Cardinal Trades in the Next Few Weeks?

[mhuff]

Justin Masterson??? What is Mozeliak thinking? he's an idiot for not giving up Miller, Taveras, Lynn, Martinez and Piscotty to get a bat.

DUMB MOVE!!! 

I think Mo is just playing Poker. He is creating the image that we don't need players , especially another pitcher . According to some of the sports writers, we are better prepared to provide what the other teams are needing than any other team. As deep as our farm team is that may be the case.

I did not like giving up Ramsey..... and I do not want to lose Piscotty or Tavaras..... BUT....

Be patient.... I do not think we are through at all. Just trying to not give up the farm...... maybe we are putting the squeeze on. If we don't trade now, those other teams can forget about us giving up the farm.

I have read today, 2 scoops, above said that Tavaras, Miller, and a compensation pick are on the table now.

[mhuff]

Don't understand taking a guy that's been on the DL. Don't understand not getting a bat.

I think we get a bat. I think this guy is pitching for us Saturday.

[jrulz83]

I think Mo is just playing Poker. He is creating the image that we don't need players , especially another pitcher . According to some of the sports writers, we are better prepared to provide what the other teams are needing than any other team. As deep as our farm team is that may be the case.

I did not like giving up Ramsey..... and I do not want to lose Piscotty or Tavaras..... BUT....

Be patient.... I do not think we are through at all. Just trying to not give up the farm...... maybe we are putting the squeeze on. If we don't trade now, those other teams can forget about us giving up the farm.

I have read today, 2 scoops, above said that Tavaras, Miller, and a compensation pick are on the table now.

Taveras is not "on the table":

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/cardinal-beat/wacha-set-for-another-mri-and-cards-keeping-taveras/article_539aaf81-0faf-56a2-854b-af669eaff24b.html

The only bat I see Mozeliak adding is an off the bench type bat, which is about all that they need. I've said from the beginning that a starter is what would be added. The cost of a bat is waaaaaaaaaaay too high!

[clutch]

Taveras is not "on the table":

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/cardinal-beat/wacha-set-for-another-mri-and-cards-keeping-taveras/article_539aaf81-0faf-56a2-854b-af669eaff24b.html

The only bat I see Mozeliak adding is an off the bench type bat, which is about all that they need. I've said from the beginning that a starter is what would be added. The cost of a bat is waaaaaaaaaaay too high!

There's just no realistic options for a bat right now. As you said, the cost is way too high. Plus we have bats, they just aren't hitting to their full potential right now. I think they are about to wake up though. Sort of like 2011. This is about the time that team came alive.

[mhuff]

Taveras is not "on the table":

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/cardinal-beat/wacha-set-for-another-mri-and-cards-keeping-taveras/article_539aaf81-0faf-56a2-854b-af669eaff24b.html

The only bat I see Mozeliak adding is an off the bench type bat, which is about all that they need. I've said from the beginning that a starter is what would be added. The cost of a bat is waaaaaaaaaaay too high!

A certain amount of what he says is protecting the jewels. We have a couple of hours..... I still think a bat emerges. They just traded Kelley and Craig for Lakey. When you have a surplus, everyone is a possibility to be traded. We just cleared a little money with Craig.... Still think a bat is coming.

[lefty08]

That Lackey trade is attrocious

[jbell96]

That Lackey trade is attrocious

Why do you think it is a bad deal? We traded a 30 year old guy hitting .237 & a pitcher with a 4.37 ERA.

[jrulz83]

Why do you think it is a bad deal? We traded a 30 year old guy hitting .237 & a pitcher with a 4.37 ERA.

Correct, I would add; a thirty year old outfielder that was blocking a young phenom. This trade was made from two positions of organizational strength. In no way was it atrocious.

[lefty08]

Well, since u put it that way.........cherry pick some of lackeys stats and look closer

[jbell96]

One thing I do remember from last year is Lackey shutting the Cardinals down in the World Series. He's 11-7 with a 3.60 ERA in the AL, which translates much better in the National League, which is an easier league to pitch in.

[lefty08]

he is also 35......

[mhuff]

Sorry we lost those two guys, but players do not stay forever. Hope it helps the team. Looks like Price was given away. I do not understand what went on there. Sounds like the Rays held off til the last minute and was forced to take little in compensation. Sorry we did not get a bat.

[lefty08]

Price was signed through next year. It was odd

[hoghappy]

I was hoping for a lefty if we traded for pitching. Is Masterson a lhp?

[ucahogfan]

Price was signed through next year. It was odd

Price isn't signed for 2015.  He is arbitration eligible and will probably get 18-20M.  The Rays probably wouldn't have been able to afford him, but it was a horrible trade for Friedman and the Rays.

[ucahogfan]

I was hoping for a lefty if we traded for pitching. Is Masterson a lhp?

RHP who is extremely tough on RHHs when he is on and in the zone.

[clutch]

Price isn't signed for 2015.  He is arbitration eligible and will probably get 18-20M.  The Rays probably wouldn't have been able to afford him, but it was a horrible trade for Friedman and the Rays.

It really was a head scratcher. The rays talked as if they had to get exactly what they wanted at this point before they let him go and then come away with not much in return in the end. I was shocked they didn't just keep him at that point. Seems it would have been worth just trying to make the postseason.

[hoghappy]

RHP who is extremely tough on RHHs when he is on and in the zone.

thank you. I'm sorry if I ask silly questions sometimes. I'm just trying to learn about sports so I can have half way decent conversation with my husband about it. You guys on Hogville are so helpful.

[pigture perfect]

I don't know how to feel yet? I want to be pleased by these moves, but ehh. I was hoping to get offensive help especially if we were going to trade Craig. I thought AC would be one of the cogs in a trade because of Tavares being available, but he is generally a great rbi guy.

[jbell96]

he is also 35......

That's all you've got? You just want to complain about the trade without making any logical argument. Boston is paying part of his salary for this year & he's only making 500K next season. That is a pretty low risk deal. Kelly will likely be at 4/5 starter for the rest of his career and Craig is a 30 year old outfielder starting to decline. If you think trading that for a guy with recent postseason success is a bad trade then I don't know what to tell you.

[mhuff]

That's all you've got? You just want to complain about the trade without making any logical argument. Boston is paying part of his salary for this year & he's only making 500K next season. That is a pretty low risk deal. Kelly will likely be at 4/5 starter for the rest of his career and Craig is a 30 year old outfielder starting to decline. If you think trading that for a guy with recent postseason success is a bad trade then I don't know what to tell you.

Well, I do not know how to feel either. We didn't get any hitting. On the pitchers, I feel it was like buying insurance. The majority of the starters were not going past 51/3 innings. Someone was going to hurt an arm.

[jbell96]

Well you are actually talking about it, the other guy just said "This is stupid" and didn't expand on why he thought that way.

Mo said from the start that there were no impact bats on the market so adding a bat was never an option for us. Boston gave up their ace to get a power hitting outfielder in Cespedes, that despite his raw talent, is still a bit unproven. I do think he will be perfect fit in Boston since it is much more hitter friendly park than Oakland.

Another good thing is Oscar will finally get to show what he can do. It will be easier on him mentally knowing that he's not going to get benched if he has one bad night, as opposed to not knowing what Matheny is going to do on a nightly basis. I feel like that home run he hit yesterday was like a weight lifting off his shoulders. He knows that the organization is showing faith in him to be the future of the Cards.

I also think Grichuk will come up to fill a roster spot and give us a good power bat off the bench. I know it is AAA, but he's hit 20 homers this year, and if there is something we need off the bench it is power.

Since Wacha went on the DL, the Cardinals are dead last in innings pitched by their rotation. That is a problem because our bullpen has been extremely overworked thanks to that stat. Having inning eaters like Masterson & Lackey will help take some of the work load off of those guys & have them fresh for a postseason run.

[mhuff]

Well you are actually talking about it, the other guy just said "This is stupid" and didn't expand on why he thought that way.

Mo said from the start that there were no impact bats on the market so adding a bat was never an option for us. Boston gave up their ace to get a power hitting outfielder in Cespedes, that despite his raw talent, is still a bit unproven. I do think he will be perfect fit in Boston since it is much more hitter friendly park than Oakland.

Another good thing is Oscar will finally get to show what he can do. It will be easier on him mentally knowing that he's not going to get benched if he has one bad night, as opposed to not knowing what Matheny is going to do on a nightly basis. I feel like that home run he hit yesterday was like a weight lifting off his shoulders. He knows that the organization is showing faith in him to be the future of the Cards.

I also think Grichuk will come up to fill a roster spot and give us a good power bat off the bench. I know it is AAA, but he's hit 20 homers this year, and if there is something we need off the bench it is power.

Since Wacha went on the DL, the Cardinals are dead last in innings pitched by their rotation. That is a problem because our bullpen has been extremely overworked thanks to that stat. Having inning eaters like Masterson & Lackey will help take some of the work load off of those guys & have them fresh for a postseason run.

+1

Grichuk is a possibility. I was going to mention him ,but you beat me to it. He has power ,but it takes a while to get used to sliders, curve balls, and change ups. He didn't tear it up when he was up before. The minors are more fast ball oriented. Plus, I would think the pitching would be such that the batters would get more hitter's pitches since the control would not be as good.

We are like 29th or 30thin runs scored and RISP.

[ucahogfan]

Since Wacha went on the DL, the Cardinals are dead last in innings pitched by their rotation. That is a problem because our bullpen has been extremely overworked thanks to that stat. Having inning eaters like Masterson & Lackey will help take some of the work load off of those guys & have them fresh for a postseason run.

But was the cost of Joe Kelly and Allen Craig really worth the benefit of adding John Lackey?  Lackey has been a very good pitcher with the exception of 2010-2012 (2012 was TJ year), but Craig could be a .315/20 HR/100 RBI guy for the Red Sox and is signed to a relatively team friendly contract through 2018 if he can contribute 3-4 WAR/year.  Kelly is a young flamethrower who can hit 98 and is the same middle of the rotation type starter that Lackey is.

[mhuff]

But was the cost of Joe Kelly and Allen Craig really worth the benefit of adding John Lackey?  Lackey has been a very good pitcher with the exception of 2010-2012 (2012 was TJ year), but Craig could be a .315/20 HR/100 RBI guy for the Red Sox and is signed to a relatively team friendly contract through 2018 if he can contribute 3-4 WAR/year.  Kelly is a young flamethrower who can hit 98 and is the same middle of the rotation type starter that Lackey is.

I see the need. I may not like it ,nor his team mates: however, Mo made that trade for this year...... We have the depth to replace them ,and they were not producing. We needed something now. I can only see Grichuk coming back up sometime before the playoffs. I sure wanted a batter. Sounds to me like the Cards needed to make one more call to the Rays before getting Lackey. From a dollars and sense stand point, Mo did not give up the farm. There are several outfielders in Memphis that will be promoted to StL or be trade bait in the future. We will make some more trades at the end of the year. Mo has a tough job to get all the pieces going. Craig could come back to haunt us ,but I have to think there's something we do not know.

[clutch]

But was the cost of Joe Kelly and Allen Craig really worth the benefit of adding John Lackey?  Lackey has been a very good pitcher with the exception of 2010-2012 (2012 was TJ year), but Craig could be a .315/20 HR/100 RBI guy for the Red Sox and is signed to a relatively team friendly contract through 2018 if he can contribute 3-4 WAR/year.  Kelly is a young flamethrower who can hit 98 and is the same middle of the rotation type starter that Lackey is.

This is exactly how I feel about it.

I think the worst part is we made this trade before the Price deal. After seeing what he went for, I have to think we could have landed him instead. He would have been worth it.

[lefty08]

the "other" guy, didnt say any such thing. Im not arguing with you, as bad as you may want me to Bell. I dont see the reasoning behind the Cards move at all. Craig isnt necessarily declining, hes had a rough year. 30 isnt the age to pull the plug oin a guy that has been good the majority of his MLB career. If St Louis doesnt make the playoffs this year, it was a horrible trade. Who knows if Lackey will even honor his contract next year. He is 35 afterall. the 35 part was a direct quote from the "other" guy.

[TomasPistola]

A Team that was next to last in the NL in runs scored but 3rd in fewest runs allowed trades for another pitcher. Still doesn't make sense to me.

[mhuff]

Lefty, I was a huge Craig fan. But, his hitting avg. was going down like the stock market. In sports whether I like it or not, it's what have you done for me lately. Mo had to do something about starting pitchers who weren't going deep enough. Yes, we have pitching depth in the system, but it is not proven in MLB.
He was interested in making the playoffs and had to do what he thought was in the best interests of the team. It is lonely at the top. I keep harping about it, but we needed hitting too. I think Mo feels the minors will give us a spark there as well. If we make the playoffs, it was worth it. It was a gamble he felt we had to take. If we don't start hitting, we won't make it. Trades coming at end of season...... But, we won't sell the farm. Patience and prudence are a virtue.

[lefty08]

Lefty, I was a huge Craig fan. But, his hitting avg. was going down like the stock market. In sports whether I like it or not, it's what have you done for me lately. Mo had to do something about starting pitchers who weren't going deep enough. Yes, we have pitching depth in the system, but it is not proven in MLB.
He was interested in making the playoffs and had to do what he thought was in the best interests of the team. It is lonely at the top. I keep harping about it, but we needed hitting too. I think Mo feels the minors will give us a spark there as well. If we make the playoffs, it was worth it. It was a gamble he felt we had to take. If we don't start hitting, we won't make it. Trades coming at end of season...... But, we won't sell the farm. Patience and prudence are a virtue.

Im not a cardinal fan, just had an opinion on the trade

[jbell96]

So lefty, Lackey really sucked today didn't he?

[jbell96]

A Team that was next to last in the NL in runs scored but 3rd in fewest runs allowed trades for another pitcher. Still doesn't make sense to me.

I understand that line of thinking, but I've said this many times and will say it again, since Wacha went down, the Cards were DEAD LAST in innings pitched by their starting rotation. That is why they got Masterson & Lackey. Second, what bats were out there? To get Cespedes from Oakland, Boston had to give up their ace. There just wasn't anyone available at the deadline without giving up the farm.

It's a small sample size, but the Cards have averaged 5.5 runs since the trade. Matt Holliday is starting to heat up & Taveras is showing confidence he hasn't had all season. Amazing what happens when you show a kid that you believe in him to spark your club.

[TomasPistola]

I understand that line of thinking, but I've said this many times and will say it again, since Wacha went down, the Cards were DEAD LAST in innings pitched by their starting rotation. That is why they got Masterson & Lackey. Second, what bats were out there? To get Cespedes from Oakland, Boston had to give up their ace. There just wasn't anyone available at the deadline without giving up the farm.

It's a small sample size, but the Cards have averaged 5.5 runs since the trade. Matt Holliday is starting to heat up & Taveras is showing confidence he hasn't had all season. Amazing what happens when you show a kid that you believe in him to spark your club.

Way too early to tell how it's gonna work out. Hopefully the offense does wake up. But tonight they were putting up gooseggs until The Brewer's starter went out with an injury. I am encouraged by Tavaras though. Great young talent. Also getting AJ was not a bad move either. I think that might end up being an underrated move if the Cards make the playoffs. Though I'd much prefer Molina get back ASAP.

[jbell96]

Yeah it is too early to tell, but I like what I see so far. Lackey is a bulldog on the mound so he will bring some of that edge that Chris Carpenter did. It's always good to have a pitcher that hitters don't like.

Masterson has a bit further to go, but Saturday was his first start in almost a month against a good offensive team. As long as he can go 6 or more and keep us in games I will be fine with it.

I was adamantly against signing AJ, but I think he's been solid for us so far. Him & Cruz should be able to hold the fort down until Yadi gets back.

[mhuff]

Yeah it is too early to tell, but I like what I see so far. Lackey is a bulldog on the mound so he will bring some of that edge that Chris Carpenter did. It's always good to have a pitcher that hitters don't like.

Masterson has a bit further to go, but Saturday was his first start in almost a month against a good offensive team. As long as he can go 6 or more and keep us in games I will be fine with it.

I was adamantly against signing AJ, but I think he's been solid for us so far. Him & Cruz should be able to hold the fort down until Yadi gets back.

Bell, I am thinking that Cruz was not playing behind the plate as they desired. I do not think that he has thrown out anyone since Molina was hurt. I do think Cruz is doing "OK' with bat , but AJ is doing well also.

[pigture perfect]

Yeah, AJ has been good for us so far. I wouldn't mind keeping him as a back up after Yadi returns.

[mhuff]

Yeah, AJ has been good for us so far. I wouldn't mind keeping him as a back up after Yadi returns.

Picture, how much is he making? That will make a big difference.

[GolfNut57]

I was adamantly against signing AJ, but I think he's been solid for us so far. Him & Cruz should be able to hold the fort down until Yadi gets back.

Speaking as a Red Sox fan I felt the same way too. At first he was seeming to be a decent catcher. But then as time went on he grew to be a royal pain. His plate discipline sucks and half the time on stolen base attempts he would drop the ball on the exchange and thus never get a throw off. Not to mention it didn't take long to learn that he was HORRIBLE at framing pitches. I lost count of how many times he would catch a pitch on the corner that the ump had called a strike all night long, but still felt the need to move the glove into an even better position and ended up costing his pitcher the call as the ump would note the movement of the mitt.

The final straw for me one night was when the opposing pitcher was really struggling, couldn't hit the strike zone if he was just 10 feet away and had loaded the bases with 1 out with 3 walks in the first inning. Pierzynski stepped into the box and swung at the very first pitch and grounded into an inning ending DP. And the pitch he swung at wasn't even in a good spot. As I recall it was borderline off the inside corner.

[dhornjr1]

The final straw for me one night was when the opposing pitcher was really struggling, couldn't hit the strike zone if he was just 10 feet away and had loaded the bases with 1 out with 3 walks in the first inning. Pierzynski stepped into the box and swung at the very first pitch and grounded into an inning ending DP. And the pitch he swung at wasn't even in a good spot. As I recall it was borderline off the inside corner.

As a Cardinal fan of 35+ years, I can tell you that this sounds perfect for us.

[jbell96]

Speaking as a Red Sox fan I felt the same way too. At first he was seeming to be a decent catcher. But then as time went on he grew to be a royal pain. His plate discipline sucks and half the time on stolen base attempts he would drop the ball on the exchange and thus never get a throw off. Not to mention it didn't take long to learn that he was HORRIBLE at framing pitches. I lost count of how many times he would catch a pitch on the corner that the ump had called a strike all night long, but still felt the need to move the glove into an even better position and ended up costing his pitcher the call as the ump would note the movement of the mitt.

The final straw for me one night was when the opposing pitcher was really struggling, couldn't hit the strike zone if he was just 10 feet away and had loaded the bases with 1 out with 3 walks in the first inning. Pierzynski stepped into the box and swung at the very first pitch and grounded into an inning ending DP. And the pitch he swung at wasn't even in a good spot. As I recall it was borderline off the inside corner.

I am waiting for the other shoe to drop with him, call me cautiously optimistic. Just hope Yadi comes back 100% so we won't need him for much longer.

When Waino pitched at Chicago a few weeks back I thought AJ was hurting him a bit. Holding the ball too long on borderline pitches made it seem like he was showing up the home plate ump.

[TomasPistola]

I am waiting for the other shoe to drop with him, call me cautiously optimistic. Just hope Yadi comes back 100% so we won't need him for much longer.

When Waino pitched at Chicago a few weeks back I thought AJ was hurting him a bit. Holding the ball too long on borderline pitches made it seem like he was showing up the home plate ump.

AJ is a dick. Everyone pretty much knows that. I'm ok with it if he helps us win.