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The press?

Started by jpsand, November 23, 2017, 07:28:12 pm

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jpsand

I think that when you've got a great penetrating guard the press only gives up easy baskets.  When they stopped pressing in the sound half it slowed Oklahoma scoring.  I worry a little too about giving up 80 points.  You won't  always shoot like we did tonight.  Even thou Walton is an idiot he said it several times "Arkansas has out played them but they're  only 3 points down".  I think that was from us hitting great shots then pressing and giving up easy lay ins.  May be worried about nothing but I'd still like to see more defense and drop the press if it's not working.

LRHog

We may not shoot as good as we did? More like Oklahoma wont. They shot like 70% in the first half and were down 5.

 

Hog Fan from Camden

Quote from: jpsand on November 23, 2017, 07:28:12 pm
I think that when you've got a great penetrating guard the press only gives up easy baskets.  When they stopped pressing in the sound half it slowed Oklahoma scoring.  I worry a little too about giving up 80 points.  You won't  always shoot like we did tonight.  Even thou Walton is an idiot he said it several times "Arkansas has out played them but they're  only 3 points down".  I think that was from us hitting great shots then pressing and giving up easy lay ins.  May be worried about nothing but I'd still like to see more defense and drop the press if it's not working.
Walton also said OU would win by 10 going away!

jjdlc

Quote from: jpsand on November 23, 2017, 07:28:12 pm
I think that when you've got a great penetrating guard the press only gives up easy baskets.  When they stopped pressing in the sound half it slowed Oklahoma scoring.  I worry a little too about giving up 80 points.  You won't  always shoot like we did tonight.  Even thou Walton is an idiot he said it several times "Arkansas has out played them but they're  only 3 points down".  I think that was from us hitting great shots then pressing and giving up easy lay ins.  May be worried about nothing but I'd still like to see more defense and drop the press if it's not working.

Also, we gave up 80 to a team that had been averaging 108.  We hit our season average while holding a very good scoring offense below their usual pace.  I'm not saying it was perfect, but it was encouraging.

ShadowHawg

Will threads like this ever go away? What we do works.

Time for some folks to start trying to figure out why it works instead of constantly questioning it.

HawgsPolo

Quote from: ShadowHawg on November 23, 2017, 07:39:49 pm
Will threads like this ever go away? What we do works.

Time for some folks to start trying to figure out why it works instead of constantly questioning it.
Go Cubs Go!!!!!

jpsand

I agree we did great but it is really frustrating to make a great and tough shot then they break the press and make a slam or lay up.  If the press works great but if not drop back and dog the heck out of them in half court

The_Bionic_Pig

Quote from: jpsand on November 23, 2017, 07:28:12 pm
I think that when you've got a great penetrating guard the press only gives up easy baskets.  When they stopped pressing in the sound half it slowed Oklahoma scoring.  I worry a little too about giving up 80 points.  You won't  always shoot like we did tonight.  Even thou Walton is an idiot he said it several times "Arkansas has out played them but they're  only 3 points down".  I think that was from us hitting great shots then pressing and giving up easy lay ins.  May be worried about nothing but I'd still like to see more defense and drop the press if it's not working.

Arkansas did some token pressing and the Sooners ran scored and ran  etc...until they were out of gassed Midway through the 2nd half...

That's when you noticed a lot of no-calls fouling on their behalf.
█ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▃ ▂ ▁ *Mute*

HawgnCorona

They seem to be most effective applying pressure in the half court. I think we have seen that in every game this year. With a little pressure full court. They really stifled Samford. Tonight was the most, I think we have really pressed after a made basket. The Scooners handled to pretty good, got a few easy buckets. But Gaff was protecting the rim too.
Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all your getting, get understanding." --   Proverbs 4:7

"Live justly, love mercy and to walk humbly with the Most High."-- Micah 6:8

azhog10

The press is more about getting them to shoot rushed shots than it is getting steals. Make other guys take quick shots. Then run. I thought we rebounded pretty well considering OU is traditionally a good rebounding team.

Lakerhog

Pressing was dumb. OU broke it and scored every time. No one can shoot in college - 2-3 zone will win you a lot of games, especially with our length.

HawgnCorona

We did a good job rebounding...
Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all your getting, get understanding." --   Proverbs 4:7

"Live justly, love mercy and to walk humbly with the Most High."-- Micah 6:8

Nosboar Accubond

OU shot lights out and lost by 10, the CMA presses for fatigue more than turnovers. Make them get sloppy the last 10 minutes of the game, which they did.

 

wedge56

We beat a good team. As long as we score more than the other team not that concerned about how many they score. We play fast. Of course we will give up some easy baskets. Enjoy the win and get used to it. There are many more to come.

Springfield_MO_Razorback

Quote from: Nosboar Accubond on November 23, 2017, 08:25:57 pm
OU shot lights out and lost by 10, the CMA presses for fatigue more than turnovers. Make them get sloppy the last 10 minutes of the game, which they did.

This is what I saw. Not sure what anyone else seen. Great win by margins against a high powered offense.

rwspear

Quote from: jpsand on November 23, 2017, 07:44:05 pm
I agree we did great but it is really frustrating to make a great and tough shot then they break the press and make a slam or lay up.  If the press works great but if not drop back and dog the heck out of them in half court

luckily our defensive strategy has more layers to it than that.

Letsroll1200

Quote from: Nosboar Accubond on November 23, 2017, 08:25:57 pm
OU shot lights out and lost by 10, the CMA presses for fatigue more than turnovers. Make them get sloppy the last 10 minutes of the game, which they did.

This! The last 4 or 5 minutes Oklahoma was done.  It's frustrating at times but it worked this game.

rwspear

Quote from: Nosboar Accubond on November 23, 2017, 08:25:57 pm
OU shot lights out and lost by 10, the CMA presses for fatigue more than turnovers. Make them get sloppy the last 10 minutes of the game, which they did.

this is called the meta game and OP is someone who doesn't get it.

labb

Quote from: rwspear on November 23, 2017, 08:33:41 pm
this is called the meta game and OP is someone who doesn't get it.
Our D held a high power offense to 20 points below their average and some are complaining about our D..Think the poster is correct some just don't get it and never will.

rzrbackramsfan

Yes, OU was killing us on the press, I believe we made adjustemts, some adjustments more successful than others but in the end we won

hogmolar

These threads were not here complaining when Young's shots were short and he only had a few free throws in the second half. All due to tired legs.

Dominicanhog

November 23, 2017, 08:57:04 pm #21 Last Edit: November 23, 2017, 09:55:07 pm by Dominicanhog
I thought when we had that stretch in the first half were we were pressing all over the court, we gave up some easy baskets and it did not look effective, but shortly there after OU  appeared dead and had we hit a few shots late in the first half, they were ready to blow the doors off..  but we missed layups, turned it over or took a bad shot during this stretch ,,,,,Mike uses the press to get in the legs...

ChicoHog

Quote from: rzrbackramsfan on November 23, 2017, 08:39:48 pm
Yes, OU was killing us on the press, I believe we made adjustemts, some adjustments more successful than others but in the end we won
Agreed.  We don't need to press nearly as much.  Trae Young is a real good player and I think will be a star.  I'd much rather see us play half court man to man or zone but as long as we are shooting well and Gafford is controlling the boards we will win a lot of games. 

Hogs49ers

Just shaking my head right now...facepalm.

I am an idiot for thinking people would start understanding why we do it this year...
SCREW Vandy!

 

checkraiser88

We press to push the tempo in the game, we forced 19 turnovers in the process by rushing them

SPAL

Quote from: Hogs49ers on November 23, 2017, 09:41:11 pm
Just shaking my head right now...facepalm.

I am an idiot for thinking people would start understanding why we do it this year...

Never gonna happen.

Dominicanhog

Quote from: ChicoHog on November 23, 2017, 09:33:07 pm
Agreed.  We don't need to press nearly as much.  Trae Young is a real good player and I think will be a star.  I'd much rather see us play half court man to man or zone but as long as we are shooting well and Gafford is controlling the boards we will win a lot of games.

we pressed him in the first half.. slowed him down in the 2nd half 

Youngsta71701

November 23, 2017, 10:06:30 pm #27 Last Edit: November 29, 2017, 09:43:13 am by Youngsta71701
Quote from: jpsand on November 23, 2017, 07:28:12 pm
I think that when you've got a great penetrating guard the press only gives up easy baskets.  When they stopped pressing in the sound half it slowed Oklahoma scoring.  I worry a little too about giving up 80 points.  You won't  always shoot like we did tonight.  Even thou Walton is an idiot he said it several times "Arkansas has out played them but they're  only 3 points down".  I think that was from us hitting great shots then pressing and giving up easy lay ins.  May be worried about nothing but I'd still like to see more defense and drop the press if it's not working.
I agree. When you got a guard that can handle the ball and break down the press like Trey Young, a more traditional half court defense might be best. When we got them in a half court game they had a hard time scoring.
"The more things change the more they stay the same"

hawginbigd1

I know why we press, i just think we need to be better at it, and there are going to be teams it is not effective against. The OP is correct if the basket didnt seem like it was as big as the ocean in the first half, all the easy baskets given up would have resulted in a possible blowout

Cinco de Hogo

Quote from: ShadowHawg on November 23, 2017, 07:39:49 pm
Will threads like this ever go away? What we do works.

Time for some folks to start trying to figure out why it works instead of constantly questioning it.

Same thing as football, give fans an offense that works and it's easily explainable why it works and all they can talk about is why we can't out Bama Bama with three yards and a cloud of dust. Then to top it if they clamber for a defense that can out Bama Bama.  Arkansas basketball has an identity again for the first time in 17 years, it's bringing in the players and we are winning.  We may or may not win a NC but it dang good watching again!

Paul

Quote from: wedge56 on November 23, 2017, 08:27:02 pm
We beat a good team. As long as we score more than the other team not that concerned about how many they score. We play fast. Of course we will give up some easy baskets. Enjoy the win and get used to it. There are many more to come.
that's why we should hire Norvell!

Hogs49ers

November 23, 2017, 11:02:20 pm #31 Last Edit: November 29, 2017, 12:40:19 am by Hogs49ers
Quote from: hawginbigd1 on November 23, 2017, 10:26:45 pm
I know why we press, i just think we need to be better at it, and there are going to be teams it is not effective against. The OP is correct if the basket didnt seem like it was as big as the ocean in the first half, all the easy baskets given up would have resulted in a possible blowout

OU was 2/12 from the 3 pt line in the 2nd half, do you know why?  Bc we got to their legs.  Yes we gave up some easy baskets and yes we will continue to give up some easy baskets in every game.  Yes, we can get better, but every single team in the country can get better at their style of defense, but right now, our style is winning and our defensive play is much better than you think and here is why:

- We held OU to their lowest total on the year (25 pts lower than their season average)
- We held Bucknell to their lowest total on the year (that is through 6 games and they played against teams like UNC and Maryland)
- We held Samford to their lowest total on the year (that is through 5 games)
- We played our worst game against Fresno, but still held them under their season average

So keep complaining about how we give up those easy buckets and keep trying as hard as possible to not understand our defensive strategy from a deeper perspective than the thought process of "well we seem to give up a lot of easy baskets therefore our defense must not be good". (BTW - I just responded to your post, not necessarily directing it towards you though)
SCREW Vandy!

Hogs49ers

Under Mike Anderson, the Hogs are now 98-7 all time in games we led at halftime (93.3% winning percentage), including 14-5 away from Fayetteville.  Now that wouldn't happen to be because of our press and wearing people down would it???
SCREW Vandy!

hawgbawb

OU did get a lot of easy baskets after breaking the press. We seemed to do better once we abandoned it. I think it's one of those things that you try intermittently to keep them off Bala ce . If it works, keep doing it.
I post, therefor I am.
John Highsmith Adams rocks.

Hogs49ers

Quote from: Hogs49ers on November 23, 2017, 11:02:20 pm
OU was 2/12 from the 3 pt line in the 2nd half, do you know why?  Bc we got to their legs.  Yes we gave up some easy baskets and yes we will continue to give up some easy baskets in every game.  Yes, we can get better, but every single team in the country can get better at their style of defense, but right now, our style is winning and our defensive play is much better than you think and here is why:

- We held OU to their lowest total on the year (25 pts lower than their season average)
- We held Bucknell to their lowest total on the year (that is through 6 games and they played against teams like UNC and Maryland)
- We held Samford to their lowest total on the year (that is through 5 games)
- We played our worst game against Fresno, but still held them under their season average

So keep complaining about how we give up those easy buckets and keep trying as hard as possible to not understand our defensive strategy from a deeper perspective than the thought process of "well we seem to give up a lot of easy baskets therefore our defense must not be good". (BTW - I just responded to your post, not necessarily directing it towards you though)

I guess after I threw some actual facts and data out, this thread just shut down haha...
SCREW Vandy!

ChicoHog

You did a nice job breaking it down.  hard to argue with you!  For me it's a personal thing also.  I have never enjoyed watching basketball with teams that press all the time.  It leads to a more sloppy game with more turnovers, bad shots, more fouls usually, etc.,  I love basketball when both teams have less than 10 turnovers and both teams are not in the one and one until late in the each half.  And they shoot the ball well! 

Regardless I think the Hogs have a pretty good team and as long as Anderson is the coach (I hated the hire) I know they will press and give up easy baskets.  But as long as they win, which usually comes down to if they shoot well, everything will be fine and we should have a good year. 

Hogs49ers

Quote from: ChicoHog on November 29, 2017, 01:08:16 am
You did a nice job breaking it down.  hard to argue with you!  For me it's a personal thing also.  I have never enjoyed watching basketball with teams that press all the time.  It leads to a more sloppy game with more turnovers, bad shots, more fouls usually, etc.,  I love basketball when both teams have less than 10 turnovers and both teams are not in the one and one until late in the each half.  And they shoot the ball well! 

Regardless I think the Hogs have a pretty good team and as long as Anderson is the coach (I hated the hire) I know they will press and give up easy baskets.  But as long as they win, which usually comes down to if they shoot well, everything will be fine and we should have a good year.

I can respect that, I can respect someone that prefers another style of play over the style of play we have for the reasons you mentioned.  It is not for everyone, but for me, I really enjoy the highscoring, fast pace games that our style of play produces.  To each their own...
SCREW Vandy!

Sow Lancelot

Quote from: Nosboar Accubond on November 23, 2017, 08:25:57 pm
OU shot lights out and lost by 10, the CMA presses for fatigue more than turnovers. Make them get sloppy the last 10 minutes of the game, which they did.
Ditto, ditto, ditto...
"Nec vitia nostra nec remedium tolerare possumus." Livy
Nihil boni sine labore, sic vis pacem, para bellum.

Corkscrew Johnson

Trae Young disappeared in the 2nd half.  It's because he looked like he had played a whole game by halftime.

AlmaHog2011

Quote from: Corkscrew Johnson on November 29, 2017, 05:59:29 am
Trae Young disappeared in the 2nd half.  It's because he looked like he had played a whole game by halftime.

He also rained some Al Dillard deep 3s. He took some bad shots and made them until about the middle of the second half. If we played again he wouldn't make a lot of those shots.

I love the style Mike plays. I hope we hire a Football Coach the caliber of Mike Anderson. Attack and be aggressive!!

rwspear

Quote from: ChicoHog on November 29, 2017, 01:08:16 am
You did a nice job breaking it down.  hard to argue with you!  For me it's a personal thing also.  I have never enjoyed watching basketball with teams that press all the time.  It leads to a more sloppy game with more turnovers, bad shots, more fouls usually, etc.,  I love basketball when both teams have less than 10 turnovers and both teams are not in the one and one until late in the each half.  And they shoot the ball well! 

Regardless I think the Hogs have a pretty good team and as long as Anderson is the coach (I hated the hire) I know they will press and give up easy baskets.  But as long as they win, which usually comes down to if they shoot well, everything will be fine and we should have a good year.

find a new team then. this is our style and we dont play princeton ball, and never will. princeton ball ideas have no place here.

this thread is full of people that scored 7 points in a YMCA game as 3rd grader so they think they understand basketball.

you dont run on 1st down in the 1st quarter to open up the run game in the 1st quarter. you run on 1st down in the 1st quarter to open up the pass game in the 4th quarter.

its called META GAME. this thread should be trashed.

phadedhawg

press them when they get off the bus and til they get back on it baby!

BRHogfan

Quote from: AlmaHog2011 on November 29, 2017, 06:45:12 am
He also rained some Al Dillard deep 3s. He took some bad shots and made them until about the middle of the second half. If we played again he wouldn't make a lot of those shots.

I love the style Mike plays. I hope we hire a Football Coach the caliber of Mike Anderson. Attack and be aggressive!!

Well he didn't score in like the first 13 minutes of the 2nd half. 

BRHogfan

OU averages 15 turnovers a game and they had 19 against us.  If you let a team shoot at or below their normal fg% 51.1% for OU, but you force them into an extra 4 turnovers, then you're taking away 2 made buckets for them and giving 2 made buckets for us.  That' an 8-12 point swing. 

mhuff

Quote from: checkraiser88 on November 23, 2017, 09:45:03 pm
We press to push the tempo in the game, we forced 19 turnovers in the process by rushing them

Addendum.  All the above plus taking the other team out of their game plan. We could be an elite team if we ran a press correctly. You run a press as long as it works until the other team calls timeout. Then you switch to a half court trap until the other team calls timeout. Then you switch to a zone. But for the thousandth time. You can't press with our players five feet back. Then the opposition passes over the press and with the numbers in their favor take it to the basket and beat our brains out. Why would you continuously do what helps the other team best you. It drives me crazy.

ChicoHog

Quote from: rwspear on November 29, 2017, 12:37:27 pm
find a new team then. this is our style and we dont play princeton ball, and never will. princeton ball ideas have no place here.

this thread is full of people that scored 7 points in a YMCA game as 3rd grader so they think they understand basketball.

you dont run on 1st down in the 1st quarter to open up the run game in the 1st quarter. you run on 1st down in the 1st quarter to open up the pass game in the 4th quarter.

its called META GAME. this thread should be trashed.

I didn't say I liked slow basketball. I said I don't like full court press and I don't like watching sloppy games with a lot of turnovers.  I like the way UNC and Kansas plays.  they depend on rebounding and half court man to man without fouling a lot.  And I love teams that can shoot, which I think we are this year and were last year.  To each his own.   And I did play HS ball as a decent level and probably could have played JC or small college ball but knew I wasn't good enough to make it worth my while. So take your 3rd grade YMCA ball and go polish your life size Mike Anderson statue.   

HogHomer

Quote from: mhuff on November 29, 2017, 03:29:39 pm
Addendum.  All the above plus taking the other team out of their game plan. We could be an elite team if we ran a press correctly. You run a press as long as it works until the other team calls timeout. Then you switch to a half court trap until the other team calls timeout. Then you switch to a zone. But for the thousandth time. You can't press with our players five feet back. Then the opposition passes over the press and with the numbers in their favor take it to the basket and beat our brains out. Why would you continuously do what helps the other team best you. It drives me crazy.
Our game plan is to speed up the opposition by using the press. How many times do our opponents have to run full speed down the court while on offense? And then they have to run back after a make or a miss because of our speed of play. It's tires them out and it's obviously visible during our games. They run themselves out of gas.

If our defense is the problem why have we held every opponent we beat below their average while also increasing the amount of possession than the average game. If our defense struggles then explain how more possessions result in less points for our opponents.

rwspear

Quote from: ChicoHog on November 29, 2017, 03:32:57 pm
I didn't say I liked slow basketball. I said I don't like full court press and I don't like watching sloppy games with a lot of turnovers.  I like the way UNC and Kansas plays.  they depend on rebounding and half court man to man without fouling a lot.  And I love teams that can shoot, which I think we are this year and were last year.  To each his own.   And I did play HS ball as a decent level and probably could have played JC or small college ball but knew I wasn't good enough to make it worth my while. So take your 3rd grade YMCA ball and go polish your life size Mike Anderson statue.

go watch unc or kansas then? were not them and never will be.