I have no inside source at all.

[Iwastherein1969]

You cant really use attendance this year because of how bad the economy is.    expecting a coach to raise basketball attendance in the middle of a recession when the home schedule is crappy at best is unrealistic

You cant use wins and losses because in 2 years here is is 37-26.    not outstanding, but still not firing worthy

You can only go on the off the court issues if any are present, and I dont see any of them not being fixable, and I firmly believe he will be given an opportunity to fix them

Firing a coach 2 years in 9 times out of 10 is a bad business practice.  unless he has either gone out and committed a felony, or put the team in the middle of NCAA sanctions (See Kelvin Sampson)

I can think of NO ONE who calls firing a coach a "good experience"....for, 10 times out of 10 a coach who gets fired is leaving because bad things happened...now, also, I don't know of anyone who expects Calhoun, Coach K or Bill Self, those days are long since gone, however, what we can do is vet the next coach in a much more thorough manner and NOT depend on some head hunting firm to do our job for us....this is simple peeps, we have hit rock bottom, our expectations have been dumbed down so low that we get off on losing to S. Carolina because the game was close...all we need is a guy who can recruit decently, win a game or two more than  he loses inthe SEC and all will be well again.. that man is out there somewhere, we just have to look

[Smokehouse]

Jim Grobe would not have been a bad hire.  Will Muschamp wouldn't have been either.  Tommy Bowden would have been a screw up.  That's one bad choice out of 3. 

So in essence, had Petrino not been at another job, none of the other candidates would have come about.  But let's look at the 4 we actively recruited here...

1.  Petrino
2.  Bowden
3.  Muschamp
4.  Grobe

I would have done a dance had any of them but Bowden been hired to take over this program.  Sure, we're lucky that Bowden was just using us to get a pay raise...but THAT IS WHERE US BEING LUCKY ENDED.

I agree Grobe probably would have been a good hire. Then again, maybe he's found a good niche in coaching at a school like Wake Forest (it certainly doesn't appear that he wants to leave) and he wouldn't thrive as well in a high-pressure job where the fans expect a lot.

Bowden would have been awful, no doubt at all. And he was the first one up.

I think Muschamp is a really good coach, but honestly everyone keeps using the "we don't need another up-and-comer, we need a proven head coach!" when it comes to talking about Pelphrey, but they're fine using Muschamp - by any definition only an up-and-comer - to somehow prove a point that Long will make a solid higher. Can't have it both ways.

I am thrilled we got Petrino. But if another job had opened up in the SEC at the same time as ours (say, Tennessee), are you confident Long still could have gotten him here? I honestly have no idea, and that's because I haven't seen enough out of Long yet. It's not like he's got a long body of work here to go off of. People keep acting like there's no way he won't miss on a hire - I can't put that much confidence in him just yet.

[Iwastherein1969]

this is hilarious.  repost, but still pertinent:

the 3-5 years for pel in basketball is a minimum because that's what it takes to get your pieces in place to do your kind of coaching.

*has anyone on this board actually seen game tape of pelphrey when he was at south alabama?
*does anyone have a clue what kind of game he coaches, offense, defense, etc?
*did you know when South Alabama made the NCAA's with like 26 wins in 2006, their defense was basically Man-to-Man defense? 
*And did you know that now, at arkansas, in 2009, we play mostly Zone defense? 
*does anyone ask WHY we are playing zone right now?
*does anyone look at the roster and start counting before they proclaim "we play zone b/c pel is a bad coach"?

These are kind of questions that this board should be asking, not "should we fire him", but "are the pieces coming in 09 and '10 that pel needs". 

And yes, it takes a few years to get those pieces here.  Pel was hired in LATE APRIL 2007.... after a Day-long Altman head coach.  And yet, recruiting wise, he still manages (ostrum actually, imagine that) to land Fortson & Clarke & Henry. 

It takes 3-5 years because sometimes the pieces you count on (AJ walton, the haters' favorite example) don't work out for logical reasons: why would walton come to UA and be BACKUP point guard behind Fortson until AJ's senior year? same with gulley.  Why would James Anderson go anywhere other than OkState, when his coach since age 8 has been practically forcing the Cowboys on James? 

Add in some of those 'other reasons', with poor academics, and you have some time to get things rolling.

Basically, i call bull on ANYONE'S 'inside sources' that say pel is gone this year.  As far as i know, ZERO mods have said he's gone this year, just that off-the-court issues need to be cleaned up.  Obviously.  Why did Dana leave after a day?

sir, I comprende' the questionaire part of your post and I agree with it....however, where you lose me is the idea that it takes up to 5 year to rebuild a basketball program...IT DOES NOT...in football, yes, 4 to 5 years to build the necessary depth for 22 playing positions and the kicking game, but basketball is a totally different animal....as 3 VERY GOOD players surrounded by 2 good players who know their roles and 3 to 4 decent subs are all that is needed to at the very least break even in the SEC...the 5 year program is for the ball that bounces sideways

[mathhog]

sir, I comprende' the questionaire part of your post and I agree with it....however, where you lose me is the idea that it takes up to 5 year to rebuild a basketball program...IT DOES NOT...in football, yes, 4 to 5 years to build the necessary depth for 22 playing positions and the kicking game, but basketball is a totally different animal....as 3 VERY GOOD players surrounded by 2 good players who know their roles and 3 to 4 decent subs are all that is needed to at the very least break even in the SEC...the 5 year program is for the ball that bounces sideways

i agree also.  it CAN be turned around quickly.

problem is, the great players aren't beating down our door right now.

in fact, out of the ENTIRE SEC league......  there are 2 (just two!) 5 star recruits coming in.  so arkansas doesn't have the 3 required very good players yet? well the entire LEAGUE doesn't have those 3 very good players yet.

it's going to take some time to get the al jeffersons of the world to spend a year on arkansas' campus.   a coach, a friend, someone in the know, something... but we can't expect that a program that had THREE DIFFERENT HEAD COACHING REGIMES in APril 2007 alone will be signing 5 star recruits that very summer.

[ruarealhogfan]

We were lucky with the TIMING not the INTEREST.  Had Arthur Blank let Petrino out of his contract earlier, Petrino would have ended our coaching search early on. 

Jim Grobe would not have been an underwhelming hire and it's mind-blowing to me that people think this.  Is he Petrino?  No, but he's a hell of a coach and a step up from Houston Nutt which is what the whole point of the coaching search was.

Bowden would have been a nightmare.  No argument here.  And I have admitted that the Bowden situation is where were lucky.  Tuberville would have been a good hire.  Muschamp would have been as much of a wildcard as anybody else including Petrino.  You can't guarantee success with any coach.  Muschamp was one of the most promising coordinators out there.  I have no doubt Texas will eventually be happy with him as head coach.

Can't for the life of me figure out your infatuation with Grobe...

[Wild Bill Hog]

Tommy Bowden, Jim Grobe...and the multiple weeks it took for Long to get his head out of his rear and actually act on the fact that Petrino was interested should tell you that Long isn't known for hitting a bullseye on every throw.

Petrino wanted out of Atlanta, in the midst of his first year, and wanted back in college football.

We had the right opening, in the right conference, at the right time in recruiting season to make it happen. Petrino took a pretty decent pay cut to come here. That should tell you something. He fell into Long's lap out of desperation on Petrino's part. And Long nearly didn't even allow it to happen.

This hiring was the exception, and not the rule. I wouldn't give Long as much credit for this as I would Michael Vick.

Spot on.

[sassylassy]

Tommy Bowden, Jim Grobe...and the multiple weeks it took for Long to get his head out of his rear and actually act on the fact that Petrino was interested should tell you that Long isn't known for hitting a bullseye on every throw.

Petrino wanted out of Atlanta, in the midst of his first year, and wanted back in college football.

We had the right opening, in the right conference, at the right time in recruiting season to make it happen. Petrino took a pretty decent pay cut to come here. That should tell you something. He fell into Long's lap out of desperation on Petrino's part. And Long nearly didn't even allow it to happen.

This hiring was the exception, and not the rule. I wouldn't give Long as much credit for this as I would Michael Vick.

Nail on the head right there!

[rzrbackrob]

I hope that we have the common sense and foresight to have a proven successor signed, sealed, and delivered before we drop the axe on Pelphrey.  After all, that lack of planning is what got us with Pelphrey in the first place.  Not that I think Pelphrey needs to be canned right now, but there is no question we were forced to role the dice with an uproven coach.  And the jury is still out...

Maybe it will be Dana

[HawgWild]

[quote author=HawgAdvocate
But we also just fired Heath for reasons that had nothing to do with his annual improvement on the floor. He kept winning more and more, and we didn't even give him a final year with his own players. Why would any proven, winning coach walk away from his current job to come here if our fanbase, our donors, and our administration were so impatient with prior coaches? And we're already talking about doing the same with Pel in three seasons? The HDN debacle doesn't help either.

We're shooting ourselves in the foot and wishing on a star at the same time.
[/quote]

We have painted ourselves into a corner haven't we.

[Oliver]

Can't for the life of me figure out your infatuation with Grobe...

Infatuation?  I'm acknowledging that he is a good coach.  He took WAKE FOREST and took them to a BCS Bowl Game!  There's no way I'd trade Petrino for him but jeebus people the guy is a good head coach.  I can't for the life of me figure out why you or anybody would think he would have been a bad hire.

[RZRBack_FAN]

I have heard we got up to nearly 4 mil with Calipari (who I can't stand).....and if that is true and Pel has shown Long he can't control the team.....then Long should already have a short list in mind...starting with Jamie Dixon at Pitt.

Lol I'm sure he can't wait to live Pitt where he has a shot at a National Title and has turned them into a national power, to come here with the ridiculous fans that we have.

[lovetthog1]

Any coach with a brain should worry more about job security here at Arkansas before how much we'd offer.

We won't have a proven history of patience if we were to fire two coaches in eight seasons.

Yeah after getting millions of dollars to coach basketball, they might have to worry about being broke and jobless lol... Never feel sorry for a man who owns his own plane.

[Oklahawg]

We hired a search firm to give us potential candidates during the basketball coaching change.  I wonder who else they had on that list...

We hired a search firm after the 80-something year old AD waltzed off to golf at Augusta and the other hire bailed after being given the first look "under the hood" at the engine for his first team. The search firm was a way of saving face.

This is an example where the search committee wasn't out discreetly identifying which top coaches would come if offered. They were involved in brandname reclamation in the NCAA circles. Altman's about face got a lot of folks attention.

[HawgnCorona]

we have a BINGO !   nailed it, a 10, perfect post.....Jeff Long is ALL ABOUT numbers, bottom lines and BUTTS in SEATS....he see's what is about to cave in on him and the dollars will be going out the Bud Walton windows...Long may use, to borrow an NCAA term, "lack of institutional control" as a reason to let Pelphrey go, but as the guy who calls Obama a snob says, its all about wins and losses

You are absolutley right about. Its always about the bottom line. . .and only winning came help do that. The thing that pangs me the most about this season is we couldnt even defend home court. That alone we have made us a bit more respectable. . .

[hawgsav1]

We hired a search firm after the 80-something year old AD waltzed off to golf at Augusta and the other hire bailed after being given the first look "under the hood" at the engine for his first team. The search firm was a way of saving face.

This is an example where the search committee wasn't out discreetly identifying which top coaches would come if offered. They were involved in brandname reclamation in the NCAA circles. Altman's about face got a lot of folks attention.

I know Frank was off screwing around and screwed up by getting us Altman, but do you think the search firm had little or no input into who was selected?

[BigHog396]

sir, I comprende' the questionaire part of your post and I agree with it....however, where you lose me is the idea that it takes up to 5 year to rebuild a basketball program...IT DOES NOT...in football, yes, 4 to 5 years to build the necessary depth for 22 playing positions and the kicking game, but basketball is a totally different animal....as 3 VERY GOOD players surrounded by 2 good players who know their roles and 3 to 4 decent subs are all that is needed to at the very least break even in the SEC...the 5 year program is for the ball that bounces sideways

It does, however, take more than 1 season when the previous staff has left you in a hole that leaves you 10 scholarship players short going into year 2.  Problem is, most of the people calling for Pel's head are either too blind or too dumb to realize that.

Pel may not end up being the coach to get us back to the top, but you sure as hell can't fire him after 2 seasons, especially with the garbage he was left to clean up.

[HawgAdvocate]

I know Frank was off screwing around and screwed up by getting us Altman, but do you think the search firm had little or no input into who was selected?

That's not their roll. They handle the interview process and the correspondance so we don't have to have our planes and administation publiclly involved. They can aid in gathering information by being a third party.

[william.lane123]

Jim Grobe would not have been a bad hire.  Will Muschamp wouldn't have been either.  Tommy Bowden would have been a screw up.  That's one bad choice out of 3. 

Petrino was interested in this job from the moment it came open.  Cliff Lee's agent stated so on Wally and Shawn's show (he's friends with Petrino's agent).  He didn't take the job until as late as it was because he couldn't get out of the Atlanta situation. 

So in essence, had Petrino not been at another job, none of the other candidates would have come about.  But let's look at the 4 we actively recruited here...

1.  Petrino
2.  Bowden
3.  Muschamp
4.  Grobe

I would have done a dance had any of them but Bowden been hired to take over this program.  Sure, we're lucky that Bowden was just using us to get a pay raise...but THAT IS WHERE US BEING LUCKY ENDED.

If you recall BP called about the job after some things happened in the front office at Atlanta.  If he had of gotten more controll at Atlanta we would not have gotten him. 

[311Hog]

Let me clarify what I mean.

I agree with the proposition that a coach should not be fired after two years based on wins and losses.

However, I do believe it is possible and prudent, given the correct set of circumstances, for an AD to decide that due to off-court issues a coach doesn't have it in him at present time to run a major college program.

The variable obviously becomes what those correct set of circumstances are.       

Do you guys realize that these "off the court" problems you refer to could be institutional and not 100% related to the coach?

I mean why again did the Creighton head coach we hired refuse the job the next day?

I am pretty sure our program as a whole has "off the court" issues and they were not created by John Pelphrey.

[WilsonHog]

Do you guys realize that these "off the court" problems you refer to could be institutional and not 100% related to the coach?

I mean why again did the Creighton head coach we hired refuse the job the next day?

I am pretty sure our program as a whole has "off the court" issues and they were not created by John Pelphrey.

If they're happening 24 months in, they're not likely to be institutional.

[heathtits]

If they're happening 24 months in, they're not likely to be institutional.

Stupid post, was busy watching Flight of the Concord's and was thinking New Zealand time.

[berryhog]

If you want to get technical its been 48 since he's been here.

Who ?

[Hoggy1]

Stupid post, was busy watching Flight of the Concord's and was thinking New Zealand time.

LOL, I was gonna getcha but I gave you some time to change that "48"

[tusksincolorado]

I know this fact. I flew into NWA this past weekend and saw the Hog/Vandy game on TV Sunday noon for the first time since the nationally televised OK and TX games. This group of assembled players has fallen apart and in noway play as a team. Way to much individualism, especially at the guard position.

This can be only attributed to the coach and staff. My question is has the coach and staff quit?

[rzrbackrob]

My question is has the coach and staff quit?

No.
I sat four rows behind the Hog bench at the Vandy game and Pel was coaching his a** off, but as the results show it was not enough.

[311Hog]

If they're happening 24 months in, they're not likely to be institutional.

well i think i used the wrong word i meant that signs of a bigger problem, maybe party to much? to much temptation? i dunno.  Just seems like on paper and for a brief time this year this team looked amazing, they looked a big man or two and a 2nd point away from being a contender, but as such with other players in resent history something went wrong with the chemistry.

I dunno on paper and healthy this team shouldnt be this bad, and Pelphrey shouldnt have to try as hard as he looks like he is to get them to play together.

[HoopS]

Fwiw, a guy who has absolutely no ties to us but does to Nebraska, supposedly knows Altman and others, said DA accepted before he realized the mess our Ath Dept was in and he told me that there were deep issues that the NCAA would punish us for. 

I've never shared that because frankly, I have my doubts and sharing such things usually gets you crapped on by many here. 

But the source, though he may have known DA and all things Nebraska, didn't know beans about many of the things I know about up there and some of his other statements proved it.  Still, one has to wonder exactly what it was that spooked the guy back to Omaha.

[arkansasmaniac]

Excuse me, but how are we so certain the Petrino hire is that great?
We've made it through one sub-.500 season so far.

I'm on the bandwagon that it is a great hire no doubt, but I'm not marking up a National Championship in 3 years, that's for sure.
I wouldn't be surprised if by the end of the 2009 season, we're going into the LSU game with a losing season again.

[donewithdale]

On whose paper would this team look good? 

One capable low post scorer that is foul prone.

A 5-11 (generous) Fr PG whose shooting could be considered erratic at best and he isn't a good defender yet

A 6-0 (generous) Fr SG that has to get shots off against SEC defenses focused on him with bigger defenders

A 6-3 Jr SG that is at best a streaky shooter and an avg defender

Our SF had knee surgery during the season

A steady 6-2 So guard who can't beat anyone off of the dribble and provides little scoring

Might as well not mention the rest.  9 recruited scholarship players and no way to make an SEC level starting 5 at all 5 positions.  Only maybe 2 SEC level starters right now at their positions, maybe.  That gets you what was predicted, a last place finish.

[rzrbackrob]

Still, one has to wonder exactly what it was that spooked the guy back to Omaha.

That is a mystery I have never heard satisfactory explained, unless your willing to take family reasons and homesick as truth.

[donewithdale]

Excuse me, but how are we so certain the Petrino hire is that great?
We've made it through one sub-.500 season so far.

I'm on the bandwagon that it is a great hire no doubt, but I'm not marking up a National Championship in 3 years, that's for sure.
I wouldn't be surprised if by the end of the 2009 season, we're going into the LSU game with a losing season again.

A couple of minutes or a bad off pi call away from being bowl eligible while playing the most Fr in our program's history, a 5 star qb in a proven passing offense and the highest ranked, deepest recruiting class in at least 3 decades if not ever.  That gives fans confidence.

[arkansasmaniac]

A couple of minutes or a bad off pi call away from being bowl eligible while playing the most Fr in our program's history, a 5 star qb in a proven passing offense and the highest ranked, deepest recruiting class in at least 3 decades if not ever.  That gives fans confidence.

Oh for sure.  That does give me confidence.
I was also confident we were poised for a National Championship in D-Mac/Felix's last year.

[HoopS]

Oh for sure.  That does give me confidence.
I was also confident we were poised for a National Championship in D-Mac/Felix's last year.

Hey, one would think that if a coach is supposedly a great running game coach, and he had the best set of backs in the country plus an NFL fullback in the backfield, he would be able to muster more than 8 wins in a 12 game slate. 

Consider the coach and never make that mistake again. 

[want2be]

A couple of minutes or a bad off pi call away from being bowl eligible while playing the most Fr in our program's history, a 5 star qb in a proven passing offense and the highest ranked, deepest recruiting class in at least 3 decades if not ever.  That gives fans confidence.

I agree.........that equates to a proven 48 yr old coach who has won a BCS bowl and is paid accordingly (and earns every penny).......The difference in expectations for football combared to bball is like night and day, BUT it should not be.

[Hog Milanese]

Excuse me, but how are we so certain the Petrino hire is that great?
We've made it through one sub-.500 season so far.

I'm on the bandwagon that it is a great hire no doubt, but I'm not marking up a National Championship in 3 years, that's for sure.
I wouldn't be surprised if by the end of the 2009 season, we're going into the LSU game with a losing season again.

Have you been asleep since November?

[311Hog]

On whose paper would this team look good? 

One capable low post scorer that is foul prone.

A 5-11 (generous) Fr PG whose shooting could be considered erratic at best and he isn't a good defender yet

A 6-0 (generous) Fr SG that has to get shots off against SEC defenses focused on him with bigger defenders

A 6-3 Jr SG that is at best a streaky shooter and an avg defender

Our SF had knee surgery during the season

A steady 6-2 So guard who can't beat anyone off of the dribble and provides little scoring

Might as well not mention the rest.  9 recruited scholarship players and no way to make an SEC level starting 5 at all 5 positions.  Only maybe 2 SEC level starters right now at their positions, maybe.  That gets you what was predicted, a last place finish.

i was referring to when we were 12-1 and just beat a number 1 seed in Oklahoma.

Fortson looks or should be an unmatched quickness guard that can penetrate and dish or finish at the rim. 

And Clarke should be standing around the 3 pt line just getting look after open look from Fortson.

Washington very improved when not hurt, add to that 2 tall athletic lanky freshman big men and if you run up tempo i would think they could perform very well in the open court.

You have Henry whom barring injury and not being a potential head case has all the talent in the world.

I just cant understand how they arent working or why the only reason i can come up with are injuries, attitudes, and/or issues with coaching staff/each other.

Sure Fortson's outside shot is bad, and Washington gets into foul trouble and at times Clarke struggles to get his shot off, but when they were playing well none of those things were happening.

[hawgsav1]

A couple of minutes or a bad off pi call away from being bowl eligible while playing the most Fr in our program's history, a 5 star qb in a proven passing offense and the highest ranked, deepest recruiting class in at least 3 decades if not ever.  That gives fans confidence.

There is a big difference between Petrino and Pelphrey.  Both of them have had bad seasons this year.  However, the devil is in the details.  In Petrino's case, the team significantly improved from the beginning of the season to the end and we looked like a legitimate bowl team at the end.  In basketball, we have gotten worse as the season progressed.  it's not just a matter of wearing down, but it seems like for every mistake we correct, a new mistake pops up.  I noticed that last year as well.