Michigan OL walks Away

[WilsonHog]

Interesting to see how prevalent this becomes.

http://m.espn.go.com/ncf/story?storyId=12555518&i=TWT&w=1ezig

[ricepig]

More and more as the kids/players become aware of the effects of concussions, especially multiple ones.

[onebadrubi]

Interesting to see how prevalent this becomes.

http://m.espn.go.com/ncf/story?storyId=12555518&i=TWT&w=1ezig

Does the current concern and highlight on head injuries make the two guys that have quit stories more elevated?  I think for 99% of collegiate football players, their best pay day would be making the NFL and doing for the tenure to receive health benefits forever.  If they weigh those risk and it isn't worth making it and they are satisfied with what career opportunities are in front of them, then great for them!  For some (possible more than we know) football is the only way they can make a living legally and above poverty level. 

[Calling All Hogs]

As the level of awareness of the possibility of permanent damage increases, the HUNH offensives may become much less appealing to recruits. 

[carolinahogger]

I think for 99% of collegiate football players, their best pay day would be making the NFL and doing for the tenure to receive health benefits forever.

Health care coverage and good health are not the same thing.

[wholehog92]

Health care coverage and good health are not the same thing.

Very much.  I turned down preferred walk on simply because I knew I was too small and would be injured often just from practice.  I was already limping from HS football.  Your health is something you live with your whole life.  If you take stock in it and see your current path is taking you somewhere you don't want to live, you take steps to change your path.  Concussions, knee problems, whatever.

[k.c.hawg]

I am friends with quite a few former Chiefs players of varying age. I can say being at some events with them are eye opening at the least. Guys in their 50's that look like they are in their 70's when they walk in. I know several in their 40's that have had knees and hips replaced. None of them have ever told me they regret playing.

We left a party one night where there were probably 40 former players there and maybe 10 of the younger ones appeared to have relatively healthy bodies. I told my wife, wow I've never been with such a large collection of people that had something so strange in common. Mangled hands, cripple, constant pain, shoulders, neck, knees, hips, joint replacements. I asked my wife, "I wonder if I will feel different next Sunday at the stadium watching the Chiefs get it on with the Seahawks?" Well I didn't.

It all comes down to what we are willing to do or are capable of doing to make a living. I've thought back over the years to someone I knew or someone I saw that was broken down because of their work. Tile layers, carpet layers, brick layers, concrete workers all with bad backs, bad joints, guys that work outside having skin cancer removed, guys that rode the trains that were deaf.

Can't blame a young guy for quitting if he's worried about brain damage. Can't blame another guy for overlooking the risk to make millions. Thought it was telling to see two long time teammates interviewed side by side about the concussion issue. Will Shields who has managed his money, has very successful businesses and has always stayed ahead of the curve says he would do it all over again and has no regrets. Neil Smith who lost all of his money in bad business ventures, lost his home and is a working man said if I had to do all over again I would not have played in the NFL. I wondered if he would have had a different response if he still had $10-$15 million in investments.

[EastexHawg]

Players quit football all the time, at every level from Pee Wee to the NFL.  Some just don't love it as much as others.  If you are one of those guys right now, "I am concerned about my long term health" probably sounds better when walking away than "I never really loved playing football all that much anyway."

[onebadrubi]

Health care coverage and good health are not the same thing.

That's not what I was saying.  After I think 4 or 5 years, maybe only 3, you get health insurance coverage for Life from the NFL.  That is what I was saying along with the pay might be the only opportunity for many to achieve such pay out and coverages. 

[ricepig]

Players quit football all the time, at every level from Pee Wee to the NFL.  Some just don't love it as much as others.  If you are one of those guys right now, "I am concerned about my long term health" probably sounds better when walking away than "I never really loved playing football all that much anyway."

Or, they may wish to able to walk or think when they reach 40.

[WilsonHog]

I enjoyed playing the game, and loved coaching it. At the end of the day, though, that's all it is: a game. I would never be so presumptuous as to find fault with any player who decided that his health wasn't worth becoming a rich man, and certainly not worth my entertainment.

If you told me that I could be a multi-millionaire, yet not be able to walk properly or think clearly....what the hell good is it?

[onebadrubi]

I enjoyed playing the game, and loved coaching it. At the end of the day, though, that's all it is: a game. I would never be so presumptuous as to find fault with any player who decided that his health wasn't worth becoming a rich man, and certainly not worth my entertainment.

If you told me that I could be a multi-millionaire, yet not be able to walk properly or think clearly....what the hell good is it?

Do you think any of the numbers out now are premature?  I don't believe we quite know how many ex NFL players are having issues and how many are not. 

[RazorPiggie]

Cowherd had a good segment about this topic this morning. He made some very good points.

[jkstock04]

I've gotta say I'm one who thinks this has been blown out of proportion over the past few years. It's like all the sudden some people are surprised that football is a high contact sport with risks. Many people will say it's just a game...not worth it. Lol, well...life itself is a game of sorts.

For most division 1 athletes on a full scholarship, I'm going to assume it's much more than a game...or it should be, if they are looking for it to be an actual career. That's why I disagree when people say it's just a game. It irritated me beyond belief when Matt Jones insinuated the unimportance of winning because it was "just a game." Lol, Ya a game that would send you along to the 1st round of the NFL draft signing on for millions. I'd say that's a bit more important than a game of Candyland with the kids.

Here is something else, there are physical risks Involved with all sorts of professions. Off the top of my head look at people who join the military and what they risk? In life, if you love something and believe in it than you take the risk along with it, that's the way I see it. All this is, is that the past 10-20 years our country has become extremely soft and liberal. Political correctness trumps everything else. Dangers of football is a hot issue right now...especially in the NFL. I don't even have to research it..I can just assume there is $$$$ motivation behind it, just like everything else in this life.

In the end football will be fine. The serious athletes will take the risks because they embrace the rewards. It's a physical contact sport...heads banging together. People are going to get hurt...that's just part of it.

[ldfergu]

As the level of awareness of the possibility of permanent damage increases, the HUNH offensives may become much less appealing to recruits.

What's the difference? Smashmouth football makes you less susceptible to permanent damage?  I'm not even a fan of HUNH, just don't see your point

[WorfHog]

Does the current concern and highlight on head injuries make the two guys that have quit stories more elevated?  I think for 99% of collegiate football players, their best pay day would be making the NFL and doing for the tenure to receive health benefits forever.  If they weigh those risk and it isn't worth making it and they are satisfied with what career opportunities are in front of them, then great for them!  For some (possible more than we know) football is the only way they can make a living legally and above poverty level.

The collegiate system, which should prepare them for a career in something other than football, is a complete failure in a lot of cases.

[Killean]

What's the difference? Smashmouth football makes you less susceptible to permanent damage?  I'm not even a fan of HUNH, just don't see your point

fewer plays means less wear and tear which in turn means longer, healthier careers

[RazorPiggie]

What's the difference? Smashmouth football makes you less susceptible to permanent damage?  I'm not even a fan of HUNH, just don't see your point

Who's more likely to have more leg/foot problems when they are older: the guy who runs 10 miles a day or the one that runs 1?

[EastexHawg]

I know four different women who have suffered with, even died after bouts with, brain disease/dementia.  As far as I know none of them ever played middle linebacker or busted the wedge on kickoff return.

How many men on this board are past the age of 50?  How many of you feel like you've been beaten with a 2x4 when you wake up in the morning...whether you played professional football or not?

Loss of physical prowess and function in middle to old age is not limited to football players.

[Hawgzinbowlz]

With the social awareness spotlight on concussions, any player walking away from the game who attach's 'I'm concerned about my future and possible concussions' will receive high level media attention. We may see a slightly larger percentage of players leave because of concussion concerns but I think we'll still have enough players for High School, lower level college teams, D-1 and the NFL.
I can't blame any player for what ever decisions they make, based upon their priorities.
The only thing I can see that would have a major effect on American Football, as we know it, is if lawsuits started piling up that assessed liability on Schools/NFL Teams regardless of players agreements, prior to playing, that the players were responsible for the ultimate risk. If the Schools/NFL were held responsible for injuries/concussions because of the inherent risks associated with American Football and the players were held to have no responsibility, we may see a major change in the game we enjoy.

" GO HOGS "

[ldfergu]

Who's more likely to have more leg/foot problems when they are older: the guy who runs 10 miles a day or the one that runs 1?

I see what you mean. Still, I'm not convinced there is any correlation between permanent injuries and HUNH

[sickboy]

I've gotta say I'm one who thinks this has been blown out of proportion over the past few years. It's like all the sudden some people are surprised that football is a high contact sport with risks. Many people will say it's just a game...not worth it. Lol, well...life itself is a game of sorts.

For most division 1 athletes on a full scholarship, I'm going to assume it's much more than a game...or it should be, if they are looking for it to be an actual career. That's why I disagree when people say it's just a game. It irritated me beyond belief when Matt Jones insinuated the unimportance of winning because it was "just a game." Lol, Ya a game that would send you along to the 1st round of the NFL draft signing on for millions. I'd say that's a bit more important than a game of Candyland with the kids.

Here is something else, there are physical risks Involved with all sorts of professions. Off the top of my head look at people who join the military and what they risk? In life, if you love something and believe in it than you take the risk along with it, that's the way I see it. All this is, is that the past 10-20 years our country has become extremely soft and liberal. Political correctness trumps everything else. Dangers of football is a hot issue right now...especially in the NFL. I don't even have to research it..I can just assume there is $$$$ motivation behind it, just like everything else in this life.

In the end football will be fine. The serious athletes will take the risks because they embrace the rewards. It's a physical contact sport...heads banging together. People are going to get hurt...that's just part of it.

I don't think it's being blown out of proportion. We just live in a different world than we did 20 years ago. Information is more accessible, so you hear more about it. Plus, studies that have been going on for decades are just starting to show the fruits of their labor.

Not to get all political... but I know about 10 times as much now about global terrorism as I did in the 90's. Used to only hear about rebel groups or big terrorist happenings. Now I can go online and know the names of religious extremist in the Philippines... and know what business they're doing and with whom.

Having more information changes my perspective of the world. Doesn't mean terrorism is being overblown or is any more rampant now than it was 20 years... there's just more information available for me to form my opinion. Same as these guys playing football today. It's only natural.

[Rocky Mountain Living]

Average Football impact is 3 times the g-force of a USAF F-16 Pilot doing a barrel roll at 550 mph


People quitting over their safety:  Definitely a trend gaining more and more momentum

Football is a game that cannot be played safely.   

[oldhawg]

Reminds me of the old days.  Some things never change.  Violence, in some form, will always appeal.

"Though often dismissed as uncivilized brutes by Roman historians, the gladiators won massive fame among the lower classes. Their portraits graced the walls of many public places; children played with gladiator action figures made of clay; and the most successful fighters even endorsed products just like the top athletes of today. They were also renowned for their ability to make Roman women swoon. Graffiti from Pompeii describes one fighter who "catches the girls at night in his net" and another who is "the delight of all the girls." Many women wore hairpins and other jewelry dipped in gladiator blood, and some even mixed gladiator sweat—then considered an aphrodisiac—into facial creams and other cosmetics."


Just trying to add a little levity to a thoughtful topic.

[HF#1]

I still think proper technique is the key to making sure players are healthier after their careers.  Heads up tackling, learning how to fall to the ground, etc....

[daBoar]

Michigan OL walks away
http://m.espn.go.com/ncf/story?storyId=12555518&i=TWT&w=1ezig

I'd like this to happen at Bama

[Karma]

I've gotta say I'm one who thinks this has been blown out of proportion over the past few years. It's like all the sudden some people are surprised that football is a high contact sport with risks. Many people will say it's just a game...not worth it. Lol, well...life itself is a game of sorts.

For most division 1 athletes on a full scholarship, I'm going to assume it's much more than a game...or it should be, if they are looking for it to be an actual career. That's why I disagree when people say it's just a game. It irritated me beyond belief when Matt Jones insinuated the unimportance of winning because it was "just a game." Lol, Ya a game that would send you along to the 1st round of the NFL draft signing on for millions. I'd say that's a bit more important than a game of Candyland with the kids.

Here is something else, there are physical risks Involved with all sorts of professions. Off the top of my head look at people who join the military and what they risk? In life, if you love something and believe in it than you take the risk along with it, that's the way I see it. All this is, is that the past 10-20 years our country has become extremely soft and liberal. Political correctness trumps everything else. Dangers of football is a hot issue right now...especially in the NFL. I don't even have to research it..I can just assume there is $$$$ motivation behind it, just like everything else in this life.

In the end football will be fine. The serious athletes will take the risks because they embrace the rewards. It's a physical contact sport...heads banging together. People are going to get hurt...that's just part of it.

You seem like the type that 50 years ago would have argued that cigarettes aren't that bad for you.

[Iwastherein1969]

Cowherd had a good segment about this topic this morning. He made some very good points.

did Cowherd go off on one of his psychological evaluations based on living in different parts of the country ?   I listen to the guy quite a bit and there's not a day that goes by where Colin is not expounding on regional traditions and attitudes.

[Choctaw Hog]

I see what you mean. Still, I'm not convinced there is any correlation between permanent injuries and HUNH

By the time years of data is in it will be too late for many.  Common sense dictates that more plays = more opportunity for injury.  It's no more complicated than that. 

[PonderinHog]

Reminds me of the old days.  Some things never change.  Violence, in some form, will always appeal.

"Though often dismissed as uncivilized brutes by Roman historians, the gladiators won massive fame among the lower classes. Their portraits graced the walls of many public places; children played with gladiator action figures made of clay; and the most successful fighters even endorsed products just like the top athletes of today. They were also renowned for their ability to make Roman women swoon. Graffiti from Pompeii describes one fighter who "catches the girls at night in his net" and another who is "the delight of all the girls." Many women wore hairpins and other jewelry dipped in gladiator blood, and some even mixed gladiator sweat—then considered an aphrodisiac—into facial creams and other cosmetics."


Just trying to add a little levity to a thoughtful topic.

[Svrdhd]

The information and studies coming to light recently could have a profound effect on contact sports, especially high school and college. In fact I could see some school districts eventually discuss eliminating football. This would be tragic, as the football team, particularly in small towns, is the community's face and soul.
  One suggested solution is an impact sensor in the helmet that determines if a player is on the field or in the locker room after a hit. Takes the subjectivity out of it and looks out for the welfare of the athlete.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

Football is an inherently dangerous game regardless of the number plays. 

[SooiecidetillNuttgone]

Being around vets 24/7, and being one myself, I think that he needs to do whatever his heart tells him.

I'm all sure that you guys have heard the modern analogy that the United States General made about sheep, sheepdogs, and wolves. 

Not everyone is a sheep, nor a sheepdog, nor a wolf.  The sheepdogs and the wolves would truly regret walking away from the game.  The sheep, not so much.

Life is a risk no matter what you do.   I personally have chosen to take risks and live it to the best of my ability.  Some decisions have worked out.  Some haven't.  AT least I won't hit my death bed regretting that all I did in life was shovel poop in Alabama.

Why must this society try to make everyone into sheep?

[EastexHawg]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/03/18/nfl-doctor-says-cte-is-being-over-exaggerated/

[Karma]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/03/18/nfl-doctor-says-cte-is-being-over-exaggerated/

Shocking that an NFL doctor debunks it.

[riccoar]

End concussions, go old school.  How many SS or LB's are going to be blowing somebody up without a helmet?  None. 

[RazorPiggie]

did Cowherd go off on one of his psychological evaluations based on living in different parts of the country ?   I listen to the guy quite a bit and there's not a day that goes by where Colin is not expounding on regional traditions and attitudes.

Not when he was talking about the concussions or players life after football. But did earlier when he was talking about hate mail.

[Rocky Mountain Living]

End concussions, go old school.  How many SS or LB's are going to be blowing somebody up without a helmet?  None. 

I agree....That explains the delta btwn Rugby concussions vs Football concussions.

Once Players lose the helmet....


Players will quit using the most complex structure in the known Universe as a weapon

[Rocky Mountain Living]

You seem like the type that 50 years ago would have argued that cigarettes aren't that bad for you.

+1000

HA....Cigarettes (or Alcohol) are a substance that cannot be ingested safely.

[RD]

Inside of 30 years. Football as we know it will be banned. Boxing will be as well. Anything that promotes violence to the head will be outlawed.

[12247]

Reading this thread shows how most of us will defend what we like or love, no matter the clear truth about the end results.  As for the HUNH, because those teams usually spread the field and unpile the bodies, it may prove to be less stressful on the humans involved than smash mouth up the middle offenses.  At any level, the game of football is hard on the bodies.  95 plus percent of all football players will never get a dime of compensation for playing the game.  I broke a leg in practice.  Still feel that area today when it gets cold.  Just a small indicator of what I was willing to do to PLAY the game.  Couldn't wait to get back in the game as I was a Senior in High School.

Coach allowed me to enter the final game of the season at Safety.  I believe our coach and the opposing coach had a deal whereby I wouldn't get killed out there.  They ran a power sweep and I closed on the ball carrier and was cut down hard by a lead blocker.  I was piled up near the opposing HC.  He ran onto the field and scolded his blocking back for hitting me.  Screaming something about he was told to not hit me low.  Looking back, I could have come out of that game with a limp for life.  At the time, I was soooooooo happy just to get to play a bit my senior year.

[PonderinHog]

I agree....That explains the delta btwn Rugby concussions vs Football concussions.

Once Players lose the helmet....


Players will quit using the most complex structure in the known Universe as a weapon

I've got brains I ain't even bruised yet!

[DeltaBoy]

While I never got one playing football; I did in an accident it pretty scary so I expect us to see more of this.

[Karma]

Inside of 30 years. Football as we know it will be banned. Boxing will be as well. Anything that promotes violence to the head will be outlawed.

I think you are right.  I don't know what it will be, but football as we currently know it won't exist. Or if it does, it will be a minor sport like boxing was become.

[Torqued pork]

My crystal ball says football will continue to be #1 in our lifetime especially in the south.

[SooiecidetillNuttgone]

Reading this thread shows how most of us will defend what we like or love, no matter the clear truth about the end results.  As for the HUNH, because those teams usually spread the field and unpile the bodies, it may prove to be less stressful on the humans involved than smash mouth up the middle offenses.  At any level, the game of football is hard on the bodies.  95 plus percent of all football players will never get a dime of compensation for playing the game.  I broke a leg in practice.  Still feel that area today when it gets cold.  Just a small indicator of what I was willing to do to PLAY the game.  Couldn't wait to get back in the game as I was a Senior in High School.

Coach allowed me to enter the final game of the season at Safety.  I believe our coach and the opposing coach had a deal whereby I wouldn't get killed out there.  They ran a power sweep and I closed on the ball carrier and was cut down hard by a lead blocker.  I was piled up near the opposing HC.  He ran onto the field and scolded his blocking back for hitting me.  Screaming something about he was told to not hit me low.  Looking back, I could have come out of that game with a limp for life.  At the time, I was soooooooo happy just to get to play a bit my senior year.

I get what you're saying.  I think many prob are defending what they love.
What I'm saying though is that I would rather have had the moments, the memories, and the passion than not.  I feel that way about life in general.

Life is a cost analysis, even in  love.   Many people leave a love cause they get out f control with drinking, etc.

For me, the great moments in life outweigh what are ''relatively'' low risks.  For others not so much.  That's ok.  They're built to play it safe, and I'm built to grab life and shake.  I don't want to make them something they're not.  Please respect me with the same.

If you change football too much or start glorifying those who wish to ovestate the dangers (and there def are some) of the game (prob cause it's one of the few bastions of a man's entertainment), then that does begin to tread on many of us.

Better helmets?  Absolutely.  Flags and skirts?  Go try soccer.

[Sueie]

I wonder how many brain injuries they get in MMA.  Football is child's play compared to that "sport".

[hogsanity]

I get what you're saying.  I think many prob are defending what they love.
What I'm saying though is that I would rather have had the moments, the memories, and the passion than not.  I feel that way about life in general.

Life is a cost analysis, even in  love.   Many people leave a love cause they get out f control with drinking, etc.

For me, the great moments in life outweigh what are ''relatively'' low risks.  For others not so much.  That's ok.  They're built to play it safe, and I'm built to grab life and shake.  I don't want to make them something they're not.  Please respect me with the same.

If you change football too much or start glorifying those who wish to ovestate the dangers (and there def are some) of the game (prob cause it's one of the few bastions of a man's entertainment), then that does begin to tread on many of us.

Better helmets?  Absolutely.  Flags and skirts?  Go try soccer.

A lot of it is that technology is helping research into a lot of areas. I mean some on here are old enough to remember when coaches did not let players drink water during practice. If they did that now people would wonder how stupid that coach is.

Better helmets can not stop the problem of the brain slamming into the skull because it is caused by all the sudden stops. It is an injury caused from the inside out. If it was a matter of protecting the outside of the skull, current helmets are great at that already.

I enjoy watching football, and I am pretty sure no one I am watching play is being forced to do so. Do I think they should be well informed of the dangers? Absolutely. I think that information should be available to parents all the way down to pee wee leagues.

My older son played a few years, got his bell rung a couple of times, but enjoyed playing. My younger child, big as a horse, coaches have been after him for football since he was 6, has not played, and said he does not want to play. He plays baseball and basketball, and is making plenty of memories playing those. People act like football is the only sport in which there are lifelong friends and great memories, and that is just not true.

[SooiecidetillNuttgone]

A lot of it is that technology is helping research into a lot of areas. I mean some on here are old enough to remember when coaches did not let players drink water during practice. If they did that now people would wonder how stupid that coach is.

Better helmets can not stop the problem of the brain slamming into the skull because it is caused by all the sudden stops. It is an injury caused from the inside out. If it was a matter of protecting the outside of the skull, current helmets are great at that already.

I enjoy watching football, and I am pretty sure no one I am watching play is being forced to do so. Do I think they should be well informed of the dangers? Absolutely. I think that information should be available to parents all the way down to pee wee leagues.

My older son played a few years, got his bell rung a couple of times, but enjoyed playing. My younger child, big as a horse, coaches have been after him for football since he was 6, has not played, and said he does not want to play. He plays baseball and basketball, and is making plenty of memories playing those. People act like football is the only sport in which there are lifelong friends and great memories, and that is just not true.

Everything you said is true.
All are great points.
Yet somehow you either missed on everything I was saying or I didn't communicate very well.

Helmets, concussions.  I know.  Merely an example on behalf.
Only place for memories.  Check.  Imposing values though is not warranted or wanted.

When the fearmongers and safety queens can provide me with a guaranteed check  that by following their way of life will get me _______________ as a wife, darling kids, a great job, and a long, healthy life, I'll jump on board.   First off though, you'll have to grab a defibrillator to start my heart back up from shock of that EVER being possible.  The people I know (men especially) have miserable existences living the ''safety dance'' lifestyle.
Until then, I'll make as an informed opinion (totally agree with ACCURATE information being publicized) as I can and live MY life.

[EastexHawg]

Shocking that an NFL doctor debunks it.

NFL doctor?  Dr. Maroon is employed by the NFL as part of its medical team, but Dr. McCarthy has no ties to the league as far as we know.

And how about the consensus statement released by doctors who participated in the 4th International Conference on Concussion in Sports?

It was agreed that chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE) represents a distinct tauopathy with an unknown incidence in athletic populations. It was further agreed that CTE was not related to concussions alone or simply exposure to contact sports. At present, there are no published epidemiological, cohort, or prospective studies relating to modern CTE. Due to the nature of the case reports and pathological case series that have been published, it is not possible to determine the causality or risk factors with any certainty. As such, the speculation that repeated concussion or sub-concussive impacts causes CTE remains unproven. The extent to which age-related changes, psychiatric or mental health illness, alcohol/drug use, or co-existing medical or dementing illnesses contribute to this process is largely unaccounted for in the published literature. At present, the interpretation of causation in the modern CTE case studies should proceed cautiously.

http://journals.lww.com/cjsportsmed/Fulltext/2013/03000/Consensus_Statement_on_Concussion_in_Sport_the_4th.1.aspx

Are they all shills for the NFL?