2008/2009 St. Louis Cardinals Offseason News

[dhornjr1]

I'm good with that.  He did a good job as the back-up this year.  Let's hope that we can sign some big name free agents with the extra money we have freed up this year.

No offense, 'Trop, but hold out both of your hands, hope as hard as you can into one hand, then take a big dump in the other and see which one fills up first.

Mozeliak has already stated that they will not be a player for any big name free agents. Ownership will not allow it.

[A-Town Hog Fan]

A-Holes.

[dhornjr1]

As a 33 year fan of the Cardinals I agree to a point in that the team does not need to put all or most of their money toward big name free agents. The Cardinals ought to be able to take that extra money and buy several good quality players instead of 1 or 2 players that may or may not be worth the money. Players like FRod and CC Sabathia are among the few that can command that kind of money but in all my years of being a Cardinals fan when the team had their most success, they did not have a team full of free agents but instead a team of players that played hungry. I do think that the team needs to quit signing pitchers from the scrap heap and trying to find ones that have good potential and can be taken to the next level by DDuncan.

I hope that with the new scouting people they have put in place they will do a better job of identifying talent and drafting it.

I know that the MLB draft is much more of a crapshoot that the NBA or NFl draft, but they have done a piss-poor job in drafting over the last few years. Most people say that the draft they had this year was better than those in years past.

[LVW]

another Carpenter setback

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/BCAB64342B022790862574F70079A4C3?OpenDocument

[A-Town Hog Fan]

Penny was not picked up by Dodgers today.  Would you like to have him?

[Hogtropolis™]

I would.

[clifflee4mvp]

I'd like to have AJ Burnett who opted out of his contract, but not sure I want to pay him what he wants.

[dhornjr1]

I'd like to have Penny and Burnett. If they're both healthy, they are #1 starters.

But Penny is gonna have to realize he can't command a big contract. He's gonna have to sign a contract loaded with incentives.

Burnett, I don't know what he wants.

[dhornjr1]

St. Louis Cardinals make offseason plans

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/CBF9FE3A2926622C862574F600236AF8?OpenDocument

[dhornjr1]

Cards' offseason needs

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/B7CEBCA07A6474DF862574F600236BEC?OpenDocument

[dhornjr1]

Pujols Gets Ripped Off ... Again
By Bernie Miklasz

http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/bernies-extra-points/bernies-extra-points/2008/11/pujols-gets-ripped-off-again/

[dhornjr1]

The Cardinals have won more Gold Gloves than any other team in the history of the award

http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/bird-land/bird-land/2008/11/two-aim-to-reclaim-the-st-louis-cardinals-golden-history-of-gloves/

[clifflee4mvp]

I'd like to have Penny and Burnett. If they're both healthy, they are #1 starters.

But Penny is gonna have to realize he can't command a big contract. He's gonna have to sign a contract loaded with incentives.

Burnett, I don't know what he wants.

turned down 3 years 48 mil from Toronto. Too much dough if you ask me.

[dhornjr1]

St. Louis Cardinals in the hunt for Holliday

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/B7C6D1B5032D47D4862574FA00184F9C?OpenDocument

[dhornjr1]

Cards are willing to deal

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/CCA1BA50923A6225862574F9001A4123?OpenDocument

[dhornjr1]

Sizing up Cards' trade chips, trade targets

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/columnists.nsf/jeffgordon/story/72897256CE520A39862574F9007FA441?OpenDocument

[dhornjr1]

Interesting site

http://www.futureredbirds.net/

[dhornjr1]

Amaury Marti Facts

http://www.futureredbirds.net/amaury-marti-facts/

[dhornjr1]

Mozeliak says talks on Holliday are dead

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/C3ADED8E4103B66A862574FD000C8F58?OpenDocument

[clifflee4mvp]

Holliday ended up with the A's from what I hear. Would like to have had him but not for what they were supposedly asking

[jst01]

I'm fine with no Holliday.  I'm also happy with the current Cards outfield.

Lud, Ank & Skip.  All good arms, cover ground well and they all can hit. 

Cards need pitching! bullpen & a starter. 

[LVW]

Cards add pop to middle infield:

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2008/dec/03/padres-cardinals-agree-deal-will-send-greene-st-lo/?padres

Getting out of Petco should really benefit him:

career .225/.285/.369 at Petco
career .270/.318/.484 on road

[Hogtropolis™]

Cards add pop to middle infield:

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2008/dec/03/padres-cardinals-agree-deal-will-send-greene-st-lo/?padres

Getting out of Petco should really benefit him:

career .225/.285/.369 at Petco
career .270/.318/.484 on road

I'm not terribly excited about that, but it is very intriguing.  I always thought his average was a little low.  I'll be interested to see how he does in STL.

[TuckFexas]

I'm not terribly excited about that, but it is very intriguing.  I always thought his average was a little low.  I'll be interested to see how he does in STL.

Quit reading my thoughts!

[jst01]

Cards add pop to middle infield:

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2008/dec/03/padres-cardinals-agree-deal-will-send-greene-st-lo/?padres

Getting out of Petco should really benefit him:

career .225/.285/.369 at Petco
career .270/.318/.484 on road

He has more power potential than anyone at short since Edgar Rent. And Edgar was very streaky.  I love Greenes hustle.  Padres have sucked for years and Greene gets a chance to play in a very dangerous lineup. I think its a great move for what we are giving up. 

[TuckFexas]

Who did we give up?

[clifflee4mvp]

He has more power potential than anyone at short since Edgar Rent. And Edgar was very streaky.  I love Greenes hustle.  Padres have sucked for years and Greene gets a chance to play in a very dangerous lineup. I think its a great move for what we are giving up. 

padres have won their division several times in the last couple of years (I know it's a weak division)

[jst01]

(I know it's a weak division)

you answered it for me.  they have also been beat in the first round by the Cardinals a few of those times. They aren't willing to spend money and keep the good players there. I bet they trade Adrian Gonzalez in the next year or two.

[jst01]

Who did we give up?

it said 2 relievers on the mlb.com article i read. It didnt specify which two but I'm willing to bet it will be minor leaguers.  maybe Jess Todd??

[Hogtropolis™]

it said 2 relievers on the mlb.com article i read. It didnt specify which two but I'm willing to bet it will be minor leaguers.  maybe Jess Todd??

The STL Post-Dispatch said this...

Greene will cost the Cardinals organization two pitchers, neither of whom was on the major-league roster at the end of last season. The identity of the pitchers is not yet known.

I hope it wasn't Jess Todd though.

[Hogtropolis™]

I also saw these two things when looking through articles on Greene.

The Cards signed Trever Miller who is a lefty relief man who was with TB last year.  I know virtually nothing about him.

And Renteria signed a two-year deal with the Giants.

[TuckFexas]

I thought Todd might be one of them and was hoping that wasn't who we gave up. His schit is so nasty a fly wouldn't land on it.

[LVW]

The Cards signed Trever Miller who is a lefty relief man who was with TB last year.  I know virtually nothing about him.

he's a LOOGY(lefty one out guy) who pretty much challeneges lefties and works carefully to righties.  He has decent but not outstanding command.

[Hogtropolis™]

Mark Worrell and a player to be named later are the two pitchers we traded to get Greene.

It sure seems like "a player to be named later" sure gets traded a lot.  What's the concept behind a player to be named later.  Can the two teams just not come to terms and if that is the case, how does the deal go through.  I'm not real sure what the concept behind that is.

Does anyone have any insight?

[LVW]

Mark Worrell and a player to be named later are the two pitchers we traded to get Greene.

It sure seems like "a player to be named later" sure gets traded a lot.  What's the concept behind a player to be named later.  Can the two teams just not come to terms and if that is the case, how does the deal go through.  I'm not real sure what the concept behind that is.

Does anyone have any insight?

My understanding is a short list of players to choose from is agreed upon and they have I believe 6 months to agree on the player.  Basically it gives the team receiving the PTBNL more time to evaluate which player best fits their needs.

[LVW]

Mark Worrell and a player to be named later are the two pitchers we traded to get Greene.

It sure seems like "a player to be named later" sure gets traded a lot.  What's the concept behind a player to be named later.  Can the two teams just not come to terms and if that is the case, how does the deal go through.  I'm not real sure what the concept behind that is.

Does anyone have any insight?

My understanding is a short list of players to choose from is agreed upon and they have I believe 6 months to agree on a player.  Basically is gives the team receiving the PTBNL more time to evaluate which player best fits their needs.

[jst01]

My understanding is a short list of players to choose from is agreed upon and they have I believe 6 months to agree on a player.  Basically is gives the team receiving the PTBNL more time to evaluate which player best fits their needs.

You are right. The receiving team may still acquire or trade for more players by then, and having that short list to choose from benefits them. They can go after free agents if need be and dont have to lock down the trade prospects this early. 

[Hogtropolis™]

http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081213&content_id=3716332&vkey=news_stl&fext=.jsp&c_id=stl

The article says we let Miles, Johnson, and Flores go.

We kept Ankiel, Ludwick, Duncan, Thompson, and Wellemeyer.

My opinion on the moves:

Miles - bad choice depending on how much he was asking for, he has been a GREAT utility player

Johnson - good choice considering you have no clue how he will react to shoulder surgery

Flores - good choice wasn't impressed with him this past year

Ankiel - very good choice, he's a fan favorite and still has a huge upside

Ludwick - good choice though I would still like to see him packaged with someone else and dealt for a quality starter because I don't have confidence that he can repeat what he did last year

Duncan - worst choice of them all, I could be completely wrong, but I don't see him being productive ever again in the majors unless he makes some MAJOR strides in eliminating the holes in his swing.

We still have a lot of work to do in the offseason before we can say we will be able to compete this year.

I'm guessing closer and 2B are tops on our list right now with a quality starter being next.

[LVW]

My opinion on the moves:

Miles - bad choice depending on how much he was asking for, he has been a GREAT utility player

His salary went from 1 mil in 2007 to 1.4 mil in 2008 and he was better in 2008 than 200 so I suspect he was wanting in excess of 2 mil. 

The problem with Miles is so much of his offense is tied up in batting average and with that being such a volatile category if he has bad luck on balls in play he becomes an offensive albatross.

Utility guys like Miles(that are better defensively at SS) are readily available for less than 2 mil .

[Hogtropolis™]

His salary went from 1 mil in 2007 to 1.4 mil in 2008 and he was better in 2008 than 200 so I suspect he was wanting in excess of 2 mil. 

The problem with Miles is so much of his offense is tied up in batting average and with that being such a volatile category if he has bad luck on balls in play he becomes an offensive albatross.

Utility guys like Miles(that are better defensively at SS) are readily available for less than 2 mil .

I guess, but I have enjoyed having him over the last couple of years.  He has been a good team player and taken his playing time when given to him and not complained otherwise.

Who else are you talking about that is out there that could fill his role?

[LVW]

I guess, but I have enjoyed having him over the last couple of years.  He has been a good team player and taken his playing time when given to him and not complained otherwise.

Who else are you talking about that is out there that could fill his role?

there's one already in the organization at league minimum- Brendan Ryan.  Jerry Hairston Jr. would cost a little less and he's a better player than Miles.  Just to name 2.  The Phils signed one(Eric Bruntlett) for 800 thou today.


and don't forget they non tendered him last year also then resigned him.

[elvis26]

  i would love to see the cards sign ty wiggington. he was non-tendered by the astros. he is a good utility player!!
                                       sincerely elvis26

[LVW]

i would love to see the cards sign ty wiggington. he was non-tendered by the astros. he is a good utility player!!
                                       sincerely elvis26

won't happen- there are at least 4 teams, the Reds included, that can give him a starting job at 3rd, something they Cards can't do.

[Hogtropolis™]

Aaron Miles signed a two year $4.9 mil deal with the Cubs.

[A-Town Hog Fan]

Current depth chart

SP
Wainwright
Loshe
Wellemeyer
Piniero
Garcia

C
Molina
LaRue

1b
Pujols

2b
Kennedy
Ryan

3b
Glaus
Barden

SS
Greene
Kozma

LF
Ankiel
Barton

CF
Schumaker
Ludwick
Rasmus (When is this kid going to come up?)

RF
Ludwick
Barton

BP
Perez (Closer)
Franklin
McClellan
Perez
Kinney
Thompson
Carpenter (???WTH?)
Motte

Also will have Trevor Miller in BP.
Ankiel, Ludwick, and Wellemeyer are eligible for arbitration.

I think we still might get a starter or a closer and trade one of the outfielders and bring Rasmus up.

Here is the predicted starting lineup as of now

LF Skip Schumaker
  RF Ryan Ludwick
  1B Albert Pujols
  CF Rick Ankiel
  3B Troy Glaus
  C Yadier Molina
  SS Khalil Greene
  2B Adam Kennedy
  SP Chris Carpenter
  SP Adam Wainwright
  SP Kyle Lohse
  SP Todd Wellemeyer
  SP Joel Pineiro
  CL Chris Perez

[dacskc]

LF Skip Schumaker
  RF Ryan Ludwick
  1B Albert Pujols
  CF Rick Ankiel
  3B Troy Glaus
  C Yadier Molina
  SS Khalil Greene
  2B Adam Kennedy ........Gaaaahhhhhh!!!!
  SP Chris Carpenter
  SP Adam Wainwright
  SP Kyle Lohse
  SP Todd Wellemeyer
  SP Joel Pineiro
  CL Chris Perez



Also, if I see the tobacco-chewing fence-post in left ever again, my head may explode. (I will miss Miles, he came through in so many clutch situations the last couple of years.Don't know if Ryan can bring what Miles did)

So ...Trever Miller and Khalil Greene? That's it? With all the payroll supposedly coming off the books, I was really expecting more (yeah, I know). I figure Carp is probably done...although I hope not...anyone know anything on the latest surgery? I was hoping they'd at least try to appear serious about signing another SP...but hey, ownership isn't concerned with us, all the little DeWitts probably got new trust funds for Christmas.

[TuckFexas]

LF Skip Schumaker
  RF Ryan Ludwick
  1B Albert Pujols
  CF Rick Ankiel
  3B Troy Glaus
  C Yadier Molina
  SS Khalil Greene
  2B Adam Kennedy ........Gaaaahhhhhh!!!!
  SP Chris Carpenter
  SP Adam Wainwright
  SP Kyle Lohse
  SP Todd Wellemeyer
  SP Joel Pineiro
  CL Chris Perez



Also, if I see the tobacco-chewing fence-post in left ever again, my head may explode. (I will miss Miles, he came through in so many clutch situations the last couple of years.Don't know if Ryan can bring what Miles did)

So ...Trever Miller and Khalil Greene? That's it? With all the payroll supposedly coming off the books, I was really expecting more (yeah, I know). I figure Carp is probably done...although I hope not...anyone know anything on the latest surgery? I was hoping they'd at least try to appear serious about signing another SP...but hey, ownership isn't concerned with us, all the little DeWitts probably got new trust funds for Christmas.

This here ^

[Jacob "2 Scoops" Johnson]

This here ^

i can not WAIT until kennedy is gone. as of now, i would take a tamed monkey over him. a .230 (correct me if wrong) avg will NOT cut it. he will probably start, but if i was manager (which im not) i would start ryan. man i wish we wouldnt have let miles go.

[FaytownHog]

i wish we would do freakin anything! its so depressing to watch the cardinal organization basically say they could care less about having a better, competitive team this year. even if it didn't make a difference, atleast try. geese. get a big name and a couple of good names. we have the money and need some tweaks to have a chance again. i want to be excited about baseball season again, but they are making it hard on me.

i can not WAIT until kennedy is gone. as of now, i would take a tamed monkey over him. a .230 (correct me if wrong) avg will NOT cut it. he will probably start, but if i was manager (which im not) i would start ryan. man i wish we wouldnt have let miles go.

[Jacob "2 Scoops" Johnson]

i wish we would do freakin anything! its so depressing to watch the cardinal organization basically say they could care less about having a better, competitive team this year. even if it didn't make a difference, atleast try. geese. get a big name and a couple of good names. we have the money and need some tweaks to have a chance again. i want to be excited about baseball season again, but they are making it hard on me.

agreed. there have been so many opprotunites to pick up a big name. Peavey, Sheets, just to name a few pitchers. Fuentes coulda woulda shoula been a card. it just doesnt add up that the only real signing weve had is a average at best ss. ps +1 for the strongbad avatar