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Which Anti-Arkansas Basketball betrayal was worst?

Started by ErieHog, November 18, 2015, 02:13:56 pm

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We're used to getting stabbed in the back.    It is a recurrent theme with top recruits and others associated with our basketball program.  Which was the worst?

Malik goes to Kentucky,  to shield himself from 'distractions'
208 (56.7%)
Archie goes to Kentucky as a 'business decision'
12 (3.3%)
Eddie goes to Kentucky, crawling on his hands and knees
94 (25.6%)
Dana Altman heads back to Creighton in 24 hours
53 (14.4%)

Total Members Voted: 367

Voting closed: February 25, 2016, 02:13:56 pm

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FEARTHEPIG

November 23, 2015, 10:05:06 pm #100
No TomBigBeeHog I am saying he didn't forget!

Inhogswetrust

November 24, 2015, 05:07:57 pm #101
Quote from: ErieHog on November 20, 2015, 09:24:06 pm
Arkansas hasn't been a football school since 1980.    We want desperately to be one, and perhaps we're reaching a level where we can experience success that reflects it, but we've been a basketball school a very long time

There are only a few schools were basketball always has and probably always will be more in tune with basketball. UK, KU, IU, NC, UL, UM and DU are those. It doesn't matter what their football team is doing at the time. Arkansas always has been primarily a football school even when the football team wasn't so good or the basketball team was. That is true everywhere but the prior listed  schools.
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi
 

Inhogswetrust

November 24, 2015, 05:12:12 pm #102
Quote from: Atlhogfan1 on November 23, 2015, 09:46:21 pm
I agree.  We have this discussion every year.  We have some hard core basketball fans many of whom came of age during Nolan's peak that will disagree.  I do believe we have the most balanced fan base in the SEC and the South when it comes to supporting football/basketball.  But the Razorback brand was built on football.  The state does have a lot of towns who are basketball focused including some of the bigger ones like FC and JB to go along with the LR public schools.  But this isn't Kentucky or Indiana. 

I don't think this has anything to do with Malik's decision.

Recruits have left occasionally.  It has always been this way and always will be.  When sagas like this one with Monk come up, it always makes me think of Keith Lee. 


http://www.upi.com/Archives/1988/09/29/Former-Memphis-State-basketball-coach-Dana-Kirk-gave-Keith/6434591508800/


Eddie's comments were directed to Frank. 

Kirk might have been even worse scum wise than Cal. Interesting they both coached at tiger high................Tiger high is known for shady, scum coaches.
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

ErieHog

November 24, 2015, 05:55:52 pm #103
Quote from: Inhogswetrust on November 24, 2015, 05:07:57 pm
There are only a few schools were basketball always has and probably always will be more in tune with basketball. UK, KU, IU, NC, UL, UM and DU are those. It doesn't matter what their football team is doing at the time. Arkansas always has been primarily a football school even when the football team wasn't so good or the basketball team was. That is true everywhere but the prior listed  schools.

Sentiment doesn't matter.   That's the thing that makes Arkansas a basketball school.  It isn't what you think or wish to be, but what you are that counts.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

Albert Einswine

November 24, 2015, 06:59:59 pm #104
Quote from: ErieHog on November 24, 2015, 05:55:52 pm
Sentiment doesn't matter.   That's the thing that makes Arkansas a basketball school.  It isn't what you think or wish to be, but what you are that counts.


We're a very mediocre basketball program since Nolan's heyday. You don't have a very compelling case for basketball being who and what we are. By your metric we're a baseball school.
"Funny thing, I become a hell of a good fisherman when the trout decide to commit suicide." ~ John D. Voelker

ErieHog

November 24, 2015, 07:06:30 pm #105
Quote from: Albert Einswine on November 24, 2015, 06:59:59 pm

We're a very mediocre basketball program since Nolan's heyday. You don't have a very compelling case for basketball being who and what we are. By your metric we're a baseball school.

For the most part, we're a bad at basketball, basketball school-- and the metrics still favor basketball over football, actually.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

Albert Einswine

November 24, 2015, 07:08:23 pm #106
Quote from: ErieHog on November 24, 2015, 07:06:30 pm
For the most part, we're a bad at basketball, basketball school-- and the metrics still favor basketball over football, actually.



We'll agree to disagree.
"Funny thing, I become a hell of a good fisherman when the trout decide to commit suicide." ~ John D. Voelker

McKdaddy

November 24, 2015, 09:03:51 pm #107
Quote from: Inhogswetrust on November 24, 2015, 05:07:57 pm
There are only a few schools were basketball always has and probably always will be more in tune with basketball. UK, KU, IU, NC, UL, UM and DU are those. It doesn't matter what their football team is doing at the time. Arkansas always has been primarily a football school even when the football team wasn't so good or the basketball team was. That is true everywhere but the prior listed  schools.
Don't buy upgrades, ride up grades.

"You are everything that is wrong with this place . . . Ban me"

"CPI, ex-food and energy, is only good for an anorexic pedestrian"--Art Cashin

Inhogswetrust

November 24, 2015, 10:36:36 pm #108
Quote from: ErieHog on November 24, 2015, 05:55:52 pm
Sentiment doesn't matter.   That's the thing that makes Arkansas a basketball school.  It isn't what you think or wish to be, but what you are that counts.

And Arkansas always has, is and will be a more football centric school. No sentiment involved and I know a bunch of former Hog basketball players. They will say the same thing and some were VERY successful in college and the pros.
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

ErieHog

November 24, 2015, 11:21:44 pm #109
Quote from: Inhogswetrust on November 24, 2015, 10:36:36 pm
And Arkansas always has, is and will be a more football centric school. No sentiment involved and I know a bunch of former Hog basketball players. They will say the same thing and some were VERY successful in college and the pros.

We've been significantly more successful at basketball, than we have at football for going on 35 years.   That's the very definition of being a basketball school.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

McKdaddy

November 25, 2015, 06:54:04 am #110
Quote from: Inhogswetrust on November 24, 2015, 10:36:36 pm
And Arkansas always has, is and will be a more football centric school. No sentiment involved and I know a bunch of former Hog basketball players. They will say the same thing and some were VERY successful in college and the pros.


Agreed. The few basketball players I talked to in the early-to-mid 90's felt like football got more of the love, perks, and attention from the fans even though football was far less successful during this period of basketball. I always found their perspective on this interesting. Maybe football players felt the same way about basketball, but I didn't hear football players say it.
Don't buy upgrades, ride up grades.

"You are everything that is wrong with this place . . . Ban me"

"CPI, ex-food and energy, is only good for an anorexic pedestrian"--Art Cashin

Inhogswetrust

November 25, 2015, 08:21:21 am #111
Quote from: ErieHog on November 24, 2015, 11:21:44 pm
We've been significantly more successful at basketball, than we have at football for going on 35 years.   That's the very definition of being a basketball school.

Disagree. While the basketball teams success cannot be disputed we have always emphasized football first and most fans know that. It's not the wins and losses that define a school as one or the other it is the emphasis by the school and fans overall. Ask anyone around the country to name the top 10 or maybe even 25 basketball schools and I bet except for some in KY and Arkansas that a minority would say Arkansas. Heck they would say schools like Houston, Memphis, etc. before they would Arkansas. I like the fact though that Arkansas wants an overall program being good at all sports.
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

Inhogswetrust

November 25, 2015, 08:22:26 am #112
Quote from: McKdaddy on November 25, 2015, 06:54:04 am

Agreed. The few basketball players I talked to in the early-to-mid 90's felt like football got more of the love, perks, and attention from the fans even though football was far less successful during this period of basketball. I always found their perspective on this interesting. Maybe football players felt the same way about basketball, but I didn't hear football players say it.

You can go back farther than that. I know several that played for Eddie and they would tell you the same thing.There are only a few schools that think a basketball national championship is more important to them than a football one.
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi
 

Albert Einswine

November 25, 2015, 08:48:46 am #113
Quote from: Inhogswetrust on November 25, 2015, 08:22:26 am
You can go back farther than that. I know several that played for Eddie and they would tell you the same thing.There are only a few schools that think a basketball national championship is more important to them than a football one.


Kentucky, Duke, Kansas, UCLA, Indiana, North Carolina, UConn.

I'd trade our basketball title and every Final Four appearance in a heartbeat for 1 football NC in my lifetime. The '64 title from the Jan 1, '65 Cotton Bowl came 1 year and 28 days before I was born.
"Funny thing, I become a hell of a good fisherman when the trout decide to commit suicide." ~ John D. Voelker

McKdaddy

November 25, 2015, 09:03:33 am #114
Quote from: Albert Einswine on November 25, 2015, 08:48:46 am

Kentucky, Duke, Kansas, UCLA, Indiana, North Carolina, UConn.

I'd trade our basketball title and every Final Four appearance in a heartbeat for 1 football NC in my lifetime. The '64 title from the Jan 1, '65 Cotton Bowl came 1 year and 28 days before I was born.

I'm w/ you guys in arguing we are a football school.  No doubt in my mind.  However, I'm a bigger basketball fan.  I love football, but really love basketball.  I'd rather have another basketball title and more basketball success than a football title and associated success.  In saying this, I realize I'm in the minority of the Razorback fans that has this desire.  In fact, I don't know of a single friend, co-worker, or relative that shares my sentiment for greater basketball successes than football . . . . . we are a football school.
Don't buy upgrades, ride up grades.

"You are everything that is wrong with this place . . . Ban me"

"CPI, ex-food and energy, is only good for an anorexic pedestrian"--Art Cashin

PonderinHog

November 25, 2015, 09:06:55 am #115
I want it all!

'77 - '78 was a very good year for all three.

As far as championships go, Arkansas is a track school.    ;)

McKdaddy

November 25, 2015, 09:45:39 am #116
Quote from: PonderinHog on November 25, 2015, 09:06:55 am
I want it all!

'77 - '78 was a very good year for all three.

As far as championships go, Arkansas is a track school.    ;)

True

True

+1
Don't buy upgrades, ride up grades.

"You are everything that is wrong with this place . . . Ban me"

"CPI, ex-food and energy, is only good for an anorexic pedestrian"--Art Cashin

ErieHog

November 25, 2015, 09:46:12 am #117
Quote from: Inhogswetrust on November 25, 2015, 08:21:21 am
Disagree. While the basketball teams success cannot be disputed we have always emphasized football first and most fans know that. It's not the wins and losses that define a school as one or the other it is the emphasis by the school and fans overall. Ask anyone around the country to name the top 10 or maybe even 25 basketball schools and I bet except for some in KY and Arkansas that a minority would say Arkansas. Heck they would say schools like Houston, Memphis, etc. before they would Arkansas. I like the fact though that Arkansas wants an overall program being good at all sports.

Emphasis and desire have no correlation to what someone is;  UCLA would kill for football relevancy, but it doesn't change their status, either.   

If you ask people to identify top 25 basketball programs vs. football programs,  we'd be considered far more relevant by non-Arkansans as a basketball team on hard times, by an enormous proportion.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

GoHogs1091

November 25, 2015, 09:46:22 am #118
Quote from: hogman99 on November 20, 2015, 02:52:00 pm
James Anderson is not better than Malik Monk. I have seen them both play on numerous occasions and Monk is the better overall player.  We will see for sure as Monk's career in college and pros continue.

If I remember correctly, James Anderson scored a lot of points against a very good out-of-state team in a High School Holiday Hoops Tournament in Bud Walton.

That was probably better competition than the "juggernauts" Malik Monk faces at Bentonville.

Inhogswetrust

November 25, 2015, 03:03:07 pm #119 Last Edit: November 25, 2015, 03:27:56 pm by Inhogswetrust
Quote from: ErieHog on November 25, 2015, 09:46:12 am
Emphasis and desire have no correlation to what someone is;  UCLA would kill for football relevancy, but it doesn't change their status, either.   

If you ask people to identify top 25 basketball programs vs. football programs,  we'd be considered far more relevant by non-Arkansans as a basketball team on hard times, by an enormous proportion.

Well we disagree on Eddie so I guess we'll just have to disagree on this.
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

cypert2

February 17, 2016, 09:33:35 pm #120
Quote from: Mike Irwin on November 20, 2015, 11:14:24 pm
Don't buy Cyper2's baloney on the crowds. Over 14,000 season tickets have been sold. Except for the first few years after Bud Walton opened crowds have always been down in November and December.

Once SEC play starts fans will begin to use those tickets and this basketball program will probably end up third in the SEC in attendance when the season is over just like last year. The school is nowhere near third in football attendance. When it comes to fan support Arkansas is a basketball school too.
Baloney?
Swinging on the two and the four.

jkstock04

February 17, 2016, 09:43:15 pm #121
The fans care much more about football...but if the administration wouldn't have blown it...we could've stayed right there with Kentucky through the years as far as being a top SEC basketball school. That's what i believe.

In short...fans care more about football. Majority actually have higher expectations in basketball (which is weird). But, we have (or maybe had) a hell of a lot more potential in basketball than football. I feel like we should've embraced what we could be good at...but it didn't happen. Down the toilet.
Thanks for the F Shack. 

Love,

Dirty Mike and the Boys

SooiecidetillNuttgone

February 17, 2016, 10:01:59 pm #122
Quote from: PharmacistHog on November 18, 2015, 07:45:52 pm
Well the monks didnt exactly give us a handy on their way out the door.

ROFL.

I'd vote Marcus Monk if possible.

I can understand Sutton.
I can understand K. Jackson.
I actually don't blame Altman.
I don't know of the details about Archie.

What Marcus did is akin to treason.
I can't believe that someone as close to the program as he was would steer his brother away to promote his personal enterprise.
His response to me:
Quote from: hawginbigd1 on October 13, 2016, 11:48:33 am
So everyone one of the nationalized incidents were justified? There is no race problems with policing? If that is what you believe.....well bless your heart, it must be hard going through life with the obstacles you must have to overcome. Do they send a bus to come pick you up?

hogfan10

February 17, 2016, 10:05:21 pm #123
Quote from: ErieHog on November 18, 2015, 05:54:02 pm
You don't need a drop more reason than 'on my hands and knees' from Eddie.

He was dead to me, and should be dead to Razorback fans, from that moment onward, forever.


Curious as to how you feel about Nolan? After all he sued the University, and sent the program into this tailspin.
 

bvillepig

February 17, 2016, 10:05:57 pm #124
I have no problem with any of them.. They saw a better opportunity and took advantage of it. 

The one betrayal I have a problem with was the year to year backstabbing of a certain Hall of Fame coach that pushed him over the edge. Not sure we will ever recover from that without going dirty or spending lots and lots of money.

pigture perfect

February 17, 2016, 11:17:11 pm #125
Quote from: hogfan10 on February 17, 2016, 10:05:21 pm
Curious as to how you feel about Nolan? After all he sued the University, and sent the program into this tailspin.
I agree, Nolan pissed down the leg of Arkansans more than any coach I know of, and I don't have the hatred for him that Erie has for Eddie.
The 2 biggest fools in the world: He who has an answer for everything and he who argues with him.  - original.<br /> <br />The first thing I'm going to ask a lawyer (when I might need one) is, "You don't post on Hogville do you?"

root_hawg

February 18, 2016, 10:42:57 pm #126
I would vote Nolan if you would put it up there.  The players you mentioned just lived in Arkansas.  You could put numerous players in there.

Justifiable Hogicide

February 18, 2016, 11:46:30 pm #127 Last Edit: February 19, 2016, 12:04:43 am by Justifiable Hogicide
Quote from: root_hawg on February 18, 2016, 10:42:57 pm
I would vote Nolan if you would put it up there.
Nolan with his mouth, failed lawsuits and his damning claims destroyed the Arkansas basketball program. We have still not recovered from his public attacks. And now being shackled to Mike Anderson for 5 years with possibly no way out is directly the result of Nolan's scorch the earth past.
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