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Something is about to change the CFB Landscape in our favor.

Started by HamSammich, July 21, 2017, 12:14:26 pm

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HamSammich

The interesting thing is that we can complain about mods here but I've seen 12 threads deleted within hours on this topic at tigerdrippings. They have gone full gestapo over there on this.

HiggiePiggy

The only real degree needed is managing money. These pro players are really stupid when it comes to their money. 
If a man speaks and no woman is around to hear him, is he still wrong?

 

AirForceHog

What real difference is sitting out a year as opposed to sitting out the bowl game? It's a decision based on the players future. Much like the one and done in basketball. Or a regular Joe deciding to give a two weeks notice just to move on to a better paying gig.
If it turns, burns, banks or rolls, crew chiefs made it happen.

Pig in the Pokey

Quote from: HamSammich on July 21, 2017, 12:14:26 pm
https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/lsu-football/not-crazy-suggest-arden-key-doesnt-return-lsu-prepares-2018-nfl-draft/


From what I hear Key isn't going to play at LSU again and instead is going to sit out and prepare for the NFL for a year.
This was inevitable but there really was always going to be a "first" and we may have it imo.

I believe this is going to let the genie out of the bag. To take it further-- if LSU, Bama, and Auburns top players sit out their junior years each year this is going to greatly level the playing field. I think having a 3 and 4* player 3 and four years is better than a 5* for two years. It levels recruiting out for teams like ours I believe.

As a CFB fan I hate this... as a Razorback fan this is a win win.
The BEST defender (and scariest) in the SEC, maybe the country. That combined with a nuked Ole Piss has maybe bought us a few wins.
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Pig in the Pokey

Quote from: hobhog on July 21, 2017, 02:47:10 pm
wouldn't they just play the next 5 star they signed?
there is no "next " Arden Key. Dude is an absolute beast.
You must be on one if you think i aint on one! ¥420¥   «roastin da bomb in fayettenam» Purspirit Gang

hogfan14

I don't think this would affect his stock that much but I could see some old school GMs questioning his love of the game over it. A lot of these die hard guys who have been in football their whole lives say they would do it for free.

Mike_e

Maybe the kid just doesn't like Oberon (ya, I did spell that right ;) ).

In any case the ones that do take this route will be few and far between.  Not even their best homies could convince most of them to sit back and let their names be forgotten and also to have to give up the lifestyle (and Dodge Chargers) that they get at a football factory.
The best "one thing" for a happy life?
Just be the best person that you can manage.  Right Now!

hobhog

Quote from: HamSammich on July 21, 2017, 06:48:56 pm
The interesting thing is that we can complain about mods here but I've seen 12 threads deleted within hours on this topic at tigerdrippings. They have gone full gestapo over there on this.

Maybe because a player may be actually hurt and people keep saying he is faking?

hobhog

Quote from: Pig in the Pokey on July 21, 2017, 10:00:56 pm
there is no "next " Arden Key. Dude is an absolute beast.

Ill look for him in the Super bowl next year....

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: Pig in the Pokey on July 21, 2017, 10:00:56 pm
there is no "next " Arden Key. Dude is an absolute beast.

I don't know about that. That kind of thing is always overstated until the "next" productive defender shows up. If Key doesn't play they will surely miss him and they will miss an experienced player like Duke Riley as well who had 26 more total Tackles than Key (66.5) but had far fewer Sacks (1.5) than Key who had 12 LY. This is going to place more responsibility on the shoulders of the returning Donnie Alexander. It will also put more responsibility on the shoulders of a kid that we wanted as a RB as I recall, Devin White, who LSU always planned to play at LB (regardless of what they said to get him signed) who had 22.5 Tackles last year along with 3 TFL and 1 Sack as a true Freshman.
Go Hogs Go!

JIMMY BOARFFETT

Money ruins everything.  I'd love to see college football move toward amateur "school boy" football.  Do away with scholarships, let the NFL have their farm teams or whatever, but quit using college football as the farm leagues of the pros. 

I know, I know...
My sources are unreliable, but their information is fascinating.

Inhogswetrust

Quote from: hogsanity on July 21, 2017, 03:23:34 pm
why are you climbing a ladder?

Maybe he's a disciple of one of our more infamous former assistant coaches......................
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

Inhogswetrust

Quote from: Pig in the Pokey on July 21, 2017, 10:00:56 pm
there is no "next " Arden Key. Dude is an absolute beast.

The world is FULL of "absolute beasts" that didn't pan out in the pros..........................
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

 

311Hog

Quote from: Inhogswetrust on July 22, 2017, 10:29:05 am
The world is FULL of "absolute beasts" that didn't pan out in the pros..........................

but there isn't really a world full of beasts.  Yes a lot of players don't pan out but if you put the actual number of 5 star players compared to the US population and it is a TINY TINY TINY fraction of the population that can even sniff what these guys do, that is why they are paid millions of dollars to play a game.

hawganatic

Quote from: Mike_e on July 22, 2017, 07:56:09 am
Not even their best homies could convince most of them to sit back and let their names be forgotten and also to have to give up the lifestyle (and Dodge Chargers) that they get at a football factory.

He won't be giving anything up as far as lifestyle.  I'm sure his agent is going to give him an "advance" and he's going to live pretty comfortably until he is drafted.

Hoggish1

Quote from: HamSammich on July 21, 2017, 12:14:26 pm
https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/lsu-football/not-crazy-suggest-arden-key-doesnt-return-lsu-prepares-2018-nfl-draft/


From what I hear Key isn't going to play at LSU again and instead is going to sit out and prepare for the NFL for a year.
This was inevitable but there really was always going to be a "first" and we may have it imo.

I believe this is going to let the genie out of the bag. To take it further-- if LSU, Bama, and Auburns top players sit out their junior years each year this is going to greatly level the playing field. I think having a 3 and 4* player 3 and four years is better than a 5* for two years. It levels recruiting out for teams like ours I believe.

As a CFB fan I hate this... as a Razorback fan this is a win win.



I doubt these so-called prima donas are going to do that.  The NFL would label that "lack of character" and their draft status would reflect that label.

I can see not playing in post season bowls, though.  Not playing in the post season for anything other than the playoffs is going to become a regular occurrence in college football, IMO... 

One thing that might head sitting out for post season bowls that don't mean anything would be to pay players to play in those games.  They would however have to declare for the draft following their final game of their junior season.  That might work.

Hoggish1

Quote from: HamSammich on July 21, 2017, 12:14:26 pm
https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/lsu-football/not-crazy-suggest-arden-key-doesnt-return-lsu-prepares-2018-nfl-draft/


From what I hear Key isn't going to play at LSU again and instead is going to sit out and prepare for the NFL for a year.
This was inevitable but there really was always going to be a "first" and we may have it imo.

I believe this is going to let the genie out of the bag. To take it further-- if LSU, Bama, and Auburns top players sit out their junior years each year this is going to greatly level the playing field. I think having a 3 and 4* player 3 and four years is better than a 5* for two years. It levels recruiting out for teams like ours I believe.

As a CFB fan I hate this... as a Razorback fan this is a win win.



I doubt these so-called prima donas are going to do that.  The NFL would label that "lack of character" and their draft status would reflect that label.

I can see not playing in post season bowls, though.  Not playing in the post season for anything other than the playoffs is going to become a regular occurrence in college football, IMO... 

One thing that might head sitting out for post season bowls that don't mean anything would be to pay players to play in those games.  They would however have to declare for the draft following their final game of their junior season.  That might work.
Quote from: Surfing8 on July 21, 2017, 12:31:17 pm
Because choosing to sit out and ensure complete health in time for NFL transition is an indictment on one's character? 

How so?  Some moral obligation to the school they're choosing to no longer represent on the field?
With all the leverage as it stands today pointed firmly in the opposite direction?

So, taking your logic a step further, let's say a kid has an awesome true freshman year, wins the heisman, etc., etc. and he leads his team to the NC; what's to say he doesn't sit out his sophomore year, as well? 

See where this could go...?

Cure

Team Economics
From Keynes to Friedman, we know what's up.

Pig in the Pokey

July 22, 2017, 12:28:39 pm #68 Last Edit: July 22, 2017, 01:14:48 pm by Pig in the Pokey
Quote from: hobhog on July 22, 2017, 08:27:50 am
Ill look for him in the Super bowl next year....
no way he falls far enough in the draft to get to a contender, bruh. But you can look for him in the Pro Bowl sometime in his first 3 years. Ya'll some LULZ haters on Key. Just be happy if he doesnt play and dont be so blind to obvious high end talent. He is right there with Clowney and Miles as the best DEs in the SEC in the past decade. If you dont know that you might be living in a "razorback bubble".

And, yes, Duke is also an animal, and I am glad he gone. But of course he had more tackles than Key, he was their designated tackler at LB. He also is a magnet to the ball, really has a nose for it. He had like 20 tackles in the Bama game last year.
You must be on one if you think i aint on one! ¥420¥   «roastin da bomb in fayettenam» Purspirit Gang

Inhogswetrust

Quote from: 311Hog on July 22, 2017, 10:34:33 am
but there isn't really a world full of beasts.  Yes a lot of players don't pan out but if you put the actual number of 5 star players compared to the US population and it is a TINY TINY TINY fraction of the population that can even sniff what these guys do, that is why they are paid millions of dollars to play a game.

I was referring to the multiple players that were considered beasts and didn't plan out. Over the years there have been many. Today's pros are paid millions because it is a very popular entertainment event.
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

bennyl08

Quote from: HiggiePiggy on July 21, 2017, 08:10:14 pm
The only real degree needed is managing money. Humans in general are really stupid when it comes to their money.

FIFY
Quote from: PorkSoda on May 05, 2016, 09:24:05 pm
damn I thought it was only a color, didn't realize it was named after a liqueur. leave it to benny to make me research the history of chartreuse

HamSammich

Pig in the pole is right. Kid is a beast. Better than Clowny imo.

HiggiePiggy

If a man speaks and no woman is around to hear him, is he still wrong?

311Hog

Quote from: Inhogswetrust on July 22, 2017, 05:48:32 pm
I was referring to the multiple players that were considered beasts and didn't plan out. Over the years there have been many. Today's pros are paid millions because it is a very popular entertainment event.

you are missing the point.  the point is the kids like Key have the leverage. People are posting on here like it is 1950's and the players are still working 50 hours at the mill inbetween games.  No the market sets the price and you said it yourself even cant miss 5 star athletes fail at the NFL every day and they are part of less than 1% of the whole countries population. Also the game takes years off your life, so the big pay checks are suppose to be compensation for that.

 

Paul

Quote from: bennyl08 on July 21, 2017, 02:13:40 pm
Bolded is not actually true and is in fact quite rare. While we call somebody with an MD and somebody with a PhD both doctor, they are not the same thing. To get an MD is to be able to regurgitate a bunch of memorized knowledge and you are good to go. A medical doctor with a doctorate has had to do brand new research and go a lot further in schooling than a typical MD.

Similarly, with law. While it is called a JD, you don't have to do anything original. You have to study what already exists, take tests and write some short papers about what already exists, and voila.

Contrast that to a PhD where you have to expand the field you are getting a PhD in to earn one. You have to do something that nobody has ever done before and expand human knowledge. JD and MD are basically like the first half of a PhD where you have to take the advanced classes, pass some hard tests and that's typically done by the end of the 2nd or third year, with the later 3+ years devoted to research and thesis writing.
You obviously aren't that familiar with medical education.

Pork Twain

One player, does not a trend make.  Also, genies are in bottles, not bags.  I do not see this catching on in a big way
"It is better to be an optimist and proven wrong, than a pessimist and proven right." ~Pork Twain

https://www.facebook.com/groups/sweetmemes/

jneal56

Quote from: Paul on July 23, 2017, 07:48:28 am
You obviously aren't that familiar with medical education.

I've had several people try to argue that their doctorates were superior to mine and others and I've always just said it took me a lot of hard work to earn mine and I'm sure the work was equally as difficult for everyone else. Amazes me how others will attempt to tear down anyone elses accomplishments in life instead of congratulating them. To each their own agenda I suppose.

He definitely has not a clue that is certain.
"At least we are moral"

rzrbackramsfan

Before last years bowl season I would've argued that NfL execs wouldn't draft a guy that set out a year.  I mean what does that say about your love for the game?  However, after seeing founette and Mccaffrey get drafted high anyways, there's no doubt in my mind that kids sitting out their junior year is a possibility.  And I agree, that will help Arkansas.

Pig in the Pokey

Quote from: HamSammich on July 22, 2017, 08:40:41 pm
Pig in the poke is right. Kid is a beast. Better than Clowny imo.
Word. I can tell you that QBs the conference over are hoping he doesnt play. There arent too many guys who have the potential on any given play of destroying an SEC O-lineman and getting a free death stroke type shot on a poor lightweight QB. Arden-Key is the most likely one of them.
You must be on one if you think i aint on one! ¥420¥   «roastin da bomb in fayettenam» Purspirit Gang

sickboy

Quote from: Hog Fan...DOH! on July 21, 2017, 12:47:22 pm
He was actually not that awesome.

DGB barely lasted two seasons in the NFL. He had the potential, but was the antithesis of awesome.

Bacons Rebellion

The reasons "professional" occupations require university degrees is twofold:

1) Consumer protection. A valid degree is the difference between a charlatan and a doctor. The doctor may not be competent in all ways, (and I got references for my radiologist) but an MD degree at least assures he has met some minimum qualifications. You can't watch the doctor perform to judge if he worthy or not. This is true for "lesser" professions to a lesser degree -- electronics assemblers need soldering certificates.

2) Trade protection. Requiring a degree limits competition in the profession which limits supply and increases pay rate / salary etc.

Neither is true of athletes. These individuals CAN show their abilities and the people who are willing to hire them do not need protection from charlatans. Ability already limits competition and keeps salaries high.

jneal56

Quote from: Bacons Rebellion on July 23, 2017, 01:51:10 pm
The reasons "professional" occupations require university degrees is twofold:

1) Consumer protection. A valid degree is the difference between a charlatan and a doctor. The doctor may not be competent in all ways, (and I got references for my radiologist) but an MD degree at least assures he has met some minimum qualifications. You can't watch the doctor perform to judge if he worthy or not. This is true for "lesser" professions to a lesser degree -- electronics assemblers need soldering certificates.

2) Trade protection. Requiring a degree limits competition in the profession which limits supply and increases pay rate / salary etc.

Neither is true of athletes. These individuals CAN show their abilities and the people who are willing to hire them do not need protection from charlatans. Ability already limits competition and keeps salaries high.

Correct but you still didn't address my selfish desire to have our athletes for longer!! :) Go Hogs!!
"At least we are moral"

hogsanity

For all of you that think sitting in college is going to hurt them with NFL Gm's you are crazy. The NFL wants one thing, a player who can help them win, PERIOD. If you think that isn't true, look at how many really good players get 2nd, 3rd, 4th or more chances in the NFL when they continually screw up, get arrested, hold out for more $ etc.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

The Kig

It may be inevitable unless the 3 year post HS rule gets changed.  Clarett challenged it, won and then it was overturned.  Until then, it's a slippery slope.  While the NFL probably can't have something like a D-league or a sanctioned formal process, they're not going to be excited if a guy just skips his junior year and ends up out of shape when the craft rolls around.

I get that there is "tread life" on players at many positions and risking injury on an average team can cost them millions.  However, if it starts becoming a trend it will have to be addressed.  If a few players sit out their JR year to prep for the NFL and don't make it out of minicamp, they are jobless and the NFL will mitigate their risk.

Maybe the rule changes... 3 years out of HS or 20 years old.  Some of these kids are 18-19 by the time they get to campus. 

Poker Porker

hogsanity

Quote from: The Kig on July 24, 2017, 11:27:41 am
It may be inevitable unless the 3 year post HS rule gets changed.  Clarett challenged it, won and then it was overturned.  Until then, it's a slippery slope.  While the NFL probably can't have something like a D-league or a sanctioned formal process, they're not going to be excited if a guy just skips his junior year and ends up out of shape when the craft rolls around.

I get that there is "tread life" on players at many positions and risking injury on an average team can cost them millions.  However, if it starts becoming a trend it will have to be addressed.  If a few players sit out their JR year to prep for the NFL and don't make it out of minicamp, they are jobless and the NFL will mitigate their risk.

Maybe the rule changes... 3 years out of HS or 20 years old.  Some of these kids are 18-19 by the time they get to campus. 



Most players who would have the foresight to sit out in college are not going to do so and not stay in shape. They are going to sign with an agent, get upfront money, go to work with personal trainers, speed coaches, strength coaches etc to up their draft stock as much as possible.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Jek Tono Porkins

Quote from: ThisTeetsTaken on July 21, 2017, 02:49:18 pm
So why not kick these kids off the team and out of the program so they can use the scholly money on someone that wants to play?
That's what I was thinking. If a kid told me he wanted to sit out for a year and prepare for the draft, I'd say that's fine. You can prepare for the draft, but don't expect to use our resources to fund it if you're not going to play. If you're as good as you think you are, quit the team and sign with a combine prep firm or transfer somewhere else and sit out there. If you're still the number one pick, no harm no foul. But it's a college coach's job to win college football games.
I have known the troubles I was born to know
I have wanted things a poor man's born to want
And in all my dreams and memories I go running
Through the fields of Arkansas from which I sprung

The Kig

Quote from: HiggiePiggy on July 21, 2017, 08:10:14 pm
The only real degree needed is managing money. These pro players are really stupid when it comes to their money.

College isn't going to change that.  Every NFL team has a guy whose sole job is to work with the players on how to properly manage their new found wealth.  In most cases I know about, it's a former player... So the fact that they end up blowing it all thinking it will last forever isn't going to change because they took some finance course. 
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