Stop Blaming Last Game on The Refs

[TexasRazorback]

Yes we lost it sucks, Yes the fouls called were 26-11, Yes they shot 34 free throws to our 12, but in the end, we lost. the refs did not lose us this game. They didnt help any, but in the end, we should have put Miss State away with better half court defense and finishing the game like we did vs Tenn and not let them hang around. This is a good team and this loss was needed to keep everyone hungry and show the team that to win in this conference on the road we will need to bring everything we have.

[Sow Lancelot]

Yes we lost it sucks, Yes the fouls called were 26-11, Yes they shot 34 free throws to our 12, but in the end, we lost. the refs did not lose us this game. They didnt help any, but in the end, we should have put Miss State away with better half court defense and finishing the game like we did vs Tenn and not let them hang around. This is a good team and this loss was needed to keep everyone hungry and show the team that to win in this conference on the road we will need to bring everything we have.

At least quote some accurate info. 40-12.

That being said, the refs sucked. Do the Hogs foul more? Yes, they do. 26 fouls to 11? Not really. The flow of a game is greatly influenced by fouls both called and ignored.

Acknowledging that the Hogs did a poor job 1) on the defensive glass, 2) on a stagnant offense, 3) on missing free throws is completely independent of the suckage of the officiating.

And if there is mass suckage, it is perfectly fine to call it out.

[JayHog]

40-12 in free throws.  That's a HUGE difference.

[TexasRazorback]

At least quote some accurate info. 40-12.

That being said, the refs sucked. Do the Hogs foul more? Yes, they do. 26 fouls to 11? Not really. The flow of a game is greatly influenced by fouls both called and ignored.

Acknowledging that the Hogs did a poor job 1) on the defensive glass, 2) on a stagnant offense, 3) on missing free throws is completely independent of the suckage of the officiating.

And if there is mass suckage, it is perfectly fine to call it out.

You're right 40 free throws, but we still cant blame this on the refs. As you pointed out we played flat on d, did not hit the boards, and went 5-12 on free throws.

[mizzouman]

Refs rarely decide the outcome of a game.  Foul disparity along with FT shows which team was more aggressive.  Do refs make mistakes?  Yes, every game.  But to say that there's a conspiracy for or against teams is crazy

[niels_boar]

Refs rarely decide the outcome of a game.  Foul disparity along with FT shows which team was more aggressive.  Do refs make mistakes?  Yes, every game.  But to say that there's a conspiracy for or against teams is crazy

That's a load of crap.  The home-away difference in all sports has been statistically shown to be mainly about officiating. 

[hoglady]

Refs rarely decide the outcome of a game.  Foul disparity along with FT shows which team was more aggressive.  Do refs make mistakes?  Yes, every game.  But to say that there's a conspiracy for or against teams is crazy

It's not really a conspiracy against us.
It's that SEC officials are bad and at times really bad.
The home team bias by SEC officials is shown pretty regularly throughout the season.

[Cinco de Hogo]

I got nothing for the ones who say refs don't influence the outcome of games.  You see it constantly on whatever level of play you choose to watch.  Unless one team is playing tackle football 40-12 is way beyond too much.  Every single one of those fouls called or not called influenced the outcome of the game.

If you don't know this about basketball you simply don't know what you are watching.  In fact with your head in the sand you can't see anyway.

[hoglady]

To me basketball is much better when the refs just let the guys play and may the toughest team win.
If you're watching a game and you've got to wonder whether that was really a foul - it probably shouldn't be called.

[ShadowHawg]

You can't play aggressive defense when the refs are calling any contact a foul. Miss St was able to play aggressive on the perimeter because they weren't calling hardly any fouls on them. That makes it harder to penetrate from the perimeter.

It's naive to say that refs don't influence games in a huge way.

That being said, if we take care of the ball and hit 3 more free throws we win this game. We were still in good position to win but didn't close. I also didn't understand why didn't foul Ado on that last rebound and put back. He was awful from the line. I also thought we should have gone for an easy two and made them shoot free throws instead of going for a 3.

It's still on us.

[Cinco de Hogo]

You can't play aggressive defense when the refs are calling any contact a foul. Miss St was able to play aggressive on the perimeter because they weren't calling hardly any fouls on them. That makes it harder to penetrate from the perimeter.

It's naive to say that refs don't influence games in a huge way.

That being said, if we take care of the ball and hit 3 more free throws we win this game. We were still in good position to win but didn't close. I also didn't understand why didn't foul Ado on that last rebound and put back. He was awful from the line. I also thought we should have gone for an easy two and made them shoot free throws instead of going for a 3.

It's still on us.

But yet by saying that you are saying we are the better team and should have won dispite 40-12.  So your really saying 40-12 influenced the game.

[ShadowHawg]

But yet by saying that you are saying we are the better team and should have won dispite 40-12.  So your really saying 40-12 influenced the game.

I absolutely believe it had a huge impact on the game.

But in the end, we are responsible for not making ft's and taking better care of the ball. Referees were awful. I don't see how anyone could dispute that.

But we still put ourselves in a good place to close this game out and didn't. I also think State was lucky on the last 3's they hit, a 23 footer and a fader. Not going to happen often that you get both of those.

In the end, it's on us for not taking care of the things we actually had the power over. We overcame a lot though to be in that position at all.

[hoglady]

Bottom line - we didn't play well enough to overcome the poor officiating.
And if we're going to win road games we need to figure out how to do that.

[Pigsfeat]

You're right 40 free throws, but we still cant blame this on the refs. As you pointed out we played flat on d, did not hit the boards, and went 5-12 on free throws.

You are totally wrong on this one. I was at the game and got to see it firsthand. The MSST players were grabbing jerseys, holding and shoving and the officials did nothing. There was a reason Macon and Barford were having trouble getting open. It effected our motion offense and our rebounding. I don't know how many times we had players in good positon to rebound and they got pushed under the basket or the MSST player simply went over their back.  Worst officiated game I have ever seen! The official that called the walk on Macon was the worse of the worst! I pointed him out to my buddies very early in the game. He was looking for ways to blow the whistle against the Hogs.
I officiated for years. I know it is not an easy job. I do however know that a bad official can effect the outcome of a game. Complaining can't change the outcome but it doesn't mean that it is not unwarranted sometimes.

[forrest city joe]

Bottom line - we didn't play well enough to overcome the poor officiating.
And if we're going to win road games we need to figure out how to do that.

Disagree with you.we can play as well as we want. if teams continue to shoot 40 FT to 12,Arkansas will keep losing no matter how well they play.this team is no where near good enough to overcome that. no one in the country is.

[KlubhouseKonnected]

Disagree with you.we can play as well as we want. if teams continue to shoot 40 FT to 12,Arkansas will keep losing no matter how well they play.this team is no where near good enough to overcome that. no one in the country is.

But we still could have won the game despite that so he does kind of have a point. The officials called that game very unevenly which disadvantaged
Arkansas quite a bit, but they were still in a position to win.

[hoglady]

Disagree with you.we can play as well as we want. if teams continue to shoot 40 FT to 12,Arkansas will keep losing no matter how well they play.this team is no where near good enough to overcome that. no one in the country is.

SEC officiating isn't changing anytime soon - to win on the road in the SEC most of the time the visiting team has to overcome bias and poor officiating.
Maybe not quite as poor as what we saw at Mississippi St. but still poor.
It's been this way for years and the SEC hasn't done anything to improve it.

[mykidsdad]

But we still could have won the game despite that so he does kind of have a point. The officials called that game very unevenly which disadvantaged
Arkansas quite a bit, but they were still in a position to win.

Until 2 incorrect calls on the offensive end (bogus push off on Barford and traveling Macon) made by the same ref I believe, took away opportunity so score and allowed the to get the lead.

[hogfanny]

If we got the officiating advantage other teams get, we would never lose a game. Pretty good accomplishment to only lose by 3 when 40 to 12 fouls called in opponents favor.

[TheRazorback500]

We've won a few games already in spite of poor officiating. Just didn't get this one. Go Hogs.

[PharmacistHog]

SEC officiating isn't changing anytime soon - to win on the road in the SEC most of the time the visiting team has to overcome bias and poor officiating.
Maybe not quite as poor as what we saw at Mississippi St. but still poor.
It's been this way for years and the SEC hasn't done anything to improve it.

If the officiating is cleaned up, do you think we start winning more on the road but lose our advantage at home?

[Hawg Red]

Disagree with you.we can play as well as we want. if teams continue to shoot 40 FT to 12,Arkansas will keep losing no matter how well they play.this team is no where near good enough to overcome that. no one in the country is.

So, what happens if the free throw disparity stays 40-12 in their favor but Arkansas goes 9/12 (75%; Hogs shot 76% last year) from the foul line instead of 5/12 (41.7%)?

Check my math on that one and see how it bumps up against what you're claiming.

[arslp]

I think the officiating was every bit as bad as the florida game that got curls suspended and i think an official complaint by mike is warranted

[hoglady]

If the officiating is cleaned up, do you think we start winning more on the road but lose our advantage at home?

It would certainly even things out some.
Too many fouls called in most basketball games.
When the refs don't let the game flow and it becomes a whistle fest - Arkansas normally doesn't play well. Hard to play a fast paced game when the whistle blows every minute.

[HogBreath]

If the officiating is cleaned up, do you think we start winning more on the road but lose our advantage at home?

It may just be me, but it seems the visitors sometimes/usually get the calls even at the Bud.

Something about the fast forty the refs do not care for.

[hogsanity]

It may just be me, but it seems the visitors sometimes/usually get the calls even at the Bud.

Something about the fast forty the refs do not care for.

Could be all the grabbing, slapping, hacking.

[hogsanity]

It would certainly even things out some.
Too many fouls called in most basketball games.
When the refs don't let the game flow and it becomes a whistle fest - Arkansas normally doesn't play well. Hard to play a fast paced game when the whistle blows every minute.

Lsu played at KY Wed night. Yes, Rupp Arena where supposedly the refs hold their Christmas parties and get envelopes full of cash. 3 pt game. Total fouls, KY 14 LSu 10.  You know why there were so few fouls called? The players were not constantly putting their hands on the opponents, were not getting beaten off the dribble and then grabbing the opponent, and were not tomahawk hacking trying to block every shot by driving back through the floor. There were only 22 ft's in that entire game. Ky went 7-13 and LSu went 7-9. 

[HogBreath]

Could be all the grabbing, slapping, hacking.

It could, no doubt about it.  But there have been games where the opponent was more aggressive with all of that than we were, and it wasn't reflected in the foul numbers.

It would be fun to watch with someone like yourself a game, like last year's SEC tourney game with Ole Miss, and see how our opinions might change.

[hogsanity]

It could, no doubt about it.  But there have been games where the opponent was more aggressive with all of that than we were, and it wasn't reflected in the foul numbers.

It would be fun to watch with someone like yourself a game, like last year's SEC tourney game with Ole Miss, and see how our opinions might change.

You mean the sect game where our fans swore the refs were out to make sure the Hogs lost? The one where the foul count was 15-14 and the Hogs shot 10 more ft's?

[revolution]

Lsu played at KY Wed night. Yes, Rupp Arena where supposedly the refs hold their Christmas parties and get envelopes full of cash. 3 pt game. Total fouls, KY 14 LSu 10.  You know why there were so few fouls called? The players were not constantly putting their hands on the opponents, were not getting beaten off the dribble and then grabbing the opponent, and were not tomahawk hacking trying to block every shot by driving back through the floor. There were only 22 ft's in that entire game. Ky went 7-13 and LSu went 7-9. 

You serious, Clark? 

Might want to check your info about where that game was played.

[hogsanity]

You serious, Clark? 

Might want to check your info about where that game was played.

oops, my bad on the location. Home team ( LSu ) got whistled for 4 more fouls than did the visitor. Both teams scored 7 from the FT line.

[Breems]

You serious, Clark? 

Might want to check your info about where that game was played.

Getting sloppy these days.

[Cinco de Hogo]

Could be all the grabbing, slapping, hacking.

Whats Wrong with grabbing, slapping, hacking if your not blowing the whistle on both teams?

We could set down and watch any game and by one minute in I could show you a grab, slap or hack on a Arkansas player that didn't get called.

[HogBreath]

You mean the sect game where our fans swore the refs were out to make sure the Hogs lost? The one where the foul count was 15-14 and the Hogs shot 10 more ft's?

As I recall, the rebs were hyper aggressive that game, I do recall the foul numbers being close, but of course, that does nothing to actually show how much more they fouled that nite, which is sorta/kinda the whole point.  I remember one drive by a Hog where he was fouled by three rebs with no call.

[azhog10]

I got nothing for the ones who say refs don't influence the outcome of games.  You see it constantly on whatever level of play you choose to watch.  Unless one team is playing tackle football 40-12 is way beyond too much.  Every single one of those fouls called or not called influenced the outcome of the game.

If you don't know this about basketball you simply don't know what you are watching.  In fact with your head in the sand you can't see anyway.

IT blows my mind people can say and believe that officiating in basketball doesn't impact a game. As a basketball coach I can tell you absolutely it does. In years past I have played a team twice in a week and one time we would win/lose by 30, next game it we would win/lose by 5. Nothing changed except the officials. Same players, same coaches, and a couple times same gym. The players didn't shoot better/worse, the strategies didn't change. The only thing that changed was the officials and what they called or didn't call.

That said, its part of the game you grow to love and hate. Officiating cost the Hogs the game against MSU. Sure you can sit back and say if we would have done this or that we could have won. IF MSU would have done this or that it would have been a blowout for them. Simple fact is the officiating without a doubt impacted the game and the impact helped MSU out.

[hogsanity]

As I recall, the rebs were hyper aggressive that game, I do recall the foul numbers being close, but of course, that does nothing to actually show how much more they fouled that nite, which is sorta/kinda the whole point.  I remember one drive by a Hog where he was fouled by three rebs with no call.

Wait, foul count is not indicative of how teams actually play? So lets see, foul count is a wide spread, Hogs are getting screwed. Hogs shoot more FT's, hog are getting screwed. Hogs shoot fewer ft's, Hogs are getting screwed. Foul count is even, yep, you guessed it, Hogs are getting screwed. Hogs get called for fewer fouls, Hogs fans may still say they got screwed, but if the fans of the opponent says they got screwed ( like TN fans did last week ) they are, to quote one poster here, " Whiney female dogs ".

[hogsanity]

IT blows my mind people can say and believe that officiating in basketball doesn't impact a game. As a basketball coach I can tell you absolutely it does. In years past I have played a team twice in a week and one time we would win/lose by 30, next game it we would win/lose by 5. Nothing changed except the officials. Same players, same coaches, and a couple times same gym. The players didn't shoot better/worse, the strategies didn't change. The only thing that changed was the officials and what they called or didn't call.

That said, its part of the game you grow to love and hate. Officiating cost the Hogs the game against MSU. Sure you can sit back and say if we would have done this or that we could have won. IF MSU would have done this or that it would have been a blowout for them. Simple fact is the officiating without a doubt impacted the game and the impact helped MSU out.

I've never said different crews do not call things a different way. There were fewer fouls in the KY at LSu game WED, TOTAL, than the Hogs were whistled for Tues night.

What I take umbrage with is the inference or outright claim of intentional bias or crookedness on the part of refs against the Hogs( or anyone else really ). There can most definitely be inconsistency from crew to crew and even within a crew, but that is just the human element of it. It is no different than if two guys work a HS double header in baseball and one guy is not giving anything off the plate in the 1st game but in the 2nd the other guy is giving those pitches.

I have used the example before about in basketball if one ref is more likely to let contact go than another, and the rotations work out to where they are lead on opposite ends alot, one team is likely going to have more fouls than the other. If you are a coach you know that can happen. But it is likely not because one crew or or one guy on a crew goes into the game wanting to call a bazzillion fouls on one team or the other.

[HogBreath]

Wait, foul count is not indicative of how teams actually play? So lets see, foul count is a wide spread, Hogs are getting screwed. Hogs shoot more FT's, hog are getting screwed. Hogs shoot fewer ft's, Hogs are getting screwed. Foul count is even, yep, you guessed it, Hogs are getting screwed. Hogs get called for fewer fouls, Hogs fans may still say they got screwed, but if the fans of the opponent says they got screwed ( like TN fans did last week ) they are, to quote one poster here, " Whiney female dogs ".

As usual..you can't see the forest for the trees.

[hogsanity]

As usual..you can't see the forest for the trees.

I see it just fine. Hogs lose, refs beat em. But if another team loses to the Hogs and says it was the refs, those fans are just whiney little ^%$#$^@. And tomorrow will be the same thing. If the Hogs lose, btw I think they win tomorrow, the usual crowd will be here blaming the refs.

[mizzouman]

Disagree with you.we can play as well as we want. if teams continue to shoot 40 FT to 12,Arkansas will keep losing no matter how well they play.this team is no where near good enough to overcome that. no one in the country is.

FCJ, stop crying about officiating.  I agree with Hoglady.  You will get calls for you and against that should not be called.  It's part of the game.  You have accept those calls you get and over come the calls you don't get.  ALL teams go through this. 

[HogBreath]

I see it just fine. Hogs lose, refs beat em. But if another team loses to the Hogs and says it was the refs, those fans are just whiney little ^%$#$^@. And tomorrow will be the same thing. If the Hogs lose, btw I think they win tomorrow, the usual crowd will be here blaming the refs.

Lol..there's another poster on here who claims to be a contrarian extraordinaire, but you make him look like a lightweight.

[HogBreath]

I see it just fine. Hogs lose, refs beat em. But if another team loses to the Hogs and says it was the refs, those fans are just whiney little ^%$#$^@. And tomorrow will be the same thing. If the Hogs lose, btw I think they win tomorrow, the usual crowd will be here blaming the refs.

What did you think about the refs in last year's tourney game with the 'heels?

[HogBreath]

FCJ, stop crying about officiating.  I agree with Hoglady.  You will get calls for you and against that should not be called.  It's part of the game.  You have accept those calls you get and over come the calls you don't get.  ALL teams go through this. 

Put a sock in it Mizzouman...the only reason your crappy team beat the bumbling Bilema's this past season was your wide out shoved Toliver out of the way for a game winner catch..the idiot ref stood there and watched the offensive PI with no call.

[mizzouman]

Put a sock in it Mizzouman...the only reason your crappy team beat the bumbling Bilema's this past season was your wide out shoved Toliver out of the way for a game winner catch..the idiot ref stood there and watched the offensive PI with no call.

That has nothing to do with this thread.  By the way, did you see all the bad calls against Mizzou that day that NO ONE here is talking about?  Clear block in the back on a TD run by Whaley in the 3rd quarter and a tackle by an Arkansas OL (obvious holding) on Williams TD run in the 2nd quarter.  Both over 20 yard runs.  Why aren't you complaining about that?  Of course not because Hog fans think officiating is only bad against them. 

[HogBreath]

That has nothing to do with this thread.  By the way, did you see all the bad calls against Mizzou that day that NO ONE here is talking about?  Clear block in the back on a TD run by Whaley in the 3rd quarter and a tackle by an Arkansas OL (obvious holding) on Williams TD run in the 2nd quarter.  Both over 20 yard runs.  Why aren't you complaining about that?  Of course not because Hog fans think officiating is only bad against them. 

Typical nonsense...just blather some innuendo and counter accusations.

[pigture perfect]

Ok, I won't blame the refs. I'll blame Mike for not getting into the refs ear enough. I'm not saying throw a tantrum or anything, but get to the point where they understand the Look.

[hogsanity]

What did you think about the refs in last year's tourney game with the 'heels?

I did not think they called a bad game or cost the Hogs the win. I think one ref made one very bad call late.

Look, I get it, fans cry about the refs when they lose. Kentucky fans cried and whined and posted personal info about a ref they thought ripped them off in the NCAAT. That is what fans do.

As I said what I take offense to is the assertion that the refs are crooked or corrupt. Refs make calls that one side or the other is going to deem being "bad' just because they do not like the call. And there is no doubt some officials are better than others.

[mizzouman]

Typical nonsense...just blather some innuendo and counter accusations.

Of course.

[Iwastherein1969]

Refs rarely decide the outcome of a game.  Foul disparity along with FT shows which team was more aggressive.  Do refs make mistakes?  Yes, every game.  But to say that there's a conspiracy for or against teams is crazy

Normally the more aggressive team on defense gets more fouls. Basic basketball 101. But apparently you didn't watch the MSU v UA game Tuesday night because MSU  ramped up their "D" from the opening tip picking up our guards two steps past mid-court and I mean getting up in their jersey. There is ABSOLUTELY NO DAM WAY a team such as MSU can play man to man against superior athletes without fouling out the kazoo. Apparently UT sent in some game film to the SEC office which was followed a memo which somehow found its way to the officiating crew Tuesday night at MSU and thus we took it up the hiney. I haven't seen anything as obvious as this since the 2009 football game at UF.

Now at AU we find ourselves 4 point underdogs and are staring at our typical 1-2 start in the SEC. I honestly thought this year would be different. Why ?  I don't know. Every athletic season for the 3 major sports strangely seems to follow the same pattern. Maybe it's who we are and that's just the way it's always going to be. I really don't have a clue as to why I expected this year might just be different.