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Letting a coach go, fresh off of 2 tourneys?... has that ever happened? (Heath)

Started by Sanctified Swine, March 18, 2018, 08:46:25 pm

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Sanctified Swine

I was thinking about this and I cant think of a time when a program has ever let go of a coach that has the recent resume of CMA. Can any of you guys think of this ever happening?

bkjbearcat

I don't know but if there hasn't I'll say this. A 16 seed never beat a one in the tournament either. Until this year. First time for everything.
B-E-A-R-C-A-T-S BEARCATS, BEARCATS GOOOOOOO BEARCATS!!!!!!!<br /><br />D2 National Champs in Football: 1998, 1999, 2009, 2013, 2015, 2016<br /><br />D2 National Champs in Mens Basketball: 2017, 2019, No.1 team in 2020,2021, 2022

 

hobhog

CMA isnt going to be fired this year. Next year is a definite possibility if don't dance.

Jean-Luc Pigard

We fired Stan Heath after 2 tournaments back-to-back.  Lost to Bucknell, lost to USC.

Breems

Proud member of the "Left Before Halftime" football club.

Quote from: Breems on January 27, 2011, 08:42:29 pm<br />SCREW VANDERBILT<br />

SONofHAM

Quote from: Sanctified Swine on March 18, 2018, 08:46:25 pm
I was thinking about this and I cant think of a time when a program has ever let go of a coach that has the recent resume of CMA. Can any of you guys think of this ever happening?
Has a power 5 head coach ever been given 8 years to make it to the Sweet 16?  With only 3 tourney appearances?
"like a wild band of Razorback hogs"

Letsroll1200

Quote from: SONofHAM on March 18, 2018, 08:54:15 pm
Has a power 5 head coach ever been given 8 years to make it to the Sweet 16?  With only 3 tourney appearances?

Andy Kennedy had 2 in 12 seasons.

Hollywood_HOGan


EastexHawg

Quote from: Jean-Luc Pigard on March 18, 2018, 08:53:27 pm
We fired Stan Heath after 2 tournaments back-to-back.  Lost to Bucknell, lost to USC.

And another "gotcha" question bites the dust.

HogBreath

I said...LSU has often been an overrated team.

That ignoramus Draconian Sanctions said..if we're overrated, why are we ranked higher than you are?

Sanctified Swine

Quote from: EastexHawg on March 18, 2018, 09:08:40 pm
And another "gotcha" question bites the dust.
wasn't asked as a "gotcha" question. I was simply trying to remember a time when it has happened. Turns out ... it was us with Stan Heath. I hadn't even thought about that. Crazy. I do think that Stan would have taken us to a third straight tourney that next year, but thats beside the point.

any other programs get rid of a coach after 3 consecutive tourneys? I think its probably extremely rare, or hasn't happened at all, except maybe here. The point is, it seems as if a tournament bid is the definition of job security for a coach. As long as a coach can just "get there"... he is set.

Großer Kriegschwein

Quote from: Jean-Luc Pigard on March 18, 2018, 08:53:27 pm
We fired Stan Heath after 2 tournaments back-to-back.  Lost to Bucknell, lost to USC.

Because he was held to the Nolan standard.

But Nolan's protege oddly isn't held to that standard.

This is my non-signature signature.

hawg1221

I can already predict the future. Arkansas will not make the NCAA tournament next year.  With Macon and Barford (and possibly Gafford) gone, go ahead and order your NIT tickets and get a jump on everyone else.

 

Pigasaurus

Quote from: Großer Kriegschwein on March 19, 2018, 08:50:28 am
Because he was held to the Nolan standard.

But Nolan's protege oddly isn't held to that standard.


Bam!  Plus Frank is gone. I believe Heath  was the. "one more firing " that Frank had in him.  To quote someone back then.
"If I wanted you to know what I was thinking, I would be talking."  Al Bundy

Oliver

Quote from: Großer Kriegschwein on March 19, 2018, 08:50:28 am
Because he was held to the Nolan standard.

But Nolan's protege oddly isn't held to that standard.



Bingo

hogsanity

Quote from: hawg1221 on March 19, 2018, 08:55:58 am
I can already predict the future. Arkansas will not make the NCAA tournament next year.  With Macon and Barford (and possibly Gafford) gone, go ahead and order your NIT tickets and get a jump on everyone else.

I'd hold off on that NIT order. The last time the Hogs had a huge roster turnover they went 16-16 and missed all the post season tourneys.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Triple T

If Mike hasn't gotten it done in 7 seasons, what makes you think anything is going to change? He's had almost 2 full classes go through.

HognotinMemphis

This Hog basketball team will not make the NCAAT next year. Literally no way given the returners from this year's team (weak role players at best) and the loss of Macon, Barford and Gafford. Next year is going to be close to a disaster for Anderson.
I don't want you to agree with me because you're weak. I want you to agree with me because you know I'm right.
______________________
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OkieBack

Quote from: hawg1221 on March 19, 2018, 08:55:58 am
I can already predict the future. Arkansas will not make the NCAA tournament next year.  With Macon and Barford (and possibly Gafford) gone, go ahead and order your NIT tickets and get a jump on everyone else.

Unfortunately this has happened way too often with the Arkansas young talent.  I think if the young talent keep shipping off to try the NBA before they are ready its going to end badly for both them and for CMA. 

As much as I support CMA, his team did himself NO favors by losing this year in the first game.  Your team MUST be ready Day #1 or you get bounced.  I hope CMA has some great talent coming in NEXT YEAR because his days may be quickly numbered.  This year's exit (even for this team) was a bit premature. 

hawg1221

Mike has too many players on the team that only know how to catch balls and set screens. And they can barely do that. Mike overhypes the bench players.

King Kong


Letsroll1200

Quote from: King Kong on March 19, 2018, 09:27:20 am
However, he did make a Sweet 16

I don't think so. I might be wrong but I can't remember Ole Miss in the sweet 16.

daprospecta

Quote from: hogsanity on March 19, 2018, 09:08:26 am
I'd hold off on that NIT order. The last time the Hogs had a huge roster turnover they went 16-16 and missed all the post season tourneys.
That wasn't a roster turnover, we literally lost two key pieces of our team.

steveaustin69

Quote from: daprospecta on March 19, 2018, 09:39:59 am
That wasn't a roster turnover, we literally lost two key pieces of our team.

Are you insinuating we are not losing key pieces?

 

PonderinHog


hogsanity

Quote from: daprospecta on March 19, 2018, 09:39:59 am
That wasn't a roster turnover, we literally lost two key pieces of our team.

OK, then this is worse as we are losing Barford/Macon/Beard who accounted for how much of the teams scoring this year? And may lose Gafford.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

azhog10

Quote from: SONofHAM on March 18, 2018, 08:54:15 pm
Has a power 5 head coach ever been given 8 years to make it to the Sweet 16?  With only 3 tourney appearances?
Where do we start:

Kevin Stallings- 9 years before being fired without making a sweet 16 (he had made one right before the start of that 9 year run) he did make the tourney 5/9 years. Mike has gone 3/7 times. Bruce
Bruce Pearl - 4 years only one round of 32 showing
Mark Fox - 9 years only 2 NCAAT and no Round of 16
Herb Sendek (Az St)- 9 years only three tourneys and never past the round of 32
Tad Boyle (Colorado)- 7 years no sweet 16 appearances
Craig Robinson (former Oregon St)- Went 6 straight years of never making the NCAAT or NIT.
Ernie Kent- 4 years no postseason tourney.
Larry Krystkowiak (Utah)- Made the sweet 16 once in 7 years but also has only made the NCAAT 2 times. Not sure our fan base would trade a sweet 16 for missing the NCAAT. Some may say they would but I guarantee you there would be many that would bitch and moan. I also believe there are some out there that would take Larry over Mike in a heartbeat, yet his performance isn't much different.
Richard Pitino (Minny) - 5 years and only one NCAAT and lost in the first round.

I haven't even gotten to other conferences. So there are plenty of coaches out there with similar chances that have performed equal to, or worse than Mike. Not an excuse to keep him but not a very good basis to fire him either if you are trying to compare.

steveaustin69

Quote from: azhog10 on March 19, 2018, 10:01:43 am
Where do we start:

Kevin Stallings- 9 years before being fired without making a sweet 16 (he had made one right before the start of that 9 year run) he did make the tourney 5/9 years. Mike has gone 3/7 times. Bruce
Bruce Pearl - 4 years only one round of 32 showing
Mark Fox - 9 years only 2 NCAAT and no Round of 16
Herb Sendek (Az St)- 9 years only three tourneys and never past the round of 32
Tad Boyle (Colorado)- 7 years no sweet 16 appearances
Craig Robinson (former Oregon St)- Went 6 straight years of never making the NCAAT or NIT.
Ernie Kent- 4 years no postseason tourney.
Larry Krystkowiak (Utah)- Made the sweet 16 once in 7 years but also has only made the NCAAT 2 times. Not sure our fan base would trade a sweet 16 for missing the NCAAT. Some may say they would but I guarantee you there would be many that would bitch and moan. I also believe there are some out there that would take Larry over Mike in a heartbeat, yet his performance isn't much different.
Richard Pitino (Minny) - 5 years and only one NCAAT and lost in the first round.

I haven't even gotten to other conferences. So there are plenty of coaches out there with similar chances that have performed equal to, or worse than Mike. Not an excuse to keep him but not a very good basis to fire him either if you are trying to compare.

I'm not a homer; you can look at my previous posts. But if you're comparing our program to those; well you are probably very happy with Anderson.

azhog10

Quote from: steveaustin69 on March 19, 2018, 10:05:47 am
I'm not a homer; you can look at my previous posts. But if you're comparing our program to those; well you are probably very happy with Anderson.
Well there's a reason they are on the list. Hard to compare us to a UNC or Duke, they've been winning since our last NCAA Championship. Whether you want to admit it or not we aren't on Dukes level anymore. We aren't on Kansas level either. The best we are gonna get is to hopefully work our way into like a WVU mold where we are a top team with a chance at an elite 8 or final four at the very best. But Huggins has been there for 11 years and since he hit the final four stage, he's missed the NCAAT twice and went to the NIT once. I can't imagine the hell Mike would be getting if he went to the final four and then didn't make the tourney or made the NIT......wait yeah i do. At Arkansas he got fired and his name was Nolan Richardson.

HF#1

Quote from: HoginMemphis on March 19, 2018, 09:09:09 am
This Hog basketball team will not make the NCAAT next year. Literally no way given the returners from this year's team (weak role players at best) and the loss of Macon, Barford and Gafford. Next year is going to be close to a disaster for Anderson.

Agreed. I suspect it will be .500 or so. Maybe above, maybe below. Total rebuilding year which after 7 years, is somewhat disappointing.
"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid."  <br /><br />Benjamin Franklin

steveaustin69

Quote from: azhog10 on March 19, 2018, 10:15:01 am
Well there's a reason they are on the list. Hard to compare us to a UNC or Duke, they've been winning since our last NCAA Championship. Whether you want to admit it or not we aren't on Dukes level anymore. We aren't on Kansas level either. The best we are gonna get is to hopefully work our way into like a WVU mold where we are a top team with a chance at an elite 8 or final four at the very best. But Huggins has been there for 11 years and since he hit the final four stage, he's missed the NCAAT twice and went to the NIT once. I can't imagine the hell Mike would be getting if he went to the final four and then didn't make the tourney or made the NIT......wait yeah i do. At Arkansas he got fired and his name was Nolan Richardson.

There's not one reason to keep Mike in this post. You just think Arkansas fans are unreasonable; Huggy's success, while very impressive, does not compare to that of Nolan. We had dropped off rather significantly and I'm not going to get into the off the court stuff but the relationship had run its course.

azhog10

Quote from: steveaustin69 on March 19, 2018, 10:25:45 am
There's not one reason to keep Mike in this post. You just think Arkansas fans are unreasonable; Huggy's success, while very impressive, does not compare to that of Nolan. We had dropped off rather significantly and I'm not going to get into the off the court stuff but the relationship had run its course.
Not unreasonable. I think some are stupid.......now I would understand if the administration thinks they can go out and get someone better. But they better for sure as hell be absolutely confident in that decision. You have a lot of in-state talent and the last thing we need to do is give them all a reason to jump ship. Mike will do a good job here, will he win a NCAA Championship? No probably not. But that's not happening in any sport except baseball and track (maybe golf) but sure as hell isn't happening in football or men's basketball. So yeah you can say maybe i'm content. But I'm content knowing that we will win games for the most part and should see ourselves dancing most years. But I do think there are two or three solid coaches out there. But if you can't get Moser, Musselman, or Oaks then it's not worth it.

steveaustin69

Quote from: azhog10 on March 19, 2018, 10:29:49 am
Not unreasonable. I think some are stupid.......now I would understand if the administration thinks they can go out and get someone better. But they better for sure as hell be absolutely confident in that decision. You have a lot of in-state talent and the last thing we need to do is give them all a reason to jump ship. Mike will do a good job here, will he win a NCAA Championship? No probably not. But that's not happening in any sport except baseball and track (maybe golf) but sure as hell isn't happening in football or men's basketball. So yeah you can say maybe i'm content. But I'm content knowing that we will win games for the most part and should see ourselves dancing most years. But I do think there are two or three solid coaches out there. But if you can't get Moser, Musselman, or Oaks then it's not worth it.

It's very unlikely, but it is possible. Mike will never get us close.

I can't take you seriously after you cited Porter Freaking Moser as a solid coach to go get. He's had one good year.

OkieBack

Quote from: steveaustin69 on March 19, 2018, 10:25:45 am
There's not one reason to keep Mike in this post. You just think Arkansas fans are unreasonable; Huggy's success, while very impressive, does not compare to that of Nolan. We had dropped off rather significantly and I'm not going to get into the off the court stuff but the relationship had run its course.

Mike is going to get next year like it or not.  But whatever he does with his coaching staff, his recruitment, and his philosophy...that's up to him.  We will all know after 3 or 4 games next year if he did anything at all to correct the errors of this last year's team.  CMA can win again with Nolan's style but there can be no lapses.  CMA's teams haven't been good enough to just rely on talent alone.  Nolan used to get out there on the court and condition them himself.  There is a toughness that Nolan's teams had defensively that I'm just not sure CMA can reproduce.  It all starts with defense and right now...CMA's players don't have it.  Will his players next year have it?  They better.  For CMA's sake.  The clock is ticking louder and louder now. 

azhog10

Quote from: steveaustin69 on March 19, 2018, 10:34:07 am
It's very unlikely, but it is possible. Mike will never get us close.

I can't take you seriously after you cited Porter Freaking Moser as a solid coach to go get. He's had one good year.
Don't really care. Porter Moser is a good coach and a very good X's and O's guy.

HF#1

Quote from: azhog10 on March 19, 2018, 10:29:49 am
Not unreasonable. I think some are stupid.......now I would understand if the administration thinks they can go out and get someone better. But they better for sure as hell be absolutely confident in that decision. You have a lot of in-state talent and the last thing we need to do is give them all a reason to jump ship. Mike will do a good job here, will he win a NCAA Championship? No probably not. But that's not happening in any sport except baseball and track (maybe golf) but sure as hell isn't happening in football or men's basketball. So yeah you can say maybe i'm content. But I'm content knowing that we will win games for the most part and should see ourselves dancing most years. But I do think there are two or three solid coaches out there. But if you can't get Moser, Musselman, or Oaks then it's not worth it.

Moser has a career .515 winning %.
"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid."  <br /><br />Benjamin Franklin

hogsanity

Quote from: azhog10 on March 19, 2018, 10:29:49 am

But if you can't get Moser, Musselman, or Oaks then it's not worth it.


Here is the thing, when those guys were hired at the places they are at now, they were pretty much unknown commodities as a HC. Nothing is guaranteed, but to not make a change because of that is silly.

When Anderson was hired to replace Sutton, no one KNEW he was going to do here what he did. When Eddie was hired here, same thing, no one KNEW he was going to do here what he did. When Duke hired Coach K or Indiana hired Bobby Knight, or Illinois hired Self or MSu hired Izzo, no one knew they were going to do what they have gone on to do.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

HF#1

Quote from: azhog10 on March 19, 2018, 10:40:50 am
Don't really care. Porter Moser is a good coach and a very good X's and O's guy.

.515 winning %
"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid."  <br /><br />Benjamin Franklin

hawgtime

if we do get rid of Anderson, who would be a great next Head Hog?  I am out of it but wonder what coaches you would like and WHY?

songofthesword

Quote from: azhog10 on March 19, 2018, 10:01:43 am
Where do we start:

Kevin Stallings- 9 years before being fired without making a sweet 16 (he had made one right before the start of that 9 year run) he did make the tourney 5/9 years. Mike has gone 3/7 times. Bruce
Bruce Pearl - 4 years only one round of 32 showing
Mark Fox - 9 years only 2 NCAAT and no Round of 16
Herb Sendek (Az St)- 9 years only three tourneys and never past the round of 32
Tad Boyle (Colorado)- 7 years no sweet 16 appearances
Craig Robinson (former Oregon St)- Went 6 straight years of never making the NCAAT or NIT.
Ernie Kent- 4 years no postseason tourney.
Larry Krystkowiak (Utah)- Made the sweet 16 once in 7 years but also has only made the NCAAT 2 times. Not sure our fan base would trade a sweet 16 for missing the NCAAT. Some may say they would but I guarantee you there would be many that would bitch and moan. I also believe there are some out there that would take Larry over Mike in a heartbeat, yet his performance isn't much different.
Richard Pitino (Minny) - 5 years and only one NCAAT and lost in the first round.

I haven't even gotten to other conferences. So there are plenty of coaches out there with similar chances that have performed equal to, or worse than Mike. Not an excuse to keep him but not a very good basis to fire him either if you are trying to compare.


Instresting fact
[

Robinson is Barrack Obama's Brother in law.

Atlhogfan1

Quote from: songofthesword on March 19, 2018, 02:59:13 pm

Instresting fact
[

Robinson is Barrack Obama's Brother in law.

Interesting fact:  Oregon St basketball went to the NCAAT one time from 1991 through this season.  Dumb to be brought into this conversation but its part of the effort to kill expectations for Arkansas basketball.

Quote from: SONofHAM on March 18, 2018, 08:54:15 pm

Has a power 5 head coach ever been given 8 years to make it to the Sweet 16?  With only 3 tourney appearances?

You needed to tighten your question up as it opened the door for a list of coaches at traditionally average to crappy programs to be listed.

Has a coach at a program with at least or close to: 1 NC, 6 F4s, 32 NCAA appearances, 73 tourney games and 42 wins ever allowed a coach to go this long with close to the results of Mike Anderson?  In other words, programs which should be our peers. 

IU has more tradition than we do.  They gave Crean 9 seasons.  Through his first 7, he went to 3 NCAATs with 2 Sw 16s.   Again, not that we are IU but it is a closer recent comparison.  A power in the 70s, 80s and 90s who needed to be rebuilt. Crean took over a program in much worse shape than did Mike. 

Georgetown is a program with a similar tradition to ours: 30 NCAAT appearance, 5 F4s and 1 NC.  They gave Esherick 6 seasons.  He made the Sw 16 in his 3rd season.  4 NIT invites but declined one.  Fired after a 13-15 season.  JTIII got 13 seasons.  F4 in his 3rd season after a Sw16 in his second.  Never made it out of the first weekend again.  In his first 11 seasons, he did go to 8 NCAATs and 3 NITs.  Missed postseason in last 2 and was fired.   

Quote from: MaconBacon on March 22, 2018, 10:30:04 amWe had a good run in the 90's and one NC and now the whole state still laments that we are a top seed program and have kids standing in line to come to good ole Arkansas.  We're just a flash in the pan boys. 

hog.goblin

Quote from: Atlhogfan1 on March 19, 2018, 03:30:08 pm
Interesting fact:  Oregon St basketball went to the NCAAT one time from 1991 through this season.  Dumb to be brought into this conversation but its part of the effort to kill expectations for Arkansas basketball.


The last 20 years have done plenty to kill Arkansas expectations.

Atlhogfan1

Quote from: hog.goblin on March 19, 2018, 05:05:29 pm
The last 20 years have done plenty to kill Arkansas expectations.

Our 9 NCAATs in that time is the same as AU and Minn have had in their entire history
Quote from: MaconBacon on March 22, 2018, 10:30:04 amWe had a good run in the 90's and one NC and now the whole state still laments that we are a top seed program and have kids standing in line to come to good ole Arkansas.  We're just a flash in the pan boys. 

jgphillips3

I seriously doubt that Mike will get fired if we don't make the tournament next year.  However, if he misses it after getting stomped this time, I believe the seat will be very hot for the following season and he could lose his job after that.  A lot will depend on how the freshman play next year and whether or not we fill the gym like we did this year.  If attendance and performance both slip...that will put him in jeopardy.

HawgWild

Quote from: hogsanity on March 19, 2018, 10:49:56 am
When Anderson was hired to replace Sutton, no one KNEW he was going to do here what he did.

You mean Nolan, right? Just checking. OP forgets Heath being let go after 2 consecutive NCAA appearances.

OkieBack

Quote from: jgphillips3 on March 19, 2018, 05:21:06 pm
I seriously doubt that Mike will get fired if we don't make the tournament next year.  However, if he misses it after getting stomped this time, I believe the seat will be very hot for the following season and he could lose his job after that.  A lot will depend on how the freshman play next year and whether or not we fill the gym like we did this year.  If attendance and performance both slip...that will put him in jeopardy.

If we miss the NCAA next year...what could this team of Freshman possible do or look like to save CMA's job after 2018-2019?  I mean way back in 1992 Daryl Hawkins led this team to a 22-9 record with a bunch of Freshman like Corliss Williamson, Scotty Thurman, and Corey Beck.  Folks KNEW these freshman were special.  I'm not saying 2018-2019 Freshman have to live up to that lineup...but I'm just trying to figure out how Mike could hang on after next year with a .500 record?  It doesn't take 8 years to recruit a Sweet 16 basketball team.  This next class will need to look astounding in order to retain CMA minus an NCAA berth.  That or CMA will hire a new assistant who will get the fundamental crap straightened out.  I'm just not as optimistic for Mike anymore.  I sure hope he can work some of Nolan's magic next year.  But it looks bleak to me.

jboler96

Yes ole miss did. It was with Marshall Henderson and this two really good big guys they had.

jboler96


jboler96

I'm really hoping we just have a better overall team next year. More scoring and quality bugs. With khalil,  and jalen the transfer and everyone on the roster improving I think the overall team may be better.  If gafford comes back