Film Study: Moving Kirkland to left tackle might not yield favorable results

[SECisKing]

Murf don't let any of these people get to you. Look all you said was justifiable. Denver hasn't The deal is we haven't seen enough to know for sure he can't be a great tackle. That sentence right there may have saved you some of this grief.

Pres! My man, nah nobody is getting to me as there has been way too many posters I respect on here to come out and debate it with me civilized. But I did just record an episode of "Ball Hawg" where I was able to let loose a little bit haha..But hey I definitely hear you on that sentence you wrote, but I said this and those people didn't care:

"Let's be clear: I'm not saying Kirkland won't or can't be an effective left tackle. He's a great football player so I'm sure over time he may get better at the position."

And even with that being in the article some dude still said "Why would you say he can't be a LT!!"

I already know some are just going to go into the red without even properly sorting it out. But props to you, bro.

[SECisKing]

I called Ellis as a WLB his freshman season, few agreed though.
That being said, I do agree with you questioning Kirkland's move to LT, as he was insanely dominant at guard. We shall see how he does coming out of spring ball with the move. What I do like seeing Bielema do is attempting to get all of his offensive talent on the field at one time, whereas last year I thought he went more with experience.

Great minds think alike, bro! Good stuff.

[SECisKing]

Again, good stuff SEC. Some on here like it a little more 'simple'...and some like it a lot more 'simple'...and then some like an honest opinion that stirs conversation/debate, and that is exactly what I took from your article. I did not perceive any bashing of DK and your article will have no effect on where he plays next year although it will have some watching his development, along with the entire OL.
Keep up the good work.

" GO HOGS "

That's why you're the man in my eyes! Me and you can talk football any day, HIB!

[presidenthog]

I wish I could have caught you on game on with mike. Love mike Irwin. Probably my favorite sports guy at the moment. But I will catch you on ball hawg. I went on iTunes for you guys as well. Just sent some love out for a bro.

[SECisKing]

I wish I could have caught you on game on with mike. Love mike Irwin. Probably my favorite sports guy at the moment. But I will catch you on ball hawg. I went on iTunes for you guys as well. Just sent some love out for a bro.

You never let me down, Pres! Yeah, I had a blast talking about this Denver Kirkland article with Mike Irwin. You won't find a more knowledgeable person in the game than him. And he's not afraid to say what he feels.

He agreed with me about the premise of it being more of a program-building move opposed to an on-field move. He said he thinks Kirkland can do the job and wouldn't read too much into spring as it's the time to experiment.

We also talked about how he believes the ew RB coach's job is to get Alex Collins to the NFL as he was a high-profile recruit and it will help build the program. I love when writers can see beyond the surface like he does.

It was an honor to co-host his show, honestly, Pres.

[Josh Goforth]

I think I know who this is. Be a man and just say who you are. Are you the author of that article?

Edit: I don't read anyone else's work nor do I pay much attention to what coaches are saying. And I think the silence is answering my question...

Of course I'm the one that wrote that article in January. No hiding, just now found time to check out the hogville insanity. Always appreciate your work.  Not sure what stating that you don't read other articles means. I guess the point would be to not sway your opinion one way or the other.
Calling out someone's manhood? We in Jr high or what? Haha

[SECisKing]

One of the unfortunate things: writers have to write but this is about the worst time of the calendar to write about next year. We are on the cusp of seeing what tinkering is going on...and the results...but have to project that to the next season. Yuck.

The way to address that is to more obviously slant things towards, "here is a move that we should pay attention to - what if it works? what if it doesn't? why do they think it will work?"

I appreciate the link, and the "showing up to respond", not to mention the generally level-headed responses. Kudos. Putting your name next to something is one of the toughest acts for most folks to get (because they work in general anonymity).

Oklahawg, where have you been?

I never thought of it that way, I was honestly just talking ball. Put it this way Okla, this is not uncommon of the type of convos I'd have with my friends. If they come to me to talk about their favorite players I'll give them an assessment and if they agree or disagree they'll state their cases and we'll go back and forth.

But it's all love, ya know?

As far as slanting it the way you stated it, I completely understand that, but I can't write articles a certain way because I'm afraid of some people not linking it. I'm just going to do me, as it's gotten me pretty far in a relative short period of time.

But anyway, this article has now expired and it's time to move on. Didn't see your post to me.

But check out "Ball Hawg" podcast that comes out Monday I believe. We talk to ESPN WPS' Pat Jenkins the recruiting expert about who we should expect impact from in the form of true and redshirt freshmen.

[SECisKing]

This thread is like the definition of Hogville. 

"Someone's opinion is different than mine, his must be wrong!!!" 

Or

"Someone stated an opinion in an article, so let's treat it as 100% FACT!  NO OTHER FACTS MATTER MORE THAN THIS OPINIONFACT!!! EVERYONE GET HIM!!"

Come on people, it's an  a r t i c l e  written by a sports writer.  Yall act like Mike Slive is sending Bielema a letter ordering him to not move DK.  Yeeezus.

lololololol, now that's funny, Aaron!

Never realized any maiming by mob mentality here before, but it's not uncommon on message boards in general. What I thought was typical of Hogville was jut good 'ol fashioned football talk/debates.

That's only what I came for. People kept telling me to post my articles but I really just like to find some people to talk ball with every once in awhile -- as most of the day is dedicated to it.

But I'll make sure to shout out everyone here I know is knowledgeable and just likes to talk ball. So check out "Ball Hawg" on iTunes...

[OneTuskOverTheLine™]

 Will someone please feed the trolls before they run off a real treasure..!?

Man Murph..! You're interaction with us has improved my off-season 1000 fold my man.

[hawg66]

I tried to say my piece and leave this alone, but I can't help myself, I've got more piece to say.

When I first looked at the thread, I read the link and was underwhelmed.  Lots of logical,  and in my opinion, factual problems with what Murph wrote.  More on that later, because in and of itself I could have been mildy amused and moved on.

Whenever someone posts a link to something he's written elsewhere, he has an agenda.  First, every writer wants to be read.  There's nothing more unsettling than to publish something and wonder if anyone noticed.  Bringing those things to a forum like Hawgville virtually assures more readers.  I get that, I've done it myself.  What got me to respond wasn't the article so much as it was the tone of Murph.  He can state all he wants that he wasn't upset, but it was pretty clear there was an expected pattern of response.  Readers were either supposed to agree, or at least think while they disagreed it was well thought out and raised legitimate concerns. In either case, we were supposed to thank Murph and tell him how wonderful he is for allowing us to read his stuff.  Anyone who disagreed and included the above caviat was praised by murph for doing a good job.  Anyone who simply thought his conclusions were wrong and said so without the butt kiss were accused of having not read the article.  It was that tone that got me responding.

Now, Murph, as to the article itself.  The first thing I'll address is the upfront disclaimer.  It's not really necessary, it serves no purpose.  We already know it's an opinion piece, telling us it's only your opinion doesn't change how we'll respond to your conclusions.  To site it repeatedly to those who disagree with you is an easy out, one most of us won't accept.

The main problem I had though, was your quote of Bielema, where he said that he thought it would help Kirklands' prospects with the NFL.  You focused on that, even though, as several who disagreed with you pointed out, at the same time he was saying that DK is the best they have at pass pro.  I never found a single response from you where you addressed that part of the quote.  Your conclusion that he was doing it as a program move is also flawed, if you don't believe DK is a first round LT.  If the move fails, Bielema took a first round RG and made him a second round LT, hardly a recruiting bonanza.  The program building part only works if the move works. 

Also, at the time of the move, he said that Skipper was never going to be a LT in the NFL, and the move would also help his NFL chances.  You ignored that, didn't even mention it, saying that you always wanted Skipper at RT and that it was a great move.  Basically you were arguing out of both sides of your mouth.  Picking and choosing portions of Bielema's quotes to make your argument.

Then you went into how you had dreams that gave you late night shivers when imagining Kirkland and Skipper on the same side.  Now, at least to me, your secondary agenda was clear.  You were twisting and choosing quotes to prove your personal preference.  Even the gif's you included confused me, especially the second one, where Kirkland got his hands on Floyd and it was all over.  The first one, yes, he looked bad.  If that's what we have to look forward to with Kirkland at LT, we've got problems.  I'll believe if that was the norm, Bielema would never make the move, period.  The other gifs were basically about what a great RG Kirkland is/was, something none of us would dispute.

I could have left it at that,  chuckling to myself, if the issues with posters who disagreed hadn't come up.  I do give you kudos for sticking around and posting.  My advice, which I'm sure to you is nothing, is that you closely peruse Mike Irwins' posts here.   He ignores the personal stuff, whether it's praise or attack.  He says his piece and moves on. 

And now I've said mine, and I'll move on.

[SECisKing]

Like I've stated it's time to move on from this.

I received 1 hour on-air with Mike Irwin, Wess Moore and Michael Smith on 93.3 The Jock to discuss this article -- when I co-hosted the show on Wednesday. I've had time on "Ball Hawg Podcast" to discuss this article. We've gone through pages and pages of this article on here.

Talked to readers through e-mail, Twitter and on Saturday Down South.



Time to move on...

[ricepig]

hawg66, it's Skipper, other than that, nice opinion of his opinion. Did I say that right?

[MuskogeeHogFan]

MHF, thank you brotha. I agree with a lot of what you stated, however, I do believe Kirkland receive a bit of help on that inside move with the running back being outside. First of all, you can pretty much only take an inside move when the back is aligned like that because your ribs will be lit up with that chip block -- believe me; I know.

And the LG also anchored on that play providing him with an extra arm for the edge-rusher to have to go through. And as I stated, he was beat on that initial inside move and even got shoved aside with like one arm by a much thinner player.

Mike Irwin and I agreed today while discussing this article that this move was probably a program-building move opposed to an on-field move. Especially considering Bielema has more success with interior linemen being first-round picks. But only LTs usually end up in the top 10. The minute he lands that top 10 pick the shine will be clearly on the program just like it was at Wisconsin.

But it's all good. Always great to talk ball with 99.9% of Hogville. Especially you, MHF.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree Murph, on that second clip you provided. I'll grant you that the alignment of the RB might have influenced the DE's initial inside path, but look carefully and you see that Kirkland adjusted, cutting him off. And Kirkland didn't have the help of the OG on that side because the OG had his hands full with the DT, who eventually beat him and got a hurry on the QB. After Kirkland cut off the inside rush of the DE, the DE did make a nice move back to the outside but again if you look carefully, Kirkland adjusted and had him off balance, never allowing him near the QB.

I think that Kirkland will do just fine at LT and if for some reason he doesn't pass Pittman's "muster" during the Spring at that position, we will probably see Skipper back at LT, but I don't think that is going to happen. In any case, there is a lot of evaluation going on right now and I am sure Pittman would like to have his O-Line set by the end of Spring and not have to still be looking for answers in August.

Frankly, I worry more about the lack of experienced depth overall to back up the starters than anything else. As I said before, I think that there is a lot of talent there, just not a lot of experienced talent.

Is it August yet?

[Grizzlyfan]

I see some circular logic in SECisKing's argument to an extent.

We say that the LT is the most important line position because he is protecting the QB's blindside from the guy who is usually the defenses best rusher.  But a freshman can play the position because most SEC teams are run heavy and therefore the freshman LT can do OK with run blocking.  But a freshman could be vulnerable to a good pass rusher in passing situations. 

[SECisKing]

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree Murph, on that second clip you provided. I'll grant you that the alignment of the RB might have influenced the DE's initial inside path, but look carefully and you see that Kirkland adjusted, cutting him off. And Kirkland didn't have the help of the OG on that side because the OG had his hands full with the DT, who eventually beat him and got a hurry on the QB. After Kirkland cut off the inside rush of the DE, the DE did make a nice move back to the outside but again if you look carefully, Kirkland adjusted and had him off balance, never allowing him near the QB.

I think that Kirkland will do just fine at LT and if for some reason he doesn't pass Pittman's "muster" during the Spring at that position, we will probably see Skipper back at LT, but I don't think that is going to happen. In any case, there is a lot of evaluation going on right now and I am sure Pittman would like to have his O-Line set by the end of Spring and not have to still be looking for answers in August.

Frankly, I worry more about the lack of experienced depth overall to back up the starters than anything else. As I said before, I think that there is a lot of talent there, just not a lot of experienced talent.

Is it August yet?

That's the beauty of football, MHF. You can see 10 different things through two sets of eyes...It's all good, brotha.

I'm not really concerned about experience on the O-line, to be honest. Some of Bielema's best lines at Wisconsin were full of young guys. And regardless of what most may think, he has yet to put together a line in Arkansas that's as talented as a few units he had in Madison -- especially around the time of Scott Tolzien at QB.

The best way to help an inexperienced line is to get it moving forward 70% of the time by running the ball and keeping that pass-rush off balance.

But man I love game time, but I love off season discussions, as well. Ready for this spring game to see some younger guys in uniform, bro.

[hawginbigd1]

Well this escalated! Moral of the story.... you can disagree with anyone without being a male body part below the waistline! I thought it was a good article, and I disagree with it.

PRJ +1 I thought some of your retorts were excellent!

[SECisKing]

Will someone please feed the trolls before they run off a real treasure..!?

Man Murph..! You're interaction with us has improved my off-season 1000 fold my man.

HAHA! Glad I could be of service. There's no ulterior motive behind me posting my articles here. Remember when I came here when one of my articles was posted, I said that it would be the only time I would do it as I respect the business and don't want to promote my stuff like that.

But I had so many people ask for me to post the articles here and chop it up with you guys so I reluctantly obliged. I was fine with just chopping it up with most of you guys about anything Hog related.

But now it seems like some, well, really just one person, are saying I have to come here to post my stuff for some attention or something. And I really don't like that -- especially considering SDS has some of the best distribution in the industry and has a huge social media following. Not to mention I've received the benefit of doing radio spots on most of the major shows in Arkansas. (With a strong presence on 93.3)

I found out about this board when someone posted a link to one of my articles during the season. (We have a part of the site where we can see content distribution.) So truly do know that I'm just here to talk ball with cats like you, 1 Tusk.

But I told myself the minute my presence causes a stir it's time for me to not be here -- as I was told repeatedly to not be on message boards by those who keep the bills paid. So.....

[hawg66]

hawg66, it's Skipper, other than that, nice opinion of his opinion. Did I say that right?

LOL, that big guy.

[hawg66]

But now it seems like some, well, really just one person, are saying I have to come here to post my stuff for some attention or something. And I really don't like that -- especially considering SDS has some of the best distribution in the industry and has a huge social media following. Not to mention I've received the benefit of doing radio spots on most of the major shows in Arkansas. (With a strong presence on 93.3)

SECisKing, my apologies if I got your motive wrong.  I do think it's ironic that you got in two plugs in a denial about plugging your stuff.

[Razordiddy]

SECisKing, my apologies if I got your motive wrong.  I do think it's ironic that you got in two plugs in a denial about plugging your stuff.

You noticed that too?

[tophawg19]

dude you got 5 pages of conversation going . what more can you ask for . the topic was well covered on both sides . at this time of year that's all we can hope for . you made an interesting post and folks made good counters . now we wait to watch it play out . keep posting it brings something to the board . unlike Robert Shields who just repeats whats already on the board

[hawg66]

dude you got 5 pages of conversation going . what more can you ask for . the topic was well covered on both sides . at this time of year that's all we can hope for . you made an interesting post and folks made good counters . now we wait to watch it play out . keep posting it brings something to the board . unlike Robert Shields who just repeats whats already on the board

Agreed.  A football thread in March?  Good stuff.

[SECisKing]

dude you got 5 pages of conversation going . what more can you ask for . the topic was well covered on both sides . at this time of year that's all we can hope for . you made an interesting post and folks made good counters . now we wait to watch it play out . keep posting it brings something to the board . unlike Robert Shields who just repeats whats already on the board

? Dude, who is Robert Shields?

And man, when you have a couple of people who clearly don't like you, and continue to post to you, then it becomes bigger than the board.

That's when every little thing you say becomes scrutinized like when females get mad at you for something. You get what I'm saying?

I respect Bearly Doug, with whom I have a great rapport, and I love me some Mike Irwin. So I don't want 5 pages of nonsense as that's not my style.

But yeah, we got some great counters from a lot of people on both sides of the coin. It's very representative of what we got from the callers, too.

I think Arkansas' fan base has some really knowledgeable people, but it also has some that says stuff like "You aren't the coach." And it's only so far you can work with that line of thinking, ya know? 

[hawg66]

People don't have to not like you to disagree with you.  That's the tone that got me posting.  Just sayin'. 

[Wildhog]

Funny thread, really.

[ricepig]

Funny thread, really.

Not, really.

[Wildhog]

Not, really.

Yes, it's, really been, quite, entertaining.

[hawg66]

Yes, it's, really been, quite, entertaining.

Thx, I'll be discussing this on Hawgville between 10 and 2, Mondays through Fridays.  consider it a public service. 

[Biggus Piggus]

Thx, I'll be discussing this on Hawgville between 10 and 2, Mondays through Fridays.  consider it a public service. 

You aren't a coach.

[hellwonthaveme]

What we have here is a writer who posted a well written article here on Hogville and because he is covering the Hogs nationally, wants to talk shop with what is considered the prominent message board on Razorback sports....and here is what transpired...

Billy and Earl have always ran the neighborhood...they had those fast bikes and boy they could really jump them bikes high and if you didn't believe them, they roll you every day in the mud until you came around to their way of thinking. They were the smartest, most athletic, and oh my, they loved their hair...and the entire neighborhood followed them....even though they were roughly 2, 3 grades below Billy and Earl...Billy and Earl were admired even though they really weren't all that fast, their bikes couldn't really jump that high, I mean Billy raced BMX for about 6 races, but dead last in 6 straight races tends to make one flame out rather quickly......but Billy told the neighborhood idiots that he won 6 races in a row and they had booted him because he was just so fast....

Come August, right before the start of school....a new family moved on the block, and they had a son named Clovis. Clovis was the real deal, fast bike, jumped that joker high. Could play ball with the best of em...easily the best in the neighborhood. And it drove Billy and Earl crazy. They sent their little heathen groupies to slash his tires....tell him he sucked, yada, yada...

Then Clovis cornered Earl and Billy one day and slapped the shite out of the both of them.....

Ya'll keep fighting for the crown of the smartest worm on the forum...and you that aint so smart, keep following the worms lead......and poor Ol Murf, well you guys run off a guy who will be a huge asset to Hogville. Bravo guys.

You must like ass kissers, midgets and raccoons and jorts and softball....

PRJ

[hawg66]

thanks PRJ, I was afraid I was misunderstood.

[hellwonthaveme]

? Dude, who is Robert Shields?

And man, when you have a couple of people who clearly don't like you, and continue to post to you, then it becomes bigger than the board.

That's when every little thing you say becomes scrutinized like when females get mad at you for something. You get what I'm saying?

I respect Bearly Doug, with whom I have a great rapport, and I love me some Mike Irwin. So I don't want 5 pages of nonsense as that's not my style.

But yeah, we got some great counters from a lot of people on both sides of the coin. It's very representative of what we got from the callers, too.

I think Arkansas' fan base has some really knowledgeable people, but it also has some that says stuff like "You aren't the coach." And it's only so far you can work with that line of thinking, ya know? 

Bro...your inbox is full....

PRJ

[Mike Irwin]

What we have here is a writer who posted a well written article here on Hogville and because he is covering the Hogs nationally, wants to talk shop with what is considered the prominent message board on Razorback sports....and here is what transpired...

Billy and Earl have always ran the neighborhood...they had those fast bikes and boy they could really jump them bikes high and if you didn't believe them, they roll you every day in the mud until you came around to their way of thinking. They were the smartest, most athletic, and oh my, they loved their hair...and the entire neighborhood followed them....even though they were roughly 2, 3 grades below Billy and Earl...Billy and Earl were admired even though they really weren't all that fast, their bikes couldn't really jump that high, I mean Billy raced BMX for about 6 races, but dead last in 6 straight races tends to make one flame out rather quickly......but Billy told the neighborhood idiots that he won 6 races in a row and they had booted him because he was just so fast....

Come August, right before the start of school....a new family moved on the block, and they had a son named Clovis. Clovis was the real deal, fast bike, jumped that joker high. Could play ball with the best of em...easily the best in the neighborhood. And it drove Billy and Earl crazy. They sent their little heathen groupies to slash his tires....tell him he sucked, yada, yada...

Then Clovis cornered Earl and Billy one day and slapped the shite out of the both of them.....

Ya'll keep fighting for the crown of the smartest worm on the forum...and you that aint so smart, keep following the worms lead......and poor Ol Murf, well you guys run off a guy who will be a huge asset to Hogville. Bravo guys.

You must like ass kissers, midgets and raccoons and jorts and softball....

PRJ

That pretty much sums up most Hogville threads. This doesn't just happen on message boards. I can remember having great conversations in high school during that little five minute period between classes. It was gossip time. Who got their butt beat by who last night? What girl was breaking up with what guy? Who was about to flunk out of school? Who just outran who in the guarter mile on the make-shift drag strip west of town.

These discussions could be fun. Especially if an attractive female was involved. But almost without fail some jerk would show up and ruin conversation. In that situation the jerk was usually warned and if he persisted he often got his butt kicked after school.

You can't really do that here. So you post at your own risk. If it's too annoying don't post. Looks like Murph figured that out pretty quickly. It's a shame because quality discussions should drive this place.


Some build with bricks. Others throw bricks. It's always been that way.

[Hawgzinbowlz]

SECisKing,
LOL, as PRJ posted, your PM box is full. When you empty, I'd like to send one.
Keep it between the ditches.

[hellwonthaveme]

That pretty much sums up most Hogville threads. This doesn't just happen on message boards. I can remember having great conversations in high school during that little five minute period between classes. It was gossip time. Who got their butt beat by who last night? What girl was breaking up with what guy? Who was about to flunk out of school? Who just outran who in the guarter mile on the make-shift drag strip west of town.

These discussions could be fun. Especially if an attractive female was involved. But almost without fail some jerk would show up and ruin conversation. In that situation the jerk was usually warned and if he persisted he often got his butt kicked after school.

You can't really do that here. So you post at your own risk. If it's too annoying don't post. Looks like Murph figured that out pretty quickly. It's a shame because quality discussions should drive this place.


Some build with bricks. Others throw bricks. It's always been that way.

Well....in threads that are started when analysis is being given, doesn't matter if it is Murf or you Mike, I believe those threads should be void of trolls or flamethrowers etc. It is actual conversation about the in's and out's of the game of football and shouldn't be cluttered with posters who just want to say gotcha.

As I said before, I actually believe Kirkland will be a star at LT. But I don't know that for sure, Murf could be 100% right. But he brings actual real analysis to the board and I believe he would be a tremendous asset to Hogville, much as you are Mike. You and I have disagreed on some things but I never lost respect for you or the job you do or for what you bring to the community of Hogville. What jumpball posters did to you was uncalled for.

I feel we should embrace writers such as yourself, Murf and others instead of posting things such as Horrible analysis, Hack job and other derogatory things.

Makes no sense.

PRJ

[PorkSoda]

I feel we should embrace writers such as yourself, Murf and others instead of posting things such as Horrible analysis, Hack job and other derogatory things.

Makes no sense.

PRJ

yeah, but you aren't 12 years old and think you know everything and that all adults are stupid.

[hellwonthaveme]

yeah, but you aren't 12 years old and think you know everything and that all adults are stupid.

Very true.....

PRJ

[Mike Irwin]

Well....in threads that are started when analysis is being given, doesn't matter if it is Murf or you Mike, I believe those threads should be void of trolls or flamethrowers etc. It is actual conversation about the in's and out's of the game of football and shouldn't be cluttered with posters who just want to say gotcha.

As I said before, I actually believe Kirkland will be a star at LT. But I don't know that for sure, Murf could be 100% right. But he brings actual real analysis to the board and I believe he would be a tremendous asset to Hogville, much as you are Mike. You and I have disagreed on some things but I never lost respect for you or the job you do or for what you bring to the community of Hogville. What jumpball posters did to you was uncalled for.

I feel we should embrace writers such as yourself, Murf and others instead of posting things such as Horrible analysis, Hack job and other derogatory things.

Makes no sense.

PRJ

When we had this discussion on the radio I told Murph that it's quite possible  Kirkland was simply unprepared for getting thrown out to the left tackle position against Georgia and if he does indeed have issues with technique it's likely that Bielema believes Pittman can work him through those issues this spring. We managed to have a discussion about it without insults being thrown.

I totally agree with his theory that Bielema wants Kirkland drafted as high as possible and he has a better chance of going higher if he's coming off a solid season at left tackle.

Anyway these type discussions are always fun. Much better than, Mike, can Rafe Peavey beat out Brandon Allen this spring?

[tophawg19]

I LIKE murph but i tend to agree with the coaches assessment of Kirkland .  They say it's his natural fit . Murph's assessment was based on a very small sample VS the coaches have had several years exposure to his play. . Hopefully Murph stays as he brings some good things to the board . But when you bring an analysis of a player , expect to be challenged by the guys who played the position too, . There are some very knowlegeable people here who have played so it makes for great conversation. Murph needs to understand that there are some guys who will disagree with his opinion and can back up their points . if you don't have thick skin and the ability to accept other opinions then hogville isn't the place for you . Also getting upset because most fans trust the coaches judgement didn't help . Idon't base my liking for Murph on this article though but on his overall work .

[SECisKing]

When we had this discussion on the radio I told Murph that it's quite possible  Kirkland was simply unprepared for getting thrown out to the left tackle position against Georgia and if he does indeed have issues with technique it's likely that Bielema believes Pittman can work him through those issues this spring. We managed to have a discussion about it without insults being thrown.

I totally agree with his theory that Bielema wants Kirkland drafted as high as possible and he has a better chance of going higher if he's coming off a solid season at left tackle.

Anyway these type discussions are always fun. Much better than, Mike, can Rafe Peavey beat out Brandon Allen this spring?

This is what I was trying to express. I was able to host the show and really hammer this article with one of the biggest (and most knowledgeable) names in Arkansas sports, Mike Irwin, and a former player in Michael Smith -- and not be subjected to insults by some guy who seems more concerned with trying to show me up -- as he claims to be writer -- than discuss the article and really get into the meat of it.

When I asked if a couple people actually read the article, it was in response to someone coming in and saying something different than what was in the article, and nothing else.

I expressed that Kirkland could eventually be a great LT but was a potential top-10 pick at guard as presently constructed. Some came in here and would say: "Why would you say he can't be a great LT!" <---- To me that lends itself to me believe you haven't really read the piece and just wanted to argue.

And when someone jumps in a thread and says stuff like "You aren't the coach!," or, "Why should we trust you over Sam Pittman?", there's no reasoning with someone like that.

It's not that I'm trying to influence anyone's decision, this is my opinion and mine alone -- as I'm the one who sat down and wrote it.

It's easy to discuss topics with differing opinions when you don't have a personal vendetta, imo.

How do you deal with that, Mike? Your career has been awesome, how do you deal with some looking to knock you down a few pegs to make themselves feel better?

[tophawg19]

When we had this discussion on the radio I told Murph that it's quite possible  Kirkland was simply unprepared for getting thrown out to the left tackle position against Georgia and if he does indeed have issues with technique it's likely that Bielema believes Pittman can work him through those issues this spring. We managed to have a discussion about it without insults being thrown.

I totally agree with his theory that Bielema wants Kirkland drafted as high as possible and he has a better chance of going higher if he's coming off a solid season at left tackle.

Anyway these type discussions are always fun. Much better than, Mike, can Rafe Peavey beat out Brandon Allen this spring?

I agree , it was a different type conversation and i like the heated interest the topic brought . This is a passionate fan base and to make any kind of statement about a player will bring strong response on both sides . Great to see a serious conversation on football in march

[SECisKing]

I LIKE murph but i tend to agree with the coaches assessment of Kirkland .  They say it's his natural fit . Murph's assessment was based on a very small sample VS the coaches have had several years exposure to his play. . Hopefully Murph stays as he brings some good things to the board . But when you bring an analysis of a player , expect to be challenged by the guys who played the position too, . There are some very knowlegeable people here who have played so it makes for great conversation. Murph needs to understand that there are some guys who will disagree with his opinion and can back up their points . if you don't have thick skin and the ability to accept other opinions then hogville isn't the place for you . Also getting upset because most fans trust the coaches judgement didn't help . Idon't base my liking for Murph on this article though but on his overall work .

This is what I mean. Who came out and disagreed that I had any type of beef with? The ones that may have seemed like that came with retorts like: "Horrible, Horrible analysis!" or "Shhh Murf won't listen to anything that's not evident." or "You aren't the coach, I trust the coach." or something to the sort.

Or they came in and lobbied stuff that I didn't even say.

Not one person who came in and disagreed, and did it like a civilized human being, I had any problem with. Go look through the thread and see how many times I said: "I can see your point or I definitely hear that."

And I'm pretty sure there are people here who've played, but what does that have to do with anything?

I played ball, jut got finished playing some serious semi-pro ball (deep south league) against a ton of former college players with some serious coaches that have been in the pro and college ranks. But I will talk football with people who haven't played a down of ball -- because I love talking ball.

I think this whole let's challenge someone thing -- because we have knowledge, too -- takes away from having a great discussion on football.

But I must stress, it's only a few people who did that here, the majority of the posters were able to agree or disagree and it not go beyond that.


Edit: And why doesn't everyone agree with the coach when it comes to Brandon Allen being the starting QB? You know how many Tweets and emails I've received about Ty Storey should be the starter -- and stuff like that?

It's ok to have a differing opinion than a coach, name one coach who has gotten every decision right, personnel, schematically or in-game situations; it's only opinions.

[Mike Irwin]

How do you deal with that, Mike? Your career has been awesome, how do you deal with some looking to knock you down a few pegs to make themselves feel better?

First of all I don't post much for that reason. Some people act like if I disagree with them that I'm putting some sort of an official seal of disapproval on them. So they get defensive and pop off. At that point I have to back off because I have a job and that job is not to insult somebody simply because they have insulted me.

Trust me Twitter is much worse than Hogville. There are insane people out there lurking in Twitterland. That's what makes Ashley Judd's thread to sue them so silly. If you're on Twitter as much as she is you've got to know what's going to happen when you start hurling insults.

I never read my Twitter feedback messages and I don't follow people who aren't going to provide me with information I can use. I know what's out there.

[hellwonthaveme]

I agree , it was a different type conversation and i like the heated interest the topic brought . This is a passionate fan base and to make any kind of statement about a player will bring strong response on both sides . Great to see a serious conversation on football in march

Yeah but TopHawg I think the problem in this thread...and lets be honest...in a lot of threads, you have one or two who, out of jealousy for some reason or another, get their feelings hurt when someone comes in with a credible and well written take on a subject, it never fails that some jump in and start taking whacks at people, claiming they were writers or are writers and that their opinion is way more correct than the man who I know is a writer, whose work, Well, I can actually look it up and I can see he gets paid for his opinion.

But this board has many wanna be, ghostly Hunter S. Thompson's. And they end up sucking the life out of a thread. You know it, I know it, Irwin knows it....

But time after time, attack, attack, I am a writer, You aren't a coach, you're a hack.....

To me...and to other well reasoned folks...it is one thing....JEALOUSY,

PRJ

[hellwonthaveme]

LOL, that big guy.

I am still trying to locate the work you have schilled here on Hogville...

PRJ

[Mike Irwin]

Yeah but TopHawg I think the problem in this thread...and lets be honest...in a lot of threads, you have one or two who, out of jealousy for some reason or another, get their feelings hurt when someone comes in with a credible and well written take on a subject, it never fails that some jump in and start taking whacks at people, claiming they were writers or are writers and that their opinion is way more correct than the man who I know is a writer, whose work, Well, I can actually look it up and I can see he gets paid for his opinion.

But this board has many wanna be, ghostly Hunter S. Thompson's. And they end up sucking the life out of a thread. You know it, I know it, Irwin knows it....

But time after time, attack, attack, I am a writer, You aren't a coach, you're a hack.....

To me...and to other well reasoned folks...it is one thing....JEALOUSY,

PRJ

From personal observation there are people posting who are here to win arguments. Most of the time, after a series of exchanges, they will self declare themselves the winner and move on.

Others, with more energy, will never allow someone else to have the last word in an argument. They will keep at it for days if necessary.

It's also pretty clear that some post here as a form of therapy. Somebody gives them crap during the day, they come here to give it back. It's free and there's no accountability. It's not like their boss is going to fire them. Their boss has no idea who they are on this board.

We're probably not talking about more than 15% of the people here and maybe less. But they mess up a lot of discussions.

[SECisKing]

First of all I don't post much for that reason. Some people act like if I disagree with them that I'm putting some sort of an official seal of disapproval on them. So they get defensive and pop off. At that point I have to back off because I have a job and that job is not to insult somebody simply because they have insulted me.

Trust me Twitter is much worse than Hogville. There are insane people out there lurking in Twitterland. That's what makes Ashley Judd's thread to sue them so silly. If you're on Twitter as much as she is you've got to know what's going to happen when you start hurling insults.

I never read my Twitter feedback messages and I don't follow people who aren't going to provide me with information I can use. I know what's out there.

Sage advice from one of my idols -- with whom I've gotten to rub shoulders with in our business.

The thing is, I really like to talk to a great deal of the people on Hogville. But you said the thing about the job not being to insult people back who insult you -- and that's the drawback.

Some of these people know that we are under contract and have a TON more to lose than them, that's why they would try to draw us in to a fight. And I've noticed that it's usually someone who says they are a writer, which really befuddles me.

I know how hard this business is, so I know not to try to go there with someone else in the business. And most observe that unwritten rule, too.

Most of the people that are just fans have great discussions. The ones lobbying insults for no reason must feel they aren't maximizing their own potential and want to lash out, like you stated.   

That's why I love to talking to you, Mike. You give me that perspective!

[Oklahawg]

I will say this - if every HV thread was curated as professionally as this one by the OP then HV would be even better than it is.

It is appreciated.

[hellwonthaveme]

I will say this - if every HV thread was curated as professionally as this one by the OP then HV would be even better than it is.

It is appreciated.

Amen Okla, Amen.

PRJ

[SECisKing]

This is the type of exchange that makes you know it goes beyond the topic.

Well, I'll just use the old, where are you coaching linemen on you, lol. I trust the guys with 30+ years of experience, they do this for a living. And yes, they make mistakes, but they see them every day in practice.

-- RicePig

Here's my reply:

lol if I point out something negative, then it's "where are you coaching linemen?" But when I did the most complete run game is Arkansas article, nobody asked why I wasn't the RB coach...lol smh.

Now could this be anymore in jest? I believed he was trying to make a joke and I tried to joke with him. But check out his response:

We get it, you are a writer, smh....

-- RicePig

WTH?!?! That caught me off-guard as it didn't even make sense as a response. Please tell me what I said to illicit a response like that? I'm still confused as to what I did haha.

Here's another one from another poster:

I notice that these types of writers are filling space without sizing up what they are really saying.

-- onebadrubi

Huh? "These types of writers." What's that supposed to mean? Where I'm from that's a personal shot at my career -- without knowing anything about me. The funny thing is, OneBadRubi is generally a cool fella.

Another:

True, I mean, if you're going to accept all the accolades, then be prepared to accept the criticism. If we wanted to read some negative article about our team, we'd just click on any link from SDS......

-- RicePig

First of all, why use the term "WE?" Especially when most of the posts that preceded this one were of the positive variety (outside of his, of course). Can you really speak for the entire community of Hogville? And why the diss to Saturday Down South? And what about my 20 other articles praising my favorite Coach, Bret Bielema, and the other aspects of his program?

Now let's show some other ppl who disagreed but kept it kosher:

Don't let these guys get to you fo sho...  While I think CBB and Pittman know what they are doing, better than anyone on here, I respect and appreciate what you bring here.  You handle the Hogville negativity like a champ.

-- Pork Twain

Clearly thinks I'm wrong, but is also clearly cool as a ceiling fan!

Ditto. I really enjoy your well written articles and even though I don't always agree with your opinion don't stop bringing it.

For what it's worth I think DK probably has a higher ceiling at guard than LT too...but he may still be our best option at LT this year.

-- HawgTide

Doesn't always agree with my opinion, and thinks DK is the best option at LT.

Here's the straw that stirred the drink:

Horrible. The comparison was made when Kirkland was ask to play out of position. Time wise, if he had red shirted he would have barely been a red shirt
freshman being ask to play the most demanding position on the line. The writer was grasping for something to write. If Kirkland does not grasp the position better this year then talk about it. I think he is better than Skipper. If not who would the writer suggest we play at LT?
On the first Example Kirkland was in a cross block. He engaged his man and forced him wide. If Allen had given the ball to Collins there was a hole there a mile wide. As it was Allen held the ball too long and missed a wide open receiver for a ten yard gain.
On the Example of Looking for someone to hit. He leading the ball carrier. What do you want him to do?  Horrible Analysis.

-- PiggFoot

Horrible analysis? Seeing as though I could point to a ton of people who agreed, some in the media, and a ton who disagreed, let's me know that "Horrible, Horrible Analysis was meant to be inflammatory."

And when I actually answered the question he posed in his "Horrible Analysis" post -- it gave someone in this thread license to ill.

Yep horrible analysis. I suck. Don't know why anyone would ever listen to anything I have to say. How could I have missed this elusive "cross block."

Man you're the epitome of what I don't like. You ask a question like "Who would the writer suggest play LT?"

When I said this in the actual article: "Left tackle is a young man's position so it's not unusual to see freshmen or sophomores manning the position for championship contenders; the Hogs have a few prospects in Brian Wallace, Frank Ragnow and Jalen Merrick who appear to possess the prerequisite athleticism for the position." -- Murf B.

Differing opinions are awesome, it brings about discussion and a chance to analyze. However, trying to flame me to feel better about yourself is just silly for an adult. There's a ton of ppl who agree with my assessment, and if you listened to 93.3 the jock yesterday when I co-hosted Game On there were other media figures in the know who completely agreed and some who didn't.

But we all kept it professional as it's just an opinion; let's talk ball and not try to be heroes from opinions.

Now that I've gone back over this thread it was literally like three people who made this seems a lot worse than it was. It's like that few bad apples theory...But I have to learn how to take criticism? As if I just started my career a couple of weeks ago lol. I love differing opinions, the world would be boring if we were all the same. My mom used always tell me to go join the debate team because I used to love to debate stuff when I was younger.

I think the narrative should be: post how you would if that person was standing right in your face...