A-Rod Walks out of Grievance Hearing

[clutch]

Interesting article that argues new stadiums and expansion teams played a role in putting people in seats:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jan/13/loverro-baseballs-steroid-era-steeped-myths-and-li/?page=2

Not saying I completely agree, just a different opinion from the standard narrative.

I think that probably helped some, but ultimately balls flying 400+ feet is what brought people out imo. Back in the McGuire days, STL was filling up for batting practice alone.

[jrulz83]

From a Tom Verducci article written last year.

One of the great myths about The Steroid Era is that steroids "saved baseball" and made for a great period of huge economic growth. It's baloney. After the great home run race of 1998, per game attendance went down three of the next five years. Take the best per-game attendance in The Steroid Era (1995-2003) and it would be the worst attendance rate of The Testing Era (2004-2012).

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/mlb/news/20130212/spring-training-preview-tom-verducci/#ixzz2qQvN2EUA

[AF74Razorback]

From a Tom Verducci article written last year.

One of the great myths about The Steroid Era is that steroids "saved baseball" and made for a great period of huge economic growth. It's baloney. After the great home run race of 1998, per game attendance went down three of the next five years. Take the best per-game attendance in The Steroid Era (1995-2003) and it would be the worst attendance rate of The Testing Era (2004-2012).

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/mlb/news/20130212/spring-training-preview-tom-verducci/#ixzz2qQvN2EUA

All this media exposure undid all that made the game fun then.   I hate the inflated numbers but it seems all media wants to do is be patronizing and scooping other reporters and media.

I saw some sports blog talking about the Top 20 Scum Bags in sports.   Okay,  I do agree with Aaron Hernandez but the rest that is up for question.  Why the obnoxiousness?  What is gained?  Is this uproar over A-Rod any different than with any other alleged scandals?

It is my belief that people care more about other people's business than their own.   When is this nation going to stop being so starstruck and equally willing to trash our sports stars?     Many of them fail in their personal life.   Kind of like ALL of us.   Live and learn is what I think we should be doing.

[jrulz83]

All this media exposure undid all that made the game fun then.   I hate the inflated numbers but it seems all media wants to do is be patronizing and scooping other reporters and media.

I saw some sports blog talking about the Top 20 Scum Bags in sports.   Okay,  I do agree with Aaron Hernandez but the rest that is up for question.  Why the obnoxiousness?  What is gained?  Is this uproar over A-Rod any different than with any other alleged scandals?

It is my belief that people care more about other people's business than their own.   When is this nation going to stop being so starstruck and equally willing to trash our sports stars?     Many of them fail in their personal life.   Kind of like ALL of us.   Live and learn is what I think we should be doing.

So, you think the steroid use made the game more fun and everybody should mind their own business?

[AF74Razorback]

So, you think the steroid use made the game more fun and everybody should mind their own business?

It was fun but artificial and I think I explain that best by the difference in production between Jose Canseco and his twin brother Ozzie.   Ozzie looked different in size but you could tell they were twins.

Most people in baseball thrived on it and like clutch has said the owners knew and so did most of the others.   To the clean players I am sorry you have to deal with cheaters.

The problem with the A-Rod is that the media loves to hate on people and it is sad.   Being in the media since 1989,  I get what matters to them.

[hog.goblin]

It was fun but artificial and I think I explain that best by the difference in production between Jose Canseco and his twin brother Ozzie.   Ozzie looked different in size but you could tell they were twins.

Most people in baseball thrived on it and like clutch has said the owners knew and so did most of the others.   To the clean players I am sorry you have to deal with cheaters.

The problem with the A-Rod is that the media loves to hate on people and it is sad.   Being in the media since 1989,  I get what matters to them.

Just saw a commercial for natural testosterone supplements starring Canseco.  Seriously, his endorsement helps?

[AF74Razorback]

Just saw a commercial for natural testosterone supplements starring Canseco.  Seriously, his endorsement helps?

That guy is a piece of work.  He is a satire of himself.

[jrulz83]

That guy is a piece of work.  He is a satire of himself.

Without him writing a book and marketing it by making outrageous claims of bathroom stall shootups, I think we would still be blissfully ignorant. Even though he is a slimeball.....

[AF74Razorback]

Without him writing a book and marketing it by making outrageous claims of bathroom stall shootups, I think we would still be blissfully ignorant. Even though he is a slimeball.....

Okay there is just so much beating of a dead horse.  What is the point of it?  Integrity of the game? 

[jrulz83]

Okay there is just so much beating of a dead horse.  What is the point of it?  Integrity of the game?

According to some, it has nothing to do with the integrity of anything. Some say that the only reasons were securing Selig's legacy and covering up that he and all the other owners knew about and perhaps encouraged the rampant steroid use because they are part of the 1% that only care about profits. We should occupy Wall Street, oops I mean MLB headquarters.

I just don't buy the conspiracy theory, I've been conditioned not to. Too much Ancient Aliens I suppose... The dead horse beating always starts in one place, the hallowed media whom (they think) we all should worship as gods.

[AF74Razorback]

According to some, it has nothing to do with the integrity of anything. Some say that the only reasons were securing Selig's legacy and covering up that he and all the other owners knew about and perhaps encouraged the rampant steroid use because they are part of the 1% that only care about profits. We should occupy Wall Street, oops I mean MLB headquarters.

I just don't buy the conspiracy theory, I've been conditioned not to. Too much Ancient Aliens I suppose... The dead horse beating always starts in one place, the hallowed media whom (they think) we all should worship as gods.

I saw what media does behind the scenes.    And you will just have to take my word for it.  Not based upon being in the media but because it don't add up and Selig is getting a pass and more than that,  he was some kind of hero.   That just doesn't sit well with me.

[clutch]

According to some, it has nothing to do with the integrity of anything. Some say that the only reasons were securing Selig's legacy and covering up that he and all the other owners knew about and perhaps encouraged the rampant steroid use because they are part of the 1% that only care about profits. We should occupy Wall Street, oops I mean MLB headquarters.

I just don't buy the conspiracy theory, I've been conditioned not to. Too much Ancient Aliens I suppose... The dead horse beating always starts in one place, the hallowed media whom (they think) we all should worship as gods.

I don't see it as a conspiracy. I see it as the MLB doing the most logical thing they could have done. They didn't ever really lie and say that there wasn't a steroid problem or try some massive cover-up. They just didn't bring it to light, and I don't blame them. They may be only 1% as you say, but they are the 1% that is in charge of determining what makes the other 99% happy.

The world has changed. There aren't near as many pure baseball fans as there were in the past. Fans now are too ADD. They want to see scoring and lots of it. You can see it in all sports. The homerun was sexy, it sold. At least a heck of a lot better than the 2-1 win. Now me, I still love a good pitching duel as much as anything, but I know I'm in the minority. MLB has to think about the casual fan too when making decisions because there are far more of them than there are extreme fans. The casual fan likes offense.

So  why would the bring it to light? They had no hard evidence at the time, as you've mentioned, but I can guarantee you that they had suspicions. Those guys monitor the game for a living. They know when something looks fishy. When guys like Brady Anderson started hitting 50 hr's a year after only hitting 72 total in the previous 8 seasons. Or guys like Bagwell who went from hitting virtually no homeruns in the minors to hitting around 20 in the majors before stepping it up even more and hitting in the 40's. Or Luis Gonzalez, who was a good hitter his whole career, but practically double his career high homerun total over 1 off-season from 31-57?

They had suspicions, they just didn't act on them at the time. I think they had baseball's best interest at heart, or at least thought they did. Once they realized that the fans wanted steroids gone, they started making an effort to eliminate them. I believe that they are doing everything the can to get rid of them now, it's just that they put themselves in a tough situation by waiting. It's not that they tried to hide anything. They just made a bad decision at the time and are now trying to correct it the hard way. 

[jrulz83]

I don't see it as a conspiracy. I see it as the MLB doing the most logical thing they could have done. They didn't ever really lie and say that there wasn't a steroid problem or try some massive cover-up. They just didn't bring it to light, and I don't blame them. They may be only 1% as you say, but they are the 1% that is in charge of determining what makes the other 99% happy.

The world has changed. There aren't near as many pure baseball fans as there were in the past. Fans now are too ADD. They want to see scoring and lots of it. You can see it in all sports. The homerun was sexy, it sold. At least a heck of a lot better than the 2-1 win. Now me, I still love a good pitching duel as much as anything, but I know I'm in the minority. MLB has to think about the casual fan too when making decisions because there are far more of them than there are extreme fans. The casual fan likes offense.

So  why would the bring it to light? They had no hard evidence at the time, as you've mentioned, but I can guarantee you that they had suspicions. Those guys monitor the game for a living. They know when something looks fishy. When guys like Brady Anderson started hitting 50 hr's a year after only hitting 72 total in the previous 8 seasons. Or guys like Bagwell who went from hitting virtually no homeruns in the minors to hitting around 20 in the majors before stepping it up even more and hitting in the 40's. Or Luis Gonzalez, who was a good hitter his whole career, but practically double his career high homerun total over 1 off-season from 31-57?

They had suspicions, they just didn't act on them at the time. I think they had baseball's best interest at heart, or at least thought they did. Once they realized that the fans wanted steroids gone, they started making an effort to eliminate them. I believe that they are doing everything the can to get rid of them now, it's just that they put themselves in a tough situation by waiting. It's not that they tried to hide anything. They just made a bad decision at the time and are now trying to correct it the hard way.

This isn't any fun, you wrote a reasonable answer

I agree with you, they in all likelihood had suspicions. I think you'll agree with me on this being their thought processes: they didn't want to act because they were afraid of a scandal threatening to cause more bad press that they thought baseball couldn't afford after all the strikes. The great miscalculation they made is underestimating the game. Baseball is bigger than any threat to it and will always survive. Steroids, strikes, tv ratings, wars, Great depressions, individual owners, commissioners; none of it can destroy the game.

If MLB had handled it from the moment there was any suspicion of it, we wouldn't even be talking about it today. The problem is never the issue, it is always how the problem is handled that causes the outrage among people. Be it a cover up or a slow reaction to a known problem, it just causes more problems when something is not dealt with in a head on and timely manner. Dealing with it straight up keeps a problem from becoming a scandal.

You should be worried that I'm agreeing with you at all. I'm nearly always in the minority. lol

[clutch]

This isn't any fun, you wrote a reasonable answer

I agree with you, they in all likelihood had suspicions. I think you'll agree with me on this being their thought processes: they didn't want to act because they were afraid of a scandal threatening to cause more bad press that they thought baseball couldn't afford after all the strikes. The great miscalculation they made is underestimating the game. Baseball is bigger than any threat to it and will always survive. Steroids, strikes, tv ratings, wars, Great depressions, individual owners, commissioners; none of it can destroy the game.

If MLB had handled it from the moment there was any suspicion of it, we wouldn't even be talking about it today. The problem is never the issue, it is always how the problem is handled that causes the outrage among people. Be it a cover up or a slow reaction to a known problem, it just causes more problems when something is not dealt with in a head on and timely manner. Dealing with it straight up keeps a problem from becoming a scandal.

You should be worried that I'm agreeing with you at all. I'm nearly always in the minority. lol

Absolutely. It most definitely all boils down to how it was handled, or not handled. Hindsights 20/20, but I'm sure if they had it to do over again they would. Selig would be remembered in a totally different light then.

It was a tough decision though so I can't blame them. You had steroids making the game fun to some that wouldn't watch otherwise and a scandal if you let it out. I'm sure at the time they thought it was a no brainer to turn their heads. Letting it be known that there was a steroid problem would hurt them both ways. They just failed to realize the damage it would do down the road if it was found out.