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Preseason Magazines not kind to Razorbacks

Started by Mr. Porkleone, September 22, 2017, 01:17:25 pm

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Mr. Porkleone

Seen 3 today. Linsey's, Athlon, Sporting news.

Not expecting much.  We will see. I may be wrong. But how our year ended I thought we'd be predicted a little higher. 

ErieHog

We're not going to be picked in the top 4 of the league; that was entirely expected.

This will be a much better team to end the year, than the beginning, as well.   There's going to be a step back in record,  which may not reflect a decline in the overall level of play.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

 

navyhog24

Quote from: ErieHog on September 22, 2017, 01:23:56 pm
We're not going to be picked in the top 4 of the league; that was entirely expected.

This will be a much better team to end the year, than the beginning, as well.   There's going to be a step back in record,  which may not reflect a decline in the overall level of play.


Agreed. This team has a lot of potential, but with the bump up in schedule and waiting for the freshmen to acclimate, there will be early growing pains.

Marshfieldhog

Kingsley drove me nuts, I think we can cover that loss and then some. I'm surprised we are not ranked higher since Macon and Barford came back.

batmanfan

Quote from: Mr. Porkleone on September 22, 2017, 01:17:25 pm
Seen 3 today. Linsey's, Athlon, Sporting news.

Not expecting much.  We will see. I may be wrong. But how our year ended I thought we'd be predicted a little higher. 

Well...where did they pick us?
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HoopS

I think there's some hidden improvement some aren't factoring in with potential of defense on the ball from Hannah's minutes and scoring from Manny's minutes. Trey and Gafford need to produce to somewhat offset losing MK. But the potential for some gains is there in a few areas. Need CJ to become a consistent threat outside and I think he will. Need an uptick out of the PF's and including Bailey and I also think that's gonna happen. Bailey showed late what he could bring. Strictly looking at his PPG won't impress magazine writers but we saw something late that should excite us.

I agree that we will likely win fewer games but may actually end up stronger.

Dominicanhog

These magazines are like sheep.. they follow... if you weren't in the previous T25, your probably not going to make the preseason T25.. they put the usual suspects in because it's safe and easy... in addition, they don't have to do much research.....

My thoughts are a little different than some others ..we will be  T25 most of the year,  a better team than last year and we'll win at least 25... I think this is the year where everybody knows the Hogs are back.... these next few years are going to be the golden years of the Anderson era..

rzrbkman

If this was any other team, besides Arkansas, and I was looking at the roster/bio/returning players and incoming players, I would not be confident on the potential inside game, at this point.

Dominicanhog

Quote from: rzrbkman on September 23, 2017, 08:36:32 am
If this was any other team, besides Arkansas, and I was looking at the roster/bio/returning players and incoming players, I would not be confident on the potential inside game, at this point.
I understand this... but when looking at other teams, they lost as much or more than we did,  you can say something about them not being as good in the back court or defensively or up front... each team has questions... we have a lot returning from a pretty good team that was getting better as the year went on... imo, we pick up where we left off...  We get a chance to proof it early with our schedule.. I think we surprise.....

LR_Matt

Quote from: batmanfan on September 22, 2017, 03:44:06 pm
Well...where did they pick us?

I've seen anywhere from 4th to 6th in the conference. UK picked to repeat as SEC champs again.

Dominicanhog

Quote from: LR_Matt on September 23, 2017, 10:30:33 pm
I've seen anywhere from 4th to 6th in the conference. UK picked to repeat as SEC champs again.

sounds about right for UK .. until someone can prove otherwise.. 4th is where I would pick us as well... think we'll end up top 3 when it's all said and done.

husker71


Ironhawg

I'm afraid the first couple of months may be a little bit of a roller coaster ride until the team can gel.  I'm a little worried about the inside game, but I'm still excited for the season to get here!

 

The_Iceman

It's hard to project Mike Anderson teams in the preseason because these magazines are all about the star players. While I believe Macon and Barford will be studs and average 15+ ppg each, the strength of this team will be the waves of length, talent, and athleticism we can throw at a team throughout the course of a game.

Dwight_K_Shrute

Quote from: husker71 on September 24, 2017, 05:21:37 am
order Blue Ribbon

No doubt.  I don't read preseason BBall mags but if I did this would be the only one.  It's considered the hands down Bible.  They did a FB version for a few years that was great as well just too much competition.
Little known fact, but prior to settling on Guantanamo, the Pentagon wanted to house terror suspects at War Memorial Stadium.  It was deemed to be cruel and unusual punishment and in violation of the Geneva Convention.

Brake

Quote from: Dominicanhog on September 23, 2017, 08:44:21 am
I understand this... but when looking at other teams, they lost as much or more than we did,  you can say something about them not being as good in the back court or defensively or up front... each team has questions... we have a lot returning from a pretty good team that was getting better as the year went on... imo, we pick up where we left off...  We get a chance to proof it early with our schedule.. I think we surprise.....

This is my thinking as well man. I see a lot of people say we need time to gel. I don't understand why. We only lost 3 players from last year and I think we got better players in their place and the rest of the team has had a year to gel. No one is saying UK needs time to gel and they're getting a completely new team. I think we start strong and stay strong the whole year. A lot of people will be surprised.

HoopS

I thought about this last night too.

You've got some key guards coming back. You've got experienced bigs also returning.

I could see use mixing two waves of players to spread out the new guys and experience and finish games early in the season with more of our seasoned guys and gradually work your others into that fold. If they adjust quickly, then even better.

We may not struggle to gel like some think.

I could see us using Barford, Macon, Garland, Thomas, Thompson starting and then Beard, Jones, Bailey, Miles and Gafford off the bench. Not sure what'll happen with Cook or our late signee. Each rotation would blend experience with youth

Late in close games you want Barford and Macon for sure out there and then various combos based on hot hands and match ups.

I venture to say not many teams have the ability to run 3 senior guards out there like we do. That's a very good thing. If our bigs develop, look out.

batmanfan

If I remember right, last year South Carolina was being picked 6-8th in the league in the preseason. Very underrated, and like us has some stud guards coming back.
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The_Iceman

This is the first time we have real NCAA tournament experience returning under Mike Anderson. As in guys who seriously contributed. That will make a difference in how quickly this team gels early in the year.

Fan701

Quote from: batmanfan on September 25, 2017, 10:19:59 am
If I remember right, last year South Carolina was being picked 6-8th in the league in the preseason. Very underrated, and like us has some stud guards coming back.

Bleacher Report had South Carolina picked for 11th last year.  Athlon had them 9th.  USA Today had them 10th.

ErieHog

Quote from: Brake on September 25, 2017, 03:55:46 am
This is my thinking as well man. I see a lot of people say we need time to gel. I don't understand why. We only lost 3 players from last year and I think we got better players in their place and the rest of the team has had a year to gel. No one is saying UK needs time to gel and they're getting a completely new team. I think we start strong and stay strong the whole year. A lot of people will be surprised.

Arkansas loses a SEC POTY candidate and the anchor of their defense.  Players who have had trouble staying on the floor for long stretches are going to be vital to our success.    Talented recruits come in, to be sure, but it is widely considered either the 5th or 6th best class in the league-- and lacks the top end talent of every class ranked ahead of it.

There really isn't any mystery as to why we aren't a popular pick, even if we have the potential to outperform a few other teams that get early hype.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

Big Nasty 34

Quote from: HoopS on September 25, 2017, 09:56:04 am
I thought about this last night too.

You've got some key guards coming back. You've got experienced bigs also returning.

I could see use mixing two waves of players to spread out the new guys and experience and finish games early in the season with more of our seasoned guys and gradually work your others into that fold. If they adjust quickly, then even better.

We may not struggle to gel like some think.

I could see us using Barford, Macon, Garland, Thomas, Thompson starting and then Beard, Jones, Bailey, Miles and Gafford off the bench. Not sure what'll happen with Cook or our late signee. Each rotation would blend experience with youth

Late in close games you want Barford and Macon for sure out there and then various combos based on hot hands and match ups.

I venture to say not many teams have the ability to run 3 senior guards out there like we do. That's a very good thing. If our bigs develop, look out.

See, I think Hall will be the surprise between he and Garland and can see him getting the start at the 3 spot. Seems to be a great candidate to replace Manny. Does all the little things to help his team win, and isn't looking to "get his" on the offensive end.

Brake

Quote from: ErieHog on September 25, 2017, 01:16:35 pm
Arkansas loses a SEC POTY candidate and the anchor of their defense.  Players who have had trouble staying on the floor for long stretches are going to be vital to our success.    Talented recruits come in, to be sure, but it is widely considered either the 5th or 6th best class in the league-- and lacks the top end talent of every class ranked ahead of it.

There really isn't any mystery as to why we aren't a popular pick, even if we have the potential to outperform a few other teams that get early hype.

Kingsley was a sec poty candidate because his Jr year, he was the best player on a bad team. On a good team (last year) his numbers dropped quite a bit and was never really looked at as the best player in the sec. And I'm not saying this team should be hyped up, I'm just pointing out that we are in a lot better shape to win early on than a lot of other teams.

Letsroll1200

The SEC is deep and talented this season. I have the hogs fifth going into the season.

 

ShadowHawg

Quote from: Letsroll1200 on September 29, 2017, 09:52:48 am
The SEC is deep and talented this season. I have the hogs fifth going into the season.

I think this is a fair starting point for sure.

Fan701

Quote from: Letsroll1200 on September 29, 2017, 09:52:48 am
The SEC is deep and talented this season. I have the hogs fifth going into the season.
But do the four teams you pick ahead of us have players that will turn out to have been paid?  That might change things considerably.  Auburn will almost certainly have at least one and probably more key players ruled ineligible, as well as lose their coach, so if you picked them ahead of us, which wouldn't have seemed unreasonable a week ago, you might want to think again.

hoglady

Those preseason magazines are going to have to have a reset before this season starts.
Inside every "older" person is a younger person wondering what the hell happened?

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Letsroll1200

Quote from: Fan701 on September 29, 2017, 11:37:42 am
But do the four teams you pick ahead of us have players that will turn out to have been paid?  That might change things considerably.  Auburn will almost certainly have at least one and probably more key players ruled ineligible, as well as lose their coach, so if you picked them ahead of us, which wouldn't have seemed unreasonable a week ago, you might want to think again.

Kentucky, Florida, A&M and Miss. State ahead of the Razorbacks. Things could change.

FineAsSwine

Quote from: Letsroll1200 on September 29, 2017, 04:52:45 pm
Kentucky, Florida, A&M and Miss. State ahead of the Razorbacks. Things could change.

Whole KY class ruled ineligible would be my dream come true.
Hogs up! Covid down!

ErieHog

Quote from: hoglady on September 29, 2017, 04:25:35 pm
Those preseason magazines are going to have to have a reset before this season starts.

It may be a case of no one actually being ruled ineligible before the season is played.    It is, to paraphrase the saying, better to have played it and lost it in later review, than never to have played it at all, as far as the NCAA goes
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

bkjbearcat

Quote from: The_Iceman on September 24, 2017, 08:26:22 am
It's hard to project Mike Anderson teams in the preseason because these magazines are all about the star players. While I believe Macon and Barford will be studs and average 15+ ppg each, the strength of this team will be the waves of length, talent, and athleticism we can throw at a team throughout the course of a game.

I looked at one today. Had Missouri third. I guess a good recruiting class can do that.
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Corkscrew Johnson

Quote from: batmanfan on September 25, 2017, 10:19:59 am
If I remember right, last year South Carolina was being picked 6-8th in the league in the preseason. Very underrated, and like us has some stud guards coming back.

Experienced guards are critical to success in college basketball.  If you look at Anderson's roster since he arrived at Arkansas, it has been noticeably devoid of dangerous senior guards.  Some of that is due to recruiting, some of that is due to players leaving (pros or transfers), but regardless it is what it is.  You can argue that his most successful season happened to coincide with the year that Madden as a senior started playing like a point guard instead of small forward.  I think Macon and Barford give us something that we haven't experienced in a long time, and I'm optimistic that will translate to success. 

KlubhouseKonnected

I won't be surprised if we have some growing pains early. Hope the chicken littles and dedicated haters of MA amongst us can keep their panties dry while this team figures itself out.
If Auburn is dirty so is Gus. You can't have it both ways. Deal with it.

ErieHog

Quote from: KlubhouseKonnected on October 02, 2017, 02:25:59 pm
I won't be surprised if we have some growing pains early. Hope the chicken littles and dedicated haters of MA amongst us can keep their panties dry while this team figures itself out.

If we don't start out 13-1, they'll be ready to burn the program to the ground.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

KlubhouseKonnected

Quote from: ErieHog on October 02, 2017, 06:56:22 pm
If we don't start out 13-1, they'll be ready to burn the program to the ground.

Many of them will be ready to burn it down whether the first loss comes on the 14th game, the 4th game or the 24th.
If Auburn is dirty so is Gus. You can't have it both ways. Deal with it.

hogsanity

Quote from: ErieHog on October 02, 2017, 06:56:22 pm
If we don't start out 13-1, they'll be ready to burn the program to the ground.

If they get through the ooc with 9 or 10 wins that will be pretty good. That is a solid ooc schedule and we don't know how tough the 2nd and 3rd games will be in the p80, could be 2 more hard games.
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ErieHog

Quote from: hogsanity on October 03, 2017, 04:46:03 pm
If they get through the ooc with 9 or 10 wins that will be pretty good. That is a solid ooc schedule and we don't know how tough the 2nd and 3rd games will be in the p80, could be 2 more hard games.

Oh, without a doubt.  But you mention that, and you are an Anderson Apologist.  We've seen that for years now--  talking about the relative merits of the teams played has little bearing on what such people demand.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

Dominicanhog

Quote from: hogsanity on October 03, 2017, 04:46:03 pm
If they get through the ooc with 9 or 10 wins that will be pretty good. That is a solid ooc schedule and we don't know how tough the 2nd and 3rd games will be in the p80, could be 2 more hard games.

sounds about right...

FATHAWG08

If our guards play up to what is expected this team will suprise a lot of people.Great guard play has been the difference for the Top Teams in the tournament. I expect a very good year for the Hogs. I also expect a good start to the season.
I love off season Football!!

HoopS

Quote from: ErieHog on October 03, 2017, 04:59:58 pm
Oh, without a doubt.  But you mention that, and you are an Anderson Apologist.  We've seen that for years now--  talking about the relative merits of the teams played has little bearing on what such people demand.
those people don't deserve the attention they seek by making such stupid comments. People who know their stuff understand this schedule will be tough.

Smithian

Picked up Athlon and they have Hogs picked #7 in conference.

I understand we lost Kingsley but I don't get the lack of expectations for the Hogs. We return a pair of guards who came on strong late and we have some experienced depth. I don't expect Gafford to replicate Kingsley, but if he puts together even a respectable freshman year and gives us even respectable rim protection then the Hogs will be a tough out.

I really expect Macon and Barford to take a second year jump. I could especially see Barford going off.

I think the magazines are weighted heavily toward big time freshman classes and the Hogs class doesn't jump off the page.

hogfan14

Quote from: Smithian on October 15, 2017, 09:29:57 am
Picked up Athlon and they have Hogs picked #7 in conference.

I understand we lost Kingsley but I don't get the lack of expectations for the Hogs. We return a pair of guards who came on strong late and we have some experienced depth. I don't expect Gafford to replicate Kingsley, but if he puts together even a respectable freshman year and gives us even respectable rim protection then the Hogs will be a tough out.

I really expect Macon and Barford to take a second year jump. I could especially see Barford going off.

I think the magazines are weighted heavily toward big time freshman classes and the Hogs class doesn't jump off the page.

I think most don't look at anything other than Barford and Macon

nwahogfan1

Quote from: rzrbkman on September 23, 2017, 08:36:32 am
If this was any other team, besides Arkansas, and I was looking at the roster/bio/returning players and incoming players, I would not be confident on the potential inside game, at this point.

You are right on inside scoring unless one of our senior bigs really worked hard on their scoring we will get little out them.  Gafford will help with put backs and transition baskets.  I am hoping for 10- 12 ppg/rpg from those 4 bigs.  I can see several 3s playing minutes at the 4 to help with scoring and pressure D..

HoopS

Assuming Cook plays - we have 3 of our 4 bigs back and are bringing in Gafford.

If I were scouting our competition, I'd note the above and think they'd have a good chance to be pretty solid inside.

GuvHog

Quote from: nwahogfan1 on October 15, 2017, 03:07:40 pm
You are right on inside scoring unless one of our senior bigs really worked hard on their scoring we will get little out them.  Gafford will help with put backs and transition baskets.  I am hoping for 10- 12 ppg/rpg from those 4 bigs.  I can see several 3s playing minutes at the 4 to help with scoring and pressure D..

The inside game is really a mystery. Mike is not one to start both Thompson and Gafford so Thompson will likely start making him the tallest player on the court at 6'9". Gafford will come off of the bench to relieve Thompson but he's not ready to assume a main roll just yet. That's why the Hogs are not ranked very high in the SEC.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

mhuff

If Thompson and Gafford don't play together, CMA will miss the boat again. I do look for them to be on the floor together. Thompson passes the ball too well and shoots well in the paint. Wait and see.

Hogs not ranked very high because there's too many new faces. Takes time to develop chemistry.

mhuff

Quote from: KlubhouseKonnected on October 02, 2017, 02:25:59 pm
I won't be surprised if we have some growing pains early. Hope the chicken littles and dedicated haters of MA amongst us can keep their panties dry while this team figures itself out.

Defense and scoring in the paint gonna tell the tale.

mhuff

Quote from: HoopS on September 22, 2017, 04:09:07 pm
I think there's some hidden improvement some aren't factoring in with potential of defense on the ball from Hannah's minutes and scoring from Manny's minutes. Trey and Gafford need to produce to somewhat offset losing MK. But the potential for some gains is there in a few areas. Need CJ to become a consistent threat outside and I think he will. Need an uptick out of the PF's and including Bailey and I also think that's gonna happen. Bailey showed late what he could bring. Strictly looking at his PPG won't impress magazine writers but we saw something late that should excite us.

I agree that we will likely win fewer games but may actually end up stronger.

Agree with what you've said and would add with change of personnel an expectation of more points on turnovers. Also, I believe I read recently that MA said Thompson was one of the best 3p shooters on the team.

HoopS

Quote from: mhuff on October 15, 2017, 06:10:44 pm
Agree with what you've said and would add with change of personnel an expectation of more points on turnovers. Also, I believe I read recently that MA said Thompson was one of the best 3p shooters on the team.
I heard him say it.

Letsroll1200

Quote from: mhuff on October 15, 2017, 06:10:44 pm
Agree with what you've said and would add with change of personnel an expectation of more points on turnovers. Also, I believe I read recently that MA said Thompson was one of the best 3p shooters on the team.

Thomas