A10s going bye bye (removes hat, places over chest)

[OPoraquê]

Thanks to you military guys for serving our country.

Heard today that, with cuts to our armed forces proposed, the A10s are likely to be phased out.  I'm NOT a military expert, and know that those planes are nearly 40 years old and likely have better replacements.

But I'm guessing many innocent lives were saved by those thunderbolts/warthogs striking fear into the hearts of the bad guys.  And how could one hate a total bad(bottom) of a plane with "hog" in its nickname on this particular set of forums?  So long, guys...

[old hog]

  Have to salute the men who flew them. My hats off to them.

[OTTER]

I'll never forget the pictures of the A10 that were taken in Iraq.  The thing was shot to heck, but it got it's crew home.  One tough, dependable plane!  And a mighty fine pilot too.

[KCRazorbackfan]

That was one hell of a plane; a couple of them were at a airshow in Harrison back years ago - they were awesome.  Just like a flying tank.  RIP A-10's.

[pigture perfect]

Tank Killer supreme! They have a roar that sounds like no other. A great great plane for sure.

[alwaysondbigscreen]

Tank Killer supreme! They have a roar that sounds like no other. A great great plane for sure.

and have you seen the bullets it shoots? depleted uranium and the sumbitch had to be 6 inch long

[pigture perfect]

That's what WoCraig Nate and the Apache AH-64 is for.

[Flying Razorback]

Pardon me for asking but what is WoCraig Nate?

Can those replacements perform all the roles the A10 currently serves? 

Not all the roles, but there are a multitude of platforms.  Vipers and Mud Hens have been performing some of the Sandy role combined with new tactics with our helps.  The AH-64s can kill tanks.  A large bunch of mods and new aircraft are re-defining the CAS role the A-10 once filled.

It's a different way of doing things, but there has to be airframe draw downs.  The C-models are going away too along with the KC-10.

And WO Craig is our resident helo fires expert.

[Old Tusk]

The only reason the A 10 is still in service is Congress lacks the balls to close ANG units. The roll of the A 10 ended with the Cold war. If you want to advance capability you have to get rid of old technologies. More than anything , the A 10 has added to the deficit.

[YankHog]

The only reason the A 10 is still in service is Congress lacks the balls to close ANG units. The roll of the A 10 ended with the Cold war. If you want to advance capability you have to get rid of old technologies. More than anything , the A 10 has added to the deficit.

I beg to differ, major factor with over 900 tank kills in the Gulf War, countless others in Iraqi Freedom, fantastic and tough close air support weapon in both iraq and Afghanistan...just google A-10 to see any number of these CAS missions....it's not fast or graceful but gets the job done....everything has it's time, not sure if it's quite done yet......

[Old Tusk]

History says you are wrong. After Vn, the army assumed the close air roll in order to justify a huge increase in attack helicopters. The AF had no real close air aircraft so the army got the roll. The a10 was developed for the purpose of killing Russian armor if they invaded Europe. When the Cold War ended the AF found itself with a plane without a mission. Transfering them to the army since they would be a great close air platform plus the AF wanted the manpower to put into other aircraft was rejected by the army because they were committed to helicopters. AF plans to remove them from the inventory but congress says no because it would cause a base closure. And so it has been ever sense. Not saying that it not a great airplane, but it's time passed a long time ago, and keeping it has been to the detriment of the AF.

[YankHog]

I don't think there was anything in my post that could be considered wrong, just stating that it is still, right now, an extremely effective aircraft with a purpose, realizing everything gets replaced, like the A-10 with the F-35 is it I think?  kind of like the B-52, just too darn good in it's mission to go gently into that good night.

[Ragnar Hogbrok]

Pardon me for asking but what is WoCraig Nate?

Can those replacements perform all the roles the A10 currently serves? 

I'm a WoCraig Nate.  The AH-64D's primary role is destruction of ADA, tanks, and other vehicles.  The Fire Control Radar and Hellfire missile were all designed to do this from at least 3 kilometers away (actually farther, but don't want to put that out on open-source media).

16 Hellfire missiles per aircraft equals 16 dead/destroyed vehicles per aircraft.  Eight aircraft per company, three companies per battalion equals 384 dead/destroyed vehicles per battalion.  All could, theoretically, be killed within a two minute time window.

[Old Tusk]

What I'm saying is the only reason it is still in service today is politicians not the greatness of the aircraft. 

[YankHog]

you are correct Tusk, always is political.....maybe not the greatness of the aircraft, cost, brac issues, funding for the replacement, politics, all that crap comes into play...

[DevilHog1775]

I'm a WoCraig Nate.  The AH-64D's primary role is destruction of ADA, tanks, and other vehicles.  The Fire Control Radar and Hellfire missile were all designed to do this from at least 3 kilometers away (actually farther, but don't want to put that out on open-source media).

16 Hellfire missiles per aircraft equals 16 dead/destroyed vehicles per aircraft.  Eight aircraft per company, three companies per battalion equals 384 dead/destroyed vehicles per battalion.  All could, theoretically, be killed within a two minute time window.

How many times have you actually flown with 16 Hellfire missiles on a soritey? I know thats its capability but with eng gpa and max takeoff in desert conditions how often does that happen?

[Flying Razorback]

How many times have you actually flown with 16 Hellfire missiles on a soritey? I know thats its capability but with eng gpa and max takeoff in desert conditions how often does that happen?

If we are launching sorties like that we're probably not in the desert.  That's a Fulda Gap scenario.

The point being we have ways to close the capability gap left by the A-10.

[DevilHog1775]

Cool just currious, I know the AH-64 is pure beast but I am a skid kid with experience on AH-1W/UH-1N/ 1Z-1Y PLATFORM.

Like i said just didnt know what the situation would be, mabey 10 years ago, new in country, not degraded. Also I know that the wars havnt been as hot since 2005 etc harder for clearance and lower sorities.

[Ragnar Hogbrok]

How many times have you actually flown with 16 Hellfire missiles on a soritey? I know thats its capability but with eng gpa and max takeoff in desert conditions how often does that happen?

I haven't because we are filling the Close Combat Attack role.  There's no reason for us to carry that type of load.  In Afghanistan, we couldn't carry that with the D model.  The new E model will solve all of our weight limit woes, and we'll be able to employ that load worldwide in a deliberate attack role.

[TeufelHog]

"Flying Razorbacks" . . . A-10 Style!

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[Flying Razorback]

From the FY15 Budget Request today on the A-10 retirement:

The A-10C does not possess the necessary
survivability to remain viable in contested environments.
Additionally, fiscal constraints required the Air Force to
prioritize multi-role legacy over single mission platforms.
Therefore, the Air Force will begin retiring the A-10 fleet
in FY 2015 to focus available funding on more survivable
multi-role platforms.

http://www.saffm.hq.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-140304-039.pdf

[bigredone]

It is an intimidating bird. I was fishing at Darby Lake some years ago and saw a flight of these swoop down around Potato Hill and when they let loose with the gun it shook me miles away.

[TeufelHog]

Even better . . .

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[Old Tusk]

DOD has offered an alternative to retiring the A 10. It is all the  B 1s and an additional block of F15s.

[Pork Twain]

There is no flying machine that can offer the type of CAS that the A-10 can offer.  They are also wanting to phase out the U-2 without anything to take on all of its roles.  Of course we also have Sr officers and enlisted telling congress that the enlisted forces are okay with taking pay and retirement cuts to fund their programs.  Military logic...