*Official* "Todd McShay was right" thread

[big_ol_meat]

And, still yet, they have been balling out as starting QBs of winning teams (until age caught up with Favre).

That's my point.  It's not the off field issues.  They took two highly suspect players in the first round.  Maybe there is a reason THIRTY TWO TEAMS passed on him.  He just isn't as good as everyone in Hogland wants to believe. 

[superior_wang]

No one is smirking. I would have loved to have seen Mallet go first round; but I am BEGGING Hog fans to start being reasonable and rationale. I'm so sick of our fans trashing anyone who says anything remotely negative about our program or our players no matter if it's true or not. It just makes us all look silly.

Mallet obviously wasn't first round material. Big deal, it's not the end of the world to admit that.

its an uphill battle my good man.  I am objective here , and I have over 3000 smites because im not a boot licking lacky like 97.456 % of the toolsheds on here.  Good luck.

[PorkSoda]

It's not game play.  It's not off the field issues.  It's just the fact he came out at the wrong time.  Mobile QB's are always a hot commodity.  There are only a few true pocket passing teams.  I don't see why everyone thinks its a smear campaign.  Mallett just doesn't have the upside as a more mobile QB. 

his mobility didn't hurt him in games.  its not like he took significantly more sacks than more mobile QB's.  he's even run for TD's, First downs, thown TD's while on the run.  On the field he is the best QB in the draft.  the only thing I can guess is it being about perception.  he did everything right, but it didn't matter.  the effort to smear his name worked. 

depending on what happens today, we'll see how well it worked.  I assume some GM's felt confident they could get him in the second round due to the smear campaign, which is why they gambled and took another player in the first.

[big_ol_meat]

its an uphill battle my good man.  I am objective here , and I have over 3000 smites because im not a boot licking lacky like 97.456 % of the toolsheds on here.  Good luck.

I usually like people with more smites.  General rule of thumb usually means they are level headed......and not hogville lemmings.

[PorkSoda]

That's my point.  It's not the off field issues.  They took two highly suspect players in the first round.  Maybe there is a reason THIRTY TWO TEAMS passed on him.  He just isn't as good as everyone in Hogland wants to believe. 

please,  he proved it with better stats against tougher competition than any other QB in the draft minus the scam meister.

[The Hogfather]

Mobile QB's are always a hot commodity.

Look at the teams that win most often and they have pocket passers.  That doesn't mean that their QBs can't run for some yards from time to time, but 90% of the time, they're throwing from in the pocket.  Period.  Manning, Ryan, Flacco, Rivers, Manning, Brady, Cassel, etc, etc, etc.

There are only a few true pocket passing teams.

Dumb statement.  It just isn't true.

I don't see why everyone thinks its a smear campaign.  Mallett just doesn't have the upside as a more mobile QB. 

Mobility doesn't matter in the NFL.  AGAIN, see all the guys above.  Peyton Manning couldn't out run a legless dog.  Brady is slower than a car with 1 wheel. 

[The Hogfather]

That's my point.  It's not the off field issues.  They took two highly suspect players in the first round.  Maybe there is a reason THIRTY TWO TEAMS passed on him.  He just isn't as good as everyone in Hogland wants to believe. 

The best thing is, we'll get to see who's right in a couple of years.

I can't wait for him to prove all the naysayers wrong.  It is going to be fun.

[Kevin n Hog Heaven]

It's not about who's right or wrong. Mallett was a long shot for the first round and virtually every expert predicted this. Hog fans simply cannot look through their rose colored glasses and understand why. My opinion is simply this...

1. He could never win the "big games" and choked when he needed to be the composed leader. (Alabama, Ohio State)
2. The other intangibles of "character issues" that just wasn't worth taking a chance on in the first round.

I am a firm believer that #1 would have cancelled out #2 if the big games had been won.

[nosferatu]

That's my point.  It's not the off field issues.  They took two highly suspect players in the first round.  Maybe there is a reason THIRTY TWO TEAMS passed on him.  He just isn't as good as everyone in Hogland wants to believe.

that's the sad truth. NFL teams just don't think he's good enough to be a first rounder. that's it. doesn't necessarily mean they think he doesn't have a chance to be successful, they just think 1st round is too high. (now, why Ponder was picked at 12 is beyond me). it's not off the field concerns that pushed him out of the first round. Jimmy Smith had MAJOR concerns and still went in the 1st, because he was talented enough for someone to take a chance on him.

apparently, NFL teams think the other qb's have more potential. they feel like they can teach these guys how to run a prostyle offense and read defenses and so on. you can't teach Mallett to run faster. you can't give him leg-transplants. his immobility is his biggest downfall, not off the field stuff.

[nosferatu]

his mobility didn't hurt him in games.

yes, it did. pressure got to him in the Alabama game and was unable to avoid it or move out of the pocket. so what does he do? he relies on his big arm, doesn't set his feet right and throws an interception late in the 4th that costed Arkansas the game.

[The Hogfather]

apparently, NFL teams think the other qb's have more potential. they feel like they can teach these guys how to run a prostyle offense and read defenses and so on. you can't teach Mallett to run faster. you can't give him leg-transplants. his immobility is his biggest downfall, not off the field stuff.

Even though this mentality continually proves to be wrong.  They take all these guys with loads of "potential", who aren't very good QBs, and try to turn them into big time NFL QBs.  It rarely works.

[The Hogfather]

yes, it did. pressure got to him in the Alabama game and was unable to avoid it or move out of the pocket. so what does he do? he relies on his big arm, doesn't set his feet right and throws an interception late in the 4th that costed Arkansas the game.

And, yet, he only had 2 more sacks than Gabbert/Newton/Ponder.  Hmmmmm........

[nosferatu]

Look at the teams that win most often and they have pocket passers.  That doesn't mean that their QBs can't run for some yards from time to time, but 90% of the time, they're throwing from in the pocket.  Period.  Manning, Ryan, Flacco, Rivers, Manning, Brady, Cassel, etc, etc, etc.

Dumb statement.  It just isn't true.

Mobility doesn't matter in the NFL.  AGAIN, see all the guys above.  Peyton Manning couldn't out run a legless dog.  Brady is slower than a car with 1 wheel.

Mobility DOES matter in the NFL. when people say Mallett's immobility is a concern, they don't mean that he won't be successful because he can't ran a 4.5 40. they mean that he is a statue in the pocket and can't even avoid pressure. it's not about running for 1st downs, it's about avoiding pressure in the pocket, which he can't do very good. Manning and Brady can't run, but they sure as hell know how to avoid pressure. Mallett was a sitting duck in the Sugar Bowl.

[PorkSoda]

yes, it did. pressure got to him in the Alabama game and was unable to avoid it or move out of the pocket. so what does he do? he relies on his big arm, doesn't set his feet right and throws an interception late in the 4th that costed Arkansas the game.

I mean overall.  he had 25 sacks for the season compared to 22 for cam.  his ability to read defenses, and thrown quickly against the blitz mostly negated his lack of mobility.  sure he made some mistakes when the defense diguised the blitz or faked the blitz, but that will happen when you play against a defense as good as bama and OSU.  if gabbert had to play either of those Defenses he would have been utterly destroyed.

[nosferatu]

Even though this mentality continually proves to be wrong.  They take all these guys with loads of "potential", who aren't very good QBs, and try to turn them into big time NFL QBs.  It rarely works.

i never said it does work. i'm just saying why the NFL teams don't consider Mallett a first rounder.

[PorkSoda]

Mobility DOES matter in the NFL. when people say Mallett's immobility is a concern, they don't mean that he won't be successful because he can't ran a 4.5 40. they mean that he is a statue in the pocket and can't even avoid pressure. it's not about running for 1st downs, it's about avoiding pressure in the pocket, which he can't do very good. Manning and Brady can't run, but they sure as hell know how to avoid pressure. Mallett was a sitting duck in the Sugar Bowl.

he moves fine in the pocket when its there. 

[The Hogfather]

they mean that he is a statue in the pocket and can't even avoid pressure.

That's a myth.  It just isn't true.  If that was the case, he would've been sacked a lot more in 411 attempts.

it's not about running for 1st downs, it's about avoiding pressure in the pocket, which he can't do very good.

Again, apparently not.  Look at the guys who were drafted yesterday.  They don't just move in the pocket.  They all run for 1st downs.  GMs are so enamored with that.

Manning and Brady can't run, but they sure as hell know how to avoid pressure. Mallett was a sitting duck in the Sugar Bowl.

Again, so does Mallett, or he would've been sacked a lot more than he was in 411 attempts.  That's just the truth.

Ponder/Newton had almost 200 less atempts than Mallett and only took 2 less sacks than Mallett did.

Gabbert was sacked 23 times and he ran that dink and dunk offense where he gets the ball out of his hand immediately about 99% of the time.

[nosferatu]

I mean overall.  he had 25 sacks for the season compared to 22 for cam.  his ability to read defenses, and thrown quickly against the blitz mostly negated his lack of mobility.  sure he made some mistakes when the defense diguised the blitz or faked the blitz, but that will happen when you play against a defense as good as bama and OSU.   if gabbert had to play either of those Defenses he would have been utterly destroyed.

he moves fine in the pocket when its there.

oh i didn't realise that NFL defenses were going to be easier to deal with than Alabama or Ohio State's. my bad.

[The Hogfather]

I mean overall.  he had 25 sacks for the season compared to 22 for cam.  his ability to read defenses, and thrown quickly against the blitz mostly negated his lack of mobility.  sure he made some mistakes when the defense diguised the blitz or faked the blitz, but that will happen when you play against a defense as good as bama and OSU.  if gabbert had to play either of those Defenses he would have been utterly destroyed.

All QBs make mistakes.  I've seen Brady/Manning miss a dropping d-lineman and throw interceptions tons of times.  I've seen Brady/Manning get sacked a ton of times when their o-line doesn't give them the protection they need.  It happens. 

[The Hogfather]

oh i didn't realise that NFL defenses were going to be easier to deal with than Alabama or Ohio State's. my bad.

They have better offensive lines to deal with those defenses.  Are you really this retarded?

[ar_hog_fan]

There you go again. Comparing him to two all time greats. Really, you need some help with you professed Mallett love. He shouldn't even be in the same breath as those two, much less a Bradford, Manning or Matt Ryan. He hasn't earned the respect that those guys have. Breaking records, playing at a high level on multiple levels. Not choking when the games on the line. Yes, he was a great Hog. Won games for the program. You just can't let that cloud your judgement. Heck, Josh Heupel won a NC at OU, Nate Hybl and Paul Thompson won Big 12 titles and had similar stats to RM. Where are they now? Hybl is a lawyer(he had a cannon for an arm and was very accurate) and Thompson is radio talk show host in Tulsa. Point being, is you don't have to be a top round draft choice to carry a college football program. There are many QB's out there that had fantastic stats in college and didn't make it in the pros.

off topic, but whatever became of jason white?

[nosferatu]

That's a myth.  It just isn't true.  If that was the case, he would've been sacked a lot more in 411 attempts.

Again, apparently not.  Look at the guys who were drafted yesterday.  They don't just move in the pocket.  They all run for 1st downs.  GMs are so enamored with that.

Again, so does Mallett, or he would've been sacked a lot more than he was in 411 attempts.  That's just the truth.

Ponder/Newton had almost 200 less atempts than Mallett and only took 2 less sacks than Mallett did.

Gabbert was sacked 23 times and he ran that dink and dunk offense where he gets the ball out of his hand immediately about 99% of the time.

being unable to avoid pressure isn't just measured in the amount of sacks a quarterback takes. interceptions, incomplete passes, inaccuracy.

i'm just trying to say that maybe there's a reason that everyone passed up on him in the first round. i find it hard to believe that every single GM in the NFL is just "too stupid to not pick Mallett in the first" like you say. who knows, maybe it is all about the off the field stuff, maybe they know something we don't?

or maybe, this may come as a shock to you, but maybe, just maybe, Mallett is actually a 2nd round talent? but that can't be, i'm sure that every single person that works in the NFL are just "too stupid" and "don't know what they're doing".

[nosferatu]

They have better offensive lines to deal with those defenses.  Are you really this retarded?

lol and they have better defensive lines to cause havoc against those offensive lines. surely you didn't think that statement was going to work, did you? oh no wait, you're right, in the NFL the defenses stay the same as in college, and only the offensive lines get better. sorry, i forgot about that, slipped my mind.

[DukeOfPork]

off topic, but whatever became of jason white?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_White_%28American_football%29#Post_football_life

[The Hogfather]

being unable to avoid pressure isn't just measured in the amount of sacks a quarterback takes. interceptions, incomplete passes, inaccuracy.

Mallett compares favorably in all those categories as well.  Keep grasping.

i'm just trying to say that maybe there's a reason that everyone passed up on him in the first round. i find it hard to believe that every single GM in the NFL is just "too stupid to not pick Mallett in the first" like you say. who knows, maybe it is all about the off the field stuff, maybe they know something we don't?

Peter King says that Mallett would've been the #1 overall pick if he had Tebow's "character".

or maybe, this may come as a shock to you, but maybe, just maybe, Mallett is actually a 2nd round talent? but that can't be, i'm sure that every single person that works in the NFL are just "too stupid" and "don't know what they're doing".

He has #1 overall talent.  That's not 2nd round talent.  The concerns are off the field and GMs will be kicking themselves in 5 years for passing on him for these concerns.

[The Hogfather]

lol and they have better defensive lines to cause havoc against those offensive lines.

So, relatively speaking, it is no different than college football.  They offset each other.

surely you didn't think that statement was going to work, did you?

Not with you because you're clearly lacking some mental function.

oh no wait, you're right, in the NFL the defenses stay the same as in college, and only the offensive lines get better. sorry, i forgot about that, slipped my mind.

You really must be that retarded.

[PorkSoda]

All QBs make mistakes.  I've seen Brady/Manning miss a dropping d-lineman and throw interceptions tons of times.  I've seen Brady/Manning get sacked a ton of times when their o-line doesn't give them the protection they need.  It happens. 

but for somereason people overlook the fact that he can make every throw and focus on mistakes he made that every QB makes.

[Biggus Piggus]

Mallett outperformed every QB drafted save Newton, period. But those teams that selected QBs don't want a pocket passer.

[Biggus Piggus]

And McShay wasn't right. Not yet. He didn't say Mallett wasn't a first rounder. McShay said Mallett would fall to round 3 or 4.

[Y-lee-coyote]

How did this thread go from the "official " todd canbiteme Mcshay was right to the Official Hogfather is butthurt over  RM not getting drafted in the first round?

I mean seriously hogfather, why do you suppose he wasn't taken in the first round? You certainly don't expect us to believe that YOU alone are smarter than all the GM's and owners in the NFL. That every last one of them are somehow less knowledgable than you about RM.
What you failed to understand is that even though we went 10-3 and made our first trip to the Sugar Bowl, we didn't win anything with Mallett as our QB. Oh we indeed saw our program grow and we saw the entire team take a step up in talent, but we hav NO hardware to show for it. Not even so much as a SEC champions of the west world title and ring to show for it.

On the field boils down to 3 things, Alabama, critical interception late as he stumbles trying to throw it away. Aubbie, MIA due to injury second string QB comes on and looks pretty decent. He Kind of made it look like anybody could do it.  Lastly, tosu, chance at a game winner and throwws into a Zone Blitz, victimized by wrinkle put in just for that situation.

As a Hog fan I know the stories behind all those plays and believe that they are anomalies not the real RM. However, even as a hogfan, if you point that out to me as evidence that he is a choke artist the only rebuttal I can offer is to say his overall body of work  is not large enough to support that conclusion. His detractors can say thaat well all the evidence points to it being so and they would be unwilling to invest reedonkulous amounts of money to have that be the face of the franchise.

Throw in the suburban kid talking and acting ghetto fabulous and that raises even more red flags. His cockiness while endearingg us to him could easily turn people off FAST if he doesn't WIN something. We were nearly orgasmic to be able to raise our heads above mediocrity for really since the first time we entered the league, we could easily dismiss those things. Besides, we figured the coach that sent home senior starters over being late for the liberty bowl could a cocky brash young QB.  Pay first round money, maybe not so easy to just gloss over. 

I would also suggest to hogfather that when you debate with others, if the desire to resort to namecalling becomes overwhelming you must know that doing so undermines you position. In fact, it really makes you look as stupid right now in this very thread as you say everyone else is going to look in five years.

Most of us hogfans will rather be talking about where that QB is going to be taken in the draft instead of getting our knickers in a twist over OMG look how good RM is, I told you so..

[The Hogfather]

I would also suggest to hogfather that when you debate with others, if the desire to resort to namecalling becomes overwhelming you must know that doing so undermines you position.

You're a doosh.

I'm not butthurt at all.  Not one bit.  I'm not mad.  I'm not frustrated.  I'm not being a homer.  This has no effect on my life at all and I treat it that way.  I'm simply calling it the way it is.  These guys are going to look like idiots in the coming years.

He has #1 overall talent.  Many people have said it or something similar, including Phil Simms, Kurt Warner, and Peter King, just to name a few.

Now, quit being a doosh.

[PorkSoda]

Mallett outperformed every QB drafted save Newton, period. But those teams that selected QBs don't want a pocket passer.

I don't watch the NFL, but since when did the NFL stop using pocket passers.  dual threat QB's have rarely had any level of sustained success.  almost every great QB ever mention has been a pocket passer, with few exceptions.

[big_ol_meat]

What's really going to throw you for a loop is when hog fans look down to the Texas Tech's and Hawaii's of the college world and say they are just a "system quarterback" realize that maybe that's what we are here.  I believe Tyler Wilson's 300+ yards 2.5 quarter performance against the National Champions showed that anyone can put up stats in CBP's offense.  That might have hurt RM a little in the draft. 

[PorkSoda]

What's really going to throw you for a loop is when hog fans look down to the Texas Tech's and Hawaii's of the college world and say they are just a "system quarterback" realize that maybe that's what we are here.  I believe Tyler Wilson's 300+ yards 2.5 quarter performance against the National Champions showed that anyone can put up stats in CBP's offense.  That might have hurt RM a little in the draft. 

shut up with the damn system crap.  Every offense has a system.  Petrinos just happens to by a pro style system vs hawaii which is a shotgun system.  and then you have auburn which is a HS system.  now you tell me which system translates to the NFL and which ones don't


and tyler isn't just any old QB, he is a very talented QB who has been preparing hard for his chance and was able to take advantage of that chance.

[nosferatu]

shut up with the damn system crap.  Every offense has a system.  Petrinos just happens to by a pro style system vs hawaii which is a shotgun system.  and then you have auburn which is a HS system.  now you tell me which system translates to the NFL and which ones don't

that "High School offense" just produced a Number 1 overall draft pick.

now, whether or not Cam is successful, that's a different story.

[nosferatu]

What's really going to throw you for a loop is when hog fans look down to the Texas Tech's and Hawaii's of the college world and say they are just a "system quarterback" realize that maybe that's what we are here.  I believe Tyler Wilson's 300+ yards 2.5 quarter performance against the National Champions showed that anyone can put up stats in CBP's offense.   That might have hurt RM a little in the draft.

Casey Dick is another good example. every quarterback is going to put up great numbers in Petrino's offense. just sayin...

[HogBreath]

How did this thread go from the "official " todd canbiteme Mcshay was right to the Official Hogfather is butthurt over  RM not getting drafted in the first round?

From what I've seen and know, HogFather is smarter than some/many NFL GM's.  If those guys are soooo smart, how come they're usually wrong?  And if you were very smart Y-lee, you'd shut up and pay attention to what HF is trying to tell ya, or you can go ahead and argue with him and let him tear you a new a hole.

[PorkSoda]

that "High School offense" just produced a Number 1 overall draft pick.

now, whether or not Cam is successful, that's a different story.

a number 1 draft pick that needs flash cards to tell him what play to run.

[PorkSoda]

It's been a growing trend. They aren't looking for option QBs, but ones that can move when needed and aren't locked inside the pocket.

since when did being mobile become more important than being able to pass?  what's the QB's job?

[dynastyhog]

You can post your apologies for his expert call on Mallett not being a first rounder in this thread.

I'll eat crow if he fails in the NFL.

[The Hogfather]

It's been a growing trend. They aren't looking for option QBs, but ones that can move when needed and aren't locked inside the pocket.

It's a failing trend as well. 

[big_ol_meat]

"Auburn led the SEC in scoring offense, total offense, rushing offense, pass efficiency, first downs and first down conversions"

If you're attacking the "High School" system then I don't understand your point. 

[The Hogfather]

"Auburn led the SEC in scoring offense, total offense, rushing offense, pass efficiency, first downs and first down conversions"

If you're attacking the "High School" system then I don't understand your point. 

It is football by numbers.  Look to the sideline for the big board, run the play associated with that number.  If the one WR you're supposed to throw to is not wide arse open, run.

[big_ol_meat]

I don't get it.  Are you saying that's a bad system?  If so I say this:
"Auburn led the SEC in scoring offense, total offense, rushing offense, pass efficiency, first downs and first down conversions"

Think Cam wasn't a good quarterback?
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5909569

Maybe it was just because he was in a system and the Heisman was rigged?
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2011/news/story?id=6450238&campaign=rss&source=NFLHeadlines

I guess the next logical thing is McShay obvious paid the first 32 teams to not draft Mallett to prove a point and somehow paid extra for Carolina to draft Cam number 1 right?

[The Hogfather]

From what I've seen and know, HogFather is smarter than some/many NFL GM's.  If those guys are soooo smart, how come they're usually wrong?  And if you were very smart Y-lee, you'd shut up and pay attention to what HF is trying to tell ya, or you can go ahead and argue with him and let him tear you a new a hole.

I'm just glad we'll get to watch this unfold over the next few years.  We'll get to see who's right and who's wrong.

[The Hogfather]

Coaches and GMs in the NFL seem to disagree.

And the ones who do tend to significantly move up in the draft order each year.

The ones with pocket passers continue to dominate.

[dynastyhog]

"Auburn led the SEC in scoring offense, total offense, rushing offense, pass efficiency, first downs and first down conversions"

If you're attacking the "High School" system then I don't understand your point.

Would you agree or disagree that they don't lead in all those categories w/o Cam?  Not attacking they system, but Cam was a beast.  If the system is so awesome how come they didn't lead in everything in 09?

[big_ol_meat]

I'm just glad we'll get to watch this unfold over the next few years.  We'll get to see who's right and who's wrong.

You still haven't answered.  If you lived 2000 miles away, had 10,000 other athletes to choose from, and heard just rumors of drug use, would you pay 30 million dollars and hope he stays on the level?

[big_ol_meat]

Would you agree or disagree that they don't lead in all those categories w/o Cam?  Not attacking they system, but Cam was a beast.  If the system is so awesome how come they didn't lead in everything in 09?

No clue.  First year?  Maybe Chizik kept Malzhan on a leash?  We'll find out this year.  Hard to argue with production.  But he did it at Tulsa as well.......

[The Hogfather]

You still haven't answered.  If you lived 2000 miles away, had 10,000 other athletes to choose from, and heard just rumors of drug use, would you pay 30 million dollars and hope he stays on the level?

I've already answered you.