Super Bowl INT

[hawgwild child]

My goal when I graduate is to become a high school football coach.  What I saw in the final plays of the super was an amazing chess match by two of the smartest coaches in the NFL.  When I watch football I watch differently than a lot of ppl, I like to break down plays and use lots of statistics.  My 2 cents on the pass that got picked off wasn't as bad a play as some might say.  When NE didn't call a timeout after lynchs 4yd carry to the 1, NE decided to roll up there sleeves and play defense, Carroll IMO was expecting NE to take a timeout to preserve time for brady and company to have time to tie or win the game.  When NE didn't take the timeout it sent out the goal line defense, and it kept the Seahawks in there spread attack with there 3 receivers.  Lynch was giving the ball 5 times this year on the 1 yd marker and scored once.  NE had the advantage stopping the run in that situation with there GL defense against the spread of the Seahawks.  Carroll countered that, everyone in the world thought marshawn would touch the ball in that situation.  He got a dream matchup with straight man to man across the board against a rookie cb.  He ran a pick play and attacked the rookie.  Per espn there was only one INT on the 1 yd line all year and u guessed it, it was Russell Wilson INT to butler.  The play call in that situation wasn't as bad as you would think, it was just a play the Butler wasn't supposed to make, a play that he will probably never duplicate again.  It was a great chess match by both coaches, had NE called a timeout after the 1st and goal run Carroll would have more than likely came out in a goal line offense and gave it to Lynch and the seahawks probably would have won.  It was great coaching by both but even more so an AMAZING play by butler.  Butler deserves all the credit in this situation and I think that is getting overshadowed by poor play call.  Some of you may agree and most wont on my take. but just my 2 cents on the final play

[bennyl08]

The logic makes sense. However, it's the difference between strictly playing the math in poker vs playing the situation. The Hawks had the pat's defense on their heels. Lynch just had a strong run the play before. They punched, the pats stumbled. You want to punch again rather than switch things up. If it doesn't work, you you take the timeout and have two tries to pass for the td. Of course, on the other hand, when run is such an obvious play, you do a pass play and can look like a genius. However, if you are going to try that, why not throw in a play action?

[bigredone]

Benny is right. You have a QB with great wheels, possibly the best RB in the game right now and you call a play where those facts are not even used for deception.

[Albert Einswine]

Patriots won, and for me that's all that matters!

[cypert2]

Analyze it all you want, that was a horrible play call.

[Albert Einswine]

Analyze it all you want, that was a horrible play call.

The funny thing about play calls is they're all horrible when they end up like that one did. If that play had gone for a Seattle touchdown it would have been brilliant.

[TejasPete]

The play call was about as good as Doug Baldwin's TD celebration.

[Choctaw Hog]

The funny thing about play calls is they're all horrible when they end up like that one did. If that play had gone for a Seattle touchdown it would have been brilliant.

All armchair football experts are excellent play callers...........after the results are in.  That's why they post on message boards instead of making millions coaching. 

[Arkfan]

The funny thing about play calls is they're all horrible when they end up like that one did. If that play had gone for a Seattle touchdown it would have been brilliant.

Exactly.

And when Seattle went for the touchdown with :06 left in the first half and made it, that was a brilliant call.

But what if the play didnt work and they didnt get the touchdown OR the easy 3? How brilliant would it look then?

[RazorChuck]

Patriots won, and for me that's all that matters!

you suck

[Albert Einswine]

you suck

Invalid opinion is invalid.

[MiHogsMi]

You're right, I don't agree with your (over) analysis.  It was a horrible call.  In that situation you line up quickly and punch it in with Lynch or fake to him and Wilson takes it in.  Only three things happen on a pass play and two aren't very good.  You don't pass then...not with Lynch and Wilson.

[jkstock04]

My goal when I graduate is to become a high school football coach.  What I saw in the final plays of the super was an amazing chess match by two of the smartest coaches in the NFL.  When I watch football I watch differently than a lot of ppl, I like to break down plays and use lots of statistics.  My 2 cents on the pass that got picked off wasn't as bad a play as some might say.  When NE didn't call a timeout after lynchs 4yd carry to the 1, NE decided to roll up there sleeves and play defense, Carroll IMO was expecting NE to take a timeout to preserve time for brady and company to have time to tie or win the game.  When NE didn't take the timeout it sent out the goal line defense, and it kept the Seahawks in there spread attack with there 3 receivers.  Lynch was giving the ball 5 times this year on the 1 yd marker and scored once.  NE had the advantage stopping the run in that situation with there GL defense against the spread of the Seahawks.  Carroll countered that, everyone in the world thought marshawn would touch the ball in that situation.  He got a dream matchup with straight man to man across the board against a rookie cb.  He ran a pick play and attacked the rookie.  Per espn there was only one INT on the 1 yd line all year and u guessed it, it was Russell Wilson INT to butler.  The play call in that situation wasn't as bad as you would think, it was just a play the Butler wasn't supposed to make, a play that he will probably never duplicate again.  It was a great chess match by both coaches, had NE called a timeout after the 1st and goal run Carroll would have more than likely came out in a goal line offense and gave it to Lynch and the seahawks probably would have won.  It was great coaching by both but even more so an AMAZING play by butler.  Butler deserves all the credit in this situation and I think that is getting overshadowed by poor play call.  Some of you may agree and most wont on my take. but just my 2 cents on the final play

It's a nice breakdown, but you are crazy if you think anyone on here is going to agree with you...99% of Monday morning qb's arent going to think analytically.

Personally I don't disagree with passing the ball there as much as I do the actual play call. To me, if you wanna pass it in that situation you throw to the corners or back of end zone. Or maybe a play action dump....I don't like throwing short and in the the middle of the field where everyone is gonna be concentrated due to expecting Lynch to get the ball and run it in the gap.

[moehog]

With a time out in your pocket, the play call was a no-brainer. Give it to your best player.

[JaketheSnake]

You ride the horse that got you there. With almost a minute left, they could have ran twice and likely got in.  Still had a TO and could have thrown later.  It was a TERRIBLE call. 

There was likely only 1 INT inside the 1 yard line bc most teams are smart enough to not outthink themselves and RUN it in.  A lot of throws inside the 1 YL go to fullbacks and TEs that dont necessarily get a lot of touches the rest of the game.  He also had a 6'5 WR that he could have thrown a fade to and had a better opportunity.  Still... that situation you RUN the ball 15 out of 10 times.

You pack the defense inside a very small area and your chances for an INT increase drastically.  You at least run a little roll out play action to get some of the D to bite on the run and get your QB and the ball toward the sideline with less defenders. 

[hawgwild child]

Personally I run the ball there as well, I was Just trying to find some insight as to why Carroll threw and also trying to give credit to butler more so.   I think butler's play was so good on the ball the way he timed the jump and not only that actually made the pick as to why this will go down as "one of the worst calls" of all time. I think his play on the ball is getting over shadowed a bit. Just my opinion

[Kevin Bacon]

Benny is right. You have a QB with great wheels, possibly the best RB in the game right now and you call a play where those facts are not even used for deception.

That was a Houston Dale Nutt play call.  The situation was over-thought and under-played...with the exception of Butler who made the play of his life!  He should probably retire right now!!!

[sooeey pig pig pig]

Stay in school, first of all.

Second, the theory is nice - in theory.  But in the real world of Super Bowl 49, they were shoving the ball down NE's throat and needed to keep doing it, with authority.  There is no reason to not run Lynch there.  You really have to.  Are you trying to tell me Marshawn Beast Lynch wouldn't have gotten a yard there?  Either way, running the ball was the right call.  On 3rd down it would have been the right call, too, IMO.

[scruf]

Stay in school, first of all.

Second, the theory is nice - in theory.  But in the real world of Super Bowl 49, they were shoving the ball down NE's throat and needed to keep doing it, with authority.  There is no reason to not run Lynch there.  You really have to.  Are you trying to tell me Marshawn Beast Lynch wouldn't have gotten a yard there?  Either way, running the ball was the right call.  On 3rd down it would have been the right call, too, IMO.

There are no guarantees.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000429119/Marshawn-Lynch-stuffed-on-fourth-and-one

[sooeey pig pig pig]

There are no guarantees.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000429119/Marshawn-Lynch-stuffed-on-fourth-and-one

And that would be a case of paying more attention to historical statistics than what was going on in the actual game, i.e. overthinking.

[kaki]

My goal when I graduate is to become a high school football coach.  What I saw in the final plays of the super was an amazing chess match by two of the smartest coaches in the NFL.  When I watch football I watch differently than a lot of ppl, I like to break down plays and use lots of statistics.  My 2 cents on the pass that got picked off wasn't as bad a play as some might say.  When NE didn't call a timeout after lynchs 4yd carry to the 1, NE decided to roll up there sleeves and play defense, Carroll IMO was expecting NE to take a timeout to preserve time for brady and company to have time to tie or win the game.  When NE didn't take the timeout it sent out the goal line defense, and it kept the Seahawks in there spread attack with there 3 receivers.  Lynch was giving the ball 5 times this year on the 1 yd marker and scored once.  NE had the advantage stopping the run in that situation with there GL defense against the spread of the Seahawks.  Carroll countered that, everyone in the world thought marshawn would touch the ball in that situation.  He got a dream matchup with straight man to man across the board against a rookie cb.  He ran a pick play and attacked the rookie.  Per espn there was only one INT on the 1 yd line all year and u guessed it, it was Russell Wilson INT to butler.  The play call in that situation wasn't as bad as you would think, it was just a play the Butler wasn't supposed to make, a play that he will probably never duplicate again.  It was a great chess match by both coaches, had NE called a timeout after the 1st and goal run Carroll would have more than likely came out in a goal line offense and gave it to Lynch and the seahawks probably would have won.  It was great coaching by both but even more so an AMAZING play by butler.  Butler deserves all the credit in this situation and I think that is getting overshadowed by poor play call.  Some of you may agree and most wont on my take. but just my 2 cents on the final play

I think you caught one key aspect that you should try to remember when you get into the coaching arena, that being the importance of your team being able to be mentally prepared at crunch time without calling a time-out.  I believe that the lack of the Pats calling a timeout when Seattle thought they would, put them into a bit of a panic.  The time out allows both teams a luxury, so having your team prepared to perform without giving the other team time to gather themselves can be a competitive advantage.

[Josh Goforth]

Well I must be crazy bc I agree with the op and thought the same thing. Belichick held off calling to and sent his gl d in forcing the game into the hands of a young QB. Makes the throwand he is super bowl MVP and nobody's talking about the play call.

[scorekeeper]

First off, I am not a Seahawks fan and I didn't have a dog in the fight so to speak.

That was a stupid play call and it would have been an extremely risky playcall had it gone for a TD.

With the time remaining(20sec?) they could have ran a QB sneak followed by a timeout and then ran Lynch. They should have NEVER gotten into the shotgun UNLESS they were going to run some type of option with a receiver in motion fake/give or a read option with Lynch ALTHOUGH that would have been very risky as well.

QB sneak followed by HB dive. If they stop you they beat you at YOUR game rather than the Patriots winning the guessing game.

Pete Carroll or the offensive coordinator called that last play in fear...fear of the defense in front of them and/or fear of Tom Brady getting the ball back with time on the clock. Heck if Lynch scores with 10 - 12 seconds left let you defense stop Brady from driving the entire field!

[Bubba's Bruisers]

Awesome, awesome game.  Best SB I've ever seen.


Bad final play call.  Seattle pulled defeat from the jaws of victory.

Poor throw by Wilson.  He's largely gotten a pass from the media.

Tremendous play by the Patriot DB.  He hasn't gotten much credit.

Tremendous catch, and break, for Seattle on the catch a couple plays earlier.

Tremendous pressure-packed SB performance by Brady.  Down 10 in the 4th against the best D in the world, and he leads his team on 2 TD drives.


Yes, best SB I've ever seen.

[BadHog]

[SouthFloridaHog]

I still say it was pass interference.

[Albert Einswine]

I still say it was pass interference.

LOL!

[JaketheSnake]

Personally I run the ball there as well, I was Just trying to find some insight as to why Carroll threw and also trying to give credit to butler more so.   I think butler's play was so good on the ball the way he timed the jump and not only that actually made the pick as to why this will go down as "one of the worst calls" of all time. I think his play on the ball is getting over shadowed a bit. Just my opinion

It was a good play on the ball, but the pass was not well thrown IMO.  A little up and out from the intended receiver. 

The interception is getting overshadowed bc of just how much of a complete brainfart that playcall was!  Just rEEEEEEdiculous.  I dont like NE and I dont like Carroll, but I just can not believe it.  That ball has to be ran on 2nd down and likely on 3rd down and maybe even 4th!  (If time allowed, which after 1st down there was a lot of time still)

[hawgwild child]

Obviously all this is speculation on my part and theory.  Just trying to justify carroll's call somewhat and look at it from a different point of veiw.  the chances of a rookie db making that INT was 1-109 to be exact from the 1 yd line. 

[tophawg19]

play call was fine . the seagals got the match up they wanted . 3 wideouts on a Goal line defense is great . you have the mismatches you want . The pick man got jammed on the LOS which blew up the play . RW seeing the pick not working should have thrown the ball away , but tried leading the WR in spite of no pick on the DB . The play should have worked except for two great plays by the Pats D-Backs .

[Lord of the Styes]

By passing, the seahawks gave themselves three shots from the one instead of two. Everyone expected Lynch to get it, which sent the linebackers crashing down and opening up the middle. If the receiver doesn't catch it they can then run twice with the one timeout. Dude just made a heck of a play.

[scorekeeper]

By passing, the seahawks gave themselves three shots from the one instead of two. Everyone expected Lynch to get it, which sent the linebackers crashing down and opening up the middle. If the receiver doesn't catch it they can then run twice with the one timeout. Dude just made a heck of a play.

Run second down, pass third down, run fourth down

[hawgwild child]

By passing, the seahawks gave themselves three shots from the one instead of two. Everyone expected Lynch to get it, which sent the linebackers crashing down and opening up the middle. If the receiver doesn't catch it they can then run twice with the one timeout. Dude just made a heck of a play.

good point, carroll was trying to maximize his potential plays.  i think most here just assume marshawn gets in but as a coach i think you have to look at it subjectively.  I would rather had seen a run and then use your timeout for a pass on 3rd down if i was in that situation tho.  but to maximize your opportunity you need 1 pass in there i believe

[Bubba's Bruisers]

I still say it was pass interference.

Not in a million years.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

By passing, the seahawks gave themselves three shots from the one instead of two. Everyone expected Lynch to get it, which sent the linebackers crashing down and opening up the middle. If the receiver doesn't catch it they can then run twice with the one timeout. Dude just made a heck of a play.

Run 2nd down. 
Time out. 
Pass 3rd down.
Clock stops.
Pass or RUN 4th down. 

They had 3 opportunities either way.  And they had the opportunity to run it twice either way too.

I do agree that the DB made a great play, though.  He's ironically been largely lost in all of this.

[Albert Einswine]

Not in a million years.

Yeah it was textbook defender/receiver arriving at the ball at the same time. Defender has the same right to the ball as the receiver, receiver wasn't held or otherwise impeded. It was a clean play as well as great recognition and a great finish.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

Yeah it was textbook defender/receiver arriving at the ball at the same time. Defender has the same right to the ball as the receiver, receiver wasn't held or otherwise impeded. It was a clean play as well as great recognition and a great finish.

That DB, and NE in general, haven't gotten enough credit.  It's all about Seattle losing it.  Nonsense.  It's about making plays.  There are bad play calls and passes and ref calls and whatever all through a game.  Teams have to overcome that stuff.  It always goes both ways.  Seattle had a 10 point lead in the 4th with the best D on the planet.  Brady owned them.  Heck, it took a luck throw it up for grabs play to even get them to the 1.  NE deserved to win that game, and had Seattle punched it in, they would have too.

[Albert Einswine]

That DB, and NE in general, haven't gotten enough credit.  It's all about Seattle losing it.  Nonsense.  It's about making plays.  There are bad play calls and passes and ref calls and whatever all through a game.  Teams have to overcome that stuff.  It always goes both ways.  Seattle had a 10 point lead in the 4th with the best D on the planet.  Brady owned them.  Heck, it took a luck throw it up for grabs play to even get them to the 1.  NE deserved to win that game, and had Seattle punched it in, they would have too.

Agreed, Butler broke that circus catch ball up on a great defensive play but Kearse caught it on his back after it bounced off his leg. 99.9% of the time that ball falls harmlessly to the ground.

[Inhogswetrust]

Benny is right. You have a QB with great wheels, possibly the best RB in the game right now and you call a play where those facts are not even used for deception.

Perhaps the play call itself was normally enough deception.

[Inhogswetrust]

That DB, and NE in general, haven't gotten enough credit.  It's all about Seattle losing it.  Nonsense.  It's about making plays.  There are bad play calls and passes and ref calls and whatever all through a game.  Teams have to overcome that stuff.  It always goes both ways.  Seattle had a 10 point lead in the 4th with the best D on the planet.  Brady owned them.  Heck, it took a luck throw it up for grabs play to even get them to the 1.  NE deserved to win that game, and had Seattle punched it in, they would have too.

^Best post of the thread.

[sooeey pig pig pig]

Pick plays are NE's bread and butter.  You know that rookie had been abused in practice all season long by it.  And that experience finally paid off!

[tophawg19]

the guy not getting enough credit was the D-BACK who took on the pick man and jammed him at the LOS , Taking him out of the play . NE read the play well . almost too well . Without the pick man the play goes up for grabs and Butler was able to break on the ball.

[OneTuskOverTheLine™]

[mckinneyhog5]

When Belichick didn't call a T.O. I knew NE would win.  He trusted his defense to stop them and they did.  Dudes a genuis football coach.

[OneTuskOverTheLine™]

[hawgfan4life]

My goal when I graduate is to become a high school football coach.  What I saw in the final plays of the super was an amazing chess match by two of the smartest coaches in the NFL.  When I watch football I watch differently than a lot of ppl, I like to break down plays and use lots of statistics.  My 2 cents on the pass that got picked off wasn't as bad a play as some might say.  When NE didn't call a timeout after lynchs 4yd carry to the 1, NE decided to roll up there sleeves and play defense, Carroll IMO was expecting NE to take a timeout to preserve time for brady and company to have time to tie or win the game.  When NE didn't take the timeout it sent out the goal line defense, and it kept the Seahawks in there spread attack with there 3 receivers.  Lynch was giving the ball 5 times this year on the 1 yd marker and scored once.  NE had the advantage stopping the run in that situation with there GL defense against the spread of the Seahawks.  Carroll countered that, everyone in the world thought marshawn would touch the ball in that situation.  He got a dream matchup with straight man to man across the board against a rookie cb.  He ran a pick play and attacked the rookie.  Per espn there was only one INT on the 1 yd line all year and u guessed it, it was Russell Wilson INT to butler.  The play call in that situation wasn't as bad as you would think, it was just a play the Butler wasn't supposed to make, a play that he will probably never duplicate again.  It was a great chess match by both coaches, had NE called a timeout after the 1st and goal run Carroll would have more than likely came out in a goal line offense and gave it to Lynch and the seahawks probably would have won.  It was great coaching by both but even more so an AMAZING play by butler.  Butler deserves all the credit in this situation and I think that is getting overshadowed by poor play call.  Some of you may agree and most wont on my take. but just my 2 cents on the final play

Here is advice you should heed well about coaching FB?

1.  Quit thinking too much.  There isn't that much of a chess match going on between plays.  For those situations, you have that play planned 5 or 6 days before the game.  That big play sheet you see coaches with tells them what to call.  Great play callers see adjustments and alternate plays they use during the game or they set up big plays with formations, motions, and down/distance tendencies of defense, but they do that very little in games.

2.  Get good at what you do and make them stop you doing what you are great at offensively.  Don't worry about being predictable.  Be great at your play.  Great teams are the most predictable.  Teams know what they do and can't stop them.  Thinking too much and coaching too much increases percentage of mistakes and odds of beating self.

3.  When you have the ball on the 1, a timeout to burn, and time to run what you want, forget what they might do and run the freeing ball down their throat!  Never throw on that down.  Run it with Lynch right at them behind your best OL player.  Call time out if short.  Threaten QBs life and his family's life if he gets tackled without throwing it away and then you give Wilson a run first option to throw pass play.  Repeat threat and then give QB another play should he need a fast emergency play.  If it is incomplete, put the ball in Lynchs hands again. 

4.  Keep offense pee wee simple.  Make it look complicated with formations and motions but keep little league simple and get great at what you do.  Less thinking the better for players and coaches.

[c-townfan]

Here is advice you should heed well about coaching FB?

1.  Quit thinking too much.  There isn't that much of a chess match going on between plays.  For those situations, you have that play planned 5 or 6 days before the game.  That big play sheet you see coaches with tells them what to call.  Great play callers see adjustments and alternate plays they use during the game or they set up big plays with formations, motions, and down/distance tendencies of defense, but they do that very little in games.

2.  Get good at what you do and make them stop you doing what you are great at offensively.  Don't worry about being predictable.  Be great at your play.  Great teams are the most predictable.  Teams know what they do and can't stop them.  Thinking too much and coaching too much increases percentage of mistakes and odds of beating self.

3.  When you have the ball on the 1, a timeout to burn, and time to run what you want, forget what they might do and run the freeing ball down their throat!  Never throw on that down.  Run it with Lynch right at them behind your best OL player.  Call time out if short.  Threaten QBs life and his family's life if he gets tackled without throwing it away and then you give Wilson a run first option to throw pass play.  Repeat threat and then give QB another play should he need a fast emergency play.  If it is incomplete, put the ball in Lynchs hands again. 

4.  Keep offense pee wee simple.  Make it look complicated with formations and motions but keep little league simple and get great at what you do.  Less thinking the better for players and coaches.

Outstanding advice

[Inhogswetrust]

Analyze it all you want, that was a horrible play call.

Only because it didn't work.............If it did 99% of people on here and probably you would say "brilliant call".

[Hoggish1]

had NE called a timeout after the 1st and goal run Carroll would have more than likely came out in a goal line offense and gave it to Lynch and the seahawks probably would have won.  It was great coaching by both but even more so an AMAZING play by butler.  Butler deserves all the credit in this situation and I think that is getting overshadowed by poor play call.  Some of you may agree and most wont on my take. but just my 2 cents on the final play

Two things:

Seattle got in trouble at the end having to call two needless timeouts (they had three if memory serves), due to their own lack of decisiveness and confusion, before the one yard line fiasco.  But

Even at that, they still could have run the ball and called a timeout if it didn't work, to get a different package in the game for 3rd and whatever.  The only problem is they would have then had to throw twice since a run play that didn't work would have eaten up the remaining time to end the game without a 4th down try....

[Hoggish1]

You're right, I don't agree with your (over) analysis.  It was a horrible call.  In that situation you line up quickly and punch it in with Lynch or fake to him and Wilson takes it in. 

Lynch said, "I want my play to do my talkin'"

Seattle never game him the chance to talk on the one yard line with the game on the line...