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kelly or storey???

Started by Cavosea1, March 22, 2017, 10:35:30 am

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Hawgar The Horrible

Quote from: 12247 on March 22, 2017, 05:05:02 pm
If the future can be based on the past and it usually can be, neither QB will be even looked at as the starter as we have a starter who will not be challenged.  The #2 Guy will be decided on a very small amount of information and then will not be prepared for the up coming season.  So, in my opinion, Ty will transfer after Spring training and not wait until 2 weeks before the first game.  He has seen this story play out right before his eyes twice so far so why wait. 

Cole will be #2 by default if nothing else.  He will see the field in mop up duty, nothing serious, may get to throw it a time or 2, you know, very safe passes.  Mostly will get a bit of waste time off the clock duty so Mom and Dad can see him on the field.

Once again, if the Austin should get hurt, we are screwed and there is no need for that.  And yeah, I know, us being poor ole Arkansaw, we just can't get any serious second teamers, so short of Austin playing on crutches, he gives us the best chance to win.  Yada, yada, yada.  Same song, 5th verse.

1.) Neither will be looked upon as a starter because the most experienced and one the top QB's in the SEC returns for the Hogs this season.

2.) The #2 guy will be determined by how well he performs in the film room, takes command of the offense and following hundreds of offseason snaps. Very small amount of information? Bull.

3.) If Ty transfers, guess what? He is not up to the challenge and will be telling the entire Razorback Nation HE believes Kelley is the better QB. The competition for the backup QB spot is over.

4.) Kelley #2 by default? That can't be true. The more experienced QB ALWAYS gets the nod under CBB. Or did you forget?

5.) Teammates nicknamed Kelley "The Franchise" as a true freshman last year, yet according to you we're screwed if Austin goes down. Yeah, what do they know?

6.) If the future can be based on the past and it usually can be, your next post will be just as uniformed. And there is no need for that.
There are fans and there are supporters. The latter carries the weight.

colbs

Quote from: 12247 on March 22, 2017, 05:05:02 pm
If the future can be based on the past and it usually can be, neither QB will be even looked at as the starter as we have a starter who will not be challenged.  The #2 Guy will be decided on a very small amount of information and then will not be prepared for the up coming season.  So, in my opinion, Ty will transfer after Spring training and not wait until 2 weeks before the first game.  He has seen this story play out right before his eyes twice so far so why wait. 

Cole will be #2 by default if nothing else.  He will see the field in mop up duty, nothing serious, may get to throw it a time or 2, you know, very safe passes.  Mostly will get a bit of waste time off the clock duty so Mom and Dad can see him on the field.

Once again, if the Austin should get hurt, we are screwed and there is no need for that.  And yeah, I know, us being poor ole Arkansaw, we just can't get any serious second teamers, so short of Austin playing on crutches, he gives us the best chance to win.  Yada, yada, yada.  Same song, 5th verse.
I would guess this is probably similar with most programs. 

 

hawginbigd1

Quote from: bennyl08 on March 22, 2017, 01:46:28 pm
He is by far the least mobile qb we have and would be the least mobile guy we have had since Mallett. Having said that, I would argue that Mallett was decently mobile. Sure, he was a statue that would lose a race to the likes of Kirkland, but he had great pocket presence and was able to side step and maneuver in the pocket just enough so that the first guy to get pressure almost never made the sack. Judging by Kelley's HS tape, he is significantly slower than Wilson was, at best a step or two faster than Mallett as far as speed goes.

So, the point I'm making is, he was able to get yards running in HS, but you watch his highlights and that doesn't even remotely translate to the college level, much less the SEC. His running threat isn't going to be a concern for anybody. However, that doesn't really matter. So long as he has good pocket awareness, he can still buy some extra time to make the throw. If t he lane is there, even Mallett can run and pick up 8 yards or so to get the first down. He has even been the leading rusher in a game or two in the NFL because of that.
I agree with a lot of your thoughts but Mallett's pocket presence is horrible, one of his biggest limiting factors in his career right ahead of short touch.

bennyl08

Quote from: hawginbigd1 on March 23, 2017, 12:41:42 pm
I agree with a lot of your thoughts but Mallett's pocket presence is horrible, one of his biggest limiting factors in his career right ahead of short touch.

What did he do poorly in the pocket as far as presence went and what would he have done better? Give me some details on your thoughts. Just saying you thought it was horrible adds nothing to the conversation. When we say pocket presence, are we talking about the same things? Did he do anything right with his pocket presence? What exactly did he do poorly? For example...

What I saw was somebody who was very Brady-like as far as pocket movement went. He didn't see ghosts and get scared throwing the ball too soon. He didn't try to run out of the pocket. He would step further in the pocket when it started to collapse from the sides. He was masterful at making just one to three steps to give himself an extra second or two.

His touch was lacking and IMO, that was his greatest weakness. Second was that he wasn't amazing at reading defenses post-snap. He was still very good, but among the better defenses in college, he was able to be tricked with coverages. However, pre-snap, he was by far the best I've ever been witness to as a razorback fan. His third weakness IMO was, like almost anybody or anything, also his greatest strength. His arm and his trust in it. And you need both, hand in hand. It can yield some great throws and can lead to int's.

Side track (of a conversation that's already a sidetrack from the OP), but I think that's been his biggest problem in the NFL. His games in the NFL have been a lot of dump off passes with a lot of touch. High percentage, low risk plays. That's not his game. I don't know if he's being coached to do that or if he is personally overcompensating. However, he just needs to air it out. He's going to throw some picks for sure, particularly early on. But you use those to fine tune his mental thinking. Playing guitar or learning to throw a disc golf disc, yeah, you need to start slower and build speed through practice. However, he already has the physical part down. It's the mental part, and that will come with experience. Look at Stafford as a decent case study. Strong armed qb, threw a lot more picks early on that in his later career. You gotta accept 15-20 interceptions you are going to get, but also the 30 td's and expect an improvement to that ration over time.
Quote from: PorkSoda on May 05, 2016, 09:24:05 pm
damn I thought it was only a color, didn't realize it was named after a liqueur. leave it to benny to make me research the history of chartreuse

hawginbigd1

I don't think he has been in an offense that suits him yet. He hasn't played in a system where they throw the ball down the field. They are all dink and dunk, west coast type systems, Baltimore probably is the best situation he has been in as far as desire to push the ball. His pocket presence/mobility is what I am talking about, Tom Brady isn't as good an athlete as RM but he will take half the sacks and hits that RM would/has in his playing time. That is where his pocket presence is sub-par, and some of it is he will hold the ball too long, but that is part of it.

boaredstiff

March 23, 2017, 05:09:13 pm #55 Last Edit: March 23, 2017, 07:28:57 pm by boaredstiff
I'm new here, and a Hogs fan of many years standing.  If one backup QB should happen to have a slight advantage over another on the mental side of the readiness equation, (a quicker learning aptitude, a bit more poise under pressure and a somewhat better understanding of the playbook) - - and another backup QB should happen to be a bit better in his mechanics and physical assets - - (his throwing strength and/or accuracy, his timing, his footwork, his defense evasion skills and his ability to scramble) - - which one do you think Coach Bielema would favor over the other right off the bat if push came to shove and one of them had to go into a game early on?

I don't feel qualified to voice an opinion in regard to this question; but I'd be interested in hearing your opinions.

bennyl08

Quote from: boaredstiff on March 23, 2017, 05:09:13 pm
I'm new here, and a Hogs fan of many years standing.  If one backup QB should happen to have a shight advantage over another on the mental side of the readiness equation, (a quicker learning aptitude, a bit more poise under pressure and a somewhat better understanding of the playbook) - - and another backup QB should happen to be a bit better in his mechanics and physical assets - - (his throwing strength and/or accuracy, his timing, his footwork, his defense evasion skills and his ability to scramble) - - which one do you think Coach Bielema would favor over the other right off the bat if push came to shove and one of them had to go into a game early on?

I don't feel qualified to voice an opinion in regard to this question; but I'd be interested in hearing your opinions.

Depends on the severity of the injury to the starting qb and the eligibility of the players behind. Based on your description, there isn't a wild disparity between the two quarterbacks and overall, their talents are equal, just with mildly different skill sets.

In that case, if one of the two is a true freshmen who is still eligible for his redshirt, then the coach isn't going to burn the redshirt when he is going to get a similar level of play, just a different style from the older qb so the true freshmen would keep the redshirt on.

Now, in the case of small injury where the starter is only going to be out for a few series or a half a game type of thing, you put in the safer qb (the one with better smarts) who isn't going to hurt your team and you bet on the experienced players around him rather than jeopardize your team by having costly interceptions or fumbles from the slightly more physically talented qb.

Now, lets say the injury is long term. So the backup qb is going to be playing for several games, maybe even the rest of the season. Now the question comes down to other things. What type of team do I have? If we are talking about 2014, I put the smarter qb in no hesitation. I have a good defense and powerful run game to lean on. Putting in a qb that is going to turn the ball over is going to limit my strengths and the receiver play is not currently a strength of a team, so that qb's best aspect will be limited too. In 2015/16, the defense isn't that good so honestly, and interception isn't as costly as it would have been before and the passing game is much more important. So, now it becomes much more important of what exactly is the disparity b/w the two? Is the smart quarterback going to struggle to throw more than 20 yards downfield? Is the physically better quarterback going to have 2 turnovers for every 3 td's or just 1 turnover?

Assuming things are pretty equal still, then you have to ask, who has has received more repetitions in practice? Have they been neck and neck since the summer and both receiving playing time equally or was one demonstrably better than the other early on, but the other has quickly caught up? If the latter, you go with the one who has made the big progression because they are going to be hands down the better quarterback in time if that trend of them improving faster continues.

In 2013, Bielema went with the more accurate and better decision making qb in Allen than the more athletic and stronger armed Mitchell. When BA went down, he put in Derby over Austin to protect the redshirt. In 2014, there was disagreement on whether to put in Austin in the Mizzou game or keep Brandon in there among the coaching staff. In 2015, Austin went in during the OM game, though he was by far the best qb behind BA we had and there was nobody close to threatening Austin. Thus, in 2016, Rafe Ty and Ricky were given a chance, but it was clear early on that Austin was on a whole other level from the others. Rafe was the backup over Ty and Town but Rafe and then Town transferred to get more playing time as is common at most schools.
Quote from: PorkSoda on May 05, 2016, 09:24:05 pm
damn I thought it was only a color, didn't realize it was named after a liqueur. leave it to benny to make me research the history of chartreuse

jcbville

The Storey will be Kelly.

boaredstiff

With the major changes on the defensive side of the ball, it will be interesting to see how these Spring scrimmages pan out.  Here's hoping that a backup QB need not be pressed into service - especially early on in the season - except in a mop-up capacity in lopsided contests.

lakecityhog

Benny, I would like to respectfully disagree with you. We tend to NOT give our back-up QB many meaningful reps. We wait longer to put him in and then we tend to simply hand the ball to our RB's with VERY little throwing.

As far as Kelley goes, he may well be the second coming of Joe Ferguson. He may also be the next Peavy or Town. Ya think maybe we should wait until he actually throws a pass in a college game before we hand him any trophies? Too many of our fans put such unreasonable expectations on certain players and if the player simply has a good solid career many deem him a failure. Why? Because of the expectations that we have.

I don't care who runs the team as long as he produces wins. I don't care about his stats as long as he produces wins. I don't care where he came from as long as he produces wins.

Porked Tongue

From last year.

http://www.hogville.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=615668.0

The difference is Kelley(!) is universally recognized as the legit #2 now.

bennyl08

Quote from: lakecityhog on March 23, 2017, 07:39:57 pm
Benny, I would like to respectfully disagree with you. We tend to NOT give our back-up QB many meaningful reps. We wait longer to put him in and then we tend to simply hand the ball to our RB's with VERY little throwing.

As far as Kelley goes, he may well be the second coming of Joe Ferguson. He may also be the next Peavy or Town. Ya think maybe we should wait until he actually throws a pass in a college game before we hand him any trophies? Too many of our fans put such unreasonable expectations on certain players and if the player simply has a good solid career many deem him a failure. Why? Because of the expectations that we have.

I don't care who runs the team as long as he produces wins. I don't care about his stats as long as he produces wins. I don't care where he came from as long as he produces wins.

Not sure where you are disagreeing. I agree we don't rush the backup into mop up duty. When the second stringers come in, they are playing a use as much time as possible offense and get out of here without injury philosophy. I mean, yeah, you are completely correct in that regard.

The only thing in there that seems to go against anything I said is the "we wait longer" comment. Not going to do this again, but previously I made a post describing games where we put the backup qb in due to the score to Bama as well as Petrino years.

In doing so, Bielema puts in the backup qb and other players at the same point in the game as either Saban or Petrino. To many fans, it may seem like the game is well in hand. However, coaches tend to have a more conservative idea of when that is. Up by 20 in the 4th isn't good enough to feel safe putting in the backup qb. Heck, in the thread I did that, somebody was posting that the LSU game in 2014 we should have had the backup qb in there. That is just crazy talk.

The concept of the qb just handing the ball off is also found in virtually every other school, too. About the only times that doesn't happen is if you are looking at a school like Wazzou that forgets that running plays actually exist or if you are putting in the backups in the middle of the third. Which, you better be up by 60 points or better.

At the end of the day, if you are to the point you are putting in the backups in a real game, then the experience your backups are getting is less than what they get in practice, but with a much higher risk of injury. It would be like training to box and sparring with Jermaine Taylor 5 days a week for months on end and then fighting a drunk fratboy on a stage in front of a leaving crowd. You aren't going to get any good fighting experience in that scenario and the experience of playing in front of a crowd is largely diminished as well.
Quote from: PorkSoda on May 05, 2016, 09:24:05 pm
damn I thought it was only a color, didn't realize it was named after a liqueur. leave it to benny to make me research the history of chartreuse

Paul

Quote from: BloodRedHog on March 22, 2017, 01:05:33 pm
Would like to see a Russell Wilson, Jalen Hurst-type QB at some point.
Gives the defense headaches.
Bohanon

 

Jackrabbit Hog

I seem to recall Brandon Allen being thrust into action his freshman year, and from what we saw our fanbase felt he would never be any good.  The little we saw of Ty last year reminded me of that, so I certainly haven't given up hope on him.

There's a certain comfort level that comes with knowing you are the guy.  I'd bet that if Ty is ever told it's his job, we would see a more confident player.
Quote from: JIMMY BOARFFETT on June 29, 2018, 03:47:07 pm
I'm sure it's nothing that a $500 retainer can't fix.  Contact JackRabbit Hog for payment instructions.

ChitownHawg

Quote from: Jackrabbit Hog on March 24, 2017, 08:06:41 am
I seem to recall Brandon Allen being thrust into action his freshman year, and from what we saw our fanbase felt he would never be any good.  The little we saw of Ty last year reminded me of that, so I certainly haven't given up hope on him.

There's a certain comfort level that comes with knowing you are the guy.  I'd bet that if Ty is ever told it's his job, we would see a more confident player.

Good point. I remember CBB saying something similar about why he chose AA so quickly. He wanted AA to feel it was his team.

I hope TS and CK enjoy the battle and help raise each of their game.
PonderinHog: "My mother gave me a framed cross-stitch picture that reads, "You can tell a Hog fan, but you can't tell him much.  Go Hogs!" It's a blessing and a curse."  :razorback:

Klamath River Hog: " Is your spell check made in India?"

Mr. Barnett (rbarnet424)

Quote from: Jackrabbit Hog on March 24, 2017, 08:06:41 am
I seem to recall Brandon Allen being thrust into action his freshman year, and from what we saw our fanbase felt he would never be any good.  The little we saw of Ty last year reminded me of that, so I certainly haven't given up hope on him.

There's a certain comfort level that comes with knowing you are the guy.  I'd bet that if Ty is ever told it's his job, we would see a more confident player.

same thing happened to Tyler Wilson... how he couldn't even take a snap off center as he would fumble constantly.

Nobody thought much of him until that Auburn game in 2010
PanamaHOG
Representing the Razorbacks down in PTY

goodguytex

Quote from: Mr. Barnett (rbarnet424) on March 24, 2017, 11:04:08 am
same thing happened to Tyler Wilson... how he couldn't even take a snap off center as he would fumble constantly.

Nobody thought much of him until that Auburn game in 2010
Without looking it up, any of you remember Tyler's first game action? I do.

PorkRinds

Quote from: bennyl08 on March 22, 2017, 01:56:32 pm
As for the OP, it is very likely going to be Kelley.

I think a lot of razorback fans undersell Ty Storey. From what I've seen of him, he does have about the mobility of Wilson and a stronger arm along with very good footwork and ability to throw under pressure. However, Kelley had the best arm on campus the second he stepped foot and that is the most important factor for a qb. From the coaches talk last summer/fall, Kelley isn't just a qb with a rocket arm, but is also very coachable and will continue the tradition of our starting qb's getting drafted dating back to 2009. I love that that statistic includes AJ Derby who started for us for a game. Austin hasn't officially been drafted but considering he is the 8th best returning player in the SEC according to PFF, it would be an major shock if he wasn't. Only thing hurting him is his height.

Ty has everything you physically need to be a starting SEC qb. Assuming that Cole does in fact get the backup spot, I don't think Ty transfers yet. He is just a RS So this coming season. I'd guess he sticks around, and sees what happens in the spring. However, if he is unable to win the starting spot there, then this guy has too much talent to be a backup his whole career, and he would deserve to transfer somewhere else and get to start. However, to get the 2 years, he'd have to drop down a division as I understand. So, there is definitely potential for him to think about a transfer this summer if he doesn't like his position on the depth chart where he could transfer to another major school, sit out a year, and still have 2 seasons to start.

If Ty isn't it the back up going into fall camp look for him to transfer. From what I've heard directly from someone as close to him as you can get, he loves the hogs and Fayetteville. He has no hard feelings about the chances he's been given. But if he sees the writing on the wall he will go somewhere that he can have a chance to be the starter.

Jackrabbit Hog

Quote from: PorkRinds on March 24, 2017, 12:12:18 pm
If Ty isn't it the back up going into fall camp look for him to transfer. From what I've heard directly from someone as close to him as you can get, he loves the hogs and Fayetteville. He has no hard feelings about the chances he's been given. But if he sees the writing on the wall he will go somewhere that he can have a chance to be the starter.

And if that's the case, I wouldn't blame him and would wish him well.
Quote from: JIMMY BOARFFETT on June 29, 2018, 03:47:07 pm
I'm sure it's nothing that a $500 retainer can't fix.  Contact JackRabbit Hog for payment instructions.

Porked Tongue

Ty won't be the backup unless there is an injury.

12247

Gentlemen, you can certainly bash my post but who the hell have we had as an experienced #2 QB since BB has been the coach.  We lost our #2 his first year as HC here late in the fall and subbed in Derby, I believe was his name.  This past season our #2 walked late also.  The other 2 seasons Austin was the backup and he reached starters status with very damn little experience.  What gives you folks good reason to believe this season will be any different.

I hope we do find the time to create at second team here in year 5 but I doubt it will happen.  Having time is not the problem, giving a darn is the problem.  We do not value having experience in the 2s as that does not appear that important to our HC.

factchecker

Quote from: 12247 on March 24, 2017, 06:35:31 pm
the fall and subbed in Derby, I believe was his name.

You forgot who A.J. Derby was?  Thank god A.J. listened to reason and moved to tight end his last season here:



Now he's making pretty good money in the NFL.
WORK FOR IT
PLAN ON IT
EARN IT
OMAHOGS

factchecker

Just for kicks let's check how the QB's who left the program ended up doing?

Brandon Mitchell - transfer to NC State: 86/151 for 1011 yards, 7 TDs, and 6 INTs

Rafe Peavey - transfer to SMU: no stats as he sat out last season.  He will be in a battle with sophomore Ben Hicks who threw for 2930 yards, 19 TDs, and 15 INTs last season (as a true freshman).  Hicks threw for 228 yards, 3 TDs, and 0 INTs in an upset victory over Houston last season.  One thing that will help Peavey is mobility.  I'm not sure how elusive Hicks is.

Ricky Town - transfer to Ventura Juco..... good luck.

Damon "Duwop" Mitchell - was a great team player for us.  He was willing to move positions but just couldn't break into the rotation.  He transferred to Rutgers.  He is currently listed at wide receiver on their roster but I've heard that he might move to defense.
WORK FOR IT
PLAN ON IT
EARN IT
OMAHOGS

bennyl08

Quote from: 12247 on March 24, 2017, 06:35:31 pm
Gentlemen, you can certainly bash my post but who the hell has any college had as an experienced #2 QB since apart from experience due to injury?  Teams often lost their #2 after a qb battle for the starting position late in the fall and subbed. I am clearly not much a hog fan since I can't remember NFL drafted players for the hogs from just a few seasons ago even.  This past season the #2 walked late also after losing the battle for the starting position just like most any other school that actually has talented backups.  The other schools also have the backup reach starters status with very damn little experience.  What gives you folks good reason to believe this season will be any different?

I hope we do find the time to create at second team here in year 5 but I doubt it will happen since I literally can't point to any other school that does what I want to happen. Even Petrino didn't put in the backup qb till very late and just him hand off the ball most of the time.  Having time is a big problem, not giving a darn is not the problem.  We do value having experience in the 2s as that is appear that important to our HC, but like every single other head coach, winning is even more important and we aren't going to put in the backup players just for ships and giggles but will put in the backup qb when the game is fully out of reach.

FIFY

Okay, I will give you that Nutt was very adept at having experienced backup quarterbacks. I'm sure he is who we should be looking to for qb development. Spurrier did a great job of tearing his qb's confidence by having them on a short leash and regularly yanking them from games. Les Mile's Jordan Jefferson/Jarrett Lee combo did get them to a championship, but their passing game scared nobody. Sumlin has also done a good job of making sure more than one qb has experience, but for some unbeknownst reason he just can't build any qb depth.
Quote from: PorkSoda on May 05, 2016, 09:24:05 pm
damn I thought it was only a color, didn't realize it was named after a liqueur. leave it to benny to make me research the history of chartreuse

 

goodguytex

Quote from: 12247 on March 24, 2017, 06:35:31 pm
Gentlemen, you can certainly bash my post but who the hell have we had as an experienced #2 QB since BB has been the coach.  We lost our #2 his first year as HC here late in the fall and subbed in Derby, I believe was his name.  This past season our #2 walked late also.  The other 2 seasons Austin was the backup and he reached starters status with very damn little experience.  What gives you folks good reason to believe this season will be any different.

I hope we do find the time to create at second team here in year 5 but I doubt it will happen.  Having time is not the problem, giving a darn is the problem.  We do not value having experience in the 2s as that does not appear that important to our HC.
I think some of you are way too worried about the backup position right now. With Enos as our OC, I feel very confident he will have whoever is in the lead for starter when Austin's time is up to be ready.

Enos has already proven that. Austin is living breathing proof of that.

Hawgar The Horrible

I'm out. Waaaay too much stupidity on this board for my taste. Going to forward my bill from WholeHogSports to that idiot 12247.
There are fans and there are supporters. The latter carries the weight.

HossHog

Quote from: hawganatic on March 22, 2017, 12:23:07 pm
Think a better question is what does the coaching staff do if Kelly outperforms AA in the spring?  Do you go with the best player? Or the experienced player? 

Hypothetical of course.  Haven't seen Kelly play so have no idea where his skillset is at right now.
Considering Austin Allen led something like 3 or 4 comeback wins I would go with him. Also i know you said hypothetical but it would be hard for Kelly to outperform Allen because I believe Allen is top 3 qb's in SEC

Cinco de Hogo

Quote from: PorkRinds on March 24, 2017, 12:12:18 pm
If Ty isn't it the back up going into fall camp look for him to transfer. From what I've heard directly from someone as close to him as you can get, he loves the hogs and Fayetteville. He has no hard feelings about the chances he's been given. But if he sees the writing on the wall he will go somewhere that he can have a chance to be the starter.

Your info is good, hope it don't happen but that's the way of the qb position. 

12247

Aw Hawgar, You may not remember how we were forced to play Brandon when he was hurt just because our #2 didn't give us a chance in hell of winning.  That happened in 2 different seasons as I remember.  We were worried this past season if Austin got hurt, how bad off that we would be. 

BUT,  it is still opinion and if your opinion is that is not a problem, you are entirely entitled to your opinion.  Oh yeah, and I am entitled to my opinion.

WilsonHog

March 25, 2017, 05:01:27 pm #79 Last Edit: March 25, 2017, 05:15:40 pm by WilsonHog
The quarterback position is unlike any other. I believe in the old adage, "If you have two quarterbacks, you really don't have one."

I want a quarterback who everyone else on the team looks at and thinks, "THAT is our guy, our leader."

I want a quarterback who KNOWS he is the man, and feels no need to look over his shoulder every time he makes a poor read.

I don't want a situation where a bunch of keyboard jockeys gin up a quarterback controversy every time the starter throws a pick or his backup completes two passes in a row.

My hope for the coming season is that Austin takes virtually every snap and that next spring Cole and Daulton can compete for the starting spot.

logic

 Per Bielema Aug 24, 2016:
http://247sports.com/Article/Bret-Bielema-talks-Rafe-Peavey-announces-other-transfers-46940098

Redshirt freshman Ty Storey has won the backup job behind Austin Allen, while true freshman Cole Kelley is third-string.

"I would say that Ty has had his best camp by far," Bielema said. "He's throwing the ball extremely well. He just manages the situation very well. He handles the huddle, handles the reaction, handles the situations very well."

factchecker

WORK FOR IT
PLAN ON IT
EARN IT
OMAHOGS

tophawg19

Quote from: WilsonHog on March 25, 2017, 05:01:27 pm
The quarterback position is unlike any other. I believe in the old adage, "If you have two quarterbacks, you really don't have one."

I want a quarterback who everyone else on the team looks at and thinks, "THAT is our guy, our leader."

I want a quarterback who KNOWS he is the man, and feels no need to look over his shoulder every time he makes a poor read.

I don't want a situation where a bunch of keyboard jockeys gin up a quarterback controversy every time the starter throws a pick or his backup completes two passes in a row.

My hope for the coming season is that Austin takes virtually every snap and that next spring Cole and Daulton can compete for the starting spot.
problem with that is your guy could be laying on the field hurt on any snap . and no experienced back up could wreck the season
if you ain't a hawg you ain't chitlins

logic

Quote from: tophawg19 on March 26, 2017, 08:20:06 am
As I recall a two QB system worked very well when in certain situations Darren McFadden played QB.

1highhog

Quote from: Dwillhog66 on March 22, 2017, 10:38:58 am
Hopefully neither of them see any meaningful action!

I hope one of them sees quite a bit of action in mop up duty in some games and not be just handing the ball off either.  Dang it, we need to enter the next season after Allen leaves with a QB who has seen enough action to actually have and idea of what it's like playing College football, not just how to kneel with 45 seconds remaining.  I'd like to see at least 3 or 4 games this year to where we can start the 4th quarter with a 2nd string QB and let him run the Offense, running, throwing, handing off the ball, the whole shooting match.

bennyl08

Quote from: 1highhog on March 27, 2017, 04:14:06 pm
I hope one of them sees quite a bit of action in mop up duty in some games and not be just handing the ball off either.  Dang it, we need to enter the next season after Allen leaves with a QB who has seen enough action to actually have and idea of what it's like playing College football, not just how to kneel with 45 seconds remaining.  I'd like to see at least 3 or 4 games this year to where we can start the 4th quarter with a 2nd string QB and let him run the Offense, running, throwing, handing off the ball, the whole shooting match.

How soon the second stringers come in depends on how well the first stringers do.

However, I can't think of a single coach that doesn't play a run out the clock offense in such a situation. Can you go through and point any out? Petrino was as pass happy as we've probably ever been as a team and he also went to the run the clock offense when in a blowout.
Quote from: PorkSoda on May 05, 2016, 09:24:05 pm
damn I thought it was only a color, didn't realize it was named after a liqueur. leave it to benny to make me research the history of chartreuse

factchecker

Quote from: bennyl08 on March 27, 2017, 04:18:49 pm
run the clock offense when in a blowout.

National media would rip us and Bielema apart if we started passing in a blowout (even with the backups).

Heck, most of the realist Hog "fans" would be the first to say it was classless.
WORK FOR IT
PLAN ON IT
EARN IT
OMAHOGS

bennyl08

Quote from: factchecker on March 27, 2017, 04:25:24 pm
National media would rip us and Bielema apart if we started passing in a blowout (even with the backups).

Heck, most of the realist Hog "fans" would be the first to say it was classless.

Not to mention that the argument for having the team pass is to get some really experience playing college football. Never mind that in such a blowout, the quality of experience the qb would be getting is much less than they get in practice day in and day out.
Quote from: PorkSoda on May 05, 2016, 09:24:05 pm
damn I thought it was only a color, didn't realize it was named after a liqueur. leave it to benny to make me research the history of chartreuse

Carl Lazlo

Whatever.  When they put TS in against Alcorn St he made them look like the Denver Broncos defense.

Dwillhog66

Quote from: 1highhog on March 27, 2017, 04:14:06 pm
I hope one of them sees quite a bit of action in mop up duty in some games and not be just handing the ball off either.  Dang it, we need to enter the next season after Allen leaves with a QB who has seen enough action to actually have and idea of what it's like playing College football, not just how to kneel with 45 seconds remaining.  I'd like to see at least 3 or 4 games this year to where we can start the 4th quarter with a 2nd string QB and let him run the Offense, running, throwing, handing off the ball, the whole shooting match.

Development is done in practice. Barring an injury to AA our backup will not see much action and the time he does see will mostly be handoff duties.
AA saw very little time as a backup and he has done a fantastic job. I expect we'll see the same from his replacement.
The concern people have with the backup QBs playing time is vastly overrated when it comes development based on what I've seen in my time watching football.

bennyl08

Just for the record's sake, here's what Tyler Wilson's career trajectory looked like.

2008: vs Bama: down 42-7 in the fourth quarter with a starting qb who has barely completed 50% of his passes, for less than 5 ypa, and thrown 3 interceptions to just 1 td, Wilson comes in. Here, yes, most every coach will run the full offense as they are seeing what else they have at qb.
vs Texas: down 38-3, Casey Dick gets sacked, fumbles the ball, and has to be reviewed for concussion/injury. Wilson comes in. It's early in the third quarter.
-mysterious case of Mono grants Wilson a medical redshirt...

2009: Mizz St: Up 41-10 late in the third quarter, Wilson comes in. Wilson plays for 3 drives, first drive fizzles quickly, 2nd drive is at the start of the 4th, most other starters still in, balanced drive for a td. 3rd drive is the handoff game.
@Bama: down 35-7, 4 minutes left in game, backup allowed to air it out to see what happens.
EMU: score is 56-20, and Mallett still played through the third quarter. Wilson didn't come in until 11 minutes left, mostly handed the ball off, some passes on third downs or when they got really behind schedule.

2010: Tenn Tech: Wilson comes in in the  last minute of the third, up 44-3. Hands off twice, gets a first. Incomplete pass on first down, then a false start, now behind the sticks, throw again, and int. Next drive, run, run, third down pass results in a fumble. Then BM came in for the final drive.
@auburn: we all know what happened there
vs OM: Mallett left in the third quarter with a shoulder injury, Wilson attempts all of 5 passes the whole game in conservative run the clock mode.
vs Vandy: up 49-14, Wilson comes in 8 min left in the fourth. Attempts all of 3 passes, 2 of them on third down, compared to 11 rushes. Also attempted a fourth pass on fourth down that I missed.
vs UTEP: Mallett plays through the 4th quarter until the score is 49-14. Only passes on third down or after penalties, otherwise, is just there to hand the ball off.

So, what's the tally? Well, we have 3 scenarios playing out.
Games we are being blown out: Backup comes in and is allowed to throw, though is 50/50 how much will throw as only 7 attempts vs Bama (compared to the  nearly 40 by Dick) though 15 vs Texas (compared to 13 attempts by Dick).
Games where the starter is injured: Arguably the Texas game belongs here as Wilson took over for Casey mid drive after Casey was sacked. Here, the full offense is usually run as you are still trying to win the game. However, once the game is under control, i.e. the OM game, backup qb goes into hand-off mode.
Games where we are blowing out the other team: Of all the games that Wilson played, There was the one game in 2009 where he was given some "real" experience. Played with some other starters and aired the ball out. Every other example is in hand-off mode.
Quote from: PorkSoda on May 05, 2016, 09:24:05 pm
damn I thought it was only a color, didn't realize it was named after a liqueur. leave it to benny to make me research the history of chartreuse

LZH

Bobby Petrino was the best QB coach I've ever seen here. But I'm not so sure that Enos isn't right behind him...and that's some pretty high praise. A lot of improvement from Nutt and Lee's days of "just drop back and find a red jersey to throw to".

Nothing against Ty, but I expect Kelley to be our man. From what I gather he's had some troubles with coverages as well as route trees and the like. Work that out (if he hasn't already) and he could be a real hoss.