretty sure you can get someone better.  That's not the case right now.

[SultanofSwine]

I think the more important question to ask is does he get one more year or 3. If the answer is one,  then you pull the trigger now. Otherwise he needs to get 3 more to get through the recruitment of one of the best classes in this state in a long time and a year with them playing.

Staff issues, off the court issues, recruitment of of guys with apparent character issues that contribute to the off court stuff, recruitment of guys with serious grade issues that may not make it, recruitment of guys who offer no prospect of immediate help when that is a glaring need, and lots of other issues point to the possibility that he jumped into a situation he was not prepared to handle.

I have wanted him to succeed from day one and hope he does but this year has certainly raised my brows as to whether or not he can. He is young, has fire, understands the tradition and understands what it takes to win. Can he shake up the staff and the roster and turn this thing around? Who knows.

[PoormansRobbyHampton]

the 3-5 in basketball is a minimum because that's what it takes to get your pieces in place to do your kind of coaching.

So Stan Heath should never have been fired then? Why was Heath let go? Because he didn't luck into the type of players that Pelphrey did when he took over? Because he only rebuilt the program?

[jkstock04]

huh?    No one has any idea whether or not Football will be any good next year.  its still a young team playing a tremendously tough schedule

The football team WILL be much improved next year.  It's obvious Petrino isn't gonna need 4-5 seasons to get this thing turned around.  He runs a very disciplined, business like program...and his recruiting class is what gave most of us fans hope for next season.  I can see the light at the end of the tunnel.  I can't see it with the basketball team...not yet.  I see more of the same next season. 

[HawgAdvocate]

The football team WILL be much improved next year.  It's obvious Petrino isn't gonna need 4-5 seasons to get this thing turned around.  He runs a very disciplined, business like program...and his recruiting class is what gave most of us fans hope for next season.  I can see the light at the end of the tunnel.  I can't see it with the basketball team...not yet.  I see more of the same next season. 

We all hope so, but nothing is guaranteed. Our star QB needs to stay out of trouble. And I don't just mean with alcohol or drugs.

[tophawg19]

i've supported him and argued for 1 more year but 1 thing has become clear . we have three players who belong in the sec. washington [ not a pel recruit] , fortson , and henry . rot could make some of the teams . clarke and moore might eventually develop into players but we needed serious help now . this incoming class doesn't look to be that. i don't see much to tel me next year will be that much better . we are still going to be baddly outmanned.

[jkstock04]

We all hope so, but nothing is guaranteed. Our star QB needs to stay out of trouble. And I don't just mean with alcohol or drugs.

I agree.  I have my questions about him also.  This is why I hated to see Nathan Dick transfer.  And I would bet you anything if he screws up again, Petrino will show him the door.  He seems to be a no nonsense type of coach to me. 

[HawgAdvocate]

i've supported him and argued for 1 more year but 1 thing has become clear . we have three players who belong in the sec. washington [ not a pel recruit] , fortson , and henry . rot could make some of the teams . clarke and moore might eventually develop into players but we needed serious help now . this incoming class doesn't look to be that. i don't see much to tel me next year will be that much better . we are still going to be baddly outmanned.

Rotnei averages double figures, and you don't think he's an SEC player?

We have a relentless 4* PF coming in, along with a 6'5" expereinced SG/SF, and you don't think those two, plus a 7'0" (project or not, it's another big body)and whoever else we offer with our other scholly, can help?

We have plenty of kids who belong in the SEC. We just don't have enough starting talent at the moment. Sanchez, Welsh, and Rotnei really shouldn't be starters. Rot and Sanchez are freshman who were forced into these roles due to class breakdown. They'll get better over time. Not a lot teams start this many freshman.

[donewithdale]

Answer to the original question:  2-14 in the SEC

Off the court issues, recruiting, ... Nothing else would matter if we were at least on the NCAA bubble right now.  Now that we are losing, fans start using comments like Thug U.  Do you think we are recruiting a different type of kid now than we have for 30 years?

[PoormansRobbyHampton]

Rotnei averages double figures, and you don't think he's an SEC player?

We have a relentless 4* PF coming in, along with a 6'5" expereinced SG/SF, and you don't think those two, plus a 7'0" (project or not, it's another big body)and whoever else we offer with our other scholly, can help?

We have plenty of kids who belong in the SEC. We just don't have enough starting talent at the moment. Sanchez, Welsh, and Rotnei really shouldn't be starters. Rot and Sanchez are freshman who were forced into these roles due to class breakdown. They'll get better over time. Not a lot teams start this many freshman.

Something like 55% of Vanderbilt's scoring is from freshmen and they have no seniors this year. And they play in the East which is tougher than the West. What's their SEC record? 8-8. And they recruit with academic standards. What's the difference between our team and theirs?

[HogBreath]

We all hope so, but nothing is guaranteed. Our star QB needs to stay out of trouble. And I don't just mean with alcohol or drugs.

Sometimes your comments make me wonder just how much of a hog advocate you really are.

[donewithdale]

Something like 55% of Vanderbilt's scoring is from freshmen and they have no seniors this year. And they play in the East which is tougher than the West. What's their SEC record? 8-8. And they recruit with academic standards. What's the difference between our team and theirs?

Size and depth - a couple of important things in basketball.  They have capable players at all 5 spots on the floor.  Their top 2 scoring guards are 6-3 and their 3 is 6-7 and avg 12 ppg. 

[HawgAdvocate]

Something like 55% of Vanderbilt's scoring is from freshmen and they have no seniors this year. And they play in the East which is tougher than the West. What's their SEC record? 8-8. And they recruit with academic standards. What's the difference between our team and theirs?

#1 - We're not Vandy or Ole Miss. Using the "they did it so why can't we" argument is pointless and flawed.

#2 - Vandy's top two scorers are not freshman. Their 3rd and 4th are.

#3 - Vandy has 8 players from last year's team still on the roster

#4 - Their current roster has a good mix of size and length.

#5 - Stallings isn't in his 2nd year at the school.

[PoormansRobbyHampton]

Size and depth - a couple of important things in basketball.  They have capable players at all 5 spots on the floor.  Their top 2 scoring guards are 6-3 and their 3 is 6-7 and avg 12 ppg.

Ok, that's a good answer. And I respect it. So why doesn't our head coach get some size on the perimeter? Surely he knows that a  5'11 guy and a 6'0 guy wouldn't be the best defenders, right?

[HawgAdvocate]

Sometimes your comments make me wonder just how much of a hog advocate you really are.

I'll always keep it real. Some things on our QB aren't known to the public. Don't bother PMing me, I'm not talking.

[tophawg19]

again unless we get some true impact players not much will change . name me 1 player who could make the second team on duke or north carolina ? i'm not talking about starting just making the two deep roster

[HawgAdvocate]

again unless we get some true impact players not much will change . name me 1 player who could make the second team on duke or north carolina ? i'm not talking about starting just making the two deep roster

If Powell is the #16 PF in the country (as he's rated), and UNC took in #19 and #20 (as they have), does that not mean anything?

http://rivalshoops.rivals.com/quicklist.asp?School=&Sport=2&DPosition=31&Position=21&Year=2009&qs=1

[PoormansRobbyHampton]

#1 - We're not Vandy or Ole Miss. Using the "they did it so why can't we" argument is pointless and flawed.

#2 - Vandy's top two scorers are not freshman. Their 3rd and 4th are.

#3 - Vandy has 8 players from last year's team still on the roster

#4 - Their current roster has a good mix of size and length.

#5 - Stallings isn't in his 2nd year at the school.

#1) Well why is it flawed exactly? Ole Miss plays the same schedule as us. They were hit by injuries, they lost four players, 3 of which I know were starters. What's flawed about that? Kennedy just did more with less.

#2) Ok. Washington leads our team in scoring (thank you Stan Heath) and Welsh is 4th it looks like with 11.7 ppg, (.5 behind Clarke). So our leading scorer is an upperclassman and our fourth leading scorer is also. Not much difference there. This is a legitimate point.

#3) This is a fine point, and I agree with it. As far as on-court contributions though, where are they?

#4) Who's bringing in the size? Again the depth argument I can somewhat buy, but size? Why bring in a 6'0 guy and a 5'11 guy when you know it's going to lead to perimeter problems? Pel didn't have enough time to scout?

#5) What's the difference? Pel's coached before, it's basically the same game. "alright fellas, let's score some points". Some of us were worried about losing this guy to Kentucky, now him only being in his second year is an issue? And what about Kentucky? They're looking at Gillespie like he may not be the savior they hoped he would be. They point to his two year record and his upcoming recruiting class. Kentucky's class (on Rivals, I'm not sure if that's the 'best' site to look at) is ranked 14th, we're nowhere to be found.

[PoormansRobbyHampton]

If Powell is the #16 PF in the country (as he's rated), and UNC took in #19 and #20 (as they have), does that not mean anything?

http://rivalshoops.rivals.com/quicklist.asp?School=&Sport=2&DPosition=31&Position=21&Year=2009&qs=1

Well, they got the next two. Two players of similar capibilities is better than one that may be slightly better. As HDN use to say, we'd be able to say "next" if we had those two.

Btw, I realize that North Carolina vs. Arkansas isn't even close to being fair or anything, I'm just saying.

[ruarealhogfan]

If Powell is the #16 PF in the country (as he's rated), and UNC took in #19 and #20 (as they have), does that not mean anything?

http://rivalshoops.rivals.com/quicklist.asp?School=&Sport=2&DPosition=31&Position=21&Year=2009&qs=1

With all the whining about losing trent I didn't realize he was only rated at 3* & BELOW powell

[Hawgon]

What has he done to keep the job?  That is the better question.

I don't necessarily want him fired and I'm certainly not advocating that he be fired, but if Jeff Long decides it needs to happen, I'm okay with it.

Pelphrey has put himself in this position.  We had numerous off the court issues.  There have been mysterious suspensions.  There has been discord on the team.  And our conference record is just about our worst ever, certainly the worst in nearly 40 years.  That sort of performance is certainly enough to get someone fired.  The only reason there is even a question that he may not get fired is because this is only his second year.

Pelphrey could turn it around next year, but there can be no question that he failed horribly this year.  Jeff Long could have picked anyone out of the Fayetteville phone book and they could have won as many games in the SEC as Pel did this year.

[mathhog]

Ok, that's a good answer. And I respect it. So why doesn't our head coach get some size on the perimeter? Surely he knows that a  5'11 guy and a 6'0 guy wouldn't be the best defenders, right?

Great idea!  When was pel supposed to get his pick of the 6'7" Lebron-sized guards, was that late in recruiting on May 1 a few days after he was hired, or April 30, a few weeks after UA had a "one day coach" in dana altman.

The fact that Fortson and Clarke and Henry came here during such a shoddy down time for the UA speaks volumes about Pel's recruiting.  And now, this year, our problem is lack of bigs.   So what does pel do?  He lands powell, farmer, borden.   

And yet, the haters STILL @#$%@ about "we have a terrible 09 class". 

No, we don't.  we have the pieces that we need coming in next year.

[tophawg19]

if we haven't got a player who could make the 2 deep on the good teams how can you expect to win many more games ? as for powell i don't give much credit to the # of stars until they prove it on the court. with no real inside game and poor shooting [ 18 % ] in the second half against vandy . i just can't see a light at the end of the tunnel being anything but a train.

[PoormansRobbyHampton]

Great idea!  When was pel supposed to get his pick of the 6'7" Lebron-sized guards, was that late in recruiting on May 1 a few days after he was hired, or April 30, a few weeks after UA had a "one day coach" in dana altman.

The fact that Fortson and Clarke and Henry came here during such a shoddy down time for the UA speaks volumes about Pel's recruiting.  And now, this year, our problem is lack of bigs.   So what does pel do?  He lands powell, farmer, borden.   

And yet, the haters STILL @#$%@ about "we have a terrible 09 class". 

No, we don't.  we have the pieces that we need coming in next year.

This was technically his second class, so yes, he should have been able to pick and choose and a little bigger perimeter player. Henry could be that, but he didn't play much down the stretch for whatever reason.

[mathhog]

#1) Well why is it flawed exactly? Ole Miss plays the same schedule as us. They were hit by injuries, they lost four players, 3 of which I know were starters. What's flawed about that? Kennedy just did more with less.

beats me.  but their stellar 6-10 record isn't that much better than our own. sure, call me sunshine, but we were mighty close to having much more than 2 sec wins, surely even you can see that.  if the refs weren't babying the bubble teams at south carolina on the last play, if welsh OR mikewash makes that layup against tennessee, either lsu game home or away, home against ole miss, we were a few shots from literally being 7-9.  just take half those as wins and we're 5-11, better than the typical 'last in the west'.   i don't know why ole miss gets some breaks and we don't.  stan heath used to say it was SEC payback for nolan's success and there was an actual 'screw arkansas' practice among the league.  i wont go that far, but we've been unlucky on getting breaks for years.

#2) Ok. Washington leads our team in scoring (thank you Stan Heath) and Welsh is 4th it looks like with 11.7 ppg, (.5 behind Clarke). So our leading scorer is an upperclassman and our fourth leading scorer is also. Not much difference there. This is a legitimate point.

ok, wow. wash averages 15.5 a game and forston averages 15.0 a game.  basically a freshman is TIED for first in scoring with a junior.  another nice example is minutes.  our #1 and #2 and #5 minute getters are freshmen.  as for scoring, We have #1, #4, #5, and #6 as freshmen

#4) Who's bringing in the size? Again the depth argument I can somewhat buy, but size? Why bring in a 6'0 guy and a 5'11 guy when you know it's going to lead to perimeter problems? Pel didn't have enough time to scout?

again, 'time to scout' is laughable.  he was hired nearly in MAY 2007.  the current freshman kids' HS senior seasons are starting and one of their top choices (arkansas) has had THREE coaches in the last 6 months.  and yet, with offers abound, Fortson & Clarke choose arkansas.      again, when was pel supposed to lock up the 6'7" guard class just waiting to be snatched up?  you can't honestly say his first class of reecruits had a 'normal' recruiting period with arkansas...

#5) What's the difference? Pel's coached before, it's basically the same game. "alright fellas, let's score some points".

no, it isnt.  again, has anyone on this board actually seen game tape of pelphrey when he was at south alabama? does anyone have a clue what kind of game he coaches, offense, defense, etc? did you know when South Alabama made the NCAA's with like 26 wins in 2006, their defense was basically Man-to-Man defense?  And did you know that now, at arkansas, in 2009, we play mostly Zone defense?  does anyone ask WHY we are playing zone right now? does anyone look at the roster and start counting before they proclaim "we play zone b/c pel is a bad coach"?     

if it was simply saying 'score points, you all can do it!' then they'd just put Notes III out there with a crowbar and let him ride it out to final fours each year.

[HawgAdvocate]

#1) Well why is it flawed exactly? Ole Miss plays the same schedule as us. They were hit by injuries, they lost four players, 3 of which I know were starters. What's flawed about that? Kennedy just did more with less.

#2) Ok. Washington leads our team in scoring (thank you Stan Heath) and Welsh is 4th it looks like with 11.7 ppg, (.5 behind Clarke). So our leading scorer is an upperclassman and our fourth leading scorer is also. Not much difference there. This is a legitimate point.

#3) This is a fine point, and I agree with it. As far as on-court contributions though, where are they?

#4) Who's bringing in the size? Again the depth argument I can somewhat buy, but size? Why bring in a 6'0 guy and a 5'11 guy when you know it's going to lead to perimeter problems? Pel didn't have enough time to scout?

#5) What's the difference? Pel's coached before, it's basically the same game. "alright fellas, let's score some points". Some of us were worried about losing this guy to Kentucky, now him only being in his second year is an issue? And what about Kentucky? They're looking at Gillespie like he may not be the savior they hoped he would be. They point to his two year record and his upcoming recruiting class. Kentucky's class (on Rivals, I'm not sure if that's the 'best' site to look at) is ranked 14th, we're nowhere to be found.

#1) It's flawed because there are multiple variables that you have to consider. It's apples to oranges with each comparkison. That's why we have #s 2-5 to answer for. Vandy has a lot of upperclassmen and a coach who's established himself in Nashville. Ole Miss also has a lot of returning players. If they lose Warren, they still had Terrico White to step up and handle ball handling. Excluding 6'9" Malcom White, they have four guys over 225 lbs. I'm not exscusing Pel because of this, but there are notable differences in the rosters.

#2) Your point was alluding that Vandy's freshman led them in scoring, which wasn't the case. Our offense lacks leadership, and Washington goes without a touch for far to long in most games. For the 2d half of the season, he's had to rebound and score most of his points without being fed the ball.

#3) I don't know what you're asking. Welsh and Washington play major minutes already. Britt does as well, but rarely looks to score.

#4) Mix in Beverley, a full season of a healthy Henry, and either Payne/McDonald, and size wouldn't as much of an issue on the perimeter. We wouldn't be living and dying with the 2-3 zone either. Mistakes were made, bad judgements, but it's not like Pel has always done this as a head coach. Otherwise, he wouldn't have turned South Alabama around.

#5) The difference is that Pelphrey doesn't yet have a firm grasp on this team. He doesn't have a seasoned crew of his own upperclassmen. It's sort of the same reason it took him two seasons to get South Alabama back on track.

[HawgAdvocate]

if we haven't got a player who could make the 2 deep on the good teams how can you expect to win many more games ? as for powell i don't give much credit to the # of stars until they prove it on the court. with no real inside game and poor shooting [ 18 % ] in the second half against vandy . i just can't see a light at the end of the tunnel being anything but a train.

Fortson, Henry, and Rotnei would be. Powell should be. Clark turned down Kentucky and Oklahoma. Gotta give them time. Look at how Washington blossomed from his sophomore to junior year.

[tophawg19]

time is the one thing we don't have . i love my hogs but hope is very dim at the moment. we need to be in the tournament next year and i can't see enough good players too be there.