Powerlifting question

[bennyl08]

So, I'm not a complete novice to weight lifting, but most of my working out has been very unorganized and inconsistent. Mostly dumbbells, benches (I was previously doing them wrong), and just body weight exercises.

I am now starting to get into powerlifting, though my endgame is not to be able to lift massive amounts of weight. Simply, they are great compound exercises that anybody should incorporate into their fitness regime regardless of their goals. The problem here is that in my loosey goosey workouts of yesteryear, I really neglected my back, core, and shoulders, and hamstrings. So, my squats and bench are both at higher weights than my dead lift. Admittedly, I am still very leery of my form on deadlifts as well as being keenly aware of my weakness, hence I am less inclined to push my limits on that exercise, even though it is also a compound lift.

I'm kind of doing the basic "starting strength" program. However, any personal preferences of programs out there? Any tips on how to build my back strength? I've been doing some dumbbell rows.

[Hogberry Snortcake]

Sounds like you're doing it right.  Take your time and do 'em correctly.  There's no hurry.  Don't worry what the meatheads think (from a meathead). 

[spe450]

The Wendler 5-3-1 system has worked wonders for me over the past few months.  I've hit personal bests in all of the lifts.  The first cycle may be a little frustrating but I have gotten to love it because it doesn't force you to go overboard with supplemental lifts.  You do your workout and a couple auxiliary lifts and hit cardio and you are done.

When doing squats, make sure you go parallel.  Do not cheat.  Full range of motion is key.  As far as strengthening your back, bent over or dumbell rows help.

Start light on dead lift and get the form down.  DO NOT WEAR RUNNING SHOES.  I prefer Converse All Stars or any other flat sole shoes.  The soft running shoes will hinder the lift and can ruin your form.

[Hogfly]

Starting Strength is a great starting program. Wendler's 5/3/1 is also excellent.

I'm very similar to you in that I don't want to be huge, but I do appreciate the efficiency and results of traditional lifts. I've had very good results in building lean strength with just a few short sessions a week in the gym (and a few kettlebell complexes at home).

As for deadlifts, I love them as they just make you look powerful once you start pulling some big weight (big for me being 300+ lbs). Like others said, use flat shoes (or go barefoot) for deadlifts. Decide if you're going to pull sumo or traditional. I started out pulling sumo and felt like I'd reached my peak with it. I've since gone back and retrained myself to pull traditional. I feel like I've peaked with it as well, so I may go back to pulling sumo.

Here's a video that I recently saw posted on Ballistic Fitness's FB page about deadlift. Both great videos:

JTS Deadlift 101 video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T05c89FlKGY

Here's one on troubleshooting sumo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioo4LKjwQfg

[clutch]

Nothing better than Wendler's 5/3/1 imo. You will see improvements in the big 3 if you do that program. Simple, yet very very effective.

[Hogsmo Kramer]

Add another vote for 531.

Another tip is to make the lift yours. Try different stances as far as foot width, hand width, etc.

Everyone's mechanics are slightly different so experiment and find what works for you. I also second doing it barefoot or in flat shoes.

Also some good assistance exercises are glute ham raises, good mornings, rows (which you said your doing), pull throughs, etc. as well as rack pulls for the upper half of the dead.

Learn how to "get your air" which means to fill your belly with air to protect your spine through intra abdominal pressure by essentially holding your breath (its called the valsalva manuever) and is basically what lifting belts are mimicking.

When I deadlift I usually only use the belt for heavy sets and straps only if I've torn a callus or something so I don't become dependent on them to much. I also reset after every rep so no bouncing and thus no momentum and doing so allows me to keep my form solid on every rep.

Another thing is flexibility. Hip and ankle flexibility in particular are huge in deads and squats so I would pay attention to both.

As others have said just pace yourself. Pin down your form and don't push to hard to fast or you WILL hurt yourself. I've suffered a partially ruptured disk from bad deadlift form when younger but am back at it now stronger than ever because I pay close attention to my form and how my body feels and don't neglect my weaknesses.

Remember to work as smart as you work hard and you'll last a lot longer.

Good luck!

Edit: One more tip (sorry could talk bout this all night) is don't jerk the bar. Get the slack out of your arms then pull, and as you pull visualize yourself pushing through the floor with your legs as you come to extension. Draw your arm slack, drop your hips (not crazy low), then push your feet through the floor and accelerate through the midrange to full extension. Think of it as much a push from your legs as a pull from your back. A lot of coaching tips I know but the more you do the dead the more you'll understand what I'm saying.

[Hogsmo Kramer]

The guy on the left is Andy Bolton first guy to dead 1000 lbs.

His starting form there is pretty much spot on IMO so just a visual to go by.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[clutch]

Hogsmo what grip do you use when doing deads?

[Hogsmo Kramer]

Hogsmo what grip do you use when doing deads?

I typically use just a regular double overhand grip for warmup and working sets and will use that grip as long as I can til I start losing it with heavier weights.

Once I get into heavier weight I'll switch to a hook grip, like Olympic lifters typically use, and then eventually a mixed grip (overhand/underhand) at maximal weights with my right hand being the underhand since I'm right handed.

Sometimes I'll switch up the mixed grip just for balance but I'm not sure it's necessary since I'm not doing a whole lot of sets that way but I'll do it sometimes anyway.

I should probably clarify that I'm not necessarily averse to straps and will at times (sparingly) use them but I try to avoid them as much as possible so they don't become a crutch. If someone wants to use them to pull big weight and only use them for their PR sets I don't see anything wrong with that especially if their grip is limiting them and they don't do competitions or anything.

[bennyl08]

Thanks for the advice.

[Hogfly]

I tried hook grip, and it absolutely killed my thumbs. Is that normal?

I went to it because my underhand arm got jacked up from unconsciously "flexing it" when lifting the weight. Serious pain all through my elbow. I've gone back to a mixed grip, but I'm extremely conscious of letting my arms hang limp and straight when pulling now.

[pigture perfect]

With the dead, start out with the Thompson stance. That is one leg on either side of the bar. It is a good warm up for the heavier dead lift and it make you naturally think to keep your back straight. Do a set with each leg forward. It is a great warm up. It will make medial quads scream at first, but it is great.

[clutch]

I typically use just a regular double overhand grip for warmup and working sets and will use that grip as long as I can til I start losing it with heavier weights.

Once I get into heavier weight I'll switch to a hook grip, like Olympic lifters typically use, and then eventually a mixed grip (overhand/underhand) at maximal weights with my right hand being the underhand since I'm right handed.

Sometimes I'll switch up the mixed grip just for balance but I'm not sure it's necessary since I'm not doing a whole lot of sets that way but I'll do it sometimes anyway.

I should probably clarify that I'm not necessarily averse to straps and will at times (sparingly) use them but I try to avoid them as much as possible so they don't become a crutch. If someone wants to use them to pull big weight and only use them for their PR sets I don't see anything wrong with that especially if their grip is limiting them and they don't do competitions or anything.

I guess I'm just weird, but I have a hard time doing anything but the double overhand grip. It seems I see most people using the mixed grip, but I've never been comfortable with it. It just doesn't work for me for some reason. I rarely use straps either, but do use them occasionally if I'm going really heavy.

[Hogsmo Kramer]

I tried hook grip, and it absolutely killed my thumbs. Is that normal?

I went to it because my underhand arm got jacked up from unconsciously "flexing it" when lifting the weight. Serious pain all through my elbow. I've gone back to a mixed grip, but I'm extremely conscious of letting my arms hang limp and straight when pulling now.

Yeah that's normal at least it is for me too. It gets better the more you do it but I ain't gonna lie its not a lot better but I also don't have real big hands so that might have something to do with it.

Also I feel ya on the bicep thing. I've strained my bicep using the mixed grip before because of bad form but once I corrected it I haven't had a problem. It is important to do it correctly though since there are plenty of videos of guys rupturing their bicep tendon on their underhand grip pulling really heavy weight and I for one DO NOT want to deal with that.

[Hogsmo Kramer]

I guess I'm just weird, but I have a hard time doing anything but the double overhand grip. It seems I see most people using the mixed grip, but I've never been comfortable with it. It just doesn't work for me for some reason. I rarely use straps either, but do use them occasionally if I'm going really heavy.

Naw you're not weird everybody's just built differently.

I honestly like the normal double overhand more than any grip and wouldn't switch if I could maintain it on my heavy sets.

As long as you're just using straps on your heavy sets I don't think it's a problem at all since I don't think any of us are deadlifting just for grip strength.

I have found that using a mixed grip is easier when doing sumo deads though just because of the positioning and I do switch back and forth from sumo to regular deads from time to time just for variety and so I don't get bored so you might try that if you haven't.

Regardless though I've seen some dudes pull some really heavy weight with just straps and a belt and I'd defy anyone to tell them they're weak for using straps when they're pulling 650 raw, so I wouldn't sweat it.

[clutch]

Naw you're not weird everybody's just built differently.

I honestly like the normal double overhand more than any grip and wouldn't switch if I could maintain it on my heavy sets.

As long as you're just using straps on your heavy sets I don't think it's a problem at all since I don't think any of us are deadlifting just for grip strength.

I have found that using a mixed grip is easier when doing sumo deads though just because of the positioning and I do switch back and forth from sumo to regular deads from time to time just for variety and so I don't get bored so you might try that if you haven't.

Regardless though I've seen some dudes pull some really heavy weight with just straps and a belt and I'd defy anyone to tell them they're weak for using straps when they're pulling 650 raw, so I wouldn't sweat it.

I've gotten really in to those fat gripz lately. I bought a set of those and they have done wonders for grip strength. They make the lift a lot harder though so it severely limits the amount of weight you can pull. I usually start out doing a few sets with them, then take them off for a few sets, and then put the straps on for the last few sets once I reach a weight where my grip will fail. Really the only time I use straps is when I won't be able to maintain my grip.

I was hesitant to buy them at first because I thought they were too expensive, but I used a friends one night and it convinced me. You can use a towel if you want, but these are a little easier.

If anyone is wondering what I'm talking about here is the link.

http://www.fatgripz.com/

[Hogsmo Kramer]

I've gotten really in to those fat gripz lately. I bought a set of those and they have done wonders for grip strength. They make the lift a lot harder though so it severely limits the amount of weight you can pull. I usually start out doing a few sets with them, then take them off for a few sets, and then put the straps on for the last few sets once I reach a weight where my grip will fail. Really the only time I use straps is when I won't be able to maintain my grip.

I was hesitant to buy them at first because I thought they were too expensive, but I used a friends one night and it convinced me. You can use a towel if you want, but these are a little easier.

If anyone is wondering what I'm talking about here is the link.

http://www.fatgripz.com/

Good to hear I am actually planning on asking Santa for some of those but like you was curious how well they work, good to hear first hand that you like em.

I'm thinking bout getting one of those slingshots too for benching. It's kind of like shirt benching but without the shirt. I'm planning to use it to overload my triceps and handle heavier weight in an attempt to get my raw bench back to 4 wheels on each side.

Hopefully it'll work since I'm only 25 lbs. or so away right now.

This is what I'm talking bout.



[attachment deleted by admin]

[clutch]

Good to hear I am actually planning on asking Santa for some of those but like you was curious how well they work, good to hear first hand that you like em.

I'm thinking bout getting one of those slingshots too for benching. It's kind of like shirt benching but without the shirt. I'm planning to use it to overload my triceps and handle heavier weight in an attempt to get my raw bench back to 4 wheels on each side.

Hopefully it'll work since I'm only 25 lbs. or so away right now.

This is what I'm talking bout.

There was a black thing laying around my gym the other day that looked like that but didn't have any writing or anything on it and I couldn't figure out what it was for. Now I know. I may have to try that thing out next time I'm in there.

But yeah, I really like the fat gripz for a number of exercises. I use them a lot on curls and bench press too. Even throw them on the pull up bar quite a bit. I've noticed that they are really handy when I'm having elbow pains. Throw on the fat gripz and the pain eases quite a bit during the lift. They aren't something you would want to use all the time, but the are great for a set here and there to mix things up.

[Hogsmo Kramer]

There was a black thing laying around my gym the other day that looked like that but didn't have any writing or anything on it and I couldn't figure out what it was for. Now I know. I may have to try that thing out next time I'm in there.

But yeah, I really like the fat gripz for a number of exercises. I use them a lot on curls and bench press too. Even throw them on the pull up bar quite a bit. I've noticed that they are really handy when I'm having elbow pains. Throw on the fat gripz and the pain eases quite a bit during the lift. They aren't something you would want to use all the time, but the are great for a set here and there to mix things up.

Lol yeah even 6 months or so ago I wouldn't have known what the crap it was either.

A couple different companies make them but the "slingshot" is supposedly the original and they've got different resistances depending what your bench is. I've read a lot of good reviews so I figure heck why not since its only like $50. Let me know if you use it what you think.

I'm definitely excited bout the fat grips too and the different dimension it will add to my training, anything to keep it fresh you know.

I've got all kinds of crap in my home gym just for that reason from weighted vests, sandbags, to rings, to a softball contraption for pull-ups with, etc.

It's always fun to get a new toy!