I am not trying to be an alarmist, but . . .

[WilsonHog]

Clearly you are spoiling for a fight. Being familiar with the way this board is managed insulting an Administrator will probably get you banned by the guy who owns this board and pays for it so the rest of us can post here free of charge.

This is not a typical message board. When Lanny first got it off the ground he explained to me that he wanted a place for Razorback fans to offer their opinions minus the piss fight mentality often found on other boards.

From time to time a certain amount of slack is allowed when he feels people should be allowed to vent. The reason we're seeing moderators and administrators more actively involved in this forum right now is that the venting has been allowed over Kapita's eligibility issues an the three arrests. Now it's time for a return to civil discussion.

You raise an outstanding point that many of our posters may not realize. When Hogville was created, most of the original crew came from a board where piss fights, personal attacks, and beatdowns were not only allowed, but encouraged. It was part of the culture. The analogy I always used was that of a bar room; you were welcome to go in for a drink, but you were subject to have a chair broken over your back before the night was over.

That was exactly what Lanny didn't want, and those who came over as admins were in complete agreement.

So, when particular Hogville forums go down that road - for whatever reason - it gets everyone's attention.

The admins and mods knew last week that with the arrests of the three players and the Kapita situation, traffic here was going to pick up. We also knew that discussion had to be allowed - but that does not mean the rules have changed.

Your characterization of "spoiling for a fight" is dead on. Maybe posters should think of it this way, thinking back to the bar analogy; the minute a poster decides to stand up, raise their voice, and challenge another poster is when they are going to be asked to leave. How "passionate" you are or how "right" you think you are matters not.   

[westside_player]

Tom,
  That may be the case but that should not be the case.   Averaging about 19 wins(figuring in a down year this next season) and not making the Tournament is not enough to keep the job of Head Basketball Coach at the University of Arkansas based on merit. Arkansas is apparently the parent that keeps giving their kids' friend a second or third chance at a job even though they should be fired.  Shhhh, don't say it too loud, Affirmative Action.  (or Nostalgia Action or Sentimental Favorite Action)

Who's to say averaging 19 wins per year isn't good enough? I think it will boil down to revenue.  When enough people aren't supporting the program and enough interest and revenue isn't being generated, there will be a change. But averaging 19 wins per season, depending on how it's done, may keep anyone around a while anymore.

I'm not a big Anderson fan, and probably never will be. As far as I'm concerned, the style that won all those games in the 90's is 20 years outdated and the players who were brought in were mostly brought in by a recruiter named Scott Edgar who's been fired for cheating, recruiting violations, and/or lying to the NCAA every where else he's been.  If he's made a career of that since, he was probably doing it here to bring in those good players in the first place.

There will be a point where people start to realize this isn't the program of the early 90's and never will be again. Just because the 90's built a gym twice the size it needed to be and bigger than everyone else's, doesn't give fans some birth right to win 30 games a year.  Arkansas is a difficult place to recruit to. There's very little talent around Fayetteville. Arkansas is not a basketball school. It's nothing more than any other program in the SEC West.

[WilsonHog]

Who's to say averaging 19 wins per year isn't good enough? I think it will boil down to revenue.  When enough people aren't supporting the program and enough interest and revenue isn't being generated, there will be a change. But averaging 19 wins per season, depending on how it's done, may keep anyone around a while anymore.

I'm not a big Anderson fan, and probably never will be. As far as I'm concerned, the style that won all those games in the 90's is 20 years outdated and the players who were brought in were mostly brought in by a recruiter named Scott Edgar who's been fired for cheating, recruiting violations, and/or lying to the NCAA every where else he's been.  If he's made a career of that since, he was probably doing it here to bring in those good players in the first place.

There will be a point where people start to realize this isn't the program of the early 90's and never will be again. Just because the 90's built a gym twice the size it needed to be and bigger than everyone else's, doesn't give fans some birth right to win 30 games a year.  Arkansas is a difficult place to recruit to. There's very little talent around Fayetteville. Arkansas is not a basketball school. It's nothing more than any other program in the SEC West.

I think you make a good point. We may indeed rise to the 25 year-level of Eddie Sutton and Nolan Richardson, but we also may never see that level of success again. There is no guarantee, no "birthright" (I was foolish enough to believe differently at one time).

We're 15-20 years removed from having sustained success in basketball. Stan Heath and his fundamental, Big Ten basketball couldn't get us there. John Pelphrey's blue-blood pedigree couldn't get us there. It remains to be seen if Mike can. He's taken steps in that direction so far. Maybe he can't; maybe, as you say, his style is outdated.

SEC basketball isn't SEC football; that's about like comparing ACC basketball with ACC football. If we're objective about it, what do we have to offer? An aging, 20,000 seat arena that we fill for big games, if we're winning. Membership in a conference that, while up and coming, has been lousy for quite some time. The top five coaches in the game aren't leaving where they are to come here; if they were, they already would have. No, if Mike fails, what we are likely back to is seeing if we can hit the "up and comer" lottery.

[hoglady]

I think you make a good point. We may indeed rise to the 25 year-level of Eddie Sutton and Nolan Richardson, but we also may never see that level of success again. There is no guarantee, no "birthright" (I was foolish enough to believe differently at one time).

We're 15-20 years removed from having sustained success in basketball. Stan Heath and his fundamental, Big Ten basketball couldn't get us there. John Pelphrey's blue-blood pedigree couldn't get us there. It remains to be seen if Mike can. He's taken steps in that direction so far. Maybe he can't; maybe, as you say, his style is outdated.

SEC basketball isn't SEC football; that's about like comparing ACC basketball with ACC football. If we're objective about it, what do we have to offer? An aging, 20,000 seat arena that we fill for big games, if we're winning. Membership in a conference that, while up and coming, has been lousy for quite some time. The top five coaches in the game aren't leaving where they are to come here; if they were, they already would have. No, if Mike fails, what we are likely back to is seeing if we can hit the "up and comer" lottery.

Man - the truth hurts doesn't it?
It's hard to accept where we are.
Especially to those of us who watched Eddie build this program from pretty much nothing and Nolan take us to new heights. That was great time to be a Razorback basketball fan. We've tumbled further for a longer period of time than I ever thought possible.

[hellwonthaveme]

Man - the truth hurts doesn't it?
It's hard to accept where we are.
Especially to those of us who watched Eddie build this program from pretty much nothing and Nolan take us to new heights. That was great time to be a Razorback basketball fan. We've tumbled further for a longer period of time than I ever thought possible.

He won 27 games. 27 games and people are actually discussing his demise.

Wow

PRJ

[RazorPiggie]

He won 27 games. 27 games and people are actually discussing his demise.

Wow

PRJ

We played 3 ranked teams all season. Was a good year but I'm not happy with 1 NCAA tourney appearance in 4 probably 5 years.

[WilsonHog]

We played 3 ranked teams all season. Was a good year but I'm not happy with 1 NCAA tourney appearance in 4 probably 5 years.

So this is what you're really saying...

"Based on what Mike Anderson did in his first three years, there is nothing he could have done in year four to make me happy."

[Hawg Red]

He won 27 games. 27 games and people are actually discussing his demise.

Wow

PRJ

Just a thought, but I think the discussion of his potential demise is a result of everything that's happened since he won 27 games. Things are not pointing in the direction of sustainability. When do you see us winning 27 games again? The next time we somehow end up with the conference Player of the Year?

Since the season has ended, we lost 3 players and only brought in 1 grad transfer and a transfer that may never suit up for the Hogs. The staff was unable to sell any recruits on replacing the SEC Player of the Year and another All-SEC player after a 27-win season. Couldn't get one player of note to, prep or JUCO, to take that opportunity. Then we find out there's a good chance Ted Kapita won't be able to enroll. Then 3 returning players get arrested for some potentially serious infractions. Obviously all of this stuff isn't Mike's fault, but in combination, they could all lead to the potential demise some posters are talking about. And it's valid. We're now in a position where a staff that couldn't replace it's two best players (i.e. big opportunity) after a 27-win season has to potentially fill 9 (!) scholarships for the 2016 class. Any real success we've had under Anderson was centered around Bobby Portis, and he's gone now. And things are looking like a mess. For that to happen after a 27-win season is concerning.

I honestly don't think there are many posters that truly want Anderson fired, but I do think there are a lot of posters that want to see Mike do better (taking EVERYTHING into account, not just clinging to one season's worth of success) and expected him to do better when he was hired. A lot of the concerns that were there when he was hired haven't really gone away. Everyone here wants the same thing. We all want the Hogs to be successful and stay successful. It was great to have the season we just had, but it was even obvious inside of the season that there might be some sustainability issues. Those concerns have obviously been greatly extrapolated now. We won 27 games, so what's the follow-up to that? 12-17 wins? Is it really outlandish to question that prospect?

[RazorPiggie]

So this is what you're really saying...

"Based on what Mike Anderson did in his first three years, there is nothing he could have done in year four to make me happy."

I want consistency, not high one year and low the next and then average the year after that.

[WilsonHog]

I want consistency, not high one year and low the next and then average the year after that.

When have we been high one year and low the next?

[hellwonthaveme]

We played 3 ranked teams all season. Was a good year but I'm not happy with 1 NCAA tourney appearance in 4 probably 5 years.

He

When have we been high one year and low the next?

Miss Cleo's....the lows will start this year.....

PRJ

[jesterzzn]

Stan Heath and his fundamental, Big Ten basketball couldn't get us there.

Heath was fired off of back to back tourney appearances and with his most talented most experienced team returning.

Heath achieved sustained success, he just never won big.  Heath was fired because Frank blew his Gillispie prematurely, not because he wasn't "getting it done" or a lack of sustained success.

If Heath beats Butler I would almost bet you he may still be our coach today.  He certainly would have coached us at least 4-5 more years.

[WilsonHog]

Heath was fired off of back to back tourney appearances and with his most talented most experienced team returning.

Heath achieved sustained success, he just never won big.  Heath was fired because Frank blew his Gillispie prematurely, not because he wasn't "getting it done" or a lack of sustained success.

If Heath beats Butler I would almost bet you he may still be our coach today.  He certainly would have coached us at least 4-5 more years.

Based on his resume after he left us, I'm not sure he would have ever "won big."

Heath seemed to be a really nice man.

[hoglady]

He won 27 games. 27 games and people are actually discussing his demise.

Wow

PRJ

That post was regarding the basketball program as a whole since Nolan left, not Anderson.
We are not considered an elite program anymore and haven't been for 2 decades.
Last season was great - at one time that was the NORM not the EXCEPTION.
I'm not bashing MA at all - we let the program slip so far with Heath and Pelphrey not sure anyone can bring us back to where we were.
Hopefully MA can do that.

[jesterzzn]

Based on his resume after he left us, I'm not sure he would have ever "won big."

Heath seemed to be a really nice man.

He wasn't terrible at South Florida.  Tougher Conference at a school with fewer resources and not even the same neighborhood in history/prestige.

I'm not sure if he would have won big here or not, but he would have won.  I just don't like how he gets lumped in with Pelphrey.  Both nice guys, but Pelphrey failed to get it done.  Stan built a winner that wasn't winning enough.  Big difference to me.

[hellwonthaveme]

He wasn't terrible at South Florida.  Tougher Conference at a school with fewer resources and not even the same neighborhood in history/prestige.

I'm not sure if he would have won big here or not, but he would have won.  I just don't like how he gets lumped in with Pelphrey.  Both nice guys, but Pelphrey failed to get it done.  Stan built a winner that wasn't winning enough.  Big difference to me.

Stan got franked. And I mean Franked literally.

Stan should never be compared to little Opie and Aunt Bee...but Stan did have some problems within the locker room that was going to lead to problems for him if he had been retained....Altman was shocked....and that was in one day...

PRJ

[hellwonthaveme]

To be honest, i think this tops the dumbest comment award:

"Jeff Long ain't going to fire the third one unless the basketball program comes totally off the rails."

Race has nothing to do with anything. My view is most likely next season will be a free pass but that is the end of free passes. After next season, got to make the ncaa pretty much every year.

You haven't been paying attention to the news lately have you if you believe race has nothing to do with anything....

Except you are right in Mikes case that race plays no part in it.  Mike is going nowhere..anytime soon.

PRJ

[TexArkHogFan]

That post was regarding the basketball program as a whole since Nolan left, not Anderson.
We are not considered an elite program anymore and haven't been for 2 decades.
Last season was great - at one time that was the NORM not the EXCEPTION.
I'm not bashing MA at all - we let the program slip so far with Heath and Pelphrey not sure anyone can bring us back to where we were.
Hopefully MA can do that.

We won 27 games last season because of two players, Portis and Qualls.  If not for them, most likely would not have made the NCAA tourney.  Good teams lose good players all the time.  They don't rebuild, they reload.  I am afraid we will be rebuilding and we don't have enough pieces to build a foundation.  Whitt has the potential to be an impact player.  Unless others step up, he will be surrounded by role players and role players don't win championships.  Qualls didn't become an impact player until his third year and he left after that.  Portis had it from the git go.  That's why he was a high draft pick.  We need more players like Portis, but unfortunately they don't come along very often.  At least not to Arkansas.  Our system has been to draft good players and develop them into impact players but it takes time.

[jesterzzn]

Last season was great - at one time that was the NORM not the EXCEPTION.

I'm not really trying to single you out here, hoglady, its just your phrasing made something click in my mind.

Watching the past 15 years of Arkansas basketball has given me some better and better insight into the culture of Arkansas football that eventually gave us the conditions that led to the coach with the highest winning percentage in school history leaving his alma mater for Clemson.

Today in football we are happy, DAMN happy with a poor conference finish and a bowl win over a crappy team from a mid major conference (snark).  That used to get coaches fired, ya know?

But our last major sustained streak of football greatness was 30-40 years ago.  I was barely alive, and certainly don't remember it all that well.  But I sure as **** remember Arkansas basketball being the best program in the nation for about a five year period.  Five years I happened to be in High School. 

And now my generation is out having kids, making money, and spending it on sports.  Just like the generation that was in Highschool in the 60's was having kids and making money in the late 70's and 80's.  Kids like me.

But the point I am making is that I think it's interesting how we EXPECT greatness in basketball because it used to be the NORM just as we ran off two great coaches in the 80's because they didn't win at a level the people buying the tickets at the time thought they should expect.

We went through a low point already.  I really hope we don't run off a good coach just because of a nostalgia fueled memory that has given birth to some arrogant mentality of what we deserve.

If we run off Mike Anderson we may get to learn -- Yet Again -- deserves got nothing to do with it.

[Atlhogfan1]

Hatfield is a great man, represented our university well and had some success.  Lets not overstate his greatness.  He left because of Frank.  He left our program setup to struggle because of his feud with Frank.  He left behind our least talented teams compared to our competition for 30-40 years just a couple of seasons before we took a huge step up in competition.  Fans weren't unhappy with Hatfield's winning.  They were unhappy with the losses in the big games like Miami 51-7, the Tony Jones' catch, losing to unranked Texas twice at home in Fay with top 10 ranked Hog teams and understood the SWC was a shell of what it had been plus the bowl performances. 

[Mike Irwin]

His lackluster recruiting created the limited roster. Let's cut to the chase, the reality is the powers that be will have no negative PR rants about the state of the program. Now that doesn't mean anybody job is safe, far from it. It just means, until the time for change is needed, everything will be happy face. It doesn't take much too figure out if a change will be made. Having a minimum standard of making the ncaa tourney is a start. IF the hogs don't make the tourney in 2015 and 2016, there will be a new coach.

And you know this how? Common sense? Well, unless you have a pipeline to Jeff Long you don't know.

It took a lot of arm twisting to get Long to fire Pelphrey and Pelphrey had an APR problem that Long didn't like. Anderson cleaned up that problem. He has a great relationship with Long. You people making predictions about what's going to get Anderson fired are floating theories based on no real information.

[WilsonHog]

It took a lot of arm twisting to get Long to fire Pelphrey

That needs to be read and re-read by some folks. Let that sink in.

[hellwonthaveme]

That needs to be read and re-read by some folks. Let that sink in.

They won't let anything sink in. People...smart people on this board created a fenzy with Houston a long time ago. Now....everybody with a working finger and one thumb thinks they can join the next revolt....right from the comfort of their own home.

They pay little attention to the people such as yourself, Mike, Wilson or Lanny who know how the game works and is played.

Do they really think that some of the same men who had Mike hired one year before he was actually hired are just going to up and fire a guy who has rebuilt the program from the ashes?

PRJ

[Atlhogfan1]

I was under the impression Long's reluctance in firing Pelphrey was a commitment that had been made to give him a chance to coach the recruiting class he left behind as well as the situation he inherited from Heath behind the scenes and with the unbalanced scholarship situation. 


Is our basketball program rebuilt?  Off the court maybe. 

[hellwonthaveme]

I was under the impression Long's reluctance in firing Pelphrey was a commitment that had been made to give him a chance to coach the recruiting class he left behind as well as the situation he inherited from Heath behind the scenes and with the unbalanced scholarship situation. 


Is our basketball program rebuilt?  Off the court maybe. 

That's where it starts....off the court.

It's what we were told with Bret....we must first become honorable men to become successful...I giggled when I heard it. I am not giggling at Bret anymore.

If it is good enough for Bret...it's good enough for Mike.

PRJ

[hellwonthaveme]

I was under the impression Long's reluctance in firing Pelphrey was a commitment that had been made to give him a chance to coach the recruiting class he left behind as well as the situation he inherited from Heath behind the scenes and with the unbalanced scholarship situation. 


Is our basketball program rebuilt?  Off the court maybe. 

And Jeff won out that year with Pelphrey getting one more year...after Mike had already been reached out too...by certain people.

PRJ

[Atlhogfan1]

That's where it starts....off the court.

It's what we were told with Bret....we must first become honorable men to become successful...I giggled when I heard it. I am not giggling at Bret anymore.

If it is good enough for Bret...it's good enough for Mike.

PRJ

With off the court seemingly under control mostly, it takes us to the other thread and the crossroads and the importance of this current recruiting class and the next couple.  Lots of opportunities in state and in the region.  The staff used its connections well in getting Whitt.  Timing often plays a big role in coaches' successes.  Mike had it at Mizzou with Carroll's transfer in and later on with friends' relatives like the Presseys and Bowers.  The state may be offering up help especially if it can be complimented with more players like Whitt.  Mike has his opportunity to mold the roster into his kind of team finally. 

[HotlantaHog]

Clearly you are spoiling for a fight. Being familiar with the way this board is managed insulting an Administrator will probably get you banned by the guy who owns this board and pays for it so the rest of us can post here free of charge.

This is not a typical message board. When Lanny first got it off the ground he explained to me that he wanted a place for Razorback fans to offer their opinions minus the piss fight mentality often found on other boards.

From time to time a certain amount of slack is allowed when he feels people should be allowed to vent. The reason we're seeing moderators and administrators more actively involved in this forum right now is that the venting has been allowed over Kapita's eligibility issues an the three arrests. Now it's time for a return to civil discussion.

Thank you, I for one appreciate civil discussion among Hog fans who are informed. I am not a homer. I like to read data-driven, or fact-driven opinions from people who are MA fans and those who are not. I am open to having my opinion change over time. I hate it when it deteriorates to just rants. Which is why I usually try to avoid Hogville after a football loss or a basketball loss.

[Porked Tongue]

I again mention that it would be very shortsighted to assume all the players in question will be out for the duration of this season.

[MikePiazza]

I again mention that it would be very shortsighted to assume all the players in question will be out for the duration of this season.

We know Dustin Thomas will be, simply because he has to.

I would venture to guess Beard misses the non-conference portion (kind of like Fortson in '09-10) and Williams misses the first six games.

[Kevin]

I guess the bottom line is. 

The situation right now is not great. Anderson is the coach and I hope he can bring us out of it

Because I don't want it to get as bad as it has to, to have him removed.

[Nipsey Mussle]

So this is what you're really saying...

"Based on what Mike Anderson did in his first three years, there is nothing he could have done in year four to make me happy."

That's damn good...  Not that he's capable of acknowledging it, but very nicely done.